The Political View of Abortion

[PoliticalChic]

So last week you found the right to homeschool in the Ninth Amendment, but this week you can't find it,

all because your argument-of-the-week necessitates that the right of privacy cannot be found in the Constitution.

I'm just curious, did you manage to find the right of privacy in the Constitution for gun owners a few weeks ago when the topic was the publication of the names of New Yorkers with gun licenses?

The argument you put forth is that government has a say in every aspect of life.


This is not the case.

If abortion went back to the states, the states would be able to ban early term abortion. Roe v. Wade is the government saying, no, government does not have a say in that aspect of life.

You have it just the opposite.

You try so hard....if only you had ability to go with it.

The right to regulate abortion could only be returned to it's proper domain if Roe was overturned.

 

[PoliticalChic]

By over 2 to 1 Americans agree with Roe v. Wade.

Abortion

But the statistics that I provided were correct...weren't they.

Your statistic says 80% of Americans want abortion legal at least sometimes.

That is exactly what I would like.....the citizenry to have the say.
Beginning to catch on?

 

[NYcarbineer]

The argument you put forth is that government has a say in every aspect of life.


This is not the case.

If abortion went back to the states, the states would be able to ban early term abortion. Roe v. Wade is the government saying, no, government does not have a say in that aspect of life.

You have it just the opposite.

You try so hard....if only you had ability to go with it.

The right to regulate abortion could only be returned to it's proper domain if Roe was overturned.

Let me do that again. If Roe is overturned and abortion goes back to the state, then the STATE would have a say in every aspect of abortion.

That's your position, not mine.

 

[NYcarbineer]

But the statistics that I provided were correct...weren't they.

Your statistic says 80% of Americans want abortion legal at least sometimes.

That is exactly what I would like.....the citizenry to have the say.
Beginning to catch on?

Then why would you want Roe overturned if the citizenry supports it 2 to 1?

 

[Dragonlady]

Roe will not be overturned. That ship has sailed. The Conservative Justices are getting older and are retiring. By the end of Obama's term, there will be a strong, Liberal Majority. If another Democrat succeeds him, it will be a decade or more before the conservatives hold a majority in the Court.

I don't think that the Republican Party had any intention of making good on it's promises to the anti-abortion faction. They gave the concept lip service when they wanted those votes, but federally the Republicans did little to protect the unborn because they, in their heart of hearts, know it is state intrusion into something that is none of it's business, and that telling a women she must carry every fetus to term is the nanny state at its worst.

The proper domain for abortion is nationally. It is completely unconstitutional for one state to outlaw access to women's health care and another to allow it unconditionally. This is just not a government issue at all, nor should it be.

 

[ima]

But the statistics that I provided were correct...weren't they.

Your statistic says 80% of Americans want abortion legal at least sometimes.

That is exactly what I would like.....the citizenry to have the say.
Beginning to catch on?

PolC wants to tell women what to do with their bodies.

It's simple hon, if you're against abortion, don't do it.

 

[PoliticalChic]

If abortion went back to the states, the states would be able to ban early term abortion. Roe v. Wade is the government saying, no, government does not have a say in that aspect of life.

You have it just the opposite.

You try so hard....if only you had ability to go with it.

The right to regulate abortion could only be returned to it's proper domain if Roe was overturned.

Let me do that again. If Roe is overturned and abortion goes back to the state, then the STATE would have a say in every aspect of abortion.

That's your position, not mine.

I think you finally understand.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Your statistic says 80% of Americans want abortion legal at least sometimes.

That is exactly what I would like.....the citizenry to have the say.
Beginning to catch on?

Then why would you want Roe overturned if the citizenry supports it 2 to 1?

I believe in federalism.


Don't you?

 

[JoeB131]

[

Here ya' go, Erroneous,...from post #145:


Current projections show a continued increase in population in the near future (but a steady decline in the population growth rate), with the global population expected to reach between 7.5 and 10.5 billion by 2050.


"About That Overpopulation Problem
Research suggests we may actually face a declining world population in the coming years."
World population may actually start declining, not exploding. - Slate Magazine


"But it turns out the world’s population isn’t growing nearly as fast as it once did. In fact, experts say the rate of population growth will continue to slow and that the total population will eventually — likely within our lifetimes — fall."

Read more: Baby Bust: Is the World's Population Actually Declining? | TIME.com



But worry not....I have no expectation of you learning....'cause then you wouldn't be 'erroneous.'

Once in a while, I think you are a intellect trying to understand.

And other times, I conclude you are some kind of high-functioning retarded person aping discourse.

This is one of those posts that makes me conclude the latter.

Of course, birth rates are declining because people are having abortions and practicing birth control. Today, China announced that a whopping 300 million abortion have been performed in their country since 1971!

The planet is STILL overpopulated. And we are going to hit 10.5 billion by 2050. After that- famines, plagues, droughts--- It ain't gonna be nice. I probably won't live that long but you might...

 

[NYcarbineer]

That is exactly what I would like.....the citizenry to have the say.
Beginning to catch on?

Then why would you want Roe overturned if the citizenry supports it 2 to 1?

I believe in federalism.


Don't you?

I think you're more of an anti-federalist.

The question was, why would want Roe overturned if the citizenry supports it 2 to 1,

right after you've said that you would like the citizenry to have the say?

(Your contradictions are getting closer and closer together. I think you're about to give birth to a whopper)

 

[Toronado3800]

Roe will not be overturned. That ship has sailed. The Conservative Justices are getting older and are retiring. By the end of Obama's term, there will be a strong, Liberal Majority. If another Democrat succeeds him, it will be a decade or more before the conservatives hold a majority in the Court.

I don't think that the Republican Party had any intention of making good on it's promises to the anti-abortion faction. They gave the concept lip service when they wanted those votes, but federally the Republicans did little to protect the unborn because they, in their heart of hearts, know it is state intrusion into something that is none of it's business, and that telling a women she must carry every fetus to term is the nanny state at its worst.

The proper domain for abortion is nationally. It is completely unconstitutional for one state to outlaw access to women's health care and another to allow it unconditionally. This is just not a government issue at all, nor should it be.

I think this bears repeating. In a 40 year period Republicans held the oval office 28 to 12 years between 1968 and 2008. We ended up with a supreme court which seemsintent on Federal Protection of freedom of choice over State level intrusions. Odd bedfellows this debate makes.

Perhaps we can round up Conservatives against the Patriot Act in our next topic. Let small government folks help me regain our freedoms!

 

[Dragonlady]

I find it beyond bizarre that PC is completely bought into a future where mankind is going to cease to breed and become extinct, despite all reasonable evidence to the contrary, but thinks that global warming is a hoax, despite all reasonable evidence to the contrary. I was going to say that finding the logic in her thinking is difficult, but that implies that she is in fact thinking for herself rather than just parenting the latest Constitutional talking points eminating out of the right wing conservative media.

Newt Gingerich has said that he who controls the language of the debate, controls the debate and with the abortion movement this has certainly been true. Originally branded as "Pro-Choice" and "Anti-Abortion", the Anti-Abortion movement got no traction in the years after Roe v. Wade. The Women's Rights Movement campaigned relentlessly with slogans decrying the thousands of injuries and deaths which were the result of botched back-alley abortion, all of which ended overnight the day that decision came down.

In order to make itself more palletablle to the masses, the Anti-Abortion movement re-branded itself "Pro-Life" and set out to convince young women that they weren't ending a pregnancy, they were murdering a baby. The referred to people who are "Pro-Choice" as "pro-abortion", which like so many other Republican catch phrases is technically incorrect and a lie, but God knows that has never deterred them in the past so why start now.

Like all liberals are commies and Marxists, those who are pro-abortion, hate children and want everyone to have an abortion. They sluts and whore who have indiscriminate sex and don't want to deal the the inconvenient consequences, girls with no self esteem who can't even be bothered to take birth control. Like the demonization of people receiving government benefits, girls who have abortions are thoughtless, lazy and selfish and they won't take responsibility for their actions.

This is the Republican mantra regarding abortion which these people repeat in every thread on this board. It's the end of civilization as we know it - the human race is going to depopulate the earth. Well, if they don't do something about global warming first, it's really not going to be a problem.

The latest Republican "control the language of the debate" project is re-branding itself as the party of the Founding Fathers. The true guardians of the Constitutional Republic of your forefathers (cue America the Beautiful), and the only Party capable to keeping America true to the principles upon which it was founded. The shit practically writes itself. Said with all sincerity, cross my heart and hope to die.

And right on cue, PC comes out here and tells us Thomas Jefferson opposed abortion, it's all right here, in the Preamble of the Constitution. PC, not one of God's brighter lights, still hasn't figured out that Newt, Glenn, and the gang over at Fox keep the gullible and the stupid busy on these little make work projects to cover for their total lack of new ideas on how to fix the economy.

Romney's platford was just more Friedman neo-con policies that have failed so utterly, leading to the nearly destruction of the working and middle classes. He offered nothing that Bush didn't do to get the country into the mess in the first place.

The Republican Party has lost its way. It's morally and intellectually bankrupt. When your only criticisms of your opponents are based on out and out lies, it's a pretty strong indicator that your party doesn't have any ideas which would make you want to vote for them. That they mislead you with birther stuff, Obama is a Kenyan, communist, Muslim, is disgusting, but then you parrot it.

Whats that old expression "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". How many times have Newt and the boys screwed you over PC? Reagan was going to end abortion - and that was over 30 years ago. 20 years of Republican Presidents over the past 32 years, and none of them kept their promise to the anti-choice movement to get rid of abortion. You people are like the bride waiting for a groom who never showed up.

Roe v. Wade isn't going anywhere. The Conservatives have lost and now the Republicans are prepared to cut you loose to try to get the rest of the women to vote for them.

So you can shill for these liars and thieves all you want PC, but your movement is toast. Even girls the age of my daughter won't have anything to do with your controlling, mysogynistic, paternalist movement. Our bodies, our choice. You take care of you and yours, *****. Stay the hell outta mine.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Then why would you want Roe overturned if the citizenry supports it 2 to 1?

I believe in federalism.


Don't you?

I think you're more of an anti-federalist.

The question was, why would want Roe overturned if the citizenry supports it 2 to 1,

right after you've said that you would like the citizenry to have the say?

(Your contradictions are getting closer and closer together. I think you're about to give birth to a whopper)

This is as slowly as I can say this:

1.I believe in the Constitution and federalism

2. Not judges nor Justices....the people have the final say.

3. Imaginary 'rights' are just that.

4.I endorse political outcomes, not theological.


and...

5. Principles have no shelf life. Fads do.

 

[Toronado3800]

Then why would you want Roe overturned if the citizenry supports it 2 to 1?

I believe in federalism.


Don't you?

I think you're more of an anti-federalist.

The question was, why would want Roe overturned if the citizenry supports it 2 to 1,

right after you've said that you would like the citizenry to have the say?

(Your contradictions are getting closer and closer together. I think you're about to give birth to a whopper)

Hmmmm.

Just caught this in the reply.

Our government is set to also protect us from the majority. If the majority is in favor of interning the Japanese as a whole it is probably still unconstitutional.

Now that same thing works agains making abortion illegal. Even if the majority of folks in Mississippi want to outlaw abortion it is probably against the Constitution. Or in Oregon if the majority of folks support the right of terminal cancer patients to give up and commit suicide in a reasonable manor, it is probably Constitutional for them to do so.

In my small government in our personal lives opinion anyway.

Practically I wonder how much the majority opinion affects the issue, probably a bit since one party is economically liberal and the other religously and warfarringly liberal. (I made a word)

U know, S&L bailouts, bank bailouts.....both parties are pretty darn economically liberal. Damn Reagan lol.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I find it beyond bizarre that PC is completely bought into a future where mankind is going to cease to breed and become extinct, despite all reasonable evidence to the contrary, but thinks that global warming is a hoax, despite all reasonable evidence to the contrary. I was going to say that finding the logic in her thinking is difficult, but that implies that she is in fact thinking for herself rather than just parenting the latest Constitutional talking points eminating out of the right wing conservative media.

Newt Gingerich has said that he who controls the language of the debate, controls the debate and with the abortion movement this has certainly been true. Originally branded as "Pro-Choice" and "Anti-Abortion", the Anti-Abortion movement got no traction in the years after Roe v. Wade. The Women's Rights Movement campaigned relentlessly with slogans decrying the thousands of injuries and deaths which were the result of botched back-alley abortion, all of which ended overnight the day that decision came down.

In order to make itself more palletablle to the masses, the Anti-Abortion movement re-branded itself "Pro-Life" and set out to convince young women that they weren't ending a pregnancy, they were murdering a baby. The referred to people who are "Pro-Choice" as "pro-abortion", which like so many other Republican catch phrases is technically incorrect and a lie, but God knows that has never deterred them in the past so why start now.

Like all liberals are commies and Marxists, those who are pro-abortion, hate children and want everyone to have an abortion. They sluts and whore who have indiscriminate sex and don't want to deal the the inconvenient consequences, girls with no self esteem who can't even be bothered to take birth control. Like the demonization of people receiving government benefits, girls who have abortions are thoughtless, lazy and selfish and they won't take responsibility for their actions.

This is the Republican mantra regarding abortion which these people repeat in every thread on this board. It's the end of civilization as we know it - the human race is going to depopulate the earth. Well, if they don't do something about global warming first, it's really not going to be a problem.

The latest Republican "control the language of the debate" project is re-branding itself as the party of the Founding Fathers. The true guardians of the Constitutional Republic of your forefathers (cue America the Beautiful), and the only Party capable to keeping America true to the principles upon which it was founded. The shit practically writes itself. Said with all sincerity, cross my heart and hope to die.

And right on cue, PC comes out here and tells us Thomas Jefferson opposed abortion, it's all right here, in the Preamble of the Constitution. PC, not one of God's brighter lights, still hasn't figured out that Newt, Glenn, and the gang over at Fox keep the gullible and the stupid busy on these little make work projects to cover for their total lack of new ideas on how to fix the economy.

Romney's platford was just more Friedman neo-con policies that have failed so utterly, leading to the nearly destruction of the working and middle classes. He offered nothing that Bush didn't do to get the country into the mess in the first place.

The Republican Party has lost its way. It's morally and intellectually bankrupt. When your only criticisms of your opponents are based on out and out lies, it's a pretty strong indicator that your party doesn't have any ideas which would make you want to vote for them. That they mislead you with birther stuff, Obama is a Kenyan, communist, Muslim, is disgusting, but then you parrot it.

Whats that old expression "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". How many times have Newt and the boys screwed you over PC? Reagan was going to end abortion - and that was over 30 years ago. 20 years of Republican Presidents over the past 32 years, and none of them kept their promise to the anti-choice movement to get rid of abortion. You people are like the bride waiting for a groom who never showed up.

Roe v. Wade isn't going anywhere. The Conservatives have lost and now the Republicans are prepared to cut you loose to try to get the rest of the women to vote for them.

So you can shill for these liars and thieves all you want PC, but your movement is toast. Even girls the age of my daughter won't have anything to do with your controlling, mysogynistic, paternalist movement. Our bodies, our choice. You take care of you and yours, *****. Stay the hell outta mine.

1. "Our bodies, our choice. You take care of you and yours, *****. Stay the hell outta mine."
Trust me....the one thing we agree on....is staying out of your body.
In fact the multiple marks of ten-foot poles is an indication that most folks concur.




2. Now, let's prove what a moron you are in terms of biological knowledge.

The baby is not your body, ....what parts of 'your body' have different DNA? Different blood type? Fingerprints? And different sex half the time?

No, the baby is an entirely different entity, one you claim the right to put to death at a whim, a caprice.

That makes you a beast.



3. And, to be consistent, stop applying the nick-name that your acquaintances have for you, to me.

Learn how to correctly address your betters.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I believe in federalism.


Don't you?

I think you're more of an anti-federalist.

The question was, why would want Roe overturned if the citizenry supports it 2 to 1,

right after you've said that you would like the citizenry to have the say?

(Your contradictions are getting closer and closer together. I think you're about to give birth to a whopper)

Hmmmm.

Just caught this in the reply.

Our government is set to also protect us from the majority. If the majority is in favor of interning the Japanese as a whole it is probably still unconstitutional.

Now that same thing works agains making abortion illegal. Even if the majority of folks in Mississippi want to outlaw abortion it is probably against the Constitution. Or in Oregon if the majority of folks support the right of terminal cancer patients to give up and commit suicide in a reasonable manor, it is probably Constitutional for them to do so.

In my small government in our personal lives opinion anyway.

Practically I wonder how much the majority opinion affects the issue, probably a bit since one party is economically liberal and the other religously and warfarringly liberal. (I made a word)

U know, S&L bailouts, bank bailouts.....both parties are pretty darn economically liberal. Damn Reagan lol.

1. " If the majority is in favor of interning the Japanese..."
Democrat endeavor.

2. "Now that same thing works agains (sic) making abortion illegal."
I believe that Americans won't all hold the same view, but, unlike a Liberal, I don't agree that we should deny others their perspective.

Some states support abortion...others may vote to deny it.
I'm down with that.
Why aren't you?
This is a political query, not a theological one.


3. "The question was, why would want Roe overturned..."
Because the Constitution doesn't give venue to the federal government.
Read it, and you'll see that I am correct.



4. "Or in Oregon if the majority of folks support blah blah blah...."
So...you have some other subject in mind, or did my response cover it?

 

[ima]

Pompous ass ALERT!!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[NYcarbineer]

I think you're more of an anti-federalist.

The question was, why would want Roe overturned if the citizenry supports it 2 to 1,

right after you've said that you would like the citizenry to have the say?

(Your contradictions are getting closer and closer together. I think you're about to give birth to a whopper)

Hmmmm.

Just caught this in the reply.

Our government is set to also protect us from the majority. If the majority is in favor of interning the Japanese as a whole it is probably still unconstitutional.

Now that same thing works agains making abortion illegal. Even if the majority of folks in Mississippi want to outlaw abortion it is probably against the Constitution. Or in Oregon if the majority of folks support the right of terminal cancer patients to give up and commit suicide in a reasonable manor, it is probably Constitutional for them to do so.

In my small government in our personal lives opinion anyway.

Practically I wonder how much the majority opinion affects the issue, probably a bit since one party is economically liberal and the other religously and warfarringly liberal. (I made a word)

U know, S&L bailouts, bank bailouts.....both parties are pretty darn economically liberal. Damn Reagan lol.

1. " If the majority is in favor of interning the Japanese..."
Democrat endeavor.

2. "Now that same thing works agains (sic) making abortion illegal."
I believe that Americans won't all hold the same view, but, unlike a Liberal, I don't agree that we should deny others their perspective.
Some states support abortion...others may vote to deny it.
I'm down with that.
Why aren't you?
This is a political query, not a theological one.


3. "The question was, why would want Roe overturned..."
Because the Constitution doesn't give venue to the federal government.
Read it, and you'll see that I am correct.



4. "Or in Oregon if the majority of folks support blah blah blah...."
So...you have some other subject in mind, or did my response cover it?

If you want states to decide abortion rights, why don't you want states to decide gun rights?

 

[NYcarbineer]

I believe in federalism.


Don't you?

I think you're more of an anti-federalist.

The question was, why would want Roe overturned if the citizenry supports it 2 to 1,

right after you've said that you would like the citizenry to have the say?

(Your contradictions are getting closer and closer together. I think you're about to give birth to a whopper)

This is as slowly as I can say this:

1.I believe in the Constitution and federalism

Then you believe in judicial review.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I think you're more of an anti-federalist.

The question was, why would want Roe overturned if the citizenry supports it 2 to 1,

right after you've said that you would like the citizenry to have the say?

(Your contradictions are getting closer and closer together. I think you're about to give birth to a whopper)

This is as slowly as I can say this:

1.I believe in the Constitution and federalism

Then you believe in judicial review.

Try to avoid discussion until you understand the concepts involved, e.g., judicial review.