The Market Wants More Stimulus

[cbirch2]

What brought us out of the dpression? From what i understand, you think somehow when all the economies around us collapsed ours got better.

.

"collapsed" is not really the right word. The economies around us were bombed to smitherines!! We had the only economy left standing after the war!! Its in all the history books. If China, Europe and Japan were bombed today it obviously would be a huge huge huge boost for our economy.

Are you serious? Seriously serious?

Can you tell me what happened when the Tsunami hit Japan this year? Was it good or bad for our economy?

Not to mention most of the world wasnt collapsing, GDP in europe was rising from is depression bottoms through WWII.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Can you tell me what happened when the Tsunami hit Japan this year? Was it good or bad for our economy?

idiotic, now our economies are very integrated. Then they were not!!!!

Not to mention most of the world wasnt collapsing, GDP in europe was rising from is depression bottoms through WWII.

nevertheless Japan didn't become a factor in the USA auto market until 1980, China not a factor till 1990, Europe not factor until 1970.
Please think before you post.

 

[cbirch2]

Lol so what should Roosevelt have done during the depression?

Please say "cut spending, have the fed raise interest rates, and stick to the gold standard"

The proximate cause was bank runs and deflation. If Democrats and Republicans had taken care of that in 1929 there would have been no depression. By time FDR took office the business depression had set in. The way out was not to declare war on business of course, but to support business recovery by supporting business with tax cuts, balanced budgets, no inflation, no unions, few regulations, no trade wars, no idiotic mal-investment pump priming socialism, and no Schecter Chicken socialism.

God damnit you are so ******* dumb.

Bank runs and deflation caused the depression? You realize these things are symptoms and not causes right? Prices deflate because of a recession; in 2008 home prices deflated because everyone was trying to sell rather than buy. Banks runs are also caused by the recession, the perception that deposits arent safe can cause solvent banks to collapse. Neither of these things are causes.

You could at least go with Friedman and say that the fed caused the depression when it raised rates.

And you want "no inflation", but at the same time the problem was deflation? What!? Idiot, even Friedman says the fed's mistake was tight monetary policy.

How could regulations have caused the recession when regulations throughout the last 70 years were undoubtably more strict than during the depression.

You would have no unions, and that would fix the depression? Hmm, seems strange considering that the two decades after WWII saw the strongest union presence ever in our country. Not to mention that the passage of a slew of pro union reforms actually coincides with the recovery from the recession, rather than taking place before it

No mal-investment from pump priming socialism? What were some of the mal-investments made by roosevelt? It was mostly infrastructure projects by the WPA and the creation of things like the SEC and SS.

Your the one that needs to read the history books. Your right, thats where the proof lies. And it disagrees with you.

The government passed a bunch of pro union reforms along with a whole bunch of regulations and "socialist mal-investment" during the recovery, not before.

 

[cbirch2]

Can you tell me what happened when the Tsunami hit Japan this year? Was it good or bad for our economy?

idiotic, now our economies are very integrated. Then they were not!!!!

Not to mention most of the world wasnt collapsing, GDP in europe was rising from is depression bottoms through WWII.

nevertheless Japan didn't become a factor in the USA auto market until 1980, China not a factor till 1990, Europe not factor until 1970.
Please think before you post.

If the world wasnt connected enough in the past, then how does your argument make any sense at all?

The main point is still the same moron. even more so because the US economy was driven much more by exports at the time. Since we now import a lot of our goods, the tsunami caused damage when it disrupted the supply chain. But in the past, when the US was a giant exporter, a similar disaster would have disrupted demand. The only difference is whether it is effecting the supply side or the demand side.

Econ 101: If every country you export to is now poor and trying to buy domestic to decrease unemployment, what happens to your exports?

If your economy is then based on exports, what happens to your economy?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Lol so what should Roosevelt have done during the depression?

Please say "cut spending, have the fed raise interest rates, and stick to the gold standard"

In 1921, Harding and Mellon let assets and liabilities reprice and it was over in 18 months.

 

[cbirch2]

Lol so what should Roosevelt have done during the depression?

Please say "cut spending, have the fed raise interest rates, and stick to the gold standard"

In 1921, Harding and Mellon let assets and liabilities reprice and it was over in 18 months.

Your such a crackpot. The depression happened 8 years after the '20-'21 recession, and between them there were multiple peaks/troughs.

Not to mention that in conservative fairy tale land, when you let everything just collapse they all get magically better. Tell me, would the economy move back to full employment as these assets deflate?

And wtf are even talking about? harding should have let assets deflate? Sorry, i didnt know a president magically had control over the prices of every asset in the country. And influences things a decade in the future.

Such a crackpot.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

If the world wasnt connected enough in the past, then how does your argument make any sense at all?

In 1945 there was at least 16 years of pent up demand from the liberal's Depression and their Depression induced world war. We immediately started trading with Europe and Japan after the war to help their bombed out economies get started. We all know that China is taking millions of American jobs. If they were bombed back to 1945 tomorrow it would be a huge boost for our economy. Catching on now?

The main point is still the same moron.

excuse me, you are the liberal here.

even more so because the US economy was driven much more by exports at the time. Since we now import a lot of our goods, the tsunami caused damage when it disrupted the supply chain. But in the past, when the US was a giant exporter, a similar disaster would have disrupted demand. The only difference is whether it is effecting the supply side or the demand side.

actually when you have no competition it is good for business. When your competition has been bomber into the stone age( Europe China Japan) that is good for your business. Catching on now? Notice how liberalism helps you lose every argument everytime? Do you really want to be a liberal all your life?

Econ 101: If every country you export to is now poor and trying to buy domestic to decrease unemployment, what happens to your exports?

If your economy is then based on exports, what happens to your economy?

after WW2 the USA was an exporting powerhouse, before the war was Hawley Smoot, trade was not very significant at all then. After the war we ran a nice surplus because we were the only source for many things, especially high end things. Catching on now? Japan paid with loans and by exporting rice and cheap hand made junk to us.
Catching on now?

 

[cbirch2]

If the world wasnt connected enough in the past, then how does your argument make any sense at all?

In 1945 there was at least 16 years of pent up demand from the liberal's Depression and their Depression induced world war. We immediately started trading with Europe and Japan after the war to help their bombed out economies get started. We all know that China is taking millions of American jobs. If they were bombed back to 1945 tomorrow it would be a huge boost for our economy. Catching on now?

Yup, now your just a massive crackpot as well. There was extra demand during the recession?

What? Thats just....thats just an impressive claim. No friend, i am not catching on. Your an idiot.

"Supply and demand helped bring about and also lengthen the Great Depression. The American farms and factories produced large amounts of goods and products during the prosperity before the Depression. On average people's wages stayed the same even as prices for these goods soared. People who lived on farms had even less than urban dwellers.

Because people had no money, they stopped buying these products, but factories and farms still continued to produce at the same rate. As the farmers and industry leaders realized fewer people were buying, they cut back production. To do this, they had to lay off more and more workers. These unemployed workers didn't have money to buy anything, so the factories continued to lay off people. This trend continued in a downward spiral until twenty-five per cent of the population was unemployed." - Southern Illinois University

The main point is still the same moron.

excuse me, you are the liberal here.

ugh blah blah

even more so because the US economy was driven much more by exports at the time. Since we now import a lot of our goods, the tsunami caused damage when it disrupted the supply chain. But in the past, when the US was a giant exporter, a similar disaster would have disrupted demand. The only difference is whether it is effecting the supply side or the demand side.

actually when you have no competition it is good for business. When your competition has been bomber into the stone age( Europe China Japan) that is good for your business. Catching on now? Notice how liberalism helps you lose every argument everytime? Do you really want to be a liberal all your life?

Wow massive idiot. What am i losing? you think the depression was caused by pent up demand. so stupid. your totally delusional.

No, the depression was not ended because all of our competition was destroyed. In reality all of our competing countries were undergoing a massive war effort, which is basically just fiscal stimulus. Look at the numbers, GDP was mostly rising in europe throughout the war.

Econ 101: If every country you export to is now poor and trying to buy domestic to decrease unemployment, what happens to your exports?

If your economy is then based on exports, what happens to your economy?

after WW2 the USA was an exporting powerhouse, before the war was Hawley Smoot, trade was not very significant at all then. After the war we ran a nice surplus because we were the only source for many things, especially high end things. Catching on now? Japan paid with loans and by exporting rice and cheap hand made junk to us.
Catching on now?

Why are you citing tariffs? Smoot-Hawley was a tariff on imports. Other countries responded with tariffs of their own, which cut US exports by 50%. Just another form of what ive said, demand for US exports droped. It drops from like 29-33, rises a little in the middle of the depression, and the drops again during ww2.

Isnt your theory that exports rose in ww2?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

If the world wasnt connected enough in the past, then how does your argument make any sense at all?

In 1945 there was at least 16 years of pent up demand from the liberal's Depression and their Depression induced world war. We immediately started trading with Europe and Japan after the war to help their bombed out economies get started. We all know that China is taking millions of American jobs. If they were bombed back to 1945 tomorrow it would be a huge boost for our economy. Catching on now? [/quote]

Yup, now your just a massive crackpot as well. There was extra demand during the recession?

What? Thats just....thats just an impressive claim. No friend, i am not catching on. Your an idiot.

if I said there was extra demand during recession I'll pay you 10,000. Bet liberal or run away again

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

"Supply and demand helped bring about and also lengthen the Great Depression. The American farms and factories produced large amounts of goods and products during the prosperity before the Depression. On average people's wages stayed the same even as prices for these goods soared. People who lived on farms had even less than urban dwellers.

Because people had no money, they stopped buying these products, but factories and farms still continued to produce at the same rate. As the farmers and industry leaders realized fewer people were buying, they cut back production. To do this, they had to lay off more and more workers. These unemployed workers didn't have money to buy anything, so the factories continued to lay off people. This trend continued in a downward spiral until twenty-five per cent of the population was unemployed." -

no idea what subject you are on or what your point is. Do you have any idea.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Wow massive idiot. What am i losing? you think the depression was caused by pent up demand. so stupid. your totally delusional.

reread for comprehension. I said American recovery in 1945 was caused by 1)15 years of pent up demand from war rationing, 2) world's bombed out economies, and 3) a return to non-war free market capitalism.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

No, the depression was not ended because all of our competition was destroyed. In reality all of our competing countries were undergoing a massive war effort, which is basically just fiscal stimulus. Look at the numbers, GDP was mostly rising in europe throughout the war.

Recovery came after war! GDP during war is meaningless. If war was stimulus we could make tanks and planes anytime we wanted and would never have to worry again about recessions. See how childlike a liberal is. A war bubble slows down an economy on balance when the bubble bursts. Even a peace time bubble where you make useful things that are consumed causes a recession. A war bubble is the worst kind of mal investment. We have recessions because of liberal bubbles. War is not the answer you clown liberal

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Why are you citing tariffs? Smoot-Hawley was a tariff on imports. Other countries responded with tariffs of their own, which cut US exports by 50%. Just another form of what ive said, demand for US exports droped. It drops from like 29-33, rises a little in the middle of the depression, and the drops again during ww2.

exports were not a factor in economy before Depression. After war we were an export powerhouse to bombed out economies. Now even you know why Depression ended. If Japan Europe and China disappeared tomorrow we woud again be an export powerhouse.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Lol so what should Roosevelt have done during the depression?

Please say "cut spending, have the fed raise interest rates, and stick to the gold standard"

In 1921, Harding and Mellon let assets and liabilities reprice and it was over in 18 months.

Your such a crackpot. The depression happened 8 years after the '20-'21 recession, and between them there were multiple peaks/troughs.

Not to mention that in conservative fairy tale land, when you let everything just collapse they all get magically better. Tell me, would the economy move back to full employment as these assets deflate?

And wtf are even talking about? harding should have let assets deflate? Sorry, i didnt know a president magically had control over the prices of every asset in the country. And influences things a decade in the future.

Such a crackpot.

You're a ******* liar. There was a Depression in 1920/21 and it ended in 18 months and started one of the biggest booms in American history that ended only when the Fed decide to strangle the US economy nearly to death.

 

[cbirch2]

If the world wasnt connected enough in the past, then how does your argument make any sense at all?

In 1945 there was at least 16 years of pent up demand from the liberal's Depression and their Depression induced world war. We immediately started trading with Europe and Japan after the war to help their bombed out economies get started. We all know that China is taking millions of American jobs. If they were bombed back to 1945 tomorrow it would be a huge boost for our economy. Catching on now?

Yup, now your just a massive crackpot as well. There was extra demand during the recession?

What? Thats just....thats just an impressive claim. No friend, i am not catching on. Your an idiot.

if I said there was extra demand during recession I'll pay you 10,000. Bet liberal or run away again[/QUOTE]

yea ok right if anything the boost from ww2 is minimal and lasts only a short time.

Unemployment bottoms out before 1945. Your recovery timescale is off by about 6 years.

 

[cbirch2]

"Supply and demand helped bring about and also lengthen the Great Depression. The American farms and factories produced large amounts of goods and products during the prosperity before the Depression. On average people's wages stayed the same even as prices for these goods soared. People who lived on farms had even less than urban dwellers.

Because people had no money, they stopped buying these products, but factories and farms still continued to produce at the same rate. As the farmers and industry leaders realized fewer people were buying, they cut back production. To do this, they had to lay off more and more workers. These unemployed workers didn't have money to buy anything, so the factories continued to lay off people. This trend continued in a downward spiral until twenty-five per cent of the population was unemployed." -

no idea what subject you are on or what your point is. Do you have any idea.

"Because people had no money, they stopped buying these products, but factories and farms still continued to produce at the same rate".

Demand fell; supply stayed constant. There was an over-supply not an over-demand.

 

[cbirch2]

No, the depression was not ended because all of our competition was destroyed. In reality all of our competing countries were undergoing a massive war effort, which is basically just fiscal stimulus. Look at the numbers, GDP was mostly rising in europe throughout the war.

Recovery came after war! GDP during war is meaningless. If war was stimulus we could make tanks and planes anytime we wanted and would never have to worry again about recessions. See how childlike a liberal is. A war bubble slows down an economy on balance when the bubble bursts. Even a peace time bubble where you make useful things that are consumed causes a recession. A war bubble is the worst kind of mal investment. We have recessions because of liberal bubbles. War is not the answer you clown liberal

Recovery did not come after the war! Are you insane!!!?? By what measure!?!?!

By what measure did the recovery start after the war? Unemployment? GDP? Price level? Private sector debt?

 

[cbirch2]

Wow massive idiot. What am i losing? you think the depression was caused by pent up demand. so stupid. your totally delusional.

reread for comprehension. I said American recovery in 1945 was caused by 1)15 years of pent up demand from war rationing, 2) world's bombed out economies, and 3) a return to non-war free market capitalism.

And the recovery started, by every single indicator, around 1939. Not in 1945.

 

[cbirch2]

Why are you citing tariffs? Smoot-Hawley was a tariff on imports. Other countries responded with tariffs of their own, which cut US exports by 50%. Just another form of what ive said, demand for US exports droped. It drops from like 29-33, rises a little in the middle of the depression, and the drops again during ww2.

exports were not a factor in economy before Depression. After war we were an export powerhouse to bombed out economies. Now even you know why Depression ended. If Japan Europe and China disappeared tomorrow we woud again be an export powerhouse.

ahem...

Your making up your theory as to why the economy recovered on the fly. Do you have, like, any stats to post at all? Any....any...


Bueller...bueller....

 

[cbirch2]

In 1921, Harding and Mellon let assets and liabilities reprice and it was over in 18 months.

Your such a crackpot. The depression happened 8 years after the '20-'21 recession, and between them there were multiple peaks/troughs.

Not to mention that in conservative fairy tale land, when you let everything just collapse they all get magically better. Tell me, would the economy move back to full employment as these assets deflate?

And wtf are even talking about? harding should have let assets deflate? Sorry, i didnt know a president magically had control over the prices of every asset in the country. And influences things a decade in the future.

Such a crackpot.

You're a ******* liar. There was a Depression in 1920/21 and it ended in 18 months and started one of the biggest booms in American history that ended only when the Fed decide to strangle the US economy nearly to death.

Lol what?

Were talking about the great depression of the 1930's. Who just jumps into a conversation about the great depression with talk of the 1920's recession, and calls it a depression? Maybe someone that doesnt know much about the great depression, and thinks it happened in the 1920s....?

Im not a ******* liar, your a ******* moron.

You realize that when people say "the depression" they usually mean the great depression, right??