The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

Unkotare

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"Chicago Tribune, August 19,1945 JAPS ASKED PEACE IN JAN. ENVOYS ON WAY -- TOKYO

Roosevelt Ignored M'Arthur Report On Nip Proposals

By Walter Trohan

Release of all censorship restrictions in the United States makes it possible to report that the first Japanese peace bid was relayed to the White House seven months ago. Two days before the late President Roosevelt left the last week in January for the Yalta conference with Prime Minister Churchill and Marshal Stalin he received a Japanese offer identical with the terms subsequently concluded by his successor, Harry S. Truman. MacArthur Relayed Message to F.D. The Jap offer, based on five separate overtures, was relayed to the White House by Gen. MacArthur in a 40-page communication. The American commander, who had just returned triumphantly to Bataan, urged negotiations on the basis of the Jap overtures. The offer, as relayed by MacArthur, contemplated abject surrender of everything but the person of the Emperor.

The suggestion was advanced from the Japanese quarters making the offer that the Emperor become a puppet in the hands of American forces. Two of the five Jap overtures were made through American channels and three through British channels. All came from responsible Japanese, acting for Emperor Hirohito.

General's Communication Dismissed

President Roosevelt dismissed the general's communication, which was studded with solemn references to the deity, after a casual reading with the remark, "MacArthur is our greatest general and our poorest politician." The MacArthur report was not even taken to Yalta. However, it was carefully preserved in the files of the high command and subsequently became the basis of the Truman-Attlee Potsdam declaration calling for surrender of Japan. This Jap peace bid was known to the Chicago Tribune and the Washington TimesHerald shortly after the MacArthur communication reached here. It was not published under the paper’s established policy of complete co-operation with the voluntary censorship code. Must Explain Delay Now that peace has been concluded on the basis of the terms MacArthur reported, high administration officials prepared to meet expected congressional demands for explanation of the delay. It was considered certain that from various quarters of Congress charges would be hurled that the delay cost thousands of American lives and casualties, particularly in such costly offensives as Iwo Jima and Okinawa. It was explained in high official circles that the bid relayed by MacArthur did not constitute an official offer in the same sense as the final offer which was presented through Japanese diplomatic channels at Bern and Stockholm last week for relay to the four major Allied powers. No negotiations were begun on the basis of the bid, it was said, because it was feared that if any were undertaken the Jap war lords, who were presumed to be ignorant of the feelers, would visit swift punishment on those making the offer. It was held possible that the war lords might even assassinate the Emperor and announce the son of heaven had fled the earth in a fury of indignation over the peace bid.

Defeat Seen Inevitable

Officials said it was felt by Mr. Roosevelt that the Japs were not ripe for peace, except for a small group, who were powerless to cope with the war lords, and that peace could not come until the Japs had suffered more. The Jap overtures were made on acknowledgment that defeat was inevitable and Japan had to choose the best way out of an unhappy dilemma -- domination of Asia by Russia or by the United States. The unofficial Jap peace brokers said the latter would be preferable by far.

Jap proposals to Gen. MacArthur contemplated:
1. Full surrender of all Jap forces on sea, in the air, at home, on island possessions and in occupied countries.
2. Surrender of all arms and munitions.
3. Occupation of the Jap homeland and island possessions by Allied troops under American direction. Would Give Up Territory
4. Jap relinquishment from Manchuria, Korea and Formosa as well as all territory seized during the war.
5. Regulation of Jap industry to halt present and future production of implements of war.
6. Turning over of any Japanese the United States might designate as war criminals.
7. Immediate release of all prisoners of war and internees in Japan proper and areas under Japanese control.

After the fall of Germany, the policy of unconditional surrender drew critical fire. In the Senate Senator White (R.) of Maine Capehart (R.) of Indiana took the lead in demanding that precise terms be given Japan and in asking whether peace feelers had not been received from the Nipponese. Terms Drafted in July In July the Tribune reported that a set of terms were being drafted for President Truman to take to Potsdam. Capehart hailed the reported terms on the floor of the Senate as a great contribution to universal peace. These terms, which were embodied in the Potsdam declaration, did not mention the disposition of the Emperor. Otherwise they were almost identical with the proposals contained in the MacArthur memorandum. Just before the Japanese surrender the Russian foreign commissar disclosed that the Japs had made peace overtures through Moscow asking that the Soviets mediate the war. These overtures were made in the middle of June through the Russian foreign office and also through a personal letter from Hirohito to Stalin. Both overtures were reported to the United States and Britain. "


 

Unkotare

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... The Killing of Americans does bother you, doesn’t it?
Always. The unnecessary slaughter of civilians doesn't bother you, does it? Neither one bothered the fucking scumbag fdr, that's for damn sure.
 

candycorn

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... The Killing of Americans does bother you, doesn’t it?
Always. The unnecessary slaughter of civilians doesn't bother you, does it? Neither one bothered the fucking scumbag fdr, that's for damn sure.
now you’re just being stupid. The Japs were never going to surrender—we saw that at IJ. So you’re full of shit on that front. We would have had to invade the homeland. Which would have meant many more Americans dying. That doesn’t bother you but it does bother most of us.
 

Unkotare

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"Chicago Tribune, August 19,1945 JAPS ASKED PEACE IN JAN. ENVOYS ON WAY -- TOKYO

Roosevelt Ignored M'Arthur Report On Nip Proposals

By Walter Trohan

Release of all censorship restrictions in the United States makes it possible to report that the first Japanese peace bid was relayed to the White House seven months ago. Two days before the late President Roosevelt left the last week in January for the Yalta conference with Prime Minister Churchill and Marshal Stalin he received a Japanese offer identical with the terms subsequently concluded by his successor, Harry S. Truman. MacArthur Relayed Message to F.D. The Jap offer, based on five separate overtures, was relayed to the White House by Gen. MacArthur in a 40-page communication. The American commander, who had just returned triumphantly to Bataan, urged negotiations on the basis of the Jap overtures. The offer, as relayed by MacArthur, contemplated abject surrender of everything but the person of the Emperor.

The suggestion was advanced from the Japanese quarters making the offer that the Emperor become a puppet in the hands of American forces. Two of the five Jap overtures were made through American channels and three through British channels. All came from responsible Japanese, acting for Emperor Hirohito.

General's Communication Dismissed

President Roosevelt dismissed the general's communication, which was studded with solemn references to the deity, after a casual reading with the remark, "MacArthur is our greatest general and our poorest politician." The MacArthur report was not even taken to Yalta. However, it was carefully preserved in the files of the high command and subsequently became the basis of the Truman-Attlee Potsdam declaration calling for surrender of Japan. This Jap peace bid was known to the Chicago Tribune and the Washington TimesHerald shortly after the MacArthur communication reached here. It was not published under the paper’s established policy of complete co-operation with the voluntary censorship code. Must Explain Delay Now that peace has been concluded on the basis of the terms MacArthur reported, high administration officials prepared to meet expected congressional demands for explanation of the delay. It was considered certain that from various quarters of Congress charges would be hurled that the delay cost thousands of American lives and casualties, particularly in such costly offensives as Iwo Jima and Okinawa. It was explained in high official circles that the bid relayed by MacArthur did not constitute an official offer in the same sense as the final offer which was presented through Japanese diplomatic channels at Bern and Stockholm last week for relay to the four major Allied powers. No negotiations were begun on the basis of the bid, it was said, because it was feared that if any were undertaken the Jap war lords, who were presumed to be ignorant of the feelers, would visit swift punishment on those making the offer. It was held possible that the war lords might even assassinate the Emperor and announce the son of heaven had fled the earth in a fury of indignation over the peace bid.

Defeat Seen Inevitable

Officials said it was felt by Mr. Roosevelt that the Japs were not ripe for peace, except for a small group, who were powerless to cope with the war lords, and that peace could not come until the Japs had suffered more. The Jap overtures were made on acknowledgment that defeat was inevitable and Japan had to choose the best way out of an unhappy dilemma -- domination of Asia by Russia or by the United States. The unofficial Jap peace brokers said the latter would be preferable by far.

Jap proposals to Gen. MacArthur contemplated:
1. Full surrender of all Jap forces on sea, in the air, at home, on island possessions and in occupied countries.
2. Surrender of all arms and munitions.
3. Occupation of the Jap homeland and island possessions by Allied troops under American direction. Would Give Up Territory
4. Jap relinquishment from Manchuria, Korea and Formosa as well as all territory seized during the war.
5. Regulation of Jap industry to halt present and future production of implements of war.
6. Turning over of any Japanese the United States might designate as war criminals.
7. Immediate release of all prisoners of war and internees in Japan proper and areas under Japanese control.

After the fall of Germany, the policy of unconditional surrender drew critical fire. In the Senate Senator White (R.) of Maine Capehart (R.) of Indiana took the lead in demanding that precise terms be given Japan and in asking whether peace feelers had not been received from the Nipponese. Terms Drafted in July In July the Tribune reported that a set of terms were being drafted for President Truman to take to Potsdam. Capehart hailed the reported terms on the floor of the Senate as a great contribution to universal peace. These terms, which were embodied in the Potsdam declaration, did not mention the disposition of the Emperor. Otherwise they were almost identical with the proposals contained in the MacArthur memorandum. Just before the Japanese surrender the Russian foreign commissar disclosed that the Japs had made peace overtures through Moscow asking that the Soviets mediate the war. These overtures were made in the middle of June through the Russian foreign office and also through a personal letter from Hirohito to Stalin. Both overtures were reported to the United States and Britain. "


 

Mac-7

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We were perfectly right in nuking Nagasaki...my only regret is that we didn’t dust Tokyo on the way back.
I would not go that far

the japs were not bad people underneath the bushido bs and I’m glad we didnt kill more than we had to
Hind sight is 20/20 but one wonders if we could have avoided the battle of Iwo Jima which was just a few months before. We lost thousands of men there.
We could have avoided that battle, but fdr didn’t want to.
Bullshit.
there are plenty of historians who disagree with the ones you offer
American military commanders of that time recognized the unnecessary, immoral nature of the weapon that truman used to slaughter civilians just as fdr wanted. MacArthur informed fdr in significant detail before the Yalta Conference that overtures to surrender were being proffered, but fdr ordered him to ignore them. This is well before Okinawa. The scumbag fdr wanted blood and he would have it; American as well as Japanese.
Your imagination is running away with you.
...
I have provided documentation.
You mean opinion

...
I mean documentation.
No thats a crackpot historians opinion
A source is not an opinion.
Its your source and you are welcome to accept it

but its only an opinion that I do not share
 

Unkotare

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"Chicago Tribune, August 19,1945 JAPS ASKED PEACE IN JAN. ENVOYS ON WAY -- TOKYO

Roosevelt Ignored M'Arthur Report On Nip Proposals

By Walter Trohan

Release of all censorship restrictions in the United States makes it possible to report that the first Japanese peace bid was relayed to the White House seven months ago. Two days before the late President Roosevelt left the last week in January for the Yalta conference with Prime Minister Churchill and Marshal Stalin he received a Japanese offer identical with the terms subsequently concluded by his successor, Harry S. Truman. MacArthur Relayed Message to F.D. The Jap offer, based on five separate overtures, was relayed to the White House by Gen. MacArthur in a 40-page communication. The American commander, who had just returned triumphantly to Bataan, urged negotiations on the basis of the Jap overtures. The offer, as relayed by MacArthur, contemplated abject surrender of everything but the person of the Emperor.

The suggestion was advanced from the Japanese quarters making the offer that the Emperor become a puppet in the hands of American forces. Two of the five Jap overtures were made through American channels and three through British channels. All came from responsible Japanese, acting for Emperor Hirohito.

General's Communication Dismissed

President Roosevelt dismissed the general's communication, which was studded with solemn references to the deity, after a casual reading with the remark, "MacArthur is our greatest general and our poorest politician." The MacArthur report was not even taken to Yalta. However, it was carefully preserved in the files of the high command and subsequently became the basis of the Truman-Attlee Potsdam declaration calling for surrender of Japan.

This Jap peace bid was known to the Chicago Tribune and the Washington TimesHerald shortly after the MacArthur communication reached here. It was not published under the paper’s established policy of complete co-operation with the voluntary censorship code.

Must Explain Delay

Now that peace has been concluded on the basis of the terms MacArthur reported, high administration officials prepared to meet expected congressional demands for explanation of the delay. It was considered certain that from various quarters of Congress charges would be hurled that the delay cost thousands of American lives and casualties, particularly in such costly offensives as Iwo Jima and Okinawa. It was explained in high official circles that the bid relayed by MacArthur did not constitute an official offer in the same sense as the final offer which was presented through Japanese diplomatic channels at Bern and Stockholm last week for relay to the four major Allied powers. No negotiations were begun on the basis of the bid, it was said, because it was feared that if any were undertaken the Jap war lords, who were presumed to be ignorant of the feelers, would visit swift punishment on those making the offer. It was held possible that the war lords might even assassinate the Emperor and announce the son of heaven had fled the earth in a fury of indignation over the peace bid.

Defeat Seen Inevitable

Officials said it was felt by Mr. Roosevelt that the Japs were not ripe for peace, except for a small group, who were powerless to cope with the war lords, and that peace could not come until the Japs had suffered more. The Jap overtures were made on acknowledgment that defeat was inevitable and Japan had to choose the best way out of an unhappy dilemma -- domination of Asia by Russia or by the United States. The unofficial Jap peace brokers said the latter would be preferable by far.

Jap proposals to Gen. MacArthur contemplated:
1. Full surrender of all Jap forces on sea, in the air, at home, on island possessions and in occupied countries.
2. Surrender of all arms and munitions.
3. Occupation of the Jap homeland and island possessions by Allied troops under American direction. Would Give Up Territory
4. Jap relinquishment from Manchuria, Korea and Formosa as well as all territory seized during the war.
5. Regulation of Jap industry to halt present and future production of implements of war.
6. Turning over of any Japanese the United States might designate as war criminals.
7. Immediate release of all prisoners of war and internees in Japan proper and areas under Japanese control.

After the fall of Germany, the policy of unconditional surrender drew critical fire. In the Senate Senator White (R.) of Maine Capehart (R.) of Indiana took the lead in demanding that precise terms be given Japan and in asking whether peace feelers had not been received from the Nipponese. Terms Drafted in July In July the Tribune reported that a set of terms were being drafted for President Truman to take to Potsdam. Capehart hailed the reported terms on the floor of the Senate as a great contribution to universal peace. These terms, which were embodied in the Potsdam declaration, did not mention the disposition of the Emperor. Otherwise they were almost identical with the proposals contained in the MacArthur memorandum. Just before the Japanese surrender the Russian foreign commissar disclosed that the Japs had made peace overtures through Moscow asking that the Soviets mediate the war. These overtures were made in the middle of June through the Russian foreign office and also through a personal letter from Hirohito to Stalin. Both overtures were reported to the United States and Britain. "


 

Unkotare

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We were perfectly right in nuking Nagasaki...my only regret is that we didn’t dust Tokyo on the way back.
I would not go that far

the japs were not bad people underneath the bushido bs and I’m glad we didnt kill more than we had to
Hind sight is 20/20 but one wonders if we could have avoided the battle of Iwo Jima which was just a few months before. We lost thousands of men there.
We could have avoided that battle, but fdr didn’t want to.
Bullshit.
there are plenty of historians who disagree with the ones you offer
American military commanders of that time recognized the unnecessary, immoral nature of the weapon that truman used to slaughter civilians just as fdr wanted. MacArthur informed fdr in significant detail before the Yalta Conference that overtures to surrender were being proffered, but fdr ordered him to ignore them. This is well before Okinawa. The scumbag fdr wanted blood and he would have it; American as well as Japanese.
Your imagination is running away with you.
...
I have provided documentation.
You mean opinion

...
I mean documentation.
No thats a crackpot historians opinion
A source is not an opinion.
Its your source and you are welcome to accept it

but its only an opinion that I do not share
You lack the courage and intelligence to even consider things may not be the simple narrative you’ve always needed to believe. That’s not being a man, not being an honest person.
 

Mac-7

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We were perfectly right in nuking Nagasaki...my only regret is that we didn’t dust Tokyo on the way back.
I would not go that far

the japs were not bad people underneath the bushido bs and I’m glad we didnt kill more than we had to
Hind sight is 20/20 but one wonders if we could have avoided the battle of Iwo Jima which was just a few months before. We lost thousands of men there.
We could have avoided that battle, but fdr didn’t want to.
Bullshit.
there are plenty of historians who disagree with the ones you offer
American military commanders of that time recognized the unnecessary, immoral nature of the weapon that truman used to slaughter civilians just as fdr wanted. MacArthur informed fdr in significant detail before the Yalta Conference that overtures to surrender were being proffered, but fdr ordered him to ignore them. This is well before Okinawa. The scumbag fdr wanted blood and he would have it; American as well as Japanese.
Your imagination is running away with you.
...
I have provided documentation.
You mean opinion

...
I mean documentation.
No thats a crackpot historians opinion
A source is not an opinion.
Its your source and you are welcome to accept it

but its only an opinion that I do not share
You lack the courage and intelligence to even consider things may not be the simple narrative you’ve always needed to believe. That’s not being a man, not being an honest person.
You are a sore loser

i have considered the history you propose, not just by you but other revisionists, and rejected it
 

candycorn

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We were perfectly right in nuking Nagasaki...my only regret is that we didn’t dust Tokyo on the way back.
I would not go that far

the japs were not bad people underneath the bushido bs and I’m glad we didnt kill more than we had to
Hind sight is 20/20 but one wonders if we could have avoided the battle of Iwo Jima which was just a few months before. We lost thousands of men there.
We could have avoided that battle, but fdr didn’t want to.
Bullshit.
there are plenty of historians who disagree with the ones you offer
American military commanders of that time recognized the unnecessary, immoral nature of the weapon that truman used to slaughter civilians just as fdr wanted. MacArthur informed fdr in significant detail before the Yalta Conference that overtures to surrender were being proffered, but fdr ordered him to ignore them. This is well before Okinawa. The scumbag fdr wanted blood and he would have it; American as well as Japanese.
Your imagination is running away with you.
...
I have provided documentation.
You mean opinion

...
I mean documentation.
No thats a crackpot historians opinion
A source is not an opinion.
Its your source and you are welcome to accept it

but its only an opinion that I do not share
You lack the courage and intelligence to even consider things may not be the simple narrative you’ve always needed to believe. That’s not being a man, not being an honest person.
Yawn.

If the Japanese wanted to surrender, all they had to do was lay down their arms. Instead, in March of 1945--about 5 months before we nuked their sorry asses, they killed thousands of Americans at Iwo Jima.

Your fantasy doesn't match reality. You're concocting some moronic and false narrative that soothes some sort of bloodlust you have. Thats not being a man....thats not being an honest person.
 

JoeB131

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Hind sight is 20/20 but one wonders if we could have avoided the battle of Iwo Jima which was just a few months before. We lost thousands of men there.
Probably not. The reason why we wanted to take it was to have a forward base to bomb Japan from. The Japanese knew this as well, which is why they fought so viciously to defend it.
 

JoeB131

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American military commanders of that time recognized the unnecessary, immoral nature of the weapon that truman used to slaughter civilians just as fdr wanted. MacArthur informed fdr in significant detail before the Yalta Conference that overtures to surrender were being proffered, but fdr ordered him to ignore them. This is well before Okinawa. The scumbag fdr wanted blood and he would have it; American as well as Japanese.
Okay, reality check. The problem with any of those "surrender" offers is that they were "Conditional" on Japan keeping their Emperor and own government and retaining territories they had previously conquered in China and Korea. This was unacceptable to the allies (Not just FDR) for the obvious reasons.

We gave Germany a "conditional" surrender after WWI, and a few years later, guys like Ludendorf (one of the Co-founders of the Nazi Party) were spreading stories of a "Stabbed in the Back" myth.

The thing that guys like you don't get is that to the allies, the A-bomb was just another weapon. The thing is, all those "commanders" like Ike (who I normally respect) only voiced their "concerns" a decade after the war, when both sides were building stockpiles and we were teaching kids to "Duck and cover". (I'd laugh at this notion, but we are in week three of "Social distancing", which people will laugh at in 20 years.)

 

JoeB131

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"Take, for example, Admiral William Leahy, White House chief of staff and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the war. Leahy wrote in his 1950 memoirs that "the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender." Moreover, Leahy continued, "in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children." "
Did he resign in 1945 in protest? Nope. Oh, after the war, he had qualms.

"President Dwight Eisenhower, the Allied commander in Europe during World War II, recalled in 1963,
1963. 18 years later. After he had built a huge nuclear arsenal and people were terrified of nuclear annihilation.
Here's the thing. The Japanese got a lot more mercy than they deserved. They went on a genocidal rampage across Asia and are STILL hated in much of Asia today. More than the western powers are.
 

JoeB131

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"Chicago Tribune, August 19,1945 JAPS ASKED PEACE IN JAN. ENVOYS ON WAY -- TOKYO

Roosevelt Ignored M'Arthur Report On Nip Proposals

By Walter Trohan

Release of all censorship restrictions in the United States makes it possible to report that the first Japanese peace bid was relayed to the White House seven months ago. Two days before the late President Roosevelt left the last week in January for the Yalta conference with Prime Minister Churchill and Marshal Stalin he received a Japanese offer identical with the terms subsequently concluded by his successor, Harry S. Truman. MacArthur Relayed Message to F.D. The Jap offer, based on five separate overtures, was relayed to the White House by Gen. MacArthur in a 40-page communication. The American commander, who had just returned triumphantly to Bataan, urged negotiations on the basis of the Jap overtures. The offer, as relayed by MacArthur, contemplated abject surrender of everything but the person of the Emperor.

The suggestion was advanced from the Japanese quarters making the offer that the Emperor become a puppet in the hands of American forces. Two of the five Jap overtures were made through American channels and three through British channels. All came from responsible Japanese, acting for Emperor Hirohito.

General's Communication Dismissed

President Roosevelt dismissed the general's communication, which was studded with solemn references to the deity, after a casual reading with the remark, "MacArthur is our greatest general and our poorest politician." The MacArthur report was not even taken to Yalta. However, it was carefully preserved in the files of the high command and subsequently became the basis of the Truman-Attlee Potsdam declaration calling for surrender of Japan. This Jap peace bid was known to the Chicago Tribune and the Washington TimesHerald shortly after the MacArthur communication reached here. It was not published under the paper’s established policy of complete co-operation with the voluntary censorship code. Must Explain Delay Now that peace has been concluded on the basis of the terms MacArthur reported, high administration officials prepared to meet expected congressional demands for explanation of the delay. It was considered certain that from various quarters of Congress charges would be hurled that the delay cost thousands of American lives and casualties, particularly in such costly offensives as Iwo Jima and Okinawa. It was explained in high official circles that the bid relayed by MacArthur did not constitute an official offer in the same sense as the final offer which was presented through Japanese diplomatic channels at Bern and Stockholm last week for relay to the four major Allied powers. No negotiations were begun on the basis of the bid, it was said, because it was feared that if any were undertaken the Jap war lords, who were presumed to be ignorant of the feelers, would visit swift punishment on those making the offer. It was held possible that the war lords might even assassinate the Emperor and announce the son of heaven had fled the earth in a fury of indignation over the peace bid.

Defeat Seen Inevitable

Officials said it was felt by Mr. Roosevelt that the Japs were not ripe for peace, except for a small group, who were powerless to cope with the war lords, and that peace could not come until the Japs had suffered more. The Jap overtures were made on acknowledgment that defeat was inevitable and Japan had to choose the best way out of an unhappy dilemma -- domination of Asia by Russia or by the United States. The unofficial Jap peace brokers said the latter would be preferable by far.

Jap proposals to Gen. MacArthur contemplated:
1. Full surrender of all Jap forces on sea, in the air, at home, on island possessions and in occupied countries.
2. Surrender of all arms and munitions.
3. Occupation of the Jap homeland and island possessions by Allied troops under American direction. Would Give Up Territory
4. Jap relinquishment from Manchuria, Korea and Formosa as well as all territory seized during the war.
5. Regulation of Jap industry to halt present and future production of implements of war.
6. Turning over of any Japanese the United States might designate as war criminals.
7. Immediate release of all prisoners of war and internees in Japan proper and areas under Japanese control.

After the fall of Germany, the policy of unconditional surrender drew critical fire. In the Senate Senator White (R.) of Maine Capehart (R.) of Indiana took the lead in demanding that precise terms be given Japan and in asking whether peace feelers had not been received from the Nipponese. Terms Drafted in July In July the Tribune reported that a set of terms were being drafted for President Truman to take to Potsdam. Capehart hailed the reported terms on the floor of the Senate as a great contribution to universal peace. These terms, which were embodied in the Potsdam declaration, did not mention the disposition of the Emperor. Otherwise they were almost identical with the proposals contained in the MacArthur memorandum. Just before the Japanese surrender the Russian foreign commissar disclosed that the Japs had made peace overtures through Moscow asking that the Soviets mediate the war. These overtures were made in the middle of June through the Russian foreign office and also through a personal letter from Hirohito to Stalin. Both overtures were reported to the United States and Britain. "


Yawn... Let's not forget, MacArthur was the guy who almost started WWIII in Korea, because he thought he knew more than the President and had to be fired.

MacArthuer was also the guy who ordered invasions of Islands with no strategic value, often with poor intelligence, that were bloodbaths for both sides.
 

Unkotare

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We were perfectly right in nuking Nagasaki...my only regret is that we didn’t dust Tokyo on the way back.
I would not go that far

the japs were not bad people underneath the bushido bs and I’m glad we didnt kill more than we had to
Hind sight is 20/20 but one wonders if we could have avoided the battle of Iwo Jima which was just a few months before. We lost thousands of men there.
We could have avoided that battle, but fdr didn’t want to.
Bullshit.
there are plenty of historians who disagree with the ones you offer
American military commanders of that time recognized the unnecessary, immoral nature of the weapon that truman used to slaughter civilians just as fdr wanted. MacArthur informed fdr in significant detail before the Yalta Conference that overtures to surrender were being proffered, but fdr ordered him to ignore them. This is well before Okinawa. The scumbag fdr wanted blood and he would have it; American as well as Japanese.
Your imagination is running away with you.
...
I have provided documentation.
You mean opinion

...
I mean documentation.
No thats a crackpot historians opinion
A source is not an opinion.
Its your source and you are welcome to accept it

but its only an opinion that I do not share
You lack the courage and intelligence to even consider things may not be the simple narrative you’ve always needed to believe. That’s not being a man, not being an honest person.
You are a sore loser

i have considered the history you propose, not just by you but other revisionists, and rejected it
Liar. You haven’t considered anything. You have put your fingers in your ears and cried “LALALA!” Nothing more.
 

Unkotare

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"Chicago Tribune, August 19,1945 JAPS ASKED PEACE IN JAN. ENVOYS ON WAY -- TOKYO

Roosevelt Ignored M'Arthur Report On Nip Proposals

By Walter Trohan

Release of all censorship restrictions in the United States makes it possible to report that the first Japanese peace bid was relayed to the White House seven months ago. Two days before the late President Roosevelt left the last week in January for the Yalta conference with Prime Minister Churchill and Marshal Stalin he received a Japanese offer identical with the terms subsequently concluded by his successor, Harry S. Truman. MacArthur Relayed Message to F.D. The Jap offer, based on five separate overtures, was relayed to the White House by Gen. MacArthur in a 40-page communication. The American commander, who had just returned triumphantly to Bataan, urged negotiations on the basis of the Jap overtures. The offer, as relayed by MacArthur, contemplated abject surrender of everything but the person of the Emperor.

The suggestion was advanced from the Japanese quarters making the offer that the Emperor become a puppet in the hands of American forces. Two of the five Jap overtures were made through American channels and three through British channels. All came from responsible Japanese, acting for Emperor Hirohito.

General's Communication Dismissed

President Roosevelt dismissed the general's communication, which was studded with solemn references to the deity, after a casual reading with the remark, "MacArthur is our greatest general and our poorest politician." The MacArthur report was not even taken to Yalta. However, it was carefully preserved in the files of the high command and subsequently became the basis of the Truman-Attlee Potsdam declaration calling for surrender of Japan.

This Jap peace bid was known to the Chicago Tribune and the Washington TimesHerald shortly after the MacArthur communication reached here. It was not published under the paper’s established policy of complete co-operation with the voluntary censorship code.

Must Explain Delay

Now that peace has been concluded on the basis of the terms MacArthur reported, high administration officials prepared to meet expected congressional demands for explanation of the delay. It was considered certain that from various quarters of Congress charges would be hurled that the delay cost thousands of American lives and casualties, particularly in such costly offensives as Iwo Jima and Okinawa. It was explained in high official circles that the bid relayed by MacArthur did not constitute an official offer in the same sense as the final offer which was presented through Japanese diplomatic channels at Bern and Stockholm last week for relay to the four major Allied powers. No negotiations were begun on the basis of the bid, it was said, because it was feared that if any were undertaken the Jap war lords, who were presumed to be ignorant of the feelers, would visit swift punishment on those making the offer. It was held possible that the war lords might even assassinate the Emperor and announce the son of heaven had fled the earth in a fury of indignation over the peace bid.

Defeat Seen Inevitable

Officials said it was felt by Mr. Roosevelt that the Japs were not ripe for peace, except for a small group, who were powerless to cope with the war lords, and that peace could not come until the Japs had suffered more. The Jap overtures were made on acknowledgment that defeat was inevitable and Japan had to choose the best way out of an unhappy dilemma -- domination of Asia by Russia or by the United States. The unofficial Jap peace brokers said the latter would be preferable by far.

Jap proposals to Gen. MacArthur contemplated:
1. Full surrender of all Jap forces on sea, in the air, at home, on island possessions and in occupied countries.
2. Surrender of all arms and munitions.
3. Occupation of the Jap homeland and island possessions by Allied troops under American direction. Would Give Up Territory
4. Jap relinquishment from Manchuria, Korea and Formosa as well as all territory seized during the war.
5. Regulation of Jap industry to halt present and future production of implements of war.
6. Turning over of any Japanese the United States might designate as war criminals.
7. Immediate release of all prisoners of war and internees in Japan proper and areas under Japanese control.

After the fall of Germany, the policy of unconditional surrender drew critical fire. In the Senate Senator White (R.) of Maine Capehart (R.) of Indiana took the lead in demanding that precise terms be given Japan and in asking whether peace feelers had not been received from the Nipponese. Terms Drafted in July In July the Tribune reported that a set of terms were being drafted for President Truman to take to Potsdam. Capehart hailed the reported terms on the floor of the Senate as a great contribution to universal peace. These terms, which were embodied in the Potsdam declaration, did not mention the disposition of the Emperor. Otherwise they were almost identical with the proposals contained in the MacArthur memorandum. Just before the Japanese surrender the Russian foreign commissar disclosed that the Japs had made peace overtures through Moscow asking that the Soviets mediate the war. These overtures were made in the middle of June through the Russian foreign office and also through a personal letter from Hirohito to Stalin. Both overtures were reported to the United States and Britain. "


 

Mac-7

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We were perfectly right in nuking Nagasaki...my only regret is that we didn’t dust Tokyo on the way back.
I would not go that far

the japs were not bad people underneath the bushido bs and I’m glad we didnt kill more than we had to
Hind sight is 20/20 but one wonders if we could have avoided the battle of Iwo Jima which was just a few months before. We lost thousands of men there.
We could have avoided that battle, but fdr didn’t want to.
Bullshit.
there are plenty of historians who disagree with the ones you offer
American military commanders of that time recognized the unnecessary, immoral nature of the weapon that truman used to slaughter civilians just as fdr wanted. MacArthur informed fdr in significant detail before the Yalta Conference that overtures to surrender were being proffered, but fdr ordered him to ignore them. This is well before Okinawa. The scumbag fdr wanted blood and he would have it; American as well as Japanese.
Your imagination is running away with you.
...
I have provided documentation.
You mean opinion

...
I mean documentation.
No thats a crackpot historians opinion
A source is not an opinion.
Its your source and you are welcome to accept it

but its only an opinion that I do not share
You lack the courage and intelligence to even consider things may not be the simple narrative you’ve always needed to believe. That’s not being a man, not being an honest person.
You are a sore loser

i have considered the history you propose, not just by you but other revisionists, and rejected it
Liar. You haven’t considered anything. You have put your fingers in your ears and cried “LALALA!” Nothing more.
Your opinion is unconvincing beside the fact that japan did not surrender till after the bombs were dropped
 

Unkotare

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We were perfectly right in nuking Nagasaki...my only regret is that we didn’t dust Tokyo on the way back.
I would not go that far

the japs were not bad people underneath the bushido bs and I’m glad we didnt kill more than we had to
Hind sight is 20/20 but one wonders if we could have avoided the battle of Iwo Jima which was just a few months before. We lost thousands of men there.
We could have avoided that battle, but fdr didn’t want to.
Bullshit.
there are plenty of historians who disagree with the ones you offer
American military commanders of that time recognized the unnecessary, immoral nature of the weapon that truman used to slaughter civilians just as fdr wanted. MacArthur informed fdr in significant detail before the Yalta Conference that overtures to surrender were being proffered, but fdr ordered him to ignore them. This is well before Okinawa. The scumbag fdr wanted blood and he would have it; American as well as Japanese.
Your imagination is running away with you.
...
I have provided documentation.
You mean opinion

...
I mean documentation.
No thats a crackpot historians opinion
A source is not an opinion.
Its your source and you are welcome to accept it

but its only an opinion that I do not share
You lack the courage and intelligence to even consider things may not be the simple narrative you’ve always needed to believe. That’s not being a man, not being an honest person.
You are a sore loser

i have considered the history you propose, not just by you but other revisionists, and rejected it
Liar. You haven’t considered anything. You have put your fingers in your ears and cried “LALALA!” Nothing more.
Your opinion is unconvincing beside the fact that japan did not surrender till after the bombs were dropped
I have provided documentation. YOU have only the “opinion” of an intellectual coward.
 

RetiredGySgt

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"Chicago Tribune, August 19,1945 JAPS ASKED PEACE IN JAN. ENVOYS ON WAY -- TOKYO

Roosevelt Ignored M'Arthur Report On Nip Proposals

By Walter Trohan

Release of all censorship restrictions in the United States makes it possible to report that the first Japanese peace bid was relayed to the White House seven months ago. Two days before the late President Roosevelt left the last week in January for the Yalta conference with Prime Minister Churchill and Marshal Stalin he received a Japanese offer identical with the terms subsequently concluded by his successor, Harry S. Truman. MacArthur Relayed Message to F.D. The Jap offer, based on five separate overtures, was relayed to the White House by Gen. MacArthur in a 40-page communication. The American commander, who had just returned triumphantly to Bataan, urged negotiations on the basis of the Jap overtures. The offer, as relayed by MacArthur, contemplated abject surrender of everything but the person of the Emperor.

The suggestion was advanced from the Japanese quarters making the offer that the Emperor become a puppet in the hands of American forces. Two of the five Jap overtures were made through American channels and three through British channels. All came from responsible Japanese, acting for Emperor Hirohito.

General's Communication Dismissed

President Roosevelt dismissed the general's communication, which was studded with solemn references to the deity, after a casual reading with the remark, "MacArthur is our greatest general and our poorest politician." The MacArthur report was not even taken to Yalta. However, it was carefully preserved in the files of the high command and subsequently became the basis of the Truman-Attlee Potsdam declaration calling for surrender of Japan. This Jap peace bid was known to the Chicago Tribune and the Washington TimesHerald shortly after the MacArthur communication reached here. It was not published under the paper’s established policy of complete co-operation with the voluntary censorship code. Must Explain Delay Now that peace has been concluded on the basis of the terms MacArthur reported, high administration officials prepared to meet expected congressional demands for explanation of the delay. It was considered certain that from various quarters of Congress charges would be hurled that the delay cost thousands of American lives and casualties, particularly in such costly offensives as Iwo Jima and Okinawa. It was explained in high official circles that the bid relayed by MacArthur did not constitute an official offer in the same sense as the final offer which was presented through Japanese diplomatic channels at Bern and Stockholm last week for relay to the four major Allied powers. No negotiations were begun on the basis of the bid, it was said, because it was feared that if any were undertaken the Jap war lords, who were presumed to be ignorant of the feelers, would visit swift punishment on those making the offer. It was held possible that the war lords might even assassinate the Emperor and announce the son of heaven had fled the earth in a fury of indignation over the peace bid.

Defeat Seen Inevitable

Officials said it was felt by Mr. Roosevelt that the Japs were not ripe for peace, except for a small group, who were powerless to cope with the war lords, and that peace could not come until the Japs had suffered more. The Jap overtures were made on acknowledgment that defeat was inevitable and Japan had to choose the best way out of an unhappy dilemma -- domination of Asia by Russia or by the United States. The unofficial Jap peace brokers said the latter would be preferable by far.

Jap proposals to Gen. MacArthur contemplated:
1. Full surrender of all Jap forces on sea, in the air, at home, on island possessions and in occupied countries.
2. Surrender of all arms and munitions.
3. Occupation of the Jap homeland and island possessions by Allied troops under American direction. Would Give Up Territory
4. Jap relinquishment from Manchuria, Korea and Formosa as well as all territory seized during the war.
5. Regulation of Jap industry to halt present and future production of implements of war.
6. Turning over of any Japanese the United States might designate as war criminals.
7. Immediate release of all prisoners of war and internees in Japan proper and areas under Japanese control.

After the fall of Germany, the policy of unconditional surrender drew critical fire. In the Senate Senator White (R.) of Maine Capehart (R.) of Indiana took the lead in demanding that precise terms be given Japan and in asking whether peace feelers had not been received from the Nipponese. Terms Drafted in July In July the Tribune reported that a set of terms were being drafted for President Truman to take to Potsdam. Capehart hailed the reported terms on the floor of the Senate as a great contribution to universal peace. These terms, which were embodied in the Potsdam declaration, did not mention the disposition of the Emperor. Otherwise they were almost identical with the proposals contained in the MacArthur memorandum. Just before the Japanese surrender the Russian foreign commissar disclosed that the Japs had made peace overtures through Moscow asking that the Soviets mediate the war. These overtures were made in the middle of June through the Russian foreign office and also through a personal letter from Hirohito to Stalin. Both overtures were reported to the United States and Britain. "


And yet in 1945 near the end all they offered was a cease fire return to 41 start lines and no concessions in China...... I suspect your newspaper article is a lie by that paper or perhaps you can cite for us the OFFICIAL report by Mac Arther I have source documents from the ACTUAL Government of what was proposed by Japan to the Soviets and to the Americans. At no time was it an abject surrender. However the peace party in the Japanese Government was trying to do that, the problem being they did NOT control the Government the ARMY did and the ARMY had no intention of surrender. Produce an actual Government record or I will even accept a letter FROM Mac Arther, otherwise it is a smoke trail. The reality is that the American press was of two camps. One sup[ported the President and Nimitz, the other supported Mac Arther. The Mac Arther camp routinely downplayed any success by the Navy or Marines and claimed any success by Mac was a stunning victory. They lied routinely to make Mac look better. I took a history class on this very subject and I bet you haven't.
 

keepitreal

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I think China is going to wage a second attack against us
and weakened our allies first
 

Unkotare

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Here is a sensible explanation of the alternatives that were available to Truman in August 1945, alternatives that did not involve killing over 200,000 civilians and seriously injuring thousands of others with two atomic bombs
But those “alternatives” didn’t include ending the war. ....
The war could have ended in any number of ways with a surrender and without the incineration of hundreds of thousands of women, children, and the elderly.
 

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