The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[Hollie]

Decisions of international and national tribunals​

The U.S. State Department Digest of International Law says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]

For John Quigley, Palestine's existence as a state predates the 1988 declaration. Tracing Palestine's status as an international entity back to the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after World War I, he recalls that the Palestine Mandate (1918–1948), an arrangement made under Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, held as its "ultimate objective", the "self-determination and independence of the people concerned." He says that in explicitly referring to the Covenant, the 1988 declaration was reaffirming an existing Palestinian statehood.

State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Time to trot out the Zebra, again.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Tinmore,

You posted:

"They did not have to be. The Allied Powers decided to not annex the territory. That the territory would be carved into new states. That the people would be the nationals and citizens of their respective new state."

So, I asked Which territory did the Allied Powers decide to not annex? And to what other territory?
[ Did they decide to not annex all the territory the Ottomans lost to the UK or France?

And that territory was going to be carved into which new States?
[Are you talking about all the 4 Mandates?]

So, Palestine was actually to become Israel. Were all the Jews, Arabs, Druze, etc who lived there going to become Citizens of Israel?

Because the Jews were not going to call their rebuilt country Palestine, right?

You are aware that the British only called the Jewish State Mandate Palestine in order to continue to humiliate the Jews. That the British had no intention at all, as proven later, to allow the Jews to actually rebuild their State on the whole, or any, of the British Mandate for Palestine.

Isn't that what happened?

The British almost immediately gave away 78% of the Jewish Homeland , TransJordan, to the foreign Arab clan, the Hashemites.

And then, the British never meant to allow the Jews, or even the Arabs, have the remaining 22%. They wanted to keep it for themselves.
In place of India, which they had recently lost.

None of the other 3 Mandates had any problems becoming States. Iraq in 1932. All of them became States much earlier than Israel.

Not one of the others, had the British or the French getting in the way of those mandates, Iraq, Lebanon and Syria, of becoming States.

The great thing today is how many Arabs, Christians and Muslims, are happy and proud of being Israeli Citizens.


The British lost on their intent to never allowing the Jews to rebuild and have their sovereign State.

 

[P F Tinmore]

So, Palestine was actually to become Israel. Were all the Jews, Arabs, Druze, etc who lived there going to become Citizens of Israel?

Do you have a link for that?

 

[P F Tinmore]

That the British had no intention at all, as proven later, to allow the Jews to actually rebuild their State on the whole, or any, of the British Mandate for Palestine.

The Jewish national home was not to be a Jewish state. The Jews would get Palestinian citizenship and live together in one state with all the other Palestinians.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Do you have a link for that?

You do know that the Mandate for Palestine was created to rebuild the Jewish State.

Stop playing at not knowing things.
-----------

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

 

[Sixties Fan]

ARTICLE 1.​

The Mandatory shall have full powers of legislation and of administration, save as they may be limited by the terms of this mandate.

ART. 2.​

The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.

ART. 3.​

The Mandatory shall, so far as circumstances permit, encourage local autonomy.

ART. 4.​

An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.

The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.

ART. 5.​

The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of the Government of any foreign Power.

ART. 6.​

The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.

ART. 7.​

The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Jews would get Palestinian citizenship and live together in one state with all the other Palestinians.

And then the palestinians, with help from their Arab neighbors, screwed it up.

 

[Sixties Fan]

And then the palestinians, with help from their Arab neighbors, screwed it up.

Palestinian Arabs, as opposed to Palestinian Jews.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Palestinian Arabs, as opposed to Palestinian Jews.

The Jews screwed up the Arab plans by repeatedly kicking Arab ass.

 

[P F Tinmore]

ART. 7.​

The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.

Like I said. Palestinian citizenship like all the other Palestinians. A shared state.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Like I said. Palestinian citizenship like all the other Palestinians. A shared state.

The Jews have their state.
They call their citizenship.....Israeli.

Where is the Palestinian state?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Like I said. Palestinian citizenship like all the other Palestinians. A shared state.

But this statement has not removed doubts, and His Majesty's Government therefore now declare unequivocally that it is not part of their policy that Palestine should become a Jewish State. They would indeed regard it as contrary to their obligations to the Arabs under the Mandate, as well as to the assurances which have been given to the Arab people in the past, that the Arab population of Palestine should be made the subjects of a Jewish State against their will.

His Majesty's Government are unable at present to foresee the exact constitutional forms which government in Palestine will eventually take, but their objective is self government, and they desire to see established ultimately an independent Palestine State. It should be a State in which the two peoples in Palestine, Arabs and Jews, share authority in government in such a way that the essential interests of each are shared.

The Avalon Project : British White Paper of 1939

avalon.law.yale.edu

 

[Sixties Fan]

Like I said. Palestinian citizenship like all the other Palestinians. A shared state.

It was to become Israel. 100% of the Mandate. Arabs, Druze, Bedouins, etc would become Israelis, just as they are now in what is left of the Mandate for the Jews.

They would have Israeli citizenship, as so many non Jews have now.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Jews have their state.
They call their citizenship.....Israeli.

Where is the Palestinian state?

It is right under Israel's fat ass.

 

[P F Tinmore]

It was to become Israel. 100% of the Mandate. Arabs, Druze, Bedouins, etc would become Israelis, just as they are now in what is left of the Mandate for the Jews.

They would have Israeli citizenship, as so many non Jews have now.

Do you have a link for that?

 

[Sixties Fan]

It is right under Israel's fat ass.

Get ugly when you cannot find the right answer.

The Mandate for Palestine was NEVER going to become the "State of Palestine", as Lebanon remained Lebanon, Syria remained Syria, and Mesopotamia became Iraq.

The Muslims and Christians want to deny the Jews sovereignty over any part of their ancient homeland. You do know that.

One state solution, with 80% already in Muslim hands, means that Israel would cease to exist, making the British, Hashemite and Al Husseini clan's dream come true.

Vile people want the destruction of the Jewish people.

It will never come to be

 

[P F Tinmore]

Get ugly when you cannot find the right answer.

The Mandate for Palestine was NEVER going to become the "State of Palestine", as Lebanon remained Lebanon, Syria remained Syria, and Mesopotamia became Iraq.

The Muslims and Christians want to deny the Jews sovereignty over any part of their ancient homeland. You do know that.

One state solution, with 80% already in Muslim hands, means that Israel would cease to exist, making the British, Hashemite and Al Husseini clan's dream come true.

Vile people want the destruction of the Jewish people.

It will never come to be

Nice rant.

Not true.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

that the Arab population of Palestine should be made the subjects of a Jewish State against their will.

Well, if they want to move to Jordan or Saudi Arabia or Gaza, Israel won't stop them.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It is right under Israel's fat ass.

Poor Arab losers.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Nice rant.

Not true.

You do know that it is true. It was to be the State for the Jewish People. It says so on the Mandate, just as I posted it. Deny all you like. On their ancient homeland. All 100% of it, until the British decided otherwise.
Something they would never had done had the Mandate been promised to Muslims, as the other 3 Mandates were.

The Kurds did not get their State.
The Assyrians did not become the government of Syria.