The McMahon Agreement (palestine Map)

[al Haq]

First you said Palestinians don't exist. Then you claimed they were merely infiltrators from other Arab countries. Now you say they are actually all Jews!

Arabs calling themselves Palestinians is a recent description, when the PLO was formed in 1964.

Historically, Arabs in the Levant identified not by Palestine but by tribes and clans, by religion, by Ottoman nationalism or by smaller districts, known as sanjaks and qadas.

During Ottoman rule, lasting 400 years, the territory of Palestine was governed by Syria and Lebanon, thus, many Arabs in the area called themselves Syrians and Lebanese.

However, Arabs did not call themselves Palestinians.

You have already been given repeated examples of Palestinian Arabs referring to themselves as Palestinians long before 1964, even as early as before World War I.

But as usual, rather than admit what everyone else can easily confirm for themselves, your preferred recourse is to simply ignore any uncomfortable facts that don't fit neatly into your Zio fairy tale.

And even if Palestinians had not used the term until just 2 minutes ago, it still doesn't erase them as a people. There were no Israelis until 1948. But Israelis, just as Palestinians, have the right to call themselves anything they want.

Considering Jews have won 160 Nobel Prizes for their achievements in science, mathematics, economics and the humanities and Muslims have won merely 3 Nobel Prizes, out of 1.5 BILLION Muslims in the world, I suspect Muslims' brains hurt.

So what? Many modern achievements in science, mathematics, medicine, etc. are built on the inventions of the Muslim world.

I am fairly certain these great minds wouldn't agree with the bigoted nonsense with which you spam this forum. Einstein certainly didn't.

Only Jews were known as Palestinians.

BS, as has been shown. You yourself quoted Yehoshua Porath to support one of your arguments, but it seems your attention to what he actually wrote is very selective. Maybe you should brush up on page 17 of "The Emergence of the Palestinian-Arab National Movement 1918–1929," where Porath discusses Palestinian Arabs taking part in the Syrian-Palestinian Congress of 1921.

Even today, Arabs mostly call themselves Muslims, not Palestinians.

Well duh...this is a no-brainer. Most Arabs are not Palestinian.

Professor Bernard Lewis, foremost Middle East historian edifies...

You clearly have not read one word written by Bernard Lewis as he sings the praises of Islam and the Arabs as a great religion and a great people. His numerous books on Islam and Arabs are highly admiring of both.

In fact, Lewis has been criticized for being an Islamic apologist, such as his steadfast refusal to concede that the Turks committed genocide against the Armenians. In fact, Lewis was sued by the French government for his refusal to do so in a French newspaper.

Lewis's fluency in 5 languages, including Arabic, Turkish, Farsi, Hebrew and English makes him unequaled in his field.

So, you really know nothing about Bernard Lewis.

A thorough review of his work and career here:
M. Shahid Alam: Bernard Lewis: Scholarship or Sophistry?

Counterpunch is a discredited internet rag with anti-Semitic leanings, so you, too, are discredited.

Your go-to line is that anybody who endorses the Zionist manifesto is "eminent," and all others are "anti-Semites." The Counterpunch article makes specific points about exactly what is objectionable and offensive about Lewis' writings. If you would like to specifically respond to any of the criticism, please feel free.

BTW Lewis' denial of the Armenian genocide is simply the standard Zionist position - see JINSA's maneuvers to prevent its recognition.

Here are a few remarks about Bernard Lewis, including from prominent Arabs...

More canned spam from your Department of Redundancy Department. I already responded to your list of glowing praises for Lewis on one of the first hundred times you posted it. As I told you then, there are no Arabs on this list ("prominent" or otherwise):

You don’t have to be part of a so-called “conspiracy” to mistake propaganda for scholarship, although plenty of the names on your list are well-known members of the Zio cheerleading squad.

Fouad Ajami is your example of "Arabs" praising Bernard Lewis? LOL.

First of all, although he was born in Lebanon, Fouad Ajami is of Iranian heritage, not Arab. (That other “Muslim-sounding” name on your list is an Iranian Kurd.)

Anyway -- at one time, Ajami was a supporter of Palestinian rights, but he switched over to become a shameless tool for the neocon warmongers, extolled by the likes of Daniel Pipes, Norman Podhoretz, and Paul Wolfowitz.

In fact, Ajami works for Pipes at Middle East Forum -- a neo-con think tank dedicated to promoting Israeli right wing ideology and Islamophobia, pushing for the U.S. to spend its blood and treasure attacking any Muslim country that might potentially rival Israel’s hegemony in the Middle East, and harassing American university professors who have the temerity to conduct Middle East Studies classes without a heavily pro-Israel bias.

And it’s no surprise that Ajami would be lauding Bernard Lewis - that’s his partner over at ASMEA (the Association for the Study of the Middle East and Africa, yet another neo-con think tank.)

In short, anybody can find a string of glowing support for anything, especially from the subject's own circle of ideologues.

 

[Marc39]

You have already been given repeated examples of Palestinian Arabs referring to themselves as Palestinians long before 1964, even as early as before World War I.

In your mind, but, not in reality.

But as usual, rather than admit what everyone else can easily confirm for themselves, your preferred recourse is to simply ignore any uncomfortable facts that don't fit neatly into your Zio fairy tale.

Fairy tales written by the foremost Middle East historians. You know better? Even you don't believe so.

And even if Palestinians had not used the term until just 2 minutes ago, it still doesn't erase them as a people. There were no Israelis until 1948. But Israelis, just as Palestinians, have the right to call themselves anything they want.

Except, Arabs call themselves Palestinians for devous political purposes of destroying Israel.

Former PLO leader Zuheir Mohsen...

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.

"For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.

Zuheir Mohsen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So what? Many modern achievements in science, mathematics, medicine, etc. are built on the inventions of the Muslim world.

From, what, 1400 years ago? What have you done for us, lately, except perfect methods of global terrorism?

I am fairly certain these great minds wouldn't agree with the bigoted nonsense with which you spam this forum. Einstein certainly didn't.

Einstein was an avowed Zionist.

Well duh...this is a no-brainer. Most Arabs are not Palestinian.

There are no Palestinians. There is no ethnic group, religious group or cultural group in history known as Palestinians.

Your go-to line is that anybody who endorses the Zionist manifesto is "eminent," and all others are "anti-Semites." The Counterpunch article makes specific points about exactly what is objectionable and offensive about Lewis' writings. If you would like to specifically respond to any of the criticism, please feel free.

Counterpunch is an anti-Semitic piece of junk.

Bernard Lewis is an internationally respected scholar. I have read all of Dr. Lewis's books and he praises Islam and Arabs to the point of being the target of criticism as an Islamic apologist.

Dr. Lewis's recent books on the decline of the Islamic Empire and its link with terrorism, such as, "What Went Wrong?" has ruffled feathers, however, it is based on the facts, which many Muslims do not wish to hear.

BTW Lewis' denial of the Armenian genocide is simply the standard Zionist position - see JINSA's maneuvers to prevent its recognition.

What on Earth are you even talking about. The TURKS use Lewis's remarks to claim they never caused the Armenian genocide! Last time I checked, the Turks were Muslim and not Zionists.

More canned spam from your Department of Redundancy Department. I already responded to your list of glowing praises for Lewis on one of the first hundred times you posted it. As I told you then, there are no Arabs on this list ("prominent" or otherwise):

FAIL big time. You cannot take away from Dr. Lewis's reputation as the foremost Islamic scholar of his time, perhaps, ever.

Fouad Ajami is your example of "Arabs" praising Bernard Lewis? LOL.

Last time I checked, Ajami was Arab. I can post additional remarks from Arabs praising Dr. Lewis, but, the point is already made.

Anyway -- at one time, Ajami was a supporter of Palestinian rights, but he switched over to become a shameless tool for the neocon warmongers, extolled by the likes of Daniel Pipes, Norman Podhoretz, and Paul Wolfowitz.

You won't win any debates against me using such intellectually vacuous remarks.
Thus, fail, again.

You're out of gas. Come back when you have a full tank.

 

[al Haq]

You have already been given repeated examples of Palestinian Arabs referring to themselves as Palestinians long before 1964, even as early as before World War I.

In your mind, but, not in reality.

Well, everyone else can see what I posted. Maybe it's time for a visit to your eye doctor (or psychiatrist.)

Fairy tales written by the foremost Middle East historians. You know better? Even you don't believe so.

"Foremost" would be an entirely subjective attribute in this case. Again, the specific criticisms of Lewis' work are there for you to take on with all the power of your mighty mentality (if you dare.)

Except, Arabs call themselves Palestinians for devous political purposes of destroying Israel.

Except, they called themselves Palestinians long before Israel even existed.

Former PLO leader Zuheir Mohsen...

Zuheir Mohsen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aren't you the one who lectured another member for posting Wikipedia links?

Anyway...if you bothered to even read the rest of the entry, you might have realized that Mohsen was not the leader of the PLO, but rather a leader of a Baathist pro-Syria faction of the PLO. He was appointed to that position by Hafez Assad, so that he could work inside the PLO to work toward the establishment of a Syrian-Palestinian state.

As usual, your cherry-picked snippets are suspended in a vacuum, devoid of any context.

From, what, 1400 years ago? What have you done for us, lately, except perfect methods of global terrorism?

Well let's see...for one thing, Palestinians taught European Jews who knew zip about dryland farming how to "make the desert bloom"

Einstein was an avowed Zionist.

"I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. …the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power….I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain – especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks…"

-- Albert Einstein, speech in New York, 1938.

There are no Palestinians. There is no ethnic group, religious group or cultural group in history known as Palestinians.

Keep wishing. Hasn't worked yet, though.

Counterpunch is an anti-Semitic piece of junk.

As I said, this is your automatic label for anything that dares to criticize Zionism and/or its cheerleaders, or the Israeli government's behavior.

However, since you have failed to address any of the actual points made in the article, it may be inferred that you cannot.

Bernard Lewis is an internationally respected scholar. I have read all of Dr. Lewis's books and he praises Islam and Arabs to the point of being the target of criticism as an Islamic apologist.

Dr. Lewis's recent books on the decline of the Islamic Empire and its link with terrorism, such as, "What Went Wrong?" has ruffled feathers, however, it is based on the facts, which many Muslims do not wish to hear.

Only an extremist like you could perceive Bernard Lewis as an Islamic apologist. However, just for the entertainment of the board, I invite you to quote these "praises" so that we may look at them in context.

What on Earth are you even talking about. The TURKS use Lewis's remarks to claim they never caused the Armenian genocide! Last time I checked, the Turks were Muslim and not Zionists.

Alzheimer's kicking in again? You are the one who mentioned Lewis' refusal to recognize the Armenian genocide, as an example of his alleged "pro-Arab-ness." I said that's standard Zio procedure - all the Zio tools deny it. Can't have any competition, now!

FAIL big time. You cannot take away from Dr. Lewis's reputation as the foremost Islamic scholar of his time, perhaps, ever.

That would be your and your fellow idealogues' opinion. But you still can't address the criticism in the piece, can you?

Last time I checked, Ajami was Arab. I can post additional remarks from Arabs praising Dr. Lewis, but, the point is already made.

Well you need to check again. Iranians aren't, and will never be, Arabs.

(This will be no doubt be "answered" with yet another of your lengggggggthy screeds plagiarized from the Zio Internet Archive of Cut-and-Paste Message Board Replies.)

Anyway -- at one time, Ajami was a supporter of Palestinian rights, but he switched over to become a shameless tool for the neocon warmongers, extolled by the likes of Daniel Pipes, Norman Podhoretz, and Paul Wolfowitz.

You won't win any debates against me using such intellectually vacuous remarks.
Thus, fail, again.

You're out of gas. Come back when you have a full tank.

From the dude who cuts and pastes from the likes of World Nut Daily, Netanyahu's personal website, and masada.org...

L.O.L.

At least I can write my own material, and at least I can source my quotes properly.

 

[Marc39]

Well, everyone else can see what I posted. Maybe it's time for a visit to your eye doctor (or psychiatrist.)

Fail.

Foremost" would be an entirely subjective attribute in this case. Again, the specific criticisms of Lewis' work are there for you to take on with all the power of your mighty mentality (if you dare.)

You have never read Bernard Lewis. You read discredited, anti-Semitic rags like Counterpunch, but, you have not read Bernard Lewis.

Thus, you don't know what you're talking about.

Except, they called themselves Palestinians long before Israel even existed.

Absolutely untrue. Prior to Israeli statehood, only Jews were known as Palestinians.

This has been documented.

Anyway...if you bothered to even read the rest of the entry, you might have realized that Mohsen was not the leader of the PLO, but rather a leader of a Baathist pro-Syria faction of the PLO. He was appointed to that position by Hafez Assad, so that he could work inside the PLO to work toward the establishment of a Syrian-Palestinian state.

Complete gibberish.
Mohsen spoke candidly about what we all know: The invention of the modern-day Palestinians is a ploy to create a group of people fighting against Israel.

Well let's see...for one thing, Palestinians taught European Jews who knew zip about dryland farming how to "make the desert bloom"

Complete nonsense.

Palestine was desolate, barren wasteland prior to the arrival of Jewish immigrants. Palestine was destroyed as a consequence of repeated invasions and World War I that destroyed the irrigation systems, in addition to the Black Plague and malaria.

The Palestine Royal Commission Report...

Arab population shows a remarkable increase since 1920, and it has had some share in the increased prosperity of Palestine. Many Arab landowners have benefited from the sale of land and the profitable investment of the purchase money. The fellaheen are better off on the whole than they were in 1920. This Arab progress has been partly due to the import of Jewish capital into Palestine and other factors associated with the growth of the National Home. In particular, the Arabs have benefited from social services which could not have been provided on the existing scale without the revenue obtained from the Jews.

The shortage of land is due less to purchase by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population. The Arab claims that the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamps and uncultivated when it was bought [by the Jews].

Only an extremist like you could perceive Bernard Lewis as an Islamic apologist. However, just for the entertainment of the board, I invite you to quote these "praises" so that we may look at them in context.

Fail.

Alzheimer's kicking in again? You are the one who mentioned Lewis' refusal to recognize the Armenian genocide, as an example of his alleged "pro-Arab-ness." I said that's standard Zio procedure - all the Zio tools deny it. Can't have any competition, now!

Except, Bernard Lewis initially did not support the state of Israel.

Thus, you, again, do not know what you're talking about.

And, Zionism is merely Jewish self-determination, which the UN Charter calls for, for all people.

Your ignorance is nonpareil.

You're done.

 

[Marc39]

Albert Einstein, Zionist...

I believe in the actuality of Jewish nationality, and I believe that every Jew has duties towards his co-religionists. The meaning of Zionism is thus many sided. To Jews who despair in the Ukrainian hell or in Poland it opens out hopes of a more human existence. Through the return of Jews to Palestine, and so to a normal and healthy economic life, Zionism involves a creative fusion, which should enrich mankind at large. But the main point is that Zionism must tend to enhance the dignity and self respect of the Jews in the Diaspora. I have always been annoyed by the undignified assimilationist cravings and strivings which I have observed in so many of my friends.

Through the establishment of a Jewish Commonwealth in Palestine, the Jewish people will again be in a position to bring its creative abilities into full play without hindrance. Through the Jewish University and similar institutions the Jewish people will not only help forward its own national renaissance, but will enrich its moral culture and knowledge, and will once again, as it was centuries ago, be guided into better ways of life than those which are inevitably imposed on it in present conditions.

The rebuilding of Palestine is for us Jews not a mere matter of charity or emigration: it is a problem of paramount importance for the Jewish people. Palestine is first and foremost not a refuge for East European Jews, but the incarnation of a reawakening sense of national solidarity. But is it opportune to revive and to strengthen this sense of solidarity? To that question I must reply with an unqualified affirmative, not only because that answer expresses my instinctive feeling but also, I believe, on rational grounds.

Albert Einstein, Hebrew University...

I consider this the greatest day of my life. Hitherto I have always found something to regret in the Jewish soul, and that is the forgetfulness of its own people -- forgetfulness of its being, almost. Today I have been made happy by the sight of the Jewish people learning to recognize themselves and to make themselves recognized as a force in the world. This is a great age, the age of liberation of the Jewish soul, and it has been accomplished through the Zionist movement, so that no one in the world will be able to destroy it.

The accomplishments of the Jews in just a few years in this city arouses the highest admiration. An incredibly active people, our Jews.

Two frightfully exhausting months now lie behind me, but I have the great satisfaction of having been very useful to the cause of Zionism and of having assured the foundation of the university. It is a wonder I was able to hold out. But now it is over, and there remains the beautiful feeling of having done something truly good.