The Only Way To Deal With A Situation Like Orlando

[OKTexas]

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

Not everyone instinctively does that.....military trained probably would tho.

Reading comprehension not real good this morning, I said people have to be TAUGHT to respond this way. It's called training.

Ok....so, what's your plan for teaching everyone?

As I said you start in Jr. High or middle school and reinforce it through out public education and even into college.

 

[OKTexas]

Given proper military training...

... it might be possible, but...

.. you willin' to be the first to go unarmed...

... up against an AR-15?

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

Or arm the victims to start with. It was a gun free zone.

Every police who responded to that murder that evening had a weapon.

It took ELEVEN highly trained police offers to stop and kill that man but you believe an untrained civilian who is partying will.

That's the problem with you people. YOU DON'T THINK.

Well dumb ass I could set up a demonstration with a paint ball gun and prove otherwise. You're the one not thinking.

I will wager you will get more people willing to rush a paint ball gun than you will to rush an AR-15. As someone else said....this is not the movies.

We don't teach military tactics using lethal means, it works very well to teach methods, police use similar techniques.

 

[Dana7360]

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

Well if they didn't have a magazine that held more than say 6 or 10 bullets maybe your theory might work.

But that's not reality in America. Here in America a person can have an assault weapon that kills large amounts of people in a matter of a few minutes. Large capacity magazines to ensure they kill a large amount of humans before they have to reload.

Here's a idea. Ban high capacity magazines.

Here's another idea. Ban assault weapons.

If this man had not had access to an assault weapon and high capacity magazine clips, none of this would have happened.

And don't tell me that can't be done. It was done in the 90s. The republicans allowed the ban to expire in the bush boy years and we've had countless mass murders since then.

By the way, democrats tried to ban weapons from terrorists and possible terrorists. The republicans filibustered the bill and killed it.

So when the republicans stop preventing common sense laws from being enacted, THEN I might take you all seriously about terrorism and mass murders.

Right now, you're part of the problem so nothing you all say or do means anything to me.

It would work if they had a hundred round magazine. Now run along with your gun grabbing bullshit.

So you advocate that more people are killed?

That's not very smart.

The logical way to stop all this is to do what has already been tried here and in other nations and has proven to succeed.

Ban high capacity magazines.
Ban assault weapons.

That's not banning ALL guns. It's just taking military style weapons out of the civilian population keeping them where they belong. In the military.

Since it took ELEVEN highly trained police to stop him, what makes you think that untrained people who are partying will?

We didn't have this problem when assault weapons weren't available to the general public. Which was most of the history of our nation. It wasn't until the last 4 or so decades that these weapons were available.

America was just fine. In fact, you people want to return to those days in many ways. Why not in this way?

 

[OKTexas]

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

Well if they didn't have a magazine that held more than say 6 or 10 bullets maybe your theory might work.

But that's not reality in America. Here in America a person can have an assault weapon that kills large amounts of people in a matter of a few minutes. Large capacity magazines to ensure they kill a large amount of humans before they have to reload.

Here's a idea. Ban high capacity magazines.

Here's another idea. Ban assault weapons.

If this man had not had access to an assault weapon and high capacity magazine clips, none of this would have happened.

And don't tell me that can't be done. It was done in the 90s. The republicans allowed the ban to expire in the bush boy years and we've had countless mass murders since then.

By the way, democrats tried to ban weapons from terrorists and possible terrorists. The republicans filibustered the bill and killed it.

So when the republicans stop preventing common sense laws from being enacted, THEN I might take you all seriously about terrorism and mass murders.

Right now, you're part of the problem so nothing you all say or do means anything to me.

It would work if they had a hundred round magazine. Now run along with your gun grabbing bullshit.

So you advocate that more people are killed?

That's not very smart.

The logical way to stop all this is to do what has already been tried here and in other nations and has proven to succeed.

Ban high capacity magazines.
Ban assault weapons.

That's not banning ALL guns. It's just taking military style weapons out of the civilian population keeping them where they belong. In the military.

Since it took ELEVEN highly trained police to stop him, what makes you think that untrained people who are partying will?

We didn't have this problem when assault weapons weren't available to the general public. Which was most of the history of our nation. It wasn't until the last 4 or so decades that these weapons were available.

America was just fine. In fact, you people want to return to those days in many ways. Why not in this way?

You still aren't getting it, the police went in 3 hours after the sooting started, I'm talking about intervention in the first 3 seconds.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

The gunman didn't have any trouble getting an angle. Besides, if enough are armed, one has to be close enough when he enters.

Ok, you keep thinking that, I'm telling you what will work to minimize causalities 100% of the time.

And you're not wrong. It would minimize casualties. So would actually arming the victims, since they'd be able to gun down the lowlife as soon as he enters the building and raises his gun.

Just seeing someone raising a gun in a crowd doesn't justify shooting them, it could be an undercover cop seeing something you don't. You obviously haven't had much training.

You're right, I've had zero training. So uh, how many cops carry an AR-15?

Many.

I don't think that many carry them while undercover... or typically in general.

 

[OKTexas]

Ok, you keep thinking that, I'm telling you what will work to minimize causalities 100% of the time.

And you're not wrong. It would minimize casualties. So would actually arming the victims, since they'd be able to gun down the lowlife as soon as he enters the building and raises his gun.

Just seeing someone raising a gun in a crowd doesn't justify shooting them, it could be an undercover cop seeing something you don't. You obviously haven't had much training.

You're right, I've had zero training. So uh, how many cops carry an AR-15?

Many.

I don't think that many carry them while undercover... or typically in general.

You didn't specify an AR in your original post, you said when they raise their gun, didn't you. With people reacting the way they did he could have killed just as many with a hand gun with plenty of magazines, like I said earlier he reloaded at least 4 times.

 

[tigerred59]

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

The first real instincts of humans when faced with danger is to protect themselves from harm, run, get out of the way...in essence become a coward and protect you. This John Wayne bullshit you NRA gun toting **** heads keep putting out here is all fantasy. Perhaps in a few incidents hero's emerge and yes there are times when all envolved can prevent further mayham, but time and time again, most people are caught off guard and their survival instincts prevail.

Please if you want to offer advice or co sign onto Trump bullshit, find a website for comedians and have at it.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

And you're not wrong. It would minimize casualties. So would actually arming the victims, since they'd be able to gun down the lowlife as soon as he enters the building and raises his gun.

Just seeing someone raising a gun in a crowd doesn't justify shooting them, it could be an undercover cop seeing something you don't. You obviously haven't had much training.

You're right, I've had zero training. So uh, how many cops carry an AR-15?

Many.

I don't think that many carry them while undercover... or typically in general.

You didn't specify an AR in your original post, you said when they raise their gun, didn't you. With people reacting the way they did he could have killed just as many with a hand gun with plenty of magazines, like I said earlier he reloaded at least 4 times.

You are correct, he could have. Unless they were armed, in which case he'd have been dropped when he started firing.

 

[OKTexas]

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

The first real instincts of humans when faced with danger is to protect themselves from harm, run, get out of the way...in essence become a coward and protect you. This John Wayne bullshit you NRA gun toting **** heads keep putting out here is all fantasy. Perhaps in a few incidents hero's emerge and yes there are times when all envolved can prevent further mayham, but time and time again, most people are caught off guard and their survival instincts prevail.

Please if you want to offer advice or co sign onto Trump bullshit, find a website for comedians and have at it.

Once again dumbass, if you train people how to react, causalities could be kept to a minimum. People to the sides and behind the guy could have stopped him in seconds, they just need to be taught to do it. Your answer is just play the victim and die, no thanks.

 

[OKTexas]

Just seeing someone raising a gun in a crowd doesn't justify shooting them, it could be an undercover cop seeing something you don't. You obviously haven't had much training.

You're right, I've had zero training. So uh, how many cops carry an AR-15?

Many.

I don't think that many carry them while undercover... or typically in general.

You didn't specify an AR in your original post, you said when they raise their gun, didn't you. With people reacting the way they did he could have killed just as many with a hand gun with plenty of magazines, like I said earlier he reloaded at least 4 times.

You are correct, he could have. Unless they were armed, in which case he'd have been dropped when he started firing.

Pleas stay on topic, if and when States change their laws and allow guns in clubs your solution might apply, until then you have to teach unarmed intervention.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

You're right, I've had zero training. So uh, how many cops carry an AR-15?

Many.

I don't think that many carry them while undercover... or typically in general.

You didn't specify an AR in your original post, you said when they raise their gun, didn't you. With people reacting the way they did he could have killed just as many with a hand gun with plenty of magazines, like I said earlier he reloaded at least 4 times.

You are correct, he could have. Unless they were armed, in which case he'd have been dropped when he started firing.

Pleas stay on topic, if and when States change their laws and allow guns in clubs your solution might apply, until then you have to teach unarmed intervention.

I did say that the method you mentioned would work. I said you were right. I'm just also pointing out that there should be no gun free zones.

 

[Votto]

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

You do realize that you are talking to a populace that needs warning labels on cigarettes, right?​

 

[OKTexas]

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

You do realize that you are talking to a populace that needs warning labels on cigarettes, right?​

Yep, that's why I said it will take education and training and the earlier you start the better.

 

[Votto]

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

You do realize that you are talking to a populace that needs warning labels on cigarettes, right?​

Yep, that's why I said it will take education and training and the earlier you start the better.

Education? Have you seen national test results in US public education?

 

[Pumpkin Row]

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

You do realize that you are talking to a populace that needs warning labels on cigarettes, right?​

Yep, that's why I said it will take education and training and the earlier you start the better.

Education? Have you seen national test results in US public education?

Welcome to government education.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

An AR 15 is being fired in an indoor venue where no one has hearing protection...

This is the context in which such proposals should be made.

 

[2aguy]

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

During the Fort Hood shooting 3 soldiers charged the muslim terrorist and he shot and either killed or wounded them...then went on shooting.....

This guy was on the phone to 911 several times, and he cleaned up in the bathroom....there were apparently multiple times where someone with a gun could possibly have shot him......but it was a gun free zone.


And to those who talk about drinking and guns.....if you go to a night club and have a gun on you...you don't drink...just like if you are the designated driver...right?

 

[2aguy]

An AR 15 is being fired in an indoor venue where no one has hearing protection...

This is the context in which such proposals should be made.

And it is dark, and loud already with music, and the herd has already started running away from the threat...and bottle necking in the exits......and many are intoxicated or high...

 

[2aguy]

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

Or arm the victims to start with. It was a gun free zone.

In a crowd density like that club it could take too much time to get an angle for a clean shot.

Not when he is on the phone with 911...or coming down a narrow hallway to the office or bathroom where you are hiding....or through the bathroom door....or while he is at the sink cleaning up and you are playing dead on the floor in the bathroom....which some in the club were doing....

 

[2aguy]

Or arm the victims to start with. It was a gun free zone.

In a crowd density like that club it could take too much time to get an angle for a clean shot.

The gunman didn't have any trouble getting an angle. Besides, if enough are armed, one has to be close enough when he enters.

Ok, you keep thinking that, I'm telling you what will work to minimize causalities 100% of the time.

And you're not wrong. It would minimize casualties. So would actually arming the victims, since they'd be able to gun down the lowlife as soon as he enters the building and raises his gun.

Just seeing someone raising a gun in a crowd doesn't justify shooting them, it could be an undercover cop seeing something you don't. You obviously haven't had much training.

Yeah...but when he starts yelling Allahu ahkbar, and pumping rounds into people just standing around...that is a pretty good idea that something is slightly amiss.......