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The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

Plow Boy

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China? Really, China?

You are aware are you not, that in 1945 China was our ally. So why in the hell would we be using such to "send a message" to our ally? Were we also sending one to the UK as well, to not think about trying to regain their colonies?
In 1945 China was under invasion by Japan, with an insurrection by Mao Tse Tung going on. Maybe I should have said send a message to Mao, who was 4 years away from becoming a dictator. You are well aware of that aren’t you?
 

Plow Boy

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Actually, Shinto is anything but a "death cult". However, to most it remains a mystery.

However, it must be recognized that unlike most other cultures on the planet, Japan still does not have a strong cultural prohibition on suicide. In times of bad economy, it is still not unusual to see the owners of businesses that fail kill themselves from a sense of shame because they failed. And it is still common when adults get fired. Or even among teens who fail entry into a university they wanted to go to.

Where acceptance and conformity are the norm, and failing to live up to that can lose face. And in the culture, suicide is an accepted way to regain your honor. But that is not just Shinto, that is simply their cultural viewpoint. Not unlike a rabid Islamic suicide bomber would see nothing wrong with killing themselves to take out some they see as the enemy.

In that, culturally the Japanese people are not much different, but they generally do not rush out to embrace death as a rule. There are always some fanatics, which is how the Kamikaze started in the first place. But if a battle is lost, they still believe it is better to die fighting than to surrender.

It must be remembered, this was a unique culture, that while not looking for death, also did not fear it. Where before entering battle a Samurai would take care to make sure their make-up and hair were perfect. So if they fell in battle, their head their head would look it's best when presented to the commanding general. Something continued even as the Meiji Restoration stomped out the last of the Samurai.

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And even into the Showa era, the Japanese thought nothing of beheading, even though it horrified most of the rest of the world. However, I will admit that I often chuckle when I see some hipster with a douche knot, and wonder if they wear it for the same reason the Samurai wore theirs.

So the victor could easily hold their head after it was cut off for presentation. And they would be sure the person presenting it was not soiled by their blood.
Japan attacked America, and that was one of the dumbest stunts in history. They worshiped the empower, who was a Shinto god, and he could do no wrong. He was a god to them, but he did not stop the attack upon America. He was as dumb as stump.
 

Unkotare

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Japan attacked America, and that was one of the dumbest stunts in history. They worshiped the empower, who was a Shinto god, and he could do no wrong. He was a god to them, but he did not stop the attack upon America. He was as dumb as stump.
Read more than the back cover of a history book, Junior.
 

Mushroom

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In 1945 China was under invasion by Japan, with an insurrection by Mao Tse Tung going on. Maybe I should have said send a message to Mao, who was 4 years away from becoming a dictator. You are well aware of that aren’t you?

I am well aware of that. And the fact that along the coast and major cities, Japan did not really occupy that much of China. And we were supporting the Nationalist Chinese, and even the Marxists put things at rest until the Japanese were taken care of.

In fact, we also helped a great many Marxists during that war. Seeing Japan as the larger threat. Even giving supplies and advisors to both Mao and Uncle Ho.

Yes, I am very much aware of China at the time, and in the over four decades before as well. But all you seem to be able to do is try to throw darts over and over, but none of them seem to stick.
 
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Mushroom

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Japan attacked America, and that was one of the dumbest stunts in history. They worshiped the empower, who was a Shinto god, and he could do no wrong. He was a god to them, but he did not stop the attack upon America. He was as dumb as stump.

He could not stop it. The Emperor was literally a figurehead, and had been for almost a thousand years at least. The power was entirely in the hands of the Taisei Yokusankai. At most, the Emperor could listen in on the meetings of his own Imperial Council, but could say nothing. In fact, in his own government he had even less power and vote than the Vice President does in the senate. The only time he was ever allowed to speak or make a decision in his own council, is in the event they were ever deadlocked and he became the tie breaker vote.

Which happened exactly one time, ever.

In this, I do agree with Poopy. He and I often disagree on a great many things in particular, but I think we both recognize that the other is very aware and knowledgeable of Showa era Japanese culture. In this long returning 2 year long thread we often but heads over some things, but we actually both recognize that the other is knowledgeable on the subject. Meanwhile you jump right in knowing almost nothing, and it shows in almost every point you try to make.

Like the claim that he should have stopped the war. He was powerless to do so.

And Japan did not just "attack America". They also attacked the UK.

We hereby declare War on the United States of America and the British Empire. The men and officers of Our Army and Navy shall do their utmost in prosecuting the war. Our public servants of various departments shall perform faithfully and diligently their respective duties; the entire nation with a united will shall mobilize their total strength so that nothing will miscarry in the attainment of Our war aims.

After invading China, French Indochina, and the Dutch East Indies. They literally bit off far more than they could ever hope to chew. And ultimately, they choked on it.
 
OP
mikegriffith1

mikegriffith1

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Look, even McGeorge Bundy, who ghost-wrote Stimson's obscene apology for nuking Japan, admitted that we should have waited more than three days before nuking Nagasaki. So if you can't even admit that Nagasaki was unjustified, you're as bad as the worst Nazis and the worst Japanese militarists. It brings your basic humanity into question.

How many of you gung-ho American militarists realize that Nagasaki was the center of Christianity in Japan?
 

P@triot

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You don’t like what I am saying, and you are hardly anyone to criticize me. You seem nuts or something.
Oh Unkotare is nuts. Every post is some idiotic one-sentence fortune cookie sentiment (almost always in the form of a question). He’s also a pussy who melts when people just discuss conflict.
 

P@triot

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How many of you gung-ho American militarists realize that Nagasaki was the center of Christianity in Japan?
How many of you pacifist pussies realize that we don’t care?

1. It was 80 fucking years ago. Get over it already, weeping snowflake (ffs you weren’t even alive when it happened)

2. Japan attacked us first during a time when Adolf Hitler and the Nazis were taking over the world. It wasn’t a time for failed left-wing ideology of kumbaya

3. Dropping that nuke resulted in never seeing a World War III (even if you’re too stupid to know it). It showed the world two things:
A. The awesome power of the nuclear bomb
B. The United States wasn’t afraid to use it

Shut…the…fuck…up…already. You’re wrong. Get over it.
 

Unkotare

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Oh Unkotare is nuts. Every post is some idiotic one-sentence fortune cookie sentiment (almost always in the form of a question). He’s also a pussy who melts when people just discuss conflict.
Oh, did you actually want to discuss some thing, big mouth? Or were you planning to make one post and then copy and paste your own post over and over 10,000 times again?
 

Fort Fun Indiana

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1. It was 80 fucking years ago. Get over it already, weeping snowflake (ffs you weren’t even alive when it happened)
Then get the fuck out. Most intelligent adults realize it is still a discussion worth having, given the proliferation of nuclear weapons.
 

DudleySmith

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Many of us had fathers and uncles in the Pacific; we don't give a rat's ass who apologized for what or said what, we wouldn't have cared if they wiped out the entire Japanese population, especially those of us who knew a Bataan survivor and know what the vermin did in China and elsewhere. Fuck Japs and their self-inflicted suffering; nearly all of them cheered and held parades after every victory, including so-called 'American' Japs, who also held drives raising money for their own version of the Red Cross sending care packages for the Japanese troops invading Asian countries. They also couldn't be bothered to report Japanese intelligence officers recruiting in Japanese neighborhoods in the U.S. right up to Pearl. If they were all gone nobody these days would even notice.

And, fun fact: It was American Chinese and Filipinos who benefited most from Japs having to sell their businesses to go internment camps; they took over a lot of Japanese industries and businesses, their neighborhoods being right next to them on the west coast.
 

DudleySmith

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Japan attacked America, and that was one of the dumbest stunts in history. They worshiped the empower, who was a Shinto god, and he could do no wrong. He was a god to them, but he did not stop the attack upon America. He was as dumb as stump.

they made a point of white-washing his role, since he sold out his own military to save his own ass after the defeat, and helped a little with stabilizing the local politics.
 

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