PoliticalChic
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #61
Not at all.
Rights supersede powers, legally anyways. The law is the exercise of power by the state but individuals have rights that override the power of the state.
The effect is identical.
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Not at all.
Rights supersede powers, legally anyways. The law is the exercise of power by the state but individuals have rights that override the power of the state.
Not at all.
Rights supersede powers, legally anyways. The law is the exercise of power by the state but individuals have rights that override the power of the state.
The effect is identical.
I've never understood conservatives worshipping at the alter of "state's right." A state is a collective that can abrogate individual rights just as easily as the federal government, and often has. Liberty comes not from granting collectives rights but from granting individuals rights. Collective rights is the ideological framework for socialism and communism, not American liberty.
I've never understood conservatives worshipping at the alter of "state's right." A state is a collective that can abrogate individual rights just as easily as the federal government, and often has. Liberty comes not from granting collectives rights but from granting individuals rights. Collective rights is the ideological framework for socialism and communism, not American liberty.
Article VI of The United States Constitution states that the "Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all treaties made or shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the Supreme Law of the Land."See*The Supremacy Clause: U.S. Constitution,*art. VI, § 2. Furthermore, all federal, state, and local officials must take an oath to support the Constitution. This means that state governments and officials cannot take actions or pass laws that interfere with the Constitution, laws passed by Congress, or treaties. The Constitution was interpreted, in 1819, as giving the Supreme Court the power to invalidate any state actions that interfere with the Constitution and the laws and treaties passed pursuant to it. That power is not itself explicitly set out in the Constitution but was declared to exist by the Supreme Court in the decision of*McCulloch v. Maryland.
Constitutional law | Wex Legal Dictionary / Encyclopedia | LII / Legal Information Institute
I've never understood conservatives worshipping at the alter of "state's right." A state is a collective that can abrogate individual rights just as easily as the federal government, and often has. Liberty comes not from granting collectives rights but from granting individuals rights. Collective rights is the ideological framework for socialism and communism, not American liberty.
I've never understood conservatives worshipping at the alter of "state's right." A state is a collective that can abrogate individual rights just as easily as the federal government, and often has. Liberty comes not from granting collectives rights but from granting individuals rights. Collective rights is the ideological framework for socialism and communism, not American liberty.
Local as possible. People have a better chance of knowing the truth from locals than someone on the other side of the country, of who could be corrupted as well.
It's a lot easier to stop corruption locally than nationally, but those on the other side of the nation don't have a clue whats going on.
1. When one tries to understand the ascendancy of the Left, of socialism/communism/collectivism....it certainly isn't the correctness of their views.
Time and again command-and-control economies have failed, and "The Soviet Union attempted to create the New Soviet Man with gulags, psychiatric hospitals, and firing squads for seventy years and succeeded only in producing a more corrupt culture.”
Bork, “Slouching Toward Gomorrah,” p. 198
Here is my analysis: control of the schools and the media, and the co-opting of the language is behind acceptance of Leftism.
It is the use of an illusion: training folks to accept catch-phrases and bumper-stickers as though they represented real thinking, that's how they've done it.
"A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again."
Alexander Pope
2. Recently a post used the phrase 'state's rights' as though it was synonymous with racism and oppression. This belief is a prime example of catch-phrase training, and what Pope meant by 'a little learning.'
If real learning was in effect, the populace would associate the term 'state's rights' with what it really means: Federalism.
"Federalism is a political concept in which a group of members are bound together by covenant (Latin: foedus, covenant) with a governing representative head. The term "federalism" is also used to describe a system of government in which sovereignty is constitutionally divided between a central governing authority and constituent political units (such as states or provinces)." Federalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The less insightful, or should I say, less educated, have come to believe that American people are evil racists.....and that some, in particular states, have to be controlled by a benevolent government ready and able to control/change them....sometimes called 'hope and change.'
Of course, most Leftists don't comprehend 'sovereignty' any more than 'federalism.'
3. Here's why they should:
The 18th century meaning of "state" put same on a par with any sovereign nation. On June 7, 1776, following instructions from the Virginia Convention, Richard Henry Lee, said "Resolved, That these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent States,..."
By that, Lee was saying that Virginia was the equal of Britain, or France. Congress understood that, and promptly appointed a committee to draft a declaration of independence.
And the point of the Declaration? That the colonies were independent states,...that's where an understanding of 'sovereignty' comes in.
a. In the Declaration's fourth and final section, Congress declared the colonies to be "free and independent states," with the right to do everything that free nations could do.
"...the right..." as in State's Rights.
It means exactly the same as the silence of adults when greeted by the squealings of a child too young or uneducated to engage in a discussion clearly beyond his depth.
Why is the Bill of Rights a set of protections over which the federal government has the power over the states to protect and enforce?
Why isn't the protection of those rights, or the choice not to defend them left to the states' to decide,
as part of their sovereignty?
Why do you want the states to have the right to decide abortion rights, but you don't want the states to have the right to decide gun rights?
I just read this thread and the following are my thoughts.
First, the constitution clearly states what a State is prohibited from doing in Article 1 Section 10. Nowhere does it prohibit secession. Seems strange, if the Founders believed secession unconstitutional, than why not prohibit it.
It is also historically correct that no state would have joined the Union, if it could not later leave it. However the States recognized by joining, that they had to abide by the Constitution as the supreme law of the land...as is clearly laid out in the Supremacy Clause, which does not prevent secession.
Secondly, the Constitution superseded the Articles of Confederation, which contained wording about the 'permanence' of the Union. Funny...the Constitution contains no such wording (though the tyrant Lincoln claimed the Union was forever and indissoluble). It is not likely the Founders FORGOT to use this provision in the Constitution.
Even the progressive and supreme statist college professor Woodrow Wilson wrote that secession was constitutional and available to any State, that no longer wished to be part of the Union...
In Division and Reunion, 1829-1889 (1893), which described the differences between the North and South, he agreed that the slavery system was bad in some respects, but he also insisted that as a labor and social system it had worked well. He called President Abraham Lincoln “one of the most singular and admirable figures in the history of modern times” and attempted to distinguish between what he called the “lawyer's facts” and the “historian's facts.” Thus, Wilson concluded, the South had seceded legally, but history had determined secession to be wrong.
Woodrow Wilson
Some tend to think the War of Northern Aggression ended the secession argument, but many disagree for good reason. No amendment was ever ratified revoking secession and no Confederate leader was EVER charged with treason...a possible indication the federal government knew Lincoln's murderous suppression of the South was UNCONSTITUTIONAL....because had it been constitutional, why no treason charges.
It gets worse for the statists, with this:
.....by James Madison...the father of the Constitution. He said these words at the Constitutional Convention May 31, 1787, when a proposal was tabled granting states the right to suppress a seceding state. See more here from the Great Walter Williams Parting Company by Walter E. Williams on Creators.com - A Syndicate Of Talent"A Union of the States containing such an ingredient seemed to provide for its own destruction. The use of force against a State would look more like a declaration of war than an infliction of punishment and would probably be considered by the party attacked as a dissolution of all previous compacts by which it might be bound."
It is quite clear that Lincoln abused his power when he waged an aggressive war against fellow Americans in an effort to prevent secession. He was our first statist POTUS...sadly there were many more to follow him, and they too abused their power.
James Madison
If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the general welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one subject to particular exceptions. It is to be remarked that the phrase out of which this doctrine is elaborated, is copied from the old articles of Confederation, where it was always understood as nothing more than a general caption to the specified powers, and it is a fact that it was preferred in the new instrument for that very reason as less liable than any other to misconstruction.
Letter to w:Edmund Pendleton (1792-01-21) [2]
The government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government.
Speech, House of Representatives, during the debate "On the Memorial of the Relief Committee of Baltimore, for the Relief of St. Domingo Refugees" (1794-01-10) [5]
James Madison - Wikiquote
Seems redundant to note the following, as it applies to so very many of your posts....
...but, one more time:
WRONG!
The founders were of a variety of political persuasions, but the ideas put into the Constitution were definitely liberal, at the time. Since that period Americans and America have become even more liberal. The problem we usually see is that some want to move into liberalism faster, some slower, and some not at all. The not-at-all group is usually the one's most content with their life and status or most afraid of change.
"...definitely liberal, at the time."
Seems you are unaware that Communist/socialist John Dewey had the socialist party steal the name 'Liberal."
I have so much to teach you....if only you were a more apt student.
James Madison
If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the general welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one subject to particular exceptions. It is to be remarked that the phrase out of which this doctrine is elaborated, is copied from the old articles of Confederation, where it was always understood as nothing more than a general caption to the specified powers, and it is a fact that it was preferred in the new instrument for that very reason as less liable than any other to misconstruction.
Letter to w:Edmund Pendleton (1792-01-21) [2]
The government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government.
Speech, House of Representatives, during the debate "On the Memorial of the Relief Committee of Baltimore, for the Relief of St. Domingo Refugees" (1794-01-10) [5]
James Madison - Wikiquote
Yes, our founding fathers believed in limited government until they saw that it didn't work.
The Constitution's purpose was to increase the power of government and limit the power of the states.
Madison was thwarted on a wide range of minor and not-so-minor points, including two issues — a federal "negative" (veto) over the states and proportional representation in both houses of Congress — that he considered crucial to his dream of a government that would safeguard private rights and still promote the public good.
James Madison "Godfather of the Constitution" - The Early America Review, Summer 1997
James Madison
If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the general welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one subject to particular exceptions. It is to be remarked that the phrase out of which this doctrine is elaborated, is copied from the old articles of Confederation, where it was always understood as nothing more than a general caption to the specified powers, and it is a fact that it was preferred in the new instrument for that very reason as less liable than any other to misconstruction.
Letter to w:Edmund Pendleton (1792-01-21) [2]
The government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government.
Speech, House of Representatives, during the debate "On the Memorial of the Relief Committee of Baltimore, for the Relief of St. Domingo Refugees" (1794-01-10) [5]
James Madison - Wikiquote
Yes, our founding fathers believed in limited government until they saw that it didn't work.
The Constitution's purpose was to increase the power of government and limit the power of the states.
Madison was thwarted on a wide range of minor and not-so-minor points, including two issues — a federal "negative" (veto) over the states and proportional representation in both houses of Congress — that he considered crucial to his dream of a government that would safeguard private rights and still promote the public good.
James Madison "Godfather of the Constitution" - The Early America Review, Summer 1997
I disagree.....Many of the checks and balances were specifically done to limit the powers of Gov't.
Enumerated powers were to limit it as well. Thus, they used as local as possible in government all the time.
Our entitlement culture over the last century has gotten us to where we are today. Dead broke, and borrowing our butts off to pay for things that the founders warned us about. We ditched their warnings and created programs without any clue on how the future generations could pay for it.
That is Stupidity and not the intent of the Founders.
Yes, our founding fathers believed in limited government until they saw that it didn't work.
The Constitution's purpose was to increase the power of government and limit the power of the states.
Madison was thwarted on a wide range of minor and not-so-minor points, including two issues — a federal "negative" (veto) over the states and proportional representation in both houses of Congress — that he considered crucial to his dream of a government that would safeguard private rights and still promote the public good.
James Madison "Godfather of the Constitution" - The Early America Review, Summer 1997
I disagree.....Many of the checks and balances were specifically done to limit the powers of Gov't.
Enumerated powers were to limit it as well. Thus, they used as local as possible in government all the time.
Our entitlement culture over the last century has gotten us to where we are today. Dead broke, and borrowing our butts off to pay for things that the founders warned us about. We ditched their warnings and created programs without any clue on how the future generations could pay for it.
That is Stupidity and not the intent of the Founders.
Right wing CRAP. 90%+ of the debt can be traced to 3 guys, Reagan, Bush and Bush (Starve the beast)
The US isn't broke....
I've never understood conservatives worshipping at the alter of "state's right." A state is a collective that can abrogate individual rights just as easily as the federal government, and often has. Liberty comes not from granting collectives rights but from granting individuals rights. Collective rights is the ideological framework for socialism and communism, not American liberty.
Local as possible. People have a better chance of knowing the truth from locals than someone on the other side of the country, of who could be corrupted as well.
It's a lot easier to stop corruption locally than nationally, but those on the other side of the nation don't have a clue whats going on.
Then "country rights," "city rights" or "neighborhood rights" would trump "states rights."
I disagree.....Many of the checks and balances were specifically done to limit the powers of Gov't.
Enumerated powers were to limit it as well. Thus, they used as local as possible in government all the time.
Our entitlement culture over the last century has gotten us to where we are today. Dead broke, and borrowing our butts off to pay for things that the founders warned us about. We ditched their warnings and created programs without any clue on how the future generations could pay for it.
That is Stupidity and not the intent of the Founders.
Right wing CRAP. 90%+ of the debt can be traced to 3 guys, Reagan, Bush and Bush (Starve the beast)
The US isn't broke....
That's a Lie.
We are borrowing, aka printing money at record levels...............Part of that borrowing is on for programs through the century that now have unfunded liabilities in excess of 125 TRILLION dollars.
And what is the solution..........Create more Gov't and more programs we can't pay for.
Charity was never part of the original Constitution. Charity was to be an individual choice. We have abused the the Better Good to the point of the destruction of our economy.
I'm not a fan of Free Trade while we are at it. I don't believe in complete Isolationism, but some Isolationism is necessary in this world.
Local as possible. People have a better chance of knowing the truth from locals than someone on the other side of the country, of who could be corrupted as well.
It's a lot easier to stop corruption locally than nationally, but those on the other side of the nation don't have a clue whats going on.
Then "country rights," "city rights" or "neighborhood rights" would trump "states rights."
That is a bit far fetched, considering the States are made up of county, cities and neighborhoods.
Which is better, being rules in a local area or from someone a 1000 miles away who has never even been in your State or county.