The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[legaleagle_45]

No it is not agreed. The prosecution made that point in his opening that there were no bruises, was no blood on the kid. You all just continue to deny that fact..

Indeed they did, however the prosecution was careful not to say there were no injuries to to Martin's hands... just no "bruises" and "no blood from Zimmerman"

What they did not report was that Trayvon did have an abrasion on his knuckles indicative of hitting someone or something. Zimmerman had no injury to his knuckles but did have a broken nose and lacerations to the back of his head. If Martin was on top of Zimmerman, it would be unlikely for Martin to get any of Zimmerman's blood on him. If Zimmerman was on top of Martin, and considering that he was bleeding from the nose and the back of the head, it is likely that some of Zimmermand blood would be found on Trayvon.

Further, the back of Zimmerman's jacket was wet and covered with grass as if he was laying on his back. Martin hoody was wet on the front but relatively dry on the back and Martin had grass stains on his knees as well. If Zimmerman was on top of Maritn attacking him, why is the back of Martin's hoody dry, why are there grass stains on his knees and why are ther no injuries to Zimmermands knuckles... no bruising, no abrasion or anything?

This case is not as clear cut as you would make it appear. I think I will wait for all the evidence to come out.

 

[legaleagle_45]

Just one more thing before I go, why was the defense focusing on the "get off, get off" comment rather than Martin being at his house and running back to beat up Zimmerman if that was really what happened? If it was true, the defense would have spent a lot more time on that.

Because they want the jury to accept that part of the testimony that Martin had arrived at his residence. They need to rebut the "get off" testimony. Quite simple. They will emphasize the arrival at the residence testimony later. The prosecution will emphasize the "get off" testimony.

 

[Nate]

She seems awfully pissy towards the prosecution even though this is their witness, lol.

 

[Ernie S.]

They're used to asking Dee Dee questions. Don't know how to deal with a reasonably intelligent witness.

 

[LoneLaugher]

******* attorneys should stick to asking pertinent questions and avoid asking ******* obvious questions.

 

[25Caliber]

Thank you. It was very hard to follow her. I also felt like she said that he got away from him and was at his house. However, the altercation took place some distance away from his home. Would that not substantiate the defendant's account of what happened? I feel if she was supposed to show anything beyond a reasonable doubt, she really failed. Just my opinion if I was in the box.

Based on all of the information received from her and zimmerman.

1) Trayvon was followed
2) Trayvon ran through the courtyard and behind a building
3) GZ got out of his truck and started running so he wouldnt lose him and his location
4) GZ got to the courtyard (where the T in the sidewalk connects) looked around and couldnt see him (hes gone).
5) GZ is continuing to talk to dispatch and continues to walk up the T to the road...looks around again and cant see him
6) GZ starts to walk back in the direction he came in at.
7) GZ gets back to the cross in the T and he hears Trayvon ask him "is there a problem" or "why are you following me?"...Trayvon is coming at GZ at this point.
8) GZ tells them "he doesnt have a problem"
9) GZ goes to reach for what he says was his phone in his right side coat or pants pocket
10) As GZ is reaching for the "phone", Trayvon punches him in the nose and GZ stumbles to the ground
11) Trayvon jumps on top of him and there is a struggle
12) During the struggle Trayvon begin bashing Zimmermans head in the ground and GZ starts yelling for help
13) Neighbor hears the commotion and comes out to look...says hes calling 911...GZ says "no help me"
14) Neighbor says no Im calling 911
15) seconds after neighbor is on the phone GZ is screaming for help, there is a struggle and at some point the gun is exposed.
16) GZ manages to pull the gun out and quickly shoots trayvon in the heart and instantly kills him.
17) GZ pushes the body off of him and Trayvon is now dead face first in the grass.

Was Trayvon followed? Yes.

Was he committing a crime? No

Did GZ have a right to be suspicious? Yes

Could Trayvon have made it home instead? Yes

Did Trayvon have a right to be irritated with someone following him? Yes

Did Trayvon have a right to ask the person following him why? Yes

When approached, was GZ reaching for his phone before he got punched? IMO...NO...he was scared and panicked and was most likely going for his gun.

--I mean c'mon here. GZ cant have it both ways, imo. If he wants us to believe what he is saying, then its tuff to believe that GZ is reaching for a phone with some angry guy charging him...especially when the gun is exactly where he said he was reaching. Why grab your phone? The cops are on the way...aint nobody gonna help you that quick....he instinctively was going for his gun because he was in fear of a fight...this is common sense, IMO. Sorry you dont follow someone in the dark relentlessly even running after them at one point, and then when confronted pull out your gun. Essentially, you are admitting you shouldnt have been there in the first place.

Did trayvon have a right to punch someone who had been following him and is now reaching for something in his pocket in a panic? IMO, hell yes!

Is it within reason that GZ feared serious injury from being punched and having head bashed into the concrete? Yes.

This is the gray area...does the person following and pursuing someone in the dark and then when approached reaches for or in the area of what turns out to be a gun holstered on his right side have a right to claim self defense?

My opinion? GZ should not have been following someone in the dark on the phone with 911 carrying a pistol...hes not a cop...if you are going to follow, then leave the gun in the car...if you dont think you can follow safety without the gun...THEN DONT FOLLOW.

Trayvon is dead and cant defend himself in court or testify to what he heard or seen on GZ that night. IMO GZ should serve several years for manslaughter...not M2...GZ was not looking to go kill someone that night...he was trying to protect the neighborhood...but in doing it acted irresponsible and with bad judgment. I would give him a 10 year sentence...time off with good behavior hes out in 5 years...that puts him somewhere around 35 yrs old and the rest of his life to live, but he should be punished for using bad judgment and following a person with a gun.

I have to disagree with some of your post. I don't think this was manslaughter, I think it was self defense. You do NOT have the right to turn and assault the person behind you. And if you assault someone you believe is reaching for a gun, you are patently stupid. If I thought someone was pulling a gun on me I would consider the following choices, 1) Run away in a zig zag line to make it hard to hit me, 2) put up my hands and say 'whoa there, lets' not get rash here.' ) If my home was just a matter of a few feet or yards away, I'm head for the door of it fast. But then I was never a gang member, and I never felt the lure of a 'rumble.'

I understand your disagreement. However, I didnt say trayvon thought he was reaching for a gun...I said I thought it. They were in a confrontation and GZ reached for something...GZ says it was a phone, I dont believe him....doesnt make sense.

I think GZ bears some responsibility here:

1) He is following someone who did not commit a crime and he is packing a pistol. If you cannot safely follow someone without packing, then maybe you shouldnt follow....hes not a cop...you dont pursue or run after someone packin heat...something bad might happen.

2) He failed to defuse the situation when approached by Martin...instead he went reaching. He was following someone but was not prepared once confronted? You frantically start reaching for you phone?

You and i are different...If I am in a confrontation with some strange dude following me in the dark and when confronted starts frantically reaching for something in his pocket, hes in real danger of being KTFO...as he was.

I wonder what the response of the 911 dispatch would have been had Zimmerman said this:

"Hes running away...im running after him and I have a gun"!...but Zimmerman didnt inform the dispatch that he was carrying a gun did he? Had he done that...you would have heard an entirely different response from the dispatch and it wouldnt have just been "we dont need you to do that".

Im walking home from the damn 7-eleven...you dont follow me with a gun!! He didnt witness a crime...he had suspicion and he isnt a cop.

He bears some responsiblity for what happened that night and he should serve time for it. They have overcharged in my opinion...they should have went after the lesser charge of manslaughter. Hes out when hes 35.

Maybe next time he will think about:

1) who he follows
2) why he follows
3) when he follows
4) what he is carrying when he follows

...but thats next time...for now? Lock him up and let him learn his lesson.

 

[Nate]

Best witness so far. No guessing, no speculation, and no giving her own theories.

 

[Truthseeker420]

Just trying to get up to date on the testimony but Trayvon's girlfriend seemed like a good witness for the prosecution.

 

[Nate]

Just trying to get up to date on the testimony but Trayvon's girlfriend seemed like a good witness for the prosecution.

Really? I think she may turned off the jury with her saying cracker wasn't racist... Being that a majority of the jury are "crackers"

 

[Sunshine]

So this could take a few months? Why don't they just waterboard her?

Of course all of this will be perfectly acceptable to you when the prosecution does the same thing to Zimmerman. Bigot.

No. It would not be perfectly acceptable to me if the prosecution did the same thing to Zimmerman. Bigot? You imagine what I might think, then based on your imagination you accuse me of Bigotry?

WOW

Well here's a flash. The prosecution is going to do the very same thing when the defense puts on their witnesses. Only it will be 'white man to white man' and it will be rougher than anything you ever saw on TV. You are a bigot.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Just trying to get up to date on the testimony but Trayvon's girlfriend seemed like a good witness for the prosecution.

What dimension do you come from? She was devastating. She was overly divisive, argumentative, undecided and unwilling to be there in the first place. She admitted she signed a testimony she couldn't read and she admitted she lied to De La Raiondo in her deposition.

So how is she good for the prosecution?

 

[Ernie S.]

Based on all of the information received from her and zimmerman.

1) Trayvon was followed
2) Trayvon ran through the courtyard and behind a building
3) GZ got out of his truck and started running so he wouldnt lose him and his location
4) GZ got to the courtyard (where the T in the sidewalk connects) looked around and couldnt see him (hes gone).
5) GZ is continuing to talk to dispatch and continues to walk up the T to the road...looks around again and cant see him
6) GZ starts to walk back in the direction he came in at.
7) GZ gets back to the cross in the T and he hears Trayvon ask him "is there a problem" or "why are you following me?"...Trayvon is coming at GZ at this point.
8) GZ tells them "he doesnt have a problem"
9) GZ goes to reach for what he says was his phone in his right side coat or pants pocket
10) As GZ is reaching for the "phone", Trayvon punches him in the nose and GZ stumbles to the ground
11) Trayvon jumps on top of him and there is a struggle
12) During the struggle Trayvon begin bashing Zimmermans head in the ground and GZ starts yelling for help
13) Neighbor hears the commotion and comes out to look...says hes calling 911...GZ says "no help me"
14) Neighbor says no Im calling 911
15) seconds after neighbor is on the phone GZ is screaming for help, there is a struggle and at some point the gun is exposed.
16) GZ manages to pull the gun out and quickly shoots trayvon in the heart and instantly kills him.
17) GZ pushes the body off of him and Trayvon is now dead face first in the grass.

Was Trayvon followed? Yes.

Was he committing a crime? No

Did GZ have a right to be suspicious? Yes

Could Trayvon have made it home instead? Yes

Did Trayvon have a right to be irritated with someone following him? Yes

Did Trayvon have a right to ask the person following him why? Yes

When approached, was GZ reaching for his phone before he got punched? IMO...NO...he was scared and panicked and was most likely going for his gun.

--I mean c'mon here. GZ cant have it both ways, imo. If he wants us to believe what he is saying, then its tuff to believe that GZ is reaching for a phone with some angry guy charging him...especially when the gun is exactly where he said he was reaching. Why grab your phone? The cops are on the way...aint nobody gonna help you that quick....he instinctively was going for his gun because he was in fear of a fight...this is common sense, IMO. Sorry you dont follow someone in the dark relentlessly even running after them at one point, and then when confronted pull out your gun. Essentially, you are admitting you shouldnt have been there in the first place.

Did trayvon have a right to punch someone who had been following him and is now reaching for something in his pocket in a panic? IMO, hell yes!

Is it within reason that GZ feared serious injury from being punched and having head bashed into the concrete? Yes.

This is the gray area...does the person following and pursuing someone in the dark and then when approached reaches for or in the area of what turns out to be a gun holstered on his right side have a right to claim self defense?

My opinion? GZ should not have been following someone in the dark on the phone with 911 carrying a pistol...hes not a cop...if you are going to follow, then leave the gun in the car...if you dont think you can follow safety without the gun...THEN DONT FOLLOW.

Trayvon is dead and cant defend himself in court or testify to what he heard or seen on GZ that night. IMO GZ should serve several years for manslaughter...not M2...GZ was not looking to go kill someone that night...he was trying to protect the neighborhood...but in doing it acted irresponsible and with bad judgment. I would give him a 10 year sentence...time off with good behavior hes out in 5 years...that puts him somewhere around 35 yrs old and the rest of his life to live, but he should be punished for using bad judgment and following a person with a gun.

I have to disagree with some of your post. I don't think this was manslaughter, I think it was self defense. You do NOT have the right to turn and assault the person behind you. And if you assault someone you believe is reaching for a gun, you are patently stupid. If I thought someone was pulling a gun on me I would consider the following choices, 1) Run away in a zig zag line to make it hard to hit me, 2) put up my hands and say 'whoa there, lets' not get rash here.' ) If my home was just a matter of a few feet or yards away, I'm head for the door of it fast. But then I was never a gang member, and I never felt the lure of a 'rumble.'

I understand your disagreement. However, I didnt say trayvon thought he was reaching for a gun...I said I thought it. They were in a confrontation and GZ reached for something...GZ says it was a phone, I dont believe him....doesnt make sense.

I think GZ bears some responsibility here:

1) He is following someone who did not commit a crime and he is packing a pistol. If you cannot safely follow someone without packing, then maybe you shouldnt follow....hes not a cop...you dont pursue or run after someone packin heat...something bad might happen.

2) He failed to defuse the situation when approached by Martin...instead he went reaching. He was following someone but was not prepared once confronted? You frantically start reaching for you phone?

You and i are different...If I am in a confrontation with some strange dude following me in the dark and when confronted starts frantically reaching for something in his pocket, hes in real danger of being KTFO...as he was.

I wonder what the response of the 911 dispatch would have been had Zimmerman said this:

"Hes running away...im running after him and I have a gun"!...but Zimmerman didnt inform the dispatch that he was carrying a gun did he? Had he done that...you would have heard an entirely different response from the dispatch and it wouldnt have just been "we dont need you to do that".

Im walking home from the damn 7-eleven...you dont follow me with a gun!! He didnt witness a crime...he had suspicion and he isnt a cop.

He bears some responsiblity for what happened that night and he should serve time for it. They have overcharged in my opinion...they should have went after the lesser charge of manslaughter. Hes out when hes 35.

1) He is following someone who did not commit a crime and he is packing a pistol. If you cannot safely follow someone without packing, then maybe you shouldnt follow....hes not a cop...you dont pursue or run after someone packin heat...something bad might happen.
He is following someone he thinks may be up to no good in his capacity as Neighborhood Watch Co-ordinator.
He was within his rights to carry a pistol.
Again, his JOB was to follow suspicious characters. The gun is only necessary if he is attacked by someone he may be following. Had he not been confronted, the police who were on their way would have dealt with the situation. Trevon would be alive. Zimmerman would not be on trial.

 

[RKMBrown]

his JOB was to follow suspicious characters

That's not what I've heard. I've heard eyes and ears.. I've not heard the job of the NW is to "follow suspicious characters." You may be confusing the role of police and the role of the NW.

 

[legaleagle_45]

Just trying to get up to date on the testimony but Trayvon's girlfriend seemed like a good witness for the prosecution.

Only if you think the prosecution wants to lose.

 

[Sunshine]

Based on all of the information received from her and zimmerman.

1) Trayvon was followed
2) Trayvon ran through the courtyard and behind a building
3) GZ got out of his truck and started running so he wouldnt lose him and his location
4) GZ got to the courtyard (where the T in the sidewalk connects) looked around and couldnt see him (hes gone).
5) GZ is continuing to talk to dispatch and continues to walk up the T to the road...looks around again and cant see him
6) GZ starts to walk back in the direction he came in at.
7) GZ gets back to the cross in the T and he hears Trayvon ask him "is there a problem" or "why are you following me?"...Trayvon is coming at GZ at this point.
8) GZ tells them "he doesnt have a problem"
9) GZ goes to reach for what he says was his phone in his right side coat or pants pocket
10) As GZ is reaching for the "phone", Trayvon punches him in the nose and GZ stumbles to the ground
11) Trayvon jumps on top of him and there is a struggle
12) During the struggle Trayvon begin bashing Zimmermans head in the ground and GZ starts yelling for help
13) Neighbor hears the commotion and comes out to look...says hes calling 911...GZ says "no help me"
14) Neighbor says no Im calling 911
15) seconds after neighbor is on the phone GZ is screaming for help, there is a struggle and at some point the gun is exposed.
16) GZ manages to pull the gun out and quickly shoots trayvon in the heart and instantly kills him.
17) GZ pushes the body off of him and Trayvon is now dead face first in the grass.

Was Trayvon followed? Yes.

Was he committing a crime? No

Did GZ have a right to be suspicious? Yes

Could Trayvon have made it home instead? Yes

Did Trayvon have a right to be irritated with someone following him? Yes

Did Trayvon have a right to ask the person following him why? Yes

When approached, was GZ reaching for his phone before he got punched? IMO...NO...he was scared and panicked and was most likely going for his gun.

--I mean c'mon here. GZ cant have it both ways, imo. If he wants us to believe what he is saying, then its tuff to believe that GZ is reaching for a phone with some angry guy charging him...especially when the gun is exactly where he said he was reaching. Why grab your phone? The cops are on the way...aint nobody gonna help you that quick....he instinctively was going for his gun because he was in fear of a fight...this is common sense, IMO. Sorry you dont follow someone in the dark relentlessly even running after them at one point, and then when confronted pull out your gun. Essentially, you are admitting you shouldnt have been there in the first place.

Did trayvon have a right to punch someone who had been following him and is now reaching for something in his pocket in a panic? IMO, hell yes!

Is it within reason that GZ feared serious injury from being punched and having head bashed into the concrete? Yes.

This is the gray area...does the person following and pursuing someone in the dark and then when approached reaches for or in the area of what turns out to be a gun holstered on his right side have a right to claim self defense?

My opinion? GZ should not have been following someone in the dark on the phone with 911 carrying a pistol...hes not a cop...if you are going to follow, then leave the gun in the car...if you dont think you can follow safety without the gun...THEN DONT FOLLOW.

Trayvon is dead and cant defend himself in court or testify to what he heard or seen on GZ that night. IMO GZ should serve several years for manslaughter...not M2...GZ was not looking to go kill someone that night...he was trying to protect the neighborhood...but in doing it acted irresponsible and with bad judgment. I would give him a 10 year sentence...time off with good behavior hes out in 5 years...that puts him somewhere around 35 yrs old and the rest of his life to live, but he should be punished for using bad judgment and following a person with a gun.

I have to disagree with some of your post. I don't think this was manslaughter, I think it was self defense. You do NOT have the right to turn and assault the person behind you. And if you assault someone you believe is reaching for a gun, you are patently stupid. If I thought someone was pulling a gun on me I would consider the following choices, 1) Run away in a zig zag line to make it hard to hit me, 2) put up my hands and say 'whoa there, lets' not get rash here.' ) If my home was just a matter of a few feet or yards away, I'm head for the door of it fast. But then I was never a gang member, and I never felt the lure of a 'rumble.'

I understand your disagreement. However, I didnt say trayvon thought he was reaching for a gun...I said I thought it. They were in a confrontation and GZ reached for something...GZ says it was a phone, I dont believe him....doesnt make sense.

I think GZ bears some responsibility here:

1) He is following someone who did not commit a crime and he is packing a pistol. If you cannot safely follow someone without packing, then maybe you shouldnt follow....hes not a cop...you dont pursue or run after someone packin heat...something bad might happen.

2) He failed to defuse the situation when approached by Martin...instead he went reaching. He was following someone but was not prepared once confronted? You frantically start reaching for you phone?

You and i are different...If I am in a confrontation with some strange dude following me in the dark and when confronted starts frantically reaching for something in his pocket, hes in real danger of being KTFO...as he was.

I wonder what the response of the 911 dispatch would have been had Zimmerman said this:

"Hes running away...im running after him and I have a gun"!...but Zimmerman didnt inform the dispatch that he was carrying a gun did he? Had he done that...you would have heard an entirely different response from the dispatch and it wouldnt have just been "we dont need you to do that".

Im walking home from the damn 7-eleven...you dont follow me with a gun!! He didnt witness a crime...he had suspicion and he isnt a cop.

He bears some responsiblity for what happened that night and he should serve time for it. They have overcharged in my opinion...they should have went after the lesser charge of manslaughter. Hes out when hes 35.

Maybe next time he will think about:

1) who he follows
2) why he follows
3) when he follows
4) what he is carrying when he follows

...but thats next time...for now? Lock him up and let him learn his lesson.

There is no law that says anyone has to 'obey' the 911 dispatcher. And FYI, when I moved to this subdivision the neighborhood watch people followed me every Friday when I got back from my travel assignment. I think he just wanted to tell the police where li'l Trayvon was and the only way to do that was to follow. It was his own housing complex. Zimmerman had every right to be in any part of it. Martin did not have the right to assault him. But when he did, Zimmerman had the right to defend himself.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

Cant wait to see this ******* guy go to jail forever.

Damn, I hope there is a guilty verdict. Then, wait for the excuses by the right.

Why not wait until all the facts get laid on the table, or are you just out for a good ol' lynchin'?

He said he's hoping for a guilty VERDICT, which implies allowing the trial to take its course. How do you get a "good ol' lynchin'" out of that?

 

[Ernie S.]

I follow people daily while carrying a gun. So far not a single one of them has broken my nose and bashed my head into the pavement. I'm happy to report that every single person I have ever followed is alive and well.

 

[Sunshine]

If Z is not convicted Florida will have a new state song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UaVBkxRAG0

And what manner of threat is THIS?!!

 

[Gracie]

"What does wet grass sound like?"

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

Once upon a time,in America,you were presumed innocent until proven guilty, now we have a media whipped up frenzied politicized reality TV version called justice. How can anyone receive a fair and unbiased trial under these set of circumstances? It is apparent that if Zimmerman had been Black and Martin white this issue would never have attained the current level of national attention? I can see it now, Jessie and Al demanding all charges be dropped on the court house stairs with CNBC, CNN et... covering the media event.

You are presumed innocent until proven guilty...in the eyes of the law.

Doesn't mean people won't have their own opinions about it.

One thing I've always wondered about that b.s. innocent until proven guilty business. If it's true, why are people sometimes kept in jail for months and months prior to and all during their trial? Oh, I know...because they're not REALLY considered innocent until proven guilty, those are just nice words, devoid of any real meaning.