The Nanking Massacre and Iris Chang's Book The Rape of Nanking

[mikegriffith1]

I sense that you have no interest in fact on this issue, but in actuality, some of the biggest peace advocates in the Japanese government were senior military officers, such as Admiral Yonai, who was one of the Big Six (he was the Navy Minister), and Admiral Suzuki, who played a crucial role in bringing about Japan's surrender.

We blundered badly in assassinating Admiral Yamamoto. The militarists disliked and distrusted Yamamoto. Until it became clear that FDR was determined to strangle Japan's economy and push Japan into war, Yamamoto was one of the leading opponents of war with the U.S. There were several times when his aides feared the militarists were going to assassinate him. The peace advocates could have very much used his clout when they began to push for surrender in early 1945.

they should have surrendered at the Battle of Midway... Instead they dragged the war on for 3 more years of death and destruction, hoping in vain the US would get tired of it and let them keep their ill-gotten gains.

Then when the USSR got into it, they realized they didn't want a bunch of half-Slavic Babies when the Soviets raped the *%$^$# out of all their women. So they surrendered after inflicting untold misery on their people.

This is Neanderthal thinking. The last time I checked, Japan did not fire-bomb its own cities and kill over 500,000 of its own citizens--FDR and Truman did that. FDR and Truman's bombing of 67 Japanese cities violated the very rules of war that FDR had trumpeted when the Japanese bombed a fraction of that number of cities in China.

There would have been no war with Japan in the first place if FDR had not followed Soviet policy and cut off Japan's access to the Panama Canal, cut off Philippine exports to Japan, abrogated a long-standing trade treaty with Japan, cut off most of Japan's supply of raw materials, cut off most of Japan's oil supply, frozen Japan's assets, stationed B-17s in the Philippines, inexplicably moved the Pacific Fleet to Hawaii against the advice of the fleet's commander and against all military logistical and strategic logic, and then rejected every Japanese peace offer to restore good relations.

And why did FDR pick a fight with our long-time anti-Communist ally Japan? Because he was desperate to save the Soviet Union and correctly feared that if Japan and the U.S. were not at war, Japan might attack the Soviet Union, or that at the very least the Soviet Union would be required to keep hundreds of thousands of troops on the Manchurian border to guard against a Japanese attack. When FDR, much to Stalin's delight, made sure that Japan would not threaten the Soviet Union, Stalin was able to move hundreds of thousands of troops from Manchuria just in the nick of time to save the Soviet Union from collapse. And here you are, a supposed "conservative," taking the Soviet side on this issue and cheering this treasonous, disastrous act.

 

[JoeB131]

This is Neanderthal thinking. The last time I checked, Japan did not fire-bomb its own cities and kill over 500,000 of its own citizens--FDR and Truman did that. FDR and Truman's bombing of 67 Japanese cities violated the very rules of war that FDR had trumpeted when the Japanese bombed a fraction of that number of cities in China.

Except- again, Japan started the war with China and then with us when we used peaceful economic means to resolve the issue.

Please point out where bombing cities violated the rules of war?

There would have been no war with Japan in the first place if FDR had not followed Soviet policy and cut off Japan's access to the Panama Canal, cut off Philippine exports to Japan, abrogated a long-standing trade treaty with Japan, cut off most of Japan's supply of raw materials, cut off most of Japan's oil supply, frozen Japan's assets, stationed B-17s in the Philippines, inexplicably moved the Pacific Fleet to Hawaii against the advice of the fleet's commander and against all military logistical and strategic logic, and then rejected every Japanese peace offer to restore good relations.

Yeah... he couldn't have totally appeased the Japanese, because we all saw how well appeasement was working up to that point with the Axis Powers. Oh. Wait.

And why did FDR pick a fight with our long-time anti-Communist ally Japan? Because he was desperate to save the Soviet Union and correctly feared that if Japan and the U.S. were not at war, Japan might attack the Soviet Union, or that at the very least the Soviet Union would be required to keep hundreds of thousands of troops on the Manchurian border to guard against a Japanese attack. When FDR, much to Stalin's delight, made sure that Japan would not threaten the Soviet Union, Stalin was able to move hundreds of thousands of troops from Manchuria just in the nick of time to save the Soviet Union from collapse. And here you are, a supposed "conservative," taking the Soviet side on this issue and cheering this treasonous, disastrous act.

Um, he picked a fight with Japan because Japan was engaged in a genoncidal war against China... that's why he picked a fight with Japan.

 

[gipper]

This is Neanderthal thinking. The last time I checked, Japan did not fire-bomb its own cities and kill over 500,000 of its own citizens--FDR and Truman did that. FDR and Truman's bombing of 67 Japanese cities violated the very rules of war that FDR had trumpeted when the Japanese bombed a fraction of that number of cities in China.

Except- again, Japan started the war with China and then with us when we used peaceful economic means to resolve the issue.

Please point out where bombing cities violated the rules of war?

There would have been no war with Japan in the first place if FDR had not followed Soviet policy and cut off Japan's access to the Panama Canal, cut off Philippine exports to Japan, abrogated a long-standing trade treaty with Japan, cut off most of Japan's supply of raw materials, cut off most of Japan's oil supply, frozen Japan's assets, stationed B-17s in the Philippines, inexplicably moved the Pacific Fleet to Hawaii against the advice of the fleet's commander and against all military logistical and strategic logic, and then rejected every Japanese peace offer to restore good relations.

Yeah... he couldn't have totally appeased the Japanese, because we all saw how well appeasement was working up to that point with the Axis Powers. Oh. Wait.

And why did FDR pick a fight with our long-time anti-Communist ally Japan? Because he was desperate to save the Soviet Union and correctly feared that if Japan and the U.S. were not at war, Japan might attack the Soviet Union, or that at the very least the Soviet Union would be required to keep hundreds of thousands of troops on the Manchurian border to guard against a Japanese attack. When FDR, much to Stalin's delight, made sure that Japan would not threaten the Soviet Union, Stalin was able to move hundreds of thousands of troops from Manchuria just in the nick of time to save the Soviet Union from collapse. And here you are, a supposed "conservative," taking the Soviet side on this issue and cheering this treasonous, disastrous act.

Um, he picked a fight with Japan because Japan was engaged in a genoncidal war against China... that's why he picked a fight with Japan.

LOL.

FDR made no effort to peacefully restore relations with Japan. It was quite the opposite.

That blows up everything you stated, because it is entirely wrong. FDR did all he could to antagonize the Japanese. His demands of them were outrageous and he knew it. He refused to even speak with them.

He also knew the attack on Pearl was forthcoming, moved out the carriers, refused to warn commanders, sacrificed those sailors still at Pearl, and then scapegoated the commanders as incompetent. He was a ruthless psychopathic murderer, but not unlike most of our recent presidents.

 

[gipper]

The Japanese military rulers were actually very nice guys. They were just misunderstood.

Well then, Dirty Harry Truman was a REALLY nice guy.

Both atomic bombs combined did not kill as many Japanese civilians as LeMay's incendiary bombing did, but unlike those bombs, the atomic bombs ended the war and the killing altogether.

The a-bombs didn’t end the war. That is clear to any intelligent person, statists excluded.

The ruthless bombings of Japanese cities by our government, was clearly a war crime. Lemay and the rest of the leadership should have been hung.

 

[JoeB131]

LOL.

FDR made no effort to peacefully restore relations with Japan. It was quite the opposite.

That blows up everything you stated, because it is entirely wrong. FDR did all he could to antagonize the Japanese. His demands of them were outrageous and he knew it. He refused to even speak with them.

Don't engage in a war of aggression against your neighbor is an outrageous demand? Really?

We were speaking with Japan the morning of the Pearl Harbor attack.

This is Suburo Kurusu, special envoy to the US who was sent to talk to the US. While he was telling us how much Japan wanted peace, there were six aircraft carriers closing on Pearl Harbor.

 

[gipper]

....Now, all that said- the reason why the myth of the Atom Bomb grew was that after the USSR and USA started stockpiling enough of them to create an existential threat to the human race, THEN they became a bigger deal. Then we started questioning why we dropped them on those nice people who made those transistor radios and Godzilla movies.

Bullcrap.

Reality... our view of history is colored by subsequent events...

No one at the time thought twice about nuking Japan.

At the time, while our propagandists made a distinction between "Good Germans" and "Nazis", the Japanese were portrayed as sub-human monsters. In reality, the "Good Germans" never showed up, they fought for Hitler to the last old man and little boy.

Today, you will find all sorts of movies where the Nazis are the villians, thanks to all the Jewish influence in Hollywood, but it's rare you'll find a movie about the awful stuff Japan did in World War II. If you find one, it's usually about how white people were inconvenienced.

Wrong again. Your understanding of the horrific event, is that of a third grader.

Many opposed the bombings before and after Truman massacred 200,000 defenseless women, children, and old men. Almost immediately after the massacre, many questions arose in the American press.

Dirty Harry Truman lied about the bombings many times. Why would he lie, if everyone supported it? First Dirty Harry said Hiroshima was a military base. Then later, claimed it was a industrial center. Then later when these explanations were exposed as lies, the colossal lie was developed that the bombings saved 500,000 American lives. You bought them all. LOL.

Please read the article at the link, from the great historian Ralph Raico. Get informed before posting or you will be banned for life.

The War Criminal Harry Truman - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com

 

[gipper]

LOL.

FDR made no effort to peacefully restore relations with Japan. It was quite the opposite.

That blows up everything you stated, because it is entirely wrong. FDR did all he could to antagonize the Japanese. His demands of them were outrageous and he knew it. He refused to even speak with them.

Don't engage in a war of aggression against your neighbor is an outrageous demand? Really?

We were speaking with Japan the morning of the Pearl Harbor attack.

View attachment 285364
This is Suburo Kurusu, special envoy to the US who was sent to talk to the US. While he was telling us how much Japan wanted peace, there were six aircraft carriers closing on Pearl Harbor.

Oh please!

Are you dumber than a third grader?

 

[JoeB131]

Wrong again. Your understanding of the horrific event, is that of a third grader.

Many opposed the bombings before and after Truman massacred 200,000 defenseless women, children, and old men. Almost immediately after the massacre, many questions arose in the American press.

Actually ,very few questions did... and in one poll, not only did a majority favor nuking Japan, 22% favored bombing all their cities before they had a chance to surrender...

Again, you really should have talked to some of those WWII era guys and how they felt about Japan.

Dirty Harry Truman lied about the bombings many times. Why would he lie, if everyone supported it? First Dirty Harry said Hiroshima was a military base. Then later, claimed it was a industrial center. Then later when these explanations were exposed as lies, the colossal lie was developed that the bombings saved 500,000 American lives. You bought them all. LOL.

Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - Wikipedia

At the time of its bombing, Hiroshima was a city of industrial and military significance. A number of military units were located nearby, the most important of which was the headquarters of Field Marshal Shunroku Hata's Second General Army, which commanded the defense of all of southern Japan,[113] and was located in Hiroshima Castle. Hata's command consisted of some 400,000 men, most of whom were on Kyushu where an Allied invasion was correctly anticipated.[114] Also present in Hiroshima were the headquarters of the 59th Army, the 5th Division and the 224th Division, a recently formed mobile unit.[115] The city was defended by five batteries of 7-cm and 8-cm (2.8 and 3.1 inch) anti-aircraft guns of the 3rd Anti-Aircraft Division, including units from the 121st and 122nd Anti-Aircraft Regiments and the 22nd and 45th Separate Anti-Aircraft Battalions. In total, an estimated 40,000 Japanese military personnel were stationed in the city.[116]

Hiroshima was a supply and logistics base for the Japanese military.[117] The city was a communications center, a key port for shipping, and an assembly area for troops.[79] It was a beehive of war industry, manufacturing parts for planes and boats, for bombs, rifles, and handguns.[118]

 

[gipper]

Wrong again. Your understanding of the horrific event, is that of a third grader.

Many opposed the bombings before and after Truman massacred 200,000 defenseless women, children, and old men. Almost immediately after the massacre, many questions arose in the American press.

Actually ,very few questions did... and in one poll, not only did a majority favor nuking Japan, 22% favored bombing all their cities before they had a chance to surrender...

Again, you really should have talked to some of those WWII era guys and how they felt about Japan.

Dirty Harry Truman lied about the bombings many times. Why would he lie, if everyone supported it? First Dirty Harry said Hiroshima was a military base. Then later, claimed it was a industrial center. Then later when these explanations were exposed as lies, the colossal lie was developed that the bombings saved 500,000 American lives. You bought them all. LOL.

Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - Wikipedia

At the time of its bombing, Hiroshima was a city of industrial and military significance. A number of military units were located nearby, the most important of which was the headquarters of Field Marshal Shunroku Hata's Second General Army, which commanded the defense of all of southern Japan,[113] and was located in Hiroshima Castle. Hata's command consisted of some 400,000 men, most of whom were on Kyushu where an Allied invasion was correctly anticipated.[114] Also present in Hiroshima were the headquarters of the 59th Army, the 5th Division and the 224th Division, a recently formed mobile unit.[115] The city was defended by five batteries of 7-cm and 8-cm (2.8 and 3.1 inch) anti-aircraft guns of the 3rd Anti-Aircraft Division, including units from the 121st and 122nd Anti-Aircraft Regiments and the 22nd and 45th Separate Anti-Aircraft Battalions. In total, an estimated 40,000 Japanese military personnel were stationed in the city.[116]

Hiroshima was a supply and logistics base for the Japanese military.[117] The city was a communications center, a key port for shipping, and an assembly area for troops.[79] It was a beehive of war industry, manufacturing parts for planes and boats, for bombs, rifles, and handguns.[118]

Lol. Wiki. Are you crazy?

you will do well in our Orwellian future. You believe whatever Uncle tells you.

 

[JoeB131]

Lol. Wiki. Are you crazy?

you will do well in our Orwellian future. You believe whatever Uncle tells you.

Okay, so you just got proven wrong, and you are trying to backtrack... I get it, man.

Funny thing is, I have a lot of respect for the Japanese and their culture. But what they did in WWII was wrong, I think they even realize that now.

 

[gipper]

Lol. Wiki. Are you crazy?

you will do well in our Orwellian future. You believe whatever Uncle tells you.

Okay, so you just got proven wrong, and you are trying to backtrack... I get it, man.

Funny thing is, I have a lot of respect for the Japanese and their culture. But what they did in WWII was wrong, I think they even realize that now.

Sorry I can’t debate a third grader. It’s not fair to you or me.

Get informed before posting.

 

[JoeB131]

Sorry I can’t debate a third grader. It’s not fair to you or me.

Get informed before posting.

Funny to hear a child-like Libertarian try to use that route.

Point is, you made inaccurate statements. You were corrected on their inaccuracies... and your response was, "Nuh-uh".

Japan was the aggressor in WWII.
The US made peaceful efforts to get them to change their policies, and got attacked for their troubles.
We used appropriate military force to defeat them.

The world is better off for it because we did. Even Japan is better off for it, if you compare the poverty most 1930's Japanese lived under compared to today.

 

[Unkotare]

It is laughable that someone so profoundly ignorant claims to have a degree in History.

What an idiot.

 

[JoeB131]

It is laughable that someone so profoundly ignorant claims to have a degree in History.

What an idiot.

No, an idiot is someone who tries to do revisionism to make Japan's actions look better.

Maybe you need to do some reading on this.

10 Atrocious Experiments Conducted By Unit 731 - Listverse

 

[Unkotare]

It is laughable that someone so profoundly ignorant claims to have a degree in History.

What an idiot.

No, an idiot is someone who tries to do revisionism to make Japan's actions look better.

Maybe you need to do some reading on this.

...se

Facts about which YOU are ignorant are “revisionism,” dumbass.

 

[JoeB131]

Facts about which YOU are ignorant are “revisionism, dumbass.

So you are denying Unit 731 existed?

 

[Unkotare]

Facts about which YOU are ignorant are “revisionism, dumbass.

So you are denying Unit 731 existed?

I, of course, never said anything like that. Put away your straw man, it’s not working for you.

Now we know you have never studied History OR Logic.

 

[JoeB131]

I, of course, never said anything like that. Put away your straw man, it’s not working for you.

Now we know you have never studied History OR Logic.

To be honest, I'm not even sure what your point on this thread is, other than to be a troll.

 

[Unkotare]

I, of course, never said anything like that. Put away your straw man, it’s not working for you.

Now we know you have never studied History OR Logic.

To be honest, I'm not even sure what your point on this thread is, other than to be a troll.

Your point now seems to be ducking and avoiding.

 

[JoeB131]

Your point now seems to be ducking and avoiding.

I thought I made my points pretty clear.

The Japanese Empire engaged in a war of Aggression first against China and then the rest of Asia.

They committed truly horrible atrocities on par with what Nazi Germany did in Europe.

They really haven't been nearly as apologetic for it as they should be.

The reason we don't hear more about it is because the Chinese don't run Hollywood and feel the need to remind us every couple of years with a movie like Schindler's List.

When you do get a movie about what a bunch of bastards the Japanese were in WWII, it's usually told from the perspective of white people being slightly inconvenienced.