The Nanking Massacre and Iris Chang's Book The Rape of Nanking

[Unkotare]

Finally you admit you’re full of shit.

Ohhh, no, buddy.. Funny thing. When I got my bachelor's Degree in 1986......

In Women's Studies? You sure as hell didn't study History.

 

[JoeB131]

that the Chinese started the war by breaking the existing truce and attacking the Japanese quarter of Shanghai with two divisions.

It was the Chinese land, wasn't it?

Shhhh... According to Mikey G., Japan was doing those Chinese a favor by murdering them and taking their land.

 

[JoeB131]

In Women's Studies? You sure as hell didn't study History.

Yeah, but oddly, I bring more to the discussion than you do, Dripping Poop...

 

[Unkotare]

...

Japan didn't belong near the Marco Polo Bridge NOR in Shanghai. ....

How about Belgium, Italy, Germany, France, Portugal, Great Britain, Russia, and the United States?

 

[JoeB131]

How about Belgium, Italy, Germany, France, Portugal, Great Britain, Russia, and the United States?

How about them? I fully agree, western imperialism against China was wrong. Some were more wrong than others.

This is why China is so touchy today about Hong Kong and Taiwan.

 

[Unkotare]

In Women's Studies? You sure as hell didn't study History.

Yeah, but oddly, I bring more to the discussion than you do........

No, you don't. You only expose your abiding ignorance of anything relating to the history of the period or any other in this part of the world.

 

[JoeB131]

No, you don't. You only expose your abiding ignorance of anything relating to the history of the period or any other in this part of the world.

Look, Dripping Poop, you can try all the revisionism you want. It only leads to bad places, just ask the American South who try to pretend to this day that the Civil War wasn't about slavery.

 

[mikegriffith1]

that the Chinese started the war by breaking the existing truce and attacking the Japanese quarter of Shanghai with two divisions.

It was the Chinese land, wasn't it?

Oh, really? Was it really? Was there a "China" as one sovereign country at the time? In 1937, there was an area historically called "China" that was governed by the Nationalists in some sectors, by the Communists in some sectors, by war lords in some sectors, by Western nations in some sectors, and by Japan in some sectors. You know that a sizable segment of the people *wanted* Japanese rule because they were sick and tired of the war lords and especially sick and tired of the fighting between the Nationalists and the Communists, right? You know that, right?

And, by the way, even the League of Nations' Lytton Commission recommended that Manchuria be given independence, since for hundreds of years Manchuria had never been considered part of "China." The Nationalists never governed as a sovereign power in Manchuria, nor did the Communists. Manchuria had been governed by war lords for decades before the Japanese took over.

Shhhh... According to Mikey G., Japan was doing those Chinese a favor by murdering them and taking their land.

Sigh. . . . Just shaking my head. . . . After all the evidence I've presented to you about the Sino-Japanese War, you're still peddling this grade-school distortion and falsehood?

For about the fifteenth time, the Japanese repeatedly offered the Nationalists a peace deal that would have given all of traditional China to the Nationalists in exchange for allowing the Japanese to retain Manchuria, which the Nationalists had never controlled anyway. Many of the Nationalist leaders, including Chiang Kaishek, were inclined to accept the offer, but FDR and the Soviets persuaded them to reject it and promised to continue sending substantial military aid to them to get them to keep fighting the Japanese.

For about the fifteenth time, the Chinese, not the Japanese, broke the truce and started the Sino-Japanese War in 1937. Even the Japanese army's high command wanted peace and supported the very generous peace terms that the Japanese government offered to the Nationalists in 1937. Those terms included allowing the Nationalists to keep all of traditional China in exchange for Japan's retention of Manchuria. And the Nationalists' response was to move four divisions into the area of Shanghai and then to attack the Japanese quarter of Shanghai with two divisions.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, really? Was it really? Was there a "China" as one sovereign country at the time? In 1937, there was an area historically called "China" that was governed by the Nationalists in some sectors, by the Communists in some sectors, by war lords in some sectors, by Western nations in some sectors, and by Japan in some sectors. You know that a sizable segment of the people *wanted* Japanese rule because they were sick and tired of the war lords and of the fighting between the Nationalists and the Communists, right? You know that, right?

You'll always find Quislings when someone invades. Sorry, man, you are blaming the Chinese for what other countries did to them from the Opium War all the way up until the end of WWII, then you whine that they put the Commies in charge.

And, by the way, even the League of Nations Lytton Commission recommended that Manchuria be given independence, since for thousands of years Manchuria had never been considered part of "China." The Nationalists never governed as a sovereign power in Manchuria, nor did the Communists. Manchuria had been savaged by war-lord rule for decades before the Japanese took over.

They Lytton Commission didn't call for the Japanese to set up a puppet state, which is exactly what they did.

For about the fifteenth time, the Japanese repeatedly offered the Nationalists a peace deal that would have given all of traditional China to the Nationalists in exchange for allowing the Japanese to retain Manchuria, which the nationalists had never controlled anyway. Many of the Nationalist leaders, including Chiang Kaishek, were inclined to accept the offer, but FDR and the Soviets persuaded them to reject it and promised to continue to sending substantial military aid.

Tell you what. I'll take a baseball bat, whack you over the head, take your wallet, and then I'll give you your credit cards back if you suck my dick.

that was the kind of "deal" the Japanese were offering.

You know what, I really like the Japanese. One of my dearest friends is a Japanese woman. But no one should make excuses for what Japan did to China in the first half of the 20th century.

 

[ESay]

Oh, really? Was it really? Was there a "China" as one sovereign country at the time? In 1937, there was an area historically called "China" that was governed by the Nationalists in some sectors, by the Communists in some sectors, by war lords in some sectors, by Western nations in some sectors, and by Japan in some sectors. You know that a sizable segment of the people *wanted* Japanese rule because they were sick and tired of the war lords and especially sick and tired of the fighting between the Nationalists and the Communists, right? You know that, right?

And, by the way, even the League of Nations' Lytton Commission recommended that Manchuria be given independence, since for hundreds of years Manchuria had never been considered part of "China." The Nationalists never governed as a sovereign power in Manchuria, nor did the Communists. Manchuria had been governed by war lords for decades before the Japanese took over.

Maybe there werent a single China at the time, but there were people which are commonly known as the Chinese now.

Sizeble segment? How many this? 20%? 40? 70? And how this figures were established at the time?

We were talking about Shangai. It had never been part of Manchuria.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Oh, really? Was it really? Was there a "China" as one sovereign country at the time? In 1937, there was an area historically called "China" that was governed by the Nationalists in some sectors, by the Communists in some sectors, by war lords in some sectors, by Western nations in some sectors, and by Japan in some sectors. You know that a sizable segment of the people *wanted* Japanese rule because they were sick and tired of the war lords and of the fighting between the Nationalists and the Communists, right? You know that, right?

You'll always find Quislings when someone invades. Sorry, man, you are blaming the Chinese for what other countries did to them from the Opium War all the way up until the end of WWII, then you whine that they put the Commies in charge.

And, by the way, even the League of Nations Lytton Commission recommended that Manchuria be given independence, since for thousands of years Manchuria had never been considered part of "China." The Nationalists never governed as a sovereign power in Manchuria, nor did the Communists. Manchuria had been savaged by war-lord rule for decades before the Japanese took over.

They Lytton Commission didn't call for the Japanese to set up a puppet state, which is exactly what they did.

For about the fifteenth time, the Japanese repeatedly offered the Nationalists a peace deal that would have given all of traditional China to the Nationalists in exchange for allowing the Japanese to retain Manchuria, which the nationalists had never controlled anyway. Many of the Nationalist leaders, including Chiang Kaishek, were inclined to accept the offer, but FDR and the Soviets persuaded them to reject it and promised to continue to sending substantial military aid.

Tell you what. I'll take a baseball bat, whack you over the head, take your wallet, and then I'll give you your credit cards back if you suck my dick.

that was the kind of "deal" the Japanese were offering.

That is just ridiculous. Your arguments are as ignorant as they are vulgar. It is a waste of time trying to reason with you. You are immune to fact and logic. You might have some "dear" Japanese friends, but your version of Japan's involvement in China is based on myths and distortions that originated with the Chinese Communists and Nationalists and the Soviets, and that were parroted by FDR and his pro-Soviet buddies in the American press and academia.

 

[JoeB131]

That is just ridiculous. Your arguments are as ignorant as they are vulgar. It is a waste of time trying to reason with you. You are immune to fact and logic. You might have some "dear" Japanese friends, but your version of Japan's involvement in China is based on myths and distortions that originated with the Chinese Communists and Nationalists and the Soviets, and that were parroted by FDR and his pro-Soviet buddies in the American press and academia.

Yes, yes, everyone was conspiring to make the Japanese look bad when they invaded..

China
Korea
the Philippines
Malaysia
Vietnam
Singapore
Laos
Burma
Indonesia

Poor little Japan, it was just a victim of everyone else being mean to it.

 

[gipper]

That is just ridiculous. Your arguments are as ignorant as they are vulgar. It is a waste of time trying to reason with you. You are immune to fact and logic. You might have some "dear" Japanese friends, but your version of Japan's involvement in China is based on myths and distortions that originated with the Chinese Communists and Nationalists and the Soviets, and that were parroted by FDR and his pro-Soviet buddies in the American press and academia.

Yes, yes, everyone was conspiring to make the Japanese look bad when they invaded..

China
Korea
the Philippines
Malaysia
Vietnam
Singapore
Laos
Burma
Indonesia

Poor little Japan, it was just a victim of everyone else being mean to it.

Can’t fix stupid.

 

[JoeB131]

Can’t fix stupid.

Nope.. and no one is stupider than the idiots who think the wrong side won World War II.

 

[gipper]

Can’t fix stupid.

Nope.. and no one is stupider than the idiots who think the wrong side won World War II.

LOL. No one stated that. LOL.

Statists have to resort to strawman arguments, because they can’t think logically.

 

[JoeB131]

LOL. No one stated that. LOL.

Statists have to resort to strawman arguments, because they can’t think logically.

No, you and Mikey G have just spent 20 pages trying to excuse the Rape of Nanking as "no big deal".

The women who were raped considered it a big deal.

 

[Unkotare]

No, you don't. You only expose your abiding ignorance of anything relating to the history of the period or any other in this part of the world.

Look, Dripping Poop, you can try all the revisionism you want. It only leads to bad places, just ask the American South who try to pretend to this day that the Civil War wasn't about slavery.

The fact that you feel compelled to resort to a strawman fallacy like that proves you have run out of anything to attempt to defend your position with. You can certainly stop pretending to ever have been any kind of historian, as a real historian is not afraid to look at history.

 

[JoeB131]

The fact that you feel compelled to resort to a strawman fallacy like that proves you have run out of anything to attempt to defend your position with. You can certainly stop pretending to ever have been any kind of historian, as a real historian is not afraid to look at history.

I have looked at history.

The Japanese were bastards...

Done.

This ain't complicated, buddy.

 

[gipper]

The fact that you feel compelled to resort to a strawman fallacy like that proves you have run out of anything to attempt to defend your position with. You can certainly stop pretending to ever have been any kind of historian, as a real historian is not afraid to look at history.

I have looked at history.

The Japanese were bastards...

Done.

This ain't complicated, buddy.

Simpleton.

 

[Unkotare]

The fact that you feel compelled to resort to a strawman fallacy like that proves you have run out of anything to attempt to defend your position with. You can certainly stop pretending to ever have been any kind of historian, as a real historian is not afraid to look at history.

I have looked at history.

...

Done.

This ain't complicated, buddy.

Said no serious historian ever.