The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[Yarddog]

And Trans Jordan was supposed to be the area allocated for those who wanted a pure Arab State. What was left over was to be shared by both Arabs and Jews but the Arabs rejected this a few times. So they wanted all of "Palestine" for their own.
You cant see whats wrong with this?

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

LOL. Says the girl who brought up JC in the first place -- a person unknown in history other than from the Bible, btw.

This is simply false. Please research this stuff yourself. I don't have time to teach history, especially the simple stuff.

Why don't you take some of your own advice and just the Jewish people be people and stop denying their existence.

Jewish people are people. I have never had a problem there. It is your use of "the Jewish people" that creates so much confusion. The majority of your posts would hold more weight by speaking of the zionist people when you use that all encompassing term.

The name of the territory in history has nothing to do with the rights of the TWO very distinct peoples who are now both asking for self-determination and sovereignty. Why don't you post on the solutions thread and give us an idea of how you would solve the conflict.

All those solutions threads are bogus solutions built on impossible premises. And the very idea that I or any of us can solve this is silly.

My personal solution is what I have explained previously. And be aware, that my paper has now morphed into a book. I am writing with a Palestinian friend who escaped Gaza years ago. Our Jesuit priest teacher found us a publisher and will be involved as well. A Jew, Christian and Palestinian working together in harmony whodathunkit, right? Well, actually, this is how it was prior to zionism.

Research
Read
Study
Learn
It must start there.

Yes abi, I'll ask again, what is your solution to the conflict?

#internettroll

See above and sorry for not responding to you sooner, but I can't be here all the time as I have many other things going on.

For someone who wanted honest and intelligent discussion, all I hear now is crickets . . . . doesn't seem very honest to me. Nor academic.

See above and try to chill, please. My first interaction with you was you lying about me, twice, and then finally apologizing (a pretty half-assed apology with insinuations of antisemitism). There is no need to ask three times unless you are here to stalk/troll.

What those of us who were paying attention to the actual events in 1967 really need is some brainwashed young girl who wasn't even close to being alive at the time telling us what really went down.

The zionist narrative is a fantasy. She used Begin's own words. Facts are facts.

abi What happened to you? Why do you not answer honest questions that have been posed to you in this thread? In another thread you said you are not some kid that I can lie about. Well then defend your statements.

Again. What is your source of your claim that Judea was called Palestine centuries before Christ?

#internettrollstalker

Again. What is your source of your claim that Judea was called Palestine centuries before Christ?

Like I explained above to Shusha, please research this stuff yourself. I don't have time to teach history, especially the simple stuff.

HINT: she gave two source in the video.

Interesting, piece of bullshit propaganda. And now for the truth, from the mouth of Arabs and so called Palestinians themselves:

Sorry, we can't use an unsourced web page in academic work any more than we can use the bible. And if you took a few minutes as I did to read some of the stuff published on that page, then you would know that it is a simple propaganda site. Basically, it disqualifies itself.

The History of Israel - Time Line

To try make it simple, here is a timeline. Note in the year 1099, the crusaders killed both Jews and Muslims, meaning that jews have always lived there. They never disappeared from the region that was known as Judea. How you think it was called Palestine centuries before Christ is mind boggling.
Face it, Jews have always lived in that area for thousands of years, they were never completely driven out. The fact that more Jews later came from Europe and elswhere doesnt lessen that fact.

Most European Jews were living in Europe since Roman times.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

This claim I have seen so oft-repeated appears to be simply that. It is a claim that was popularized in a propaganda video put out by Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. As a bonus, another young lady comes on to explain the claim that the six day war was fought in self defense. It is only six minutes long and I would love the opportunity for academic discussion of these topics. For example, if something is factually incorrect, please state why, and post a source for the correction. Thanks in advance for any help.

Can she tell us why there were no Americans in 1500?

Good question. What were native Americans called before it was America? Were they a different people? Did they just not exist?

What were native Americans called before it was America?

Americans were British.

"Palestinians" were Arabs.

You're probably British, which would explain the kook ideals you support like Zionist, and denying Native American existence pre-British Americans.

Usually only Brits, in fact basically just British Americans are the only people this stupid to follow this junk.

You're probably British

Nope.

denying Native American existence pre-British Americans.

Nah, there were a bunch of Indians here before the British arrived.

Lots of them were murderous brutes.

 

[Roudy]

This claim I have seen so oft-repeated appears to be simply that. It is a claim that was popularized in a propaganda video put out by Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. As a bonus, another young lady comes on to explain the claim that the six day war was fought in self defense. It is only six minutes long and I would love the opportunity for academic discussion of these topics. For example, if something is factually incorrect, please state why, and post a source for the correction. Thanks in advance for any help.

Interesting, piece of bullshit propaganda. And now for the truth, from the mouth of Arabs and so called Palestinians themselves:

Palestinians are the newest of all the peoples on the face of the Earth, and began to exist in a single day by a kind of supernatural phenomenon that is unique in the whole history of mankind, as it is witnessed by a former PLO terrorist that acknowledged the lie he was fighting for and the truth he was fighting against:

“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
“We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
“When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.

The name "Falastin" that Arabs today use for "Palestine" is not an Arabic name, but adopted and adapted from the Latin Palæstina . How can an Arab people have a western name instead of one in their own language? Because the use of the term "Palestinian" for an Arab group is only a modern political creation without any historic or ethnic grounds, and did not indicate any people before 1967. An Arab writer and journalist declared:


"There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of one percent of the landmass. But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today... No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough".
- Joseph Farah, "Myths of the Middle East" -

Let us hear what other Arabs have said:

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -

"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
- Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -

Concerning the Holy Land, the chairman of the Syrian Delegation at the Paris Peace Conference in February 1919 stated:
"The only Arab domination since the Conquest in 635 c.e. hardly lasted, as such, 22 years".

What other Arabs declared after the Six-Day War:

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".
- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -

"You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".
- Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -

"As I lived in Palestine, everyone I knew could trace their heritage back to the original country their great grandparents came from. Everyone knew their origin was not from the Canaanites, but ironically, this is the kind of stuff our education in the Middle East included. The fact is that today's Palestinians are immigrants from the surrounding nations! I grew up well knowing the history and origins of today's Palestinians as being from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Christians from Greece, muslim Sherkas from Russia, muslims from Bosnia, and the Jordanians next door. My grandfather, who was a dignitary in Bethlehem, almost lost his life by Abdul Qader Al-Husseni (the leader of the Palestinian revolution) after being accused of selling land to Jews. He used to tell us that his village Beit Sahur (The Shepherds Fields) in Bethlehem County was empty before his father settled in the area with six other families. The town has now grown to 30,000 inhabitants".

-An "ex-Palestinian" terrorist.

You've admitted to Palestinians committing the Hebron Massacre in 1929, but then will say Palestinians didn't exist until 1967.

What a buffoon.

Read my post again, dumbass, it's the Arabs and their leaders at the time that said it.

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -

"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
- Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -

Concerning the Holy Land, the chairman of the Syrian Delegation at the Paris Peace Conference in February 1919 stated:
"The only Arab domination since the Conquest in 635 c.e. hardly lasted, as such, 22 years".

What other Arabs declared after the Six-Day War:

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".
- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -

"You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".
- Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -

So, you're arguing for a unified Arab state?
Wouldn't that be Israel's worst nightmare?
Because if there's just an "Arab country" and no such thing as Iraq, or Egypt, Jordan, Syria, or Palestine etc.
Well, then there must be an Arab state which is unified, and would amount to over 420 million of them.

Are you having this discussion just to vent your Jew hate or are you looking for historical accuracy?

If the latter then yes, the only "Palestinians" at the time were Jews that lived in the region. The Arabs then ganged up and attacked Israel, not once but many times, it wasn't to create this so called Palestinian state that never existed. They just wanted to destroy the Jewish state for the same reason that Muslims want Spain back. Once a land is under Muslim control, then it must never fall under infidel hands.

 

[Yarddog]

LOL. Says the girl who brought up JC in the first place -- a person unknown in history other than from the Bible, btw.

This is simply false. Please research this stuff yourself. I don't have time to teach history, especially the simple stuff.

Why don't you take some of your own advice and just the Jewish people be people and stop denying their existence.

Jewish people are people. I have never had a problem there. It is your use of "the Jewish people" that creates so much confusion. The majority of your posts would hold more weight by speaking of the zionist people when you use that all encompassing term.

The name of the territory in history has nothing to do with the rights of the TWO very distinct peoples who are now both asking for self-determination and sovereignty. Why don't you post on the solutions thread and give us an idea of how you would solve the conflict.

All those solutions threads are bogus solutions built on impossible premises. And the very idea that I or any of us can solve this is silly.

My personal solution is what I have explained previously. And be aware, that my paper has now morphed into a book. I am writing with a Palestinian friend who escaped Gaza years ago. Our Jesuit priest teacher found us a publisher and will be involved as well. A Jew, Christian and Palestinian working together in harmony whodathunkit, right? Well, actually, this is how it was prior to zionism.

Research
Read
Study
Learn
It must start there.

Yes abi, I'll ask again, what is your solution to the conflict?

#internettroll

See above and sorry for not responding to you sooner, but I can't be here all the time as I have many other things going on.

For someone who wanted honest and intelligent discussion, all I hear now is crickets . . . . doesn't seem very honest to me. Nor academic.

See above and try to chill, please. My first interaction with you was you lying about me, twice, and then finally apologizing (a pretty half-assed apology with insinuations of antisemitism). There is no need to ask three times unless you are here to stalk/troll.

What those of us who were paying attention to the actual events in 1967 really need is some brainwashed young girl who wasn't even close to being alive at the time telling us what really went down.

The zionist narrative is a fantasy. She used Begin's own words. Facts are facts.

abi What happened to you? Why do you not answer honest questions that have been posed to you in this thread? In another thread you said you are not some kid that I can lie about. Well then defend your statements.

Again. What is your source of your claim that Judea was called Palestine centuries before Christ?

#internettrollstalker

Again. What is your source of your claim that Judea was called Palestine centuries before Christ?

Like I explained above to Shusha, please research this stuff yourself. I don't have time to teach history, especially the simple stuff.

HINT: she gave two source in the video.

Interesting, piece of bullshit propaganda. And now for the truth, from the mouth of Arabs and so called Palestinians themselves:

Sorry, we can't use an unsourced web page in academic work any more than we can use the bible. And if you took a few minutes as I did to read some of the stuff published on that page, then you would know that it is a simple propaganda site. Basically, it disqualifies itself.

The History of Israel - Time Line

To try make it simple, here is a timeline. Note in the year 1099, the crusaders killed both Jews and Muslims, meaning that jews have always lived there. They never disappeared from the region that was known as Judea. How you think it was called Palestine centuries before Christ is mind boggling.
Face it, Jews have always lived in that area for thousands of years, they were never completely driven out. The fact that more Jews later came from Europe and elswhere doesnt lessen that fact.

Most European Jews were living in Europe since Roman times.

I don't know when most European Jews lived in Europe, but, they were still living throughout parts of the ME as well and they were still in the areas of Israel today. There has been a Jewish homeland there for thousands of years, as uncomfortable that fact is for many people.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

This claim I have seen so oft-repeated appears to be simply that. It is a claim that was popularized in a propaganda video put out by Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. As a bonus, another young lady comes on to explain the claim that the six day war was fought in self defense. It is only six minutes long and I would love the opportunity for academic discussion of these topics. For example, if something is factually incorrect, please state why, and post a source for the correction. Thanks in advance for any help.

Interesting, piece of bullshit propaganda. And now for the truth, from the mouth of Arabs and so called Palestinians themselves:

Palestinians are the newest of all the peoples on the face of the Earth, and began to exist in a single day by a kind of supernatural phenomenon that is unique in the whole history of mankind, as it is witnessed by a former PLO terrorist that acknowledged the lie he was fighting for and the truth he was fighting against:

“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
“We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
“When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.

The name "Falastin" that Arabs today use for "Palestine" is not an Arabic name, but adopted and adapted from the Latin Palæstina . How can an Arab people have a western name instead of one in their own language? Because the use of the term "Palestinian" for an Arab group is only a modern political creation without any historic or ethnic grounds, and did not indicate any people before 1967. An Arab writer and journalist declared:


"There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of one percent of the landmass. But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today... No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough".
- Joseph Farah, "Myths of the Middle East" -

Let us hear what other Arabs have said:

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -

"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
- Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -

Concerning the Holy Land, the chairman of the Syrian Delegation at the Paris Peace Conference in February 1919 stated:
"The only Arab domination since the Conquest in 635 c.e. hardly lasted, as such, 22 years".

What other Arabs declared after the Six-Day War:

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".
- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -

"You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".
- Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -

"As I lived in Palestine, everyone I knew could trace their heritage back to the original country their great grandparents came from. Everyone knew their origin was not from the Canaanites, but ironically, this is the kind of stuff our education in the Middle East included. The fact is that today's Palestinians are immigrants from the surrounding nations! I grew up well knowing the history and origins of today's Palestinians as being from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Christians from Greece, muslim Sherkas from Russia, muslims from Bosnia, and the Jordanians next door. My grandfather, who was a dignitary in Bethlehem, almost lost his life by Abdul Qader Al-Husseni (the leader of the Palestinian revolution) after being accused of selling land to Jews. He used to tell us that his village Beit Sahur (The Shepherds Fields) in Bethlehem County was empty before his father settled in the area with six other families. The town has now grown to 30,000 inhabitants".

-An "ex-Palestinian" terrorist.

You've admitted to Palestinians committing the Hebron Massacre in 1929, but then will say Palestinians didn't exist until 1967.

What a buffoon.

Read my post again, dumbass, it's the Arabs and their leaders at the time that said it.

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -

"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
- Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -

Concerning the Holy Land, the chairman of the Syrian Delegation at the Paris Peace Conference in February 1919 stated:
"The only Arab domination since the Conquest in 635 c.e. hardly lasted, as such, 22 years".

What other Arabs declared after the Six-Day War:

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".
- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -

"You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".
- Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -

So, you're arguing for a unified Arab state?
Wouldn't that be Israel's worst nightmare?
Because if there's just an "Arab country" and no such thing as Iraq, or Egypt, Jordan, Syria, or Palestine etc.
Well, then there must be an Arab state which is unified, and would amount to over 420 million of them.

Are you having this discussion just to vent your Jew hate or are you looking for historical accuracy?

If the latter then yes, the only "Palestinians" at the time were Jews that lived in the region. The Arabs then ganged up and attacked Israel, not once but many times, it wasn't to create this so called Palestinian state that never existed. They just wanted to destroy the Jewish state for the same reason that Muslims want Spain back. Once a land is under Muslim control, then it must never fall under infidel hands.

There was a Nakba, or Palestinian Exodus from Jewish massacres, and Jewish expulsions, whether you acknowledge it, or not.

It wouldn't really matter what they called themselves, what matters is you support something that kicked them off the land they lived on.

 

[teddyearp]

Thanks for the special hashtags. Let's get started.

LOL. Says the girl who brought up JC in the first place -- a person unknown in history other than from the Bible, btw.

This is simply false.

Are you denying that you were the first one to bring up Jesus Christ in this thread?

<snip>Why don't you post on the solutions thread and give us an idea of how you would solve the conflict.

All those solutions threads are bogus solutions built on impossible premises. And the very idea that I or any of us can solve this is silly.

Agreed, we cannot solve the problem here ourselves on this board, but your refusal to try to participate in those threads by saying they're built on bogus solutions and built on impossible premises does speak volumes for us here. Or at least for me.

You see, I am not some little boy you can push around and assign silly hashtags to.

Spoiler alert. I watched the 1967 seven day war. I watched Yasser Arafat form the PLO. I watched Yasser Arafat proclaim violence. I watched the 1972 Olympics. I watched the Black September Jordanian response. I watched the 1973 Yom Kipper war. I have been alive for the last 50+ years and seen it all.

You are (perhaps younger and) making a study, maybe you could ask me what I remember?

If you think I am a troll, well so be it. I am not. I only ask for you to think and when you do not answer a question, I ask again. An Internet troll only tries to provoke responses based upon a highly biased premise.

 

[abi]

Are you denying that you were the first one to bring up Jesus Christ in this thread?

Yes, it was the young lady in the OP video. And I must wonder, why can you not follow a conversation? Shusha's claim was false and that is why she left this thread. Hopefully, by now, she has realized that there is much extra-biblical evidence of Jesus. Hopefully, another realization that she came to is that yes, Palestine was Palestine for centuries before Christ was born.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Are you denying that you were the first one to bring up Jesus Christ in this thread?

Yes, it was the young lady in the OP video. And I must wonder, why can you not follow a conversation? Shusha's claim was false and that is why she left this thread. Hopefully, by now, she has realized that there is much extra-biblical evidence of Jesus. Hopefully, another realization that she came to is that yes, Palestine was Palestine for centuries before Christ was born.

Palestine was nice before all the Arabs invaded, eh?

 

[Shusha]

Are you denying that you were the first one to bring up Jesus Christ in this thread?

Yes, it was the young lady in the OP video. And I must wonder, why can you not follow a conversation? Shusha's claim was false and that is why she left this thread. Hopefully, by now, she has realized that there is much extra-biblical evidence of Jesus. Hopefully, another realization that she came to is that yes, Palestine was Palestine for centuries before Christ was born.

I have SO not left this thread. There is absolutely no extra-biblical evidence of JC. (Though, personally, I think the existence of the NT is enough to believe that he was *probably* an historic figure.) Please do not try to prove me wrong by introducing the doctored quotes from Josephus; the writings of Pliny and Tacitus which discuss Xtians and not JC; the claimed reference in the Talmud, which does not reference JC and PLEASE do not even consider attempting to point to fake artifacts like the Shroud of Turin or the ossuary.

Israel has been Israel for thousands of years. Does the fact that it was called Israel in antiquity give Jewish people rights to that land? Does the fact that it was also called, at times, Palestine, give Arab people rights to that land?

This ridiculous idea that how we label things gives rights needs to be dropped asap.

 

[teddyearp]

Are you denying that you were the first one to bring up Jesus Christ in this thread?

Yes, it was the young lady in the OP video. And I must wonder, why can you not follow a conversation? Shusha's claim was false and that is why she left this thread.<snip>

I see that, yet it is your OP in your thread in which the video is posted, therefore that proves (or at the very least, implies) that it was you who first brought up JC in this thread. Jesus Christ, however is not the subject of this thread.

I am fairly curious as to why you did not address anything else in my post. Are you having a hard time following a conversation? I see a pattern developing here where you chose not to address certain questions, deflect, and/or make false claims. Obviously Shusha has not left this thread. You did for several days. And your remarks about the solutions thread(s) marks more of the pattern I see here in you. A pattern I have seen in most all here who claim to be Pro-Palestinian.

Which brings me to this question. Are you pro-Palestinian and also recognize the right of the State of Israel to exist?

 

[Hollie]

Most people on the Israel, and Palestine forum rarely even venture into the rest of the forum.
Most of them are Zionists.
I guess proving Jewish claims to Israel is the most important thing for America. Haha, right.
F*ck off to Israel.

Awww, now is time for your shot of vodka and continue your coma.

What country do you reside in?
The U.S, or Israel?
If it's Israel why are you on this forum?
If it's the U.S why do you never leave the Israel vs Palestine forum?
What a bunch of Zionist shitheads.

"Zionist shitheads" piss me off too. What kind of people make peace offerings to Palestinians, build a security fence to keep them in Israel & even grant them land concessions? Face it you Zionists, no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, ever treated them like those Zionist shitheads in Israel.

PCHR-Gaza: Israeli Buffer Zone Policies Typically Enforced with Live Fire
May 11, 2015 11:27 PM IMEMC Agencies Gaza Strip, Internal Unrest, News Report 0

11 MAY
11:27 PM
Following disengagement from the Gaza Strip in September 2005, Israel unilaterally and illegally established a so-called ‘buffer zone’, an area prohibited to Palestinians along the land and sea borders of the Gaza Strip. The precise area designated by Israel as a ‘buffer zone’ is not clear and this Israeli policy is typically enforced with live fire. The establishment of the ‘buffer zone’ is illegal under both Israeli and international law.Preventing Palestinians from accessing their lands and fishing areas violates numerous provisions of international human rights law, including the right to work, the right to an adequate standard of living, and the right to the highest attainable standard of health. Enforcing the ‘buffer zone’ through the use of live fire often results in, inter alia, the direct targeting of civilians and/or indiscriminate attacks, both of which constitute war crimes.

Following the Israeli offensive on the Gaza Strip in November 2012, a ceasefire agreement between Israel and Palestinian armed groups was brokered by the Egyptian government, which included terms related to access to land and sea. In an online statement on 25 February 2013, the Israeli Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT) declared that fishermen could now access the sea up to six nautical miles offshore, and that farmers could now access lands in the border area up to 100m from the border fence. However, both references have since been removed from the statement.

Then, on 21 March 2013, the Israeli forces’ spokesperson announced re-reducing the fishing area allowed for Palestinian fishermen from 6 nautical miles to 3 nautical miles. However, on 21 May 2013, Israeli authorities decided to allow fishermen to sail up to 6 nautical miles.

Following the latest Israeli offensive on the Gaza Strip (08 July – 26 August 2014), a ceasefire agreement between Israel and Palestinian armed groups was brokered by the Egyptian government, which allowed fishermen to sail up to 6 nautical miles. However, the Israeli naval forces have not allowed fishermen to sail up to this limit as all Israeli attacks have taken place within the 6-nautical- mile fishing area.

Dimensions

On land, inside Palestinian territory

Distance from the border fence, up to which access is permitted:

· Second Intifada (2000): 150 metres

· According to Israel (2010) :300 metres

· 22 November 2012: unclear parameters

· 21 March 2013: 300 metres

In reality, attacks against civilians take place anywhere upto approximately 1.5 kilometres inside the border fence. This constitutes approximately 17% of the total territory of the Gaza Strip.

At sea, off the coast of the Gaza Strip

Distance from the shore, up to which access is permitted:

· Oslo Accords (1994): 20 nautical miles (nm)

· Bertini Commitment (2002): 12 nm

· October 2006: 6 nm

· End of 2007 : 3 nm

· 22 November 2012: 6 nm

· 25 February 2013: unknown

· 12 March 2013: 3 nm

· 21 May 2013: 6 nm

In addition, access is consistently denied in the following areas:

· 1.5 nm in the north along the maritime boundary with Israel

· 1 nm in the south along the maritime boundary with Egypt

Impact

On land

· Approximately 27,000 dunums, 35% of the Gaza Strip’s agricultural

land, can only be accessed under high personal risk, as Israeli attacks may

result in injury or death of civilians.

· 95% of the restricted area is arable land.

· After the evacuation of settlements (2005) and ‘Operation Cast Lead’

(2008-2009), the majority of Palestinian families living in the border areas

abandoned their land and homes.

At sea

· Palestinians are completely prevented from accessing 85% of the

Palestinian maritime areas recognised in the 1994 Gaza Jericho Agreement.

· Approximately 3,700 fishermen work under high personal risk every day

at sea.

· Approximately 8,200 persons work in the fishing industry.

· Approximately 65,000 persons, including individuals who work in the

fishing industry and their dependents, are affected by the ‘buffer zone’

restrictions at sea.

· The area near the coast is markedly over-fished.

» PCHR-Gaza: Israeli Buffer Zone Policies Typically Enforced with Live Fire– IMEMC News

Look at Shejaiya. I say that the neighborhood was wiped out merely for Israel's increased buffer Zone.

Islamic terrorism carries consequences.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Awww, now is time for your shot of vodka and continue your coma.

What country do you reside in?
The U.S, or Israel?
If it's Israel why are you on this forum?
If it's the U.S why do you never leave the Israel vs Palestine forum?
What a bunch of Zionist shitheads.

"Zionist shitheads" piss me off too. What kind of people make peace offerings to Palestinians, build a security fence to keep them in Israel & even grant them land concessions? Face it you Zionists, no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, ever treated them like those Zionist shitheads in Israel.

PCHR-Gaza: Israeli Buffer Zone Policies Typically Enforced with Live Fire
May 11, 2015 11:27 PM IMEMC Agencies Gaza Strip, Internal Unrest, News Report 0

11 MAY
11:27 PM
Following disengagement from the Gaza Strip in September 2005, Israel unilaterally and illegally established a so-called ‘buffer zone’, an area prohibited to Palestinians along the land and sea borders of the Gaza Strip. The precise area designated by Israel as a ‘buffer zone’ is not clear and this Israeli policy is typically enforced with live fire. The establishment of the ‘buffer zone’ is illegal under both Israeli and international law.Preventing Palestinians from accessing their lands and fishing areas violates numerous provisions of international human rights law, including the right to work, the right to an adequate standard of living, and the right to the highest attainable standard of health. Enforcing the ‘buffer zone’ through the use of live fire often results in, inter alia, the direct targeting of civilians and/or indiscriminate attacks, both of which constitute war crimes.

Following the Israeli offensive on the Gaza Strip in November 2012, a ceasefire agreement between Israel and Palestinian armed groups was brokered by the Egyptian government, which included terms related to access to land and sea. In an online statement on 25 February 2013, the Israeli Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT) declared that fishermen could now access the sea up to six nautical miles offshore, and that farmers could now access lands in the border area up to 100m from the border fence. However, both references have since been removed from the statement.

Then, on 21 March 2013, the Israeli forces’ spokesperson announced re-reducing the fishing area allowed for Palestinian fishermen from 6 nautical miles to 3 nautical miles. However, on 21 May 2013, Israeli authorities decided to allow fishermen to sail up to 6 nautical miles.

Following the latest Israeli offensive on the Gaza Strip (08 July – 26 August 2014), a ceasefire agreement between Israel and Palestinian armed groups was brokered by the Egyptian government, which allowed fishermen to sail up to 6 nautical miles. However, the Israeli naval forces have not allowed fishermen to sail up to this limit as all Israeli attacks have taken place within the 6-nautical- mile fishing area.

Dimensions

On land, inside Palestinian territory

Distance from the border fence, up to which access is permitted:

· Second Intifada (2000): 150 metres

· According to Israel (2010) :300 metres

· 22 November 2012: unclear parameters

· 21 March 2013: 300 metres

In reality, attacks against civilians take place anywhere upto approximately 1.5 kilometres inside the border fence. This constitutes approximately 17% of the total territory of the Gaza Strip.

At sea, off the coast of the Gaza Strip

Distance from the shore, up to which access is permitted:

· Oslo Accords (1994): 20 nautical miles (nm)

· Bertini Commitment (2002): 12 nm

· October 2006: 6 nm

· End of 2007 : 3 nm

· 22 November 2012: 6 nm

· 25 February 2013: unknown

· 12 March 2013: 3 nm

· 21 May 2013: 6 nm

In addition, access is consistently denied in the following areas:

· 1.5 nm in the north along the maritime boundary with Israel

· 1 nm in the south along the maritime boundary with Egypt

Impact

On land

· Approximately 27,000 dunums, 35% of the Gaza Strip’s agricultural

land, can only be accessed under high personal risk, as Israeli attacks may

result in injury or death of civilians.

· 95% of the restricted area is arable land.

· After the evacuation of settlements (2005) and ‘Operation Cast Lead’

(2008-2009), the majority of Palestinian families living in the border areas

abandoned their land and homes.

At sea

· Palestinians are completely prevented from accessing 85% of the

Palestinian maritime areas recognised in the 1994 Gaza Jericho Agreement.

· Approximately 3,700 fishermen work under high personal risk every day

at sea.

· Approximately 8,200 persons work in the fishing industry.

· Approximately 65,000 persons, including individuals who work in the

fishing industry and their dependents, are affected by the ‘buffer zone’

restrictions at sea.

· The area near the coast is markedly over-fished.

» PCHR-Gaza: Israeli Buffer Zone Policies Typically Enforced with Live Fire– IMEMC News

Look at Shejaiya. I say that the neighborhood was wiped out merely for Israel's increased buffer Zone.

Islamic terrorism carries consequences.

Look at the map.

 

[Hollie]

What country do you reside in?
The U.S, or Israel?
If it's Israel why are you on this forum?
If it's the U.S why do you never leave the Israel vs Palestine forum?
What a bunch of Zionist shitheads.

"Zionist shitheads" piss me off too. What kind of people make peace offerings to Palestinians, build a security fence to keep them in Israel & even grant them land concessions? Face it you Zionists, no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, ever treated them like those Zionist shitheads in Israel.

PCHR-Gaza: Israeli Buffer Zone Policies Typically Enforced with Live Fire
May 11, 2015 11:27 PM IMEMC Agencies Gaza Strip, Internal Unrest, News Report 0

11 MAY
11:27 PM
Following disengagement from the Gaza Strip in September 2005, Israel unilaterally and illegally established a so-called ‘buffer zone’, an area prohibited to Palestinians along the land and sea borders of the Gaza Strip. The precise area designated by Israel as a ‘buffer zone’ is not clear and this Israeli policy is typically enforced with live fire. The establishment of the ‘buffer zone’ is illegal under both Israeli and international law.Preventing Palestinians from accessing their lands and fishing areas violates numerous provisions of international human rights law, including the right to work, the right to an adequate standard of living, and the right to the highest attainable standard of health. Enforcing the ‘buffer zone’ through the use of live fire often results in, inter alia, the direct targeting of civilians and/or indiscriminate attacks, both of which constitute war crimes.

Following the Israeli offensive on the Gaza Strip in November 2012, a ceasefire agreement between Israel and Palestinian armed groups was brokered by the Egyptian government, which included terms related to access to land and sea. In an online statement on 25 February 2013, the Israeli Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT) declared that fishermen could now access the sea up to six nautical miles offshore, and that farmers could now access lands in the border area up to 100m from the border fence. However, both references have since been removed from the statement.

Then, on 21 March 2013, the Israeli forces’ spokesperson announced re-reducing the fishing area allowed for Palestinian fishermen from 6 nautical miles to 3 nautical miles. However, on 21 May 2013, Israeli authorities decided to allow fishermen to sail up to 6 nautical miles.

Following the latest Israeli offensive on the Gaza Strip (08 July – 26 August 2014), a ceasefire agreement between Israel and Palestinian armed groups was brokered by the Egyptian government, which allowed fishermen to sail up to 6 nautical miles. However, the Israeli naval forces have not allowed fishermen to sail up to this limit as all Israeli attacks have taken place within the 6-nautical- mile fishing area.

Dimensions

On land, inside Palestinian territory

Distance from the border fence, up to which access is permitted:

· Second Intifada (2000): 150 metres

· According to Israel (2010) :300 metres

· 22 November 2012: unclear parameters

· 21 March 2013: 300 metres

In reality, attacks against civilians take place anywhere upto approximately 1.5 kilometres inside the border fence. This constitutes approximately 17% of the total territory of the Gaza Strip.

At sea, off the coast of the Gaza Strip

Distance from the shore, up to which access is permitted:

· Oslo Accords (1994): 20 nautical miles (nm)

· Bertini Commitment (2002): 12 nm

· October 2006: 6 nm

· End of 2007 : 3 nm

· 22 November 2012: 6 nm

· 25 February 2013: unknown

· 12 March 2013: 3 nm

· 21 May 2013: 6 nm

In addition, access is consistently denied in the following areas:

· 1.5 nm in the north along the maritime boundary with Israel

· 1 nm in the south along the maritime boundary with Egypt

Impact

On land

· Approximately 27,000 dunums, 35% of the Gaza Strip’s agricultural

land, can only be accessed under high personal risk, as Israeli attacks may

result in injury or death of civilians.

· 95% of the restricted area is arable land.

· After the evacuation of settlements (2005) and ‘Operation Cast Lead’

(2008-2009), the majority of Palestinian families living in the border areas

abandoned their land and homes.

At sea

· Palestinians are completely prevented from accessing 85% of the

Palestinian maritime areas recognised in the 1994 Gaza Jericho Agreement.

· Approximately 3,700 fishermen work under high personal risk every day

at sea.

· Approximately 8,200 persons work in the fishing industry.

· Approximately 65,000 persons, including individuals who work in the

fishing industry and their dependents, are affected by the ‘buffer zone’

restrictions at sea.

· The area near the coast is markedly over-fished.

» PCHR-Gaza: Israeli Buffer Zone Policies Typically Enforced with Live Fire– IMEMC News

Look at Shejaiya. I say that the neighborhood was wiped out merely for Israel's increased buffer Zone.

Islamic terrorism carries consequences.

Look at the map.

Gee-had knows no political boundaries or passage of time.

 

[abi]

I have SO not left this thread.

Fair, but you have refused to answer direct questions that lead to your narrative coming undone.

There is absolutely no extra-biblical evidence of JC.

Just false, and I'll just let you do your own research here as I really don't care. The point though is still that Bethlehem existed in Palestine for centuries prior to when Christ is believed to have been born, k?

I am fairly curious as to why you did not address anything else in my post.

What now, Teddy? Be specific, what have I not addressed that is on topic? And watch the video again if you must. What claims did she make that you take issue with. If you follow the rules and stay on topic, I will stop thinking of you as a troll.

Do you deny that in 450 BC, Herodotus referred to the area between Egypt and Phoenicia as Palestine?

Do you further deny that around 340 BC, Aristotle refereed to the Dead Sea as "a lake in Palestine?

Come on now, this is simple stuff and it is verified historical fact. The denial must stop to even begin to discuss a solution. Let the narrative be damned and focus on what we know.

 

[Shusha]

Fair, but you have refused to answer direct questions that lead to your narrative coming undone.

If I have failed to answer a direct question, it was not intentional. Please re-direct me to your specific questions.

Just false, and I'll just let you do your own research here as I really don't care.

Research beyond Josephus, Pliny, Tacitus, Talmud and various fake artifacts? If you've got something, please point the way.

The point though is still that Bethlehem existed in Palestine for centuries prior to when Christ is believed to have been born, k?

And Bethlehem existed in Israel for centuries prior to that. The territory has had many names over thousands of years. None of that MATTERS. The fact that it was called Palestine in antiquity does not give Arabs the exclusive right to it in modern times.

 

[abi]

Research beyond Josephus, Pliny, Tacitus, Talmud and various fake artifacts? If you've got something, please point the way.

Now you want to tell me what and how to research? Chuckling aside, the historicity of Jesus is a settled matter among legitimate historians, at least as far as his existence. I am sure you can find a few who will argue that, but in academia, this is a settled matter. Beyond that, the Talmud you reference does not deny his existence. Quite the contrary in fact, as it's authors seem to be concerned with discrediting his actions. Again, even the Talmud does not deny his existence. But again, this is for academic purposes and when we discuss history in academia, religious texts are not used as sources.

And Bethlehem existed in Israel for centuries prior to that.

What historical reference are you basing that claim upon? See above about using religious text in these academic discussions and when you are done doing your honest research into this matter, you will find that that area was not "Israel" until the zionists captured it during the six-day war. That brings us all the way to 1967!

That said, Bethlehem was still not in Israel and she had returned power to the Palestinian National Authority in 1995 (kind of).

It has been called Palestine though, since at least 450 BC. This is historical fact.

The territory has had many names over thousands of years. None of that MATTERS.

It does matter as the majority of the zionists posting here claim that Palestine - and more importantly - Palestinians never existed.

The fact that it was called Palestine in antiquity does not give Arabs the exclusive right to it in modern times.

Thanks for making a point about what nobody has claimed.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Research beyond Josephus, Pliny, Tacitus, Talmud and various fake artifacts? If you've got something, please point the way.

Now you want to tell me what and how to research? Chuckling aside, the historicity of Jesus is a settled matter among legitimate historians, at least as far as his existence. I am sure you can find a few who will argue that, but in academia, this is a settled matter. Beyond that, the Talmud you reference does not deny his existence. Quite the contrary in fact, as it's authors seem to be concerned with discrediting his actions. Again, even the Talmud does not deny his existence. But again, this is for academic purposes and when we discuss history in academia, religious texts are not used as sources.

And Bethlehem existed in Israel for centuries prior to that.

What historical reference are you basing that claim upon? See above about using religious text in these academic discussions and when you are done doing your honest research into this matter, you will find that that area was not "Israel" until the zionists captured it during the six-day war. That brings us all the way to 1967!

That said, Bethlehem was still not in Israel and she had returned power to the Palestinian National Authority in 1995 (kind of).

It has been called Palestine though, since at least 450 BC. This is historical fact.

The territory has had many names over thousands of years. None of that MATTERS.

It does matter as the majority of the zionists posting here claim that Palestine - and more importantly - Palestinians never existed.

The fact that it was called Palestine in antiquity does not give Arabs the exclusive right to it in modern times.

Thanks for making a point about what nobody has claimed.

you will find that that area was not "Israel" until the zionists captured it during the six-day war. That brings us all the way to 1967!

How were Jews being born in "Palestine" 2000+ years ago?

 

[abi]

For someone who wanted honest and intelligent discussion, all I hear now is crickets . . . . doesn't seem very honest to me. Nor academic.

The crickets is what I have heard form you. All you have done so far is trolled. You call me out, I post specifically for you and Shusha, and then poof, gone, but were trolling on another thread, I noticed.

Goodness, gracious, sakes alive.

What those of us who were paying attention to the actual events in 1967 really need is some brainwashed young girl who wasn't even close to being alive at the time telling us what really went down.

She quoted Menachem Begin. It was his own words.

In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.

abi What happened to you? Why do you not answer honest questions that have been posed to you in this thread? In another thread you said you are not some kid that I can lie about. Well then defend your statements.

Again. What is your source of your claim that Judea was called Palestine centuries before Christ?

It was posted several times and explained in the video. What happened to you? Why do you not answer honest questions that have been posed to you in this thread?

The term "Jewish people" is no more confusing than the terms "French people", "Scots people", or "Catalan people". It is easily understood, except by those who wish to demonize Jews.

Not true at all and I have explained multiple times that using "the Jewish people" as they are a single entity who all support Israel is ludicrous.

How you think it was called Palestine centuries before Christ is mind boggling.

I showed this already. Are you still in denial?

Do you deny that in 450 BC, Herodotus referred to the area between Egypt and Phoenicia as Palestine?

Do you further deny that around 340 BC, Aristotle referred to the Dead Sea as "a lake in Palestine?"

You cant see whats wrong with this?

You don't see that one nation cannot give a group of people other people's land?

I have SO not left this thread.

But you were trolling another thread and simply haven't returned?

Israel has been Israel for thousands of years. Does the fact that it was called Israel in antiquity give Jewish people rights to that land?

I am still not ready to source religious texts, sorry.

How were Jews being born in "Palestine" 2000+ years ago?

Do I really need to explain this part too? Their parents grabbed a jug of wine about 9 months prior. Can you figure out the rest?

 

[teddyearp]

Abi, why are you quoting old posts that you have already ignored? I realized that what ever I reply to you here is going to be taken as trolling and/or off topic by you, so I am done.

Unless you wish to answer this one question. Do you believe the State of Israel should exist?