The Obama effect continues...No 'special relationship' between Britain and US: MPs

[CMike]

Bribart isn't a 'blog'.

You really have become quit the spinner lately Rav, I guess all our protests are indeed making you nervous.

Good.

Very good.

Wait a minute. You post an aritcle in which a British member of parliament says they need to reassess their relationship with the US because they got screwed over in the Iraqi war by trusting Bush and Cheney. You try and blame that on Obama, and he's the one spinning???? HAHAHAHAHAHA

For the liberals who have trouble readings

"President Barack Obama's administration was taking a "more pragmatic tone" towards Britain than had been the case for some previous US administrations."

 

[beowolfe]

Bribart isn't a 'blog'.

You really have become quit the spinner lately Rav, I guess all our protests are indeed making you nervous.

Good.

Very good.

Wait a minute. You post an aritcle in which a British member of parliament says they need to reassess their relationship with the US because they got screwed over in the Iraqi war by trusting Bush and Cheney. You try and blame that on Obama, and he's the one spinning???? HAHAHAHAHAHA

For the liberals who have trouble readings

"President Barack Obama's administration was taking a "more pragmatic tone" towards Britain than had been the case for some previous US administrations."

Dude......like I said. America, intellectually, ain't what it used to be. Let me try to explain. An 14 sentence article with the 3rd from the last sentence mentioning Obama's pragmatic and that is what you choose to highlight? You ignore all the reference to our screwing them over on Iraq and focus on this?

You missed the entire point of the article so you could 'hate on' the POTUS.

I guess I'll need to post the focus of the MP's rant:

Then premier Tony Blair stood shoulder-to-shoulder with president George W. Bush over the invasion despite a lack of wider international support.

"The perception that the British government was a subservient 'poodle' to the US administration leading up to the period of the invasion of Iraq and its aftermath is widespread both among the British public and overseas," it said.

 

[tigerbob]

i dont think that the bust issue is a statement of obama's disdain for england. did you know that the statuette was on loan to the bush administration? this was a typical pundit grab and blow out of proportion issue that modo ate up.

because i didnt go to the G20, i didnt meet anyone there. my family lives in the UK and i have 50 or so friends who live there. the overwhelming impression that i have from talking to them, on the phone, on facebook, and in person during the 3 months of cumulative time i have spent in london and bucks since obama's been president does not line up with your vast dissent perspective. they are relieved that he's our leader instead of bush, who is reviled there. despised.

instead, i would say brits approve of obama more than their own leadership, and more than americans do.

I'll respond to your post rather than Ravi's, since you're being reasonable and providing detail, and Ravi's being childish.

Perhaps you ought to read what I said again. I said a vast number of Brits are rather upset.

Rather upset.

If you know Brits at all (which I assume from the content of your post that you must) you will know that Brits being "rather upset" will not manifest itself in demonstrations, loud complaining and demands for retaliatory sniping.

In addition, I agree with you that most Brits dislike Bush intensely and see Obama as a positive change. That doesn't mean that all actions of his will meet with unanimous approval. It means that they are able to separate a single act which many of them find to be rather petty from their overall opinion of him. If they suddenly all thought he was a worse President than Bush just because he had returned a statue, that would be a good example of the British public being petty themselves, don't you think?

I hope that clarifies why I used the specific words I did, and why they should not be expanded upon to make any wider inference about the British public's view of Obama. Their view of Obama is one thing, their view of this single incident is an entirely separate matter.

Your comments about all your friends and family etc in England thinking Obama is a better POTUS than Bush do not surprise me at all. In fact, they tally with my own experience.

On the other hand, I have specifically discussed the issue of the returned bust with my friends and family in Britain, and have heard them say that they are rather annoyed that he chose to return it. This does not mean that they think he is a bad President.

Perhaps we are at crossed purposes here, which often happens on messageboards when one poster makes a comment about a specific incident and another poster takes it as indicative of a wider view.

As to approving of Obama more than their own leadership I don't doubt it. Labour has been in charge in Britain since 97, Gordon Brown was in charge of the economy as Chancellor before taking over as PM, and the overwhelming majority of the British public blame him for the financial turmoil of the last 24 months. Even without the last 24 months, Labour has been in power for 13 years now and it's difficult to go that long without providing plenty of ammo for your detractors. Just look at how many eggs are being thrown at Obama (rightly or wrongly) after a mere 14 months.

 

[Xenophon]

Dude......like I said. America, intellectually, ain't what it used to be.

Your posts certainly prove that all the time, just not the way you intended.

 

[Ravi]

I'd love to see the data that supports the notion that a vast number of Brits are rather upset over the Churchill statue.

But I suppose that is childish of me.

 

[Samson]

The great divider strikes again, as the Brits no longer think that something that was said for over 60 years is relivent anymore.

No 'special relationship' between Britain and US: MPs

President Barack Obama's administration was taking a "more pragmatic tone" towards Britain than had been the case for some previous US administrations.

I guess Gordo didn't like those DVDs Barry gave him.

Yeah, and no special realtionship exists between the Bank of England (the FED's largest initial investor) and the US Federal Reserve, either, right?

Why its almost as though the same elite running this nation, ALSO run England (note I did not say the UK?)

editec..........are you there?

Damn, I hope MI6 hasn't picked him up......

 

[MaggieMae]

The great divider strikes again, as the Brits no longer think that something that was said for over 60 years is relivent anymore.

No 'special relationship' between Britain and US: MPs

President Barack Obama's administration was taking a "more pragmatic tone" towards Britain than had been the case for some previous US administrations.

I guess Gordo didn't like those DVDs Barry gave him.

Breitbart (and you) apparently didn't comprehend the "message" there. If anything, the Brits are saying "We won't be suckered into another dumb war..." From the linked article:

"British and European politicians have been guilty of over-optimism about the extent of influence they have over the US," he said.

"We must be realistic and accept that globalisation, structural changes and shifts in geopolitical power will inevitably affect the UK-US relationship".

In the report itself, the committee of members of parliament said there were "many lessons to be learned" from Britain's approach to the United States over the 2003 Iraq war.

Then premier Tony Blair stood shoulder-to-shoulder with president George W. Bush over the invasion despite a lack of wider international support.

"The perception that the British government was a subservient 'poodle' to the US administration leading up to the period of the invasion of Iraq and its aftermath is widespread both among the British public and overseas," it said.

"This perception, whatever its relation to reality, is deeply damaging to the reputation and interests of the UK."

It also noted that President Barack Obama's administration was taking a "more pragmatic tone" towards Britain than had been the case for some previous US administrations.

A Foreign Office spokeswoman said in response to the report: "It doesn't really matter whether someone calls it the 'special relationship' or not.

"What matters is that the UK's relationship with the US is unique, and uniquely important to protecting our national security and promoting our national interest."

OOps.

 

[MaggieMae]

It's hard to take anything seriously that is posted on a rightwingloon's blog.

But I suppose we should give the wingnut credit for including the real problem.

In the report itself, the committee of members of parliament said there were "many lessons to be learned" from Britain's approach to the United States over the 2003 Iraq war.
Then premier Tony Blair stood shoulder-to-shoulder with president George W. Bush over the invasion despite a lack of wider international support.
"The perception that the British government was a subservient 'poodle' to the US administration leading up to the period of the invasion of Iraq and its aftermath is widespread both among the British public and overseas," it said.
"This perception, whatever its relation to reality, is deeply damaging to the reputation and interests of the UK."

Comprehension is not a strong point by the RW posters here.

 

[blu]

good, maybe we can stop paying for their military now.

 

[MaggieMae]

It's hard to take anything seriously that is posted on a rightwingloon's blog.

But I suppose we should give the wingnut credit for including the real problem.

In the report itself, the committee of members of parliament said there were "many lessons to be learned" from Britain's approach to the United States over the 2003 Iraq war.
Then premier Tony Blair stood shoulder-to-shoulder with president George W. Bush over the invasion despite a lack of wider international support.
"The perception that the British government was a subservient 'poodle' to the US administration leading up to the period of the invasion of Iraq and its aftermath is widespread both among the British public and overseas," it said.
"This perception, whatever its relation to reality, is deeply damaging to the reputation and interests of the UK."

I have no idea whether this is a right wing blog or not, but the piece seems factual and even handed.

It's all in how the words are treated, as usual. The right gloms onto the words "no more special relationship" while totally ignoring the finality of "[we] have a unique relationship" with the United States. There was absolutely NO dismissal of the United States as an ally in that piece, but leave it to the antagonists to pretend there was.

 

[MaggieMae]

Way to miss the point. There was a very telling anecdote about Blair's attitude towards Bush just before the invasion of Iraq. Blair thought that he could use the "special relationship" to control Bush. This is where this is coming from, it has nothing to do with Obama.

The Brits fucked up when they thought they could nudge the Bush Administration on the basis of the historical relationship. Now they're going for "pragmatism". Good move.

Actually, Tony Blair was getting strong-armed to go along with Bush/Cheney on the invasion. It wasn't until the last minute that he came on board because England had already been beaten back with their history of imperialism in the region. That phase of the lead up to the war is detailed at length in Woodward's book " Plan of Attack."

 

[MaggieMae]

I'm not too sure i care about what the Brits think anymore. They are a small & weak island nation that has meddled in other nations' internal affairs for hundreds of years. I still don't understand why so many nations allow them to meddle so much. They are pretty insignificant in today's World. Just a small island nation with no real power or authority. They do an awful lot of barking around the World but when it comes down to it they have almost no bite. That being said,this President's foreign policy is a bit helter skelter at this point. He seems to be tough and insulting towards our allies while at the same time bowing and apologizing to our enemies. It is pretty bizarre stuff. Who knows what's going on in the head of a Saul Alinsky trained "Community Organizer?" Personally i don't care what Britain thinks but at the same time i don't get this President's foreign policy either.

Great Britain is now only one country within the European Union. I know of no leader in their membership who has dismissed Obama as being insulting. Regarding our potential enemies, since bombing them and creating refugees of their citizens doesn't seem to work, perhaps Obama's philosophy is detente. After all, it worked for Reagan, didn't it?

 

[MaggieMae]

Who ultimately controls the USA?

The FED and it's stockholding banks?

Who owns the FED?

Do the research and you will discover that the bank of England was the FEDs largest original stockholder (though machinations with JP Morgan, incidently)

Is it still?

As far as I know, yes...though its stockholdings of various "American" banks that are the stockholders of the FED.

So...do we have a "special relationship"

What do you think?

We do live in a world where the GOLDEN RULE is in effect, do we not?

Oh gawd...please don't go there. You will only attract all the Prison Planet dwellers who yammer about the "new world order."

 

[Samson]

Who ultimately controls the USA?

The FED and it's stockholding banks?

Who owns the FED?

Do the research and you will discover that the bank of England was the FEDs largest original stockholder (though machinations with JP Morgan, incidently)

Is it still?

As far as I know, yes...though its stockholdings of various "American" banks that are the stockholders of the FED.

So...do we have a "special relationship"

What do you think?

We do live in a world where the GOLDEN RULE is in effect, do we not?

Oh gawd...please don't go there. You will only attract all the Prison Planet dwellers who yammer about the "new world order."

These Guys?

 

[MaggieMae]

Who ultimately controls the USA?

The FED and it's stockholding banks?

Who owns the FED?

Do the research and you will discover that the bank of England was the FEDs largest original stockholder (though machinations with JP Morgan, incidently)

Is it still?

As far as I know, yes...though its stockholdings of various "American" banks that are the stockholders of the FED.

So...do we have a "special relationship"

What do you think?

We do live in a world where the GOLDEN RULE is in effect, do we not?

that relationship works both ways, tec.

anyhow, china an japan are considerably more invested in the fed than england. are you talking about this end of wwII?!!

i think the abu dhabi's got a bigger stake than GB.

the bottom line is whether its a fund or a government, reserves put a lot of power in the issuer's hands, too. that the US has our issuance hedged all over the world is one of our trump cards, if anything.

Yeah, it does work both ways...much like the health of a parsite depends on the health of the host.

anyhow, china an japan are considerably more invested in the fed than england. are you talking about this end of wwII?!!

Are they?

I confess that I do not know which banks are now the primary stockholders of the twelve FEDERAL RESERVE BANKS, so you may be right.

I cannot attest to the accuracy of the following, and it is based on information that was written in 1996, so it is undoubtably no longer accurate (assuming it was to begin with), but consider....

[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]Who Owns the Federal Reserve Bank of New York?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Each of the twelve Federal Reserve Banks is organized into a corporation whose shares are sold to the commercial banks and thrifts operating within the Bank's district. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Shareholders elect six of the nine the board of directors for their regional Federal Reserve Bank as well as its president. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Mullins reported that the top eight stockholders of the New York Fed were, in order from largest to smallest as of 1983, Citibank, Chase Manhatten, Morgan Guaranty Trust, Chemical Bank, Manufacturers Hanover Trust, Bankers Trust Company, National Bank of North America, and the Bank of New York (Mullins, p. 179). [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Together, these banks owned about 63 percent of the New York Fed's outstanding stock. Mullins then showed that many of these banks are owned by about a dozen European banking organizations, mostly British, and most notably the Rothschild banking dynasty. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Through their American agents they are able to select the board of directors for the New York Fed and to direct U.S. monetary policy.[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]

Now I am, NOT saying that this is in and of itself, a bad thing.

But clearly the fudiciary responsibility of the FED is to it's OWNERS, and not necessarily to the AMERICAN PEOPLE.

This is the nature of the GOLDEN RULE and regardless of how we are told that the FED works for US, that is patent nonsense when push comes to shove (as we so clearly saw thanks to this BAILOUT),

We work for the monied interests of this world and not the other way around.

And the FED is where that rubber really meets the road, folks.



[/SIZE]

So who and how can do it better? When so much of our economy depends upon the global economy, I sure wouldn't trust individuals to each have a say in putting a monetary value on everything. Most, without understanding the dynamics, would call for a return to the gold standard. But of the 900 tons of gold bullion the NY Federal Reserve sits atop, the US only owns about 2%. The rest is owned by other countries.

 

[MaggieMae]

Yea this Hopey Changey Foreign Policy is pretty Helter Skelter. He acts tough and insulting towards our allies while at the same time bowing and apologizing to our enemies. Pretty bizarre stuff. Oh well,who really knows what's going on in the mind of a Saul Alinsky trained "Community Organizer?" Yikes!

You always repeat your, er, bizarre assumptions. Sorry, but it wasn't too profound the first time around. Again, when has Obama "insulted" our allies?

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Like i said,Britain has a big bark around the World but has almost no bite. They have become a weak & insignificant Island Nation living off their past power & influence. It still always amazes me that so many still care so much about what they think. I guess many are still stuck in the past when it comes to Great Britain. They really aren't what they used to be. All that being said,this President's 'Get tough and insulting towards our allies while bowing and apologizing to our enemies' Foreign Policy really is pretty bizarre.

 

[MaggieMae]

Did all the cons posting in this thread forget to read the article?

The MPs in question specifically blame this decision on Bush and the Iraq war.

And yet, somehow it's Obama's fault.

Soggy and Maple think it's right-on! (But any chance The Stupids have to wave their tattered NOBAMA flags, they jump aboard.)

 

[MaggieMae]

Let's see for 8 years under Pres. Bush they were very cooperative according to the article, now after Obama's first year, they no longer wish to be good friends anymore.

Here is a test. Do you see any correlation?

Here's a test for you.

Define Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc.

You have 10 minutes, after that, your grade will be dropped one half letter for each minute.

The Republicans/Conservatives who have abandoned the GOP are always looking for a new "name" for themselves. I think that fits to a "T" since it IS what they do. Consistently.

[I shall call them "hocs," or maybe hawks or hacks, but at least everyone will know who I mean.]

 

[MaggieMae]

Yea the whole 'Get tough on your allies/Lick your Enemies' Boots' Foreign Policy is getting to be pretty old. It looks like some bizarre Saul Alinsky concocted "Community Organizer" fantasy. Oh well,who really knows what's going on in the mind of an inexperienced "Community Organizer?"

Third time... Do you have one talking point per day or something?