The Lies, and spin about what happened in NY 26 Dist Election.

[Gunny]

The New Conservative Movement is a shooting star. They had momentum, couldn't control themselves and over reached terribly. Look at Wisconsin, Ohio, and now Ryan trying to put the hammer down on the whole country with the Medicare thing.

The bad thing now is, If they officially back off... they look like idiots. If they don't, they look like bastards.

Rock? meet Hard Place.

Idiot, meet forum.

you literally are a broken record.

Ditto, blind sheeple.

 

[Gunny]

you literally are a broken record.

Ditto, blind sheeple.

stop flirting with me

*yawn*

You wish.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

NY 26 certainly means that the economy is about to turn around, unemployment is on its way down, gas is $2, inflation is holding at 1%, the national debt has been paid off, the budget has been balanced....

 

[jillian]

Let me guess without reading ... the Dems lost. Wah.

No... the Dems won. Wah.

which is why charlie is having a melt-down.

Ah- HAH! SO , you cheated, huh? Oh wait ... I sound like YOU, don't I?

Wah. Some of y'all need to grow up. Learning to read English instead of into it would be a good start.

You need to argue with someone else. You have never been able to and it's not looking good that you will be able to keep up with me. You're too delusional partisan.

Or would you care to explain how an American Jew who supports Israel can support a President who has a bleeding heart for Palestine?

er... no. you don't sound like me at all. i knew we lost in 2010...same as i know the wacko rightwingnut lost today.

sorry... we've spent days talking about israel. you want to rant, rant at someone else.

that or tell your fellow rightwingnuts to stop making up phantom reasons for the fact that a dem lost jack kemp's seat.

 

[thereisnospoon]

So, the left and dems and Liberal Media are in full spin mode. Trying to say the Result of the Election in NY means Americans have turned away from Republicans already.

Lets examine the Facts. The Democrat did win, by a margin on 5%, She got less than 50% of the Vote. She had help in the form of a former Democratic Candidate who ran under the Tea Party, despite not having any Tea Party support, or Endorsement. This split the Conservative vote, and the Dem won an Election she could not have won in a 2 Candidate race.

Only the Delusional Democrats could think having to pull a fast one, and slip a Democrat Plant in as a tea Party Candidate to win an Election, Means the American Voters are back on their side.

Only the Delusional Democrats would characterize winning an Election with less than 50% of the vote as some kind of overwhelming statement in their favor.

The Simple truth is that with out the Former Democratic Candidate pretending to be a tea Party candidate. The Republican would have won by 4%.

You guys are just completely off your rockers.

GOP on defensive over Medicare after special election loss - CNN.com

That's not news. It's opinion.

 

[Zander]

Republicans are putting forward serious and often politically risky solutions to the nation's most pressing problems. It takes a lot of courage to tackle these HUGE problems. They are facing Democrats who are content to sit back and play class-warfare games and stoke the public's fear. It's exactly why we are broke - in DC, it's always politics over country, especially when a lot of voters are gullible fools......

 

[jillian]

Republicans are putting forward serious and often politically risky solutions to the nation's most pressing problems. It takes a lot of courage to tackle these HUGE problems. They are facing Democrats who are content to sit back and play class-warfare games and stoke the public's fear. It's exactly why we are broke - in DC, it's always politics over country.

Paul Ryan's plan was not a "serious" plan. It was the same "we want to kill all new deal policies" bit that the far right has been doing for years.

It is not politically feasible because Americans don't mind making sacrifices when they're SHARED sacrifices. They aren't going to sacrifice when the only ones being asked to give up anything are middle class and can least afford to.

Until republicans understand that you don't voluntarily cut the nation's income when there are bills to pay, you're going to find the american voter is going to tell them to take a hike.

Finally, I'd point out that health care was also something that was desperately in need of being addressed and was (as we saw in 2010) politically risky. The repubs were content during that election cycle to sit back and just say no.

I figure that's politics. But making congressmen stand firm on this because the GOP is afraid of it's "base", is not good politics.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I doubt this was intentional by the OP, and the rest who agree with him,

but the spin here is that conservatives in this district who favor the Tea Party voted for Davis because they're too stupid to know a real Tea Party candidate from a fake one.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So, the left and dems and Liberal Media are in full spin mode. Trying to say the Result of the Election in NY means Americans have turned away from Republicans already.

Lets examine the Facts. The Democrat did win, by a margin on 5%, She got less than 50% of the Vote. She had help in the form of a former Democratic Candidate who ran under the Tea Party, despite not having any Tea Party support, or Endorsement. This split the Conservative vote, and the Dem won an Election she could not have won in a 2 Candidate race.

Only the Delusional Democrats could think having to pull a fast one, and slip a Democrat Plant in as a tea Party Candidate to win an Election, Means the American Voters are back on their side.

Only the Delusional Democrats would characterize winning an Election with less than 50% of the vote as some kind of overwhelming statement in their favor.

The Simple truth is that with out the Former Democratic Candidate pretending to be a tea Party candidate. The Republican would have won by 4%.

You guys are just completely off your rockers.

First, you assume that all the Tea Party vote would have gone to the Republicans. That may or may not be true.

But even if it were true and the Republican won, that's so totally not the point. The Republicans won that district with 74% of the vote in 2010. The Democrat candidate won the same percentage of votes as they won in 2006 when the Dems swept the country.

I do think one should not read too much into a special election, but if the Republicans stick their head in the sand and ignore this, they risk getting hammered next year.

The Tea Party is NOT popular right now. Here in Florida, Tea Party governor Rick Scott has an approval rating of 29%, the lowest in recorded history, whereas his negatives are 57%. Poll after poll has shown that even though people like the idea of reducing the deficit, they are decidedly against cutting specific programs that affect them.

He didn't assume that. 9% of the idiots that would have voted for a Republican were stupid enough to vote for the Fake Tea Party candidate. That was just enough for the Dem to win.

It appears that trickery and lies still work on voters.

You know, if that were the case here, you'd finally be admitting what we've been trying to explain to you people for ages...

...Tea Partiers are stupid people.

 

[NYcarbineer]

None of you wingnuts want to explain why when Davis's support went from 23% to 12%,

almost all of those voters that left him ended up with Hochul?

Why would that be if his support was conservative and he was pulling from Corwin???????

 

[EriktheRed]

So, the left and dems and Liberal Media are in full spin mode. Trying to say the Result of the Election in NY means Americans have turned away from Republicans already.

Lets examine the Facts. The Democrat did win, by a margin on 5%, She got less than 50% of the Vote. She had help in the form of a former Democratic Candidate who ran under the Tea Party, despite not having any Tea Party support, or Endorsement. This split the Conservative vote, and the Dem won an Election she could not have won in a 2 Candidate race.

Only the Delusional Democrats could think having to pull a fast one, and slip a Democrat Plant in as a tea Party Candidate to win an Election, Means the American Voters are back on their side.

Only the Delusional Democrats would characterize winning an Election with less than 50% of the vote as some kind of overwhelming statement in their favor.

The Simple truth is that with out the Former Democratic Candidate pretending to be a tea Party candidate. The Republican would have won by 4%.

You guys are just completely off your rockers.

 

[JimH52]

The public may have been able to stomach cuts in Medicare. Perhaps is they could have seen it saving the program in the long run. But when Ryan and his cohorts married the medicare death to tax cuts for the rich, they went way over the line. They lost Independents. They lost their way.

 

[Charles_Main]

Threaten medicare and you lose.

Yep, only the problem is Medicare is threatened by inaction as well as the wrong action.

Something has to be done. It is just as irresponsible to sit around saying nothing is wrong with Medicare, as it is to try and get rid of it.

 

[Toro]

Republicans are putting forward serious and often politically risky solutions to the nation's most pressing problems. It takes a lot of courage to tackle these HUGE problems. They are facing Democrats who are content to sit back and play class-warfare games and stoke the public's fear. It's exactly why we are broke - in DC, it's always politics over country.

Paul Ryan's plan was not a "serious" plan. It was the same "we want to kill all new deal policies" bit that the far right has been doing for years.

It is not politically feasible because Americans don't mind making sacrifices when they're SHARED sacrifices. They aren't going to sacrifice when the only ones being asked to give up anything are middle class and can least afford to.

Until republicans understand that you don't voluntarily cut the nation's income when there are bills to pay, you're going to find the american voter is going to tell them to take a hike.

Finally, I'd point out that health care was also something that was desperately in need of being addressed and was (as we saw in 2010) politically risky. The repubs were content during that election cycle to sit back and just say no.

I figure that's politics. But making congressmen stand firm on this because the GOP is afraid of it's "base", is not good politics.

I give credit to Ryan, because this is a serious issue that requires serious answers. Thus far, the Democrats have not offered a serious answer. You might not like Ryan's plan, but it is a serious plan to rectify a serious problem.

We have two options, both of which are not mutually exclusive.

1. Cut spending.
2. Raise taxes.

Americans are living in this la-la land that they can have all these programs and not pay for them, or at least have other people pay for them. That's fantasy. Raising taxes on the rich is not enough. Democrats are going to have to say "If you want these programs, we have to raise taxes on everyone." Then we can have an adult conversation about what we want as a society. Thus far, we aren't having an adult conversation. At least Ryan is trying. But this is an interesting election result.

 

[Zander]

Republicans are putting forward serious and often politically risky solutions to the nation's most pressing problems. It takes a lot of courage to tackle these HUGE problems. They are facing Democrats who are content to sit back and play class-warfare games and stoke the public's fear. It's exactly why we are broke - in DC, it's always politics over country.

Paul Ryan's plan was not a "serious" plan. It was the same "we want to kill all new deal policies" bit that the far right has been doing for years.

It is not politically feasible because Americans don't mind making sacrifices when they're SHARED sacrifices. They aren't going to sacrifice when the only ones being asked to give up anything are middle class and can least afford to.

Until republicans understand that you don't voluntarily cut the nation's income when there are bills to pay, you're going to find the american voter is going to tell them to take a hike.

Finally, I'd point out that health care was also something that was desperately in need of being addressed and was (as we saw in 2010) politically risky. The repubs were content during that election cycle to sit back and just say no.

I figure that's politics. But making congressmen stand firm on this because the GOP is afraid of it's "base", is not good politics.

Ryan's plan is a serious plan, it has flaws, but it actually saves Medicare and starts us on the road to fiscal sanity. Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid all need to be reformed. Playing class warfare games and using MEDISCARE tactics for political gain is despicable regardless of which party is doing it.

There is no "shared sacrifice" in this country. The poor pay next to nothing in taxes, the middle a tiny bit more. It all falls on the "rich" - the talented achievers - we pay the lions share. Yet the only "solution" liberals ever proffer is "tax the rich" or "tax the oil companies". It is shameless. We need to cut spending. Tax increases if any, need to be tied to mandatory spending cuts and entitlement reform. Starting with repealing Obamacare.

PS- Obamacare didn't fix anything. It is yet another entitlement that pushes us further along the road to bankruptcy.

 

[Toro]

Threaten medicare and you lose.

Yep, only the problem is Medicare is threatened by inaction as well as the wrong action.

Something has to be done. It is just as irresponsible to sit around saying nothing is wrong with Medicare, as it is to try and get rid of it.

Bingo. It will eventually eat the budget, which means raising taxes, slashing everything else or going bankrupt. There are no other options.

 

[jillian]

Republicans are putting forward serious and often politically risky solutions to the nation's most pressing problems. It takes a lot of courage to tackle these HUGE problems. They are facing Democrats who are content to sit back and play class-warfare games and stoke the public's fear. It's exactly why we are broke - in DC, it's always politics over country.

Paul Ryan's plan was not a "serious" plan. It was the same "we want to kill all new deal policies" bit that the far right has been doing for years.

It is not politically feasible because Americans don't mind making sacrifices when they're SHARED sacrifices. They aren't going to sacrifice when the only ones being asked to give up anything are middle class and can least afford to.

Until republicans understand that you don't voluntarily cut the nation's income when there are bills to pay, you're going to find the american voter is going to tell them to take a hike.

Finally, I'd point out that health care was also something that was desperately in need of being addressed and was (as we saw in 2010) politically risky. The repubs were content during that election cycle to sit back and just say no.

I figure that's politics. But making congressmen stand firm on this because the GOP is afraid of it's "base", is not good politics.

I give credit to Ryan, because this is a serious issue that requires serious answers. Thus far, the Democrats have not offered a serious answer. You might not like Ryan's plan, but it is a serious plan to rectify a serious problem.

We have two options, both of which are not mutually exclusive.

1. Cut spending.
2. Raise taxes.

Americans are living in this la-la land that they can have all these programs and not pay for them, or at least have other people pay for them. That's fantasy. Raising taxes on the rich is not enough. Democrats are going to have to say "If you want these programs, we have to raise taxes on everyone." Then we can have an adult conversation about what we want as a society. Thus far, we aren't having an adult conversation. At least Ryan is trying. But this is an interesting election result.

I would agree with you about Ryan seriously addressing issues if i saw it as more economic than ideologic. to me, it's a facile excuse to do what many on the right have wanted to do since roosevelt. Everything I've seen, and please correct me if I'm wrong, seems to indicate that Ryan's plan would have cost us more than the current plan. Additionally, from a purely human perspective, how do we ask middle class, elderly people to sacrifice when they won't restore the bush tax cuts?

I agree we can cut spending and raise taxes. but, to me at least, it seems that both are needed. Loopholes have to be closed. Corporate welfare has to end. Companies have to stop getting rewarded for offshoring and outsourcing. Finally, unless we're willing to look at military spending, as well, then to me, at least, the middle class has every reason to object.

I agree with you that the options are not mutually exclusive. But the republicans seem to be making it so.

 

[American Horse]

So, the left and dems and Liberal Media are in full spin mode. Trying to say the Result of the Election in NY means Americans have turned away from Republicans already.

Lets examine the Facts. The Democrat did win, by a margin on 5%, She got less than 50% of the Vote. She had help in the form of a former Democratic Candidate who ran under the Tea Party, despite not having any Tea Party support, or Endorsement. This split the Conservative vote, and the Dem won an Election she could not have won in a 2 Candidate race.

Only the Delusional Democrats could think having to pull a fast one, and slip a Democrat Plant in as a tea Party Candidate to win an Election, Means the American Voters are back on their side.

Only the Delusional Democrats would characterize winning an Election with less than 50% of the vote as some kind of overwhelming statement in their favor.

The Simple truth is that with out the Former Democratic Candidate pretending to be a tea Party candidate. The Republican would have won by 4%.

You guys are just completely off your rockers.

First, you assume that all the Tea Party vote would have gone to the Republicans. That may or may not be true.

But even if it were true and the Republican won, that's so totally not the point. The Republicans won that district with 74% of the vote in 2010. The Democrat candidate won the same percentage of votes as they won in 2006 when the Dems swept the country.

I do think one should not read too much into a special election, but if the Republicans stick their head in the sand and ignore this, they risk getting hammered next year.

The Tea Party is NOT popular right now. Here in Florida, Tea Party governor Rick Scott has an approval rating of 29%, the lowest in recorded history, whereas his negatives are 57%. Poll after poll has shown that even though people like the idea of reducing the deficit, they are decidedly against cutting specific programs that affect them.

The Democrat who won campaigned against Obamacare's cuts to Medicare which amount to $500b in 10-years. The Republican did not adequately get behind conservative issues and seemed clueless in that regard.

The only significance to the 2nd Democrat who ran under the banner of the T-party movement, was that his candidacy muddied the meaning of the election, giving the Ds and their media backers this ambiguous state of affairs to spin as a conservative defeat when the winner ran more as an outsider conservative.

It seems to me that the greatest threat to our democracy is a media that facilitates intimidation of conservatives such that they aren't willingly full supporters of their philosophy or their principles. That tactic is used here on this very forum.

As an aside, note that the US Senate took up two budgets for a vote today: Obama's got 97 votes nay and zero votes yay; congressman Ryan's budget got 47 yay votes and 50 nay votes. That news item should get significant reportage and analysis in our media, but how many have heard? I heard it on FNC in The Special Report with Bret Baier and in an afternoon report. Any one else anywhere else?

 

[Greenbeard]

Republicans are putting forward serious and often politically risky solutions to the nation's most pressing problems.

Ah, the Lost Cause argument for Ryan's downfall. I can understand the allure of that kind of thinking, but ultimately it's bunk.

Ryan and his stooges' problem isn't that they're too noble, fighting the good fight for good policy in the face of an insurmountable onslaught from that mean, feckless left (although Ryan himself does seem partial to whimpering out this excuse in interviews). Their problem is that they opted for the worst combination of policies possible, in a bid to write a love note to the base instead of actually tackling the nation's problems head-on.

Ryan would've fared better if he had offered suggestions that he's worked on before in a bipartisan fashion. For example, his decision to reject real premium support models for Medicare (which do in fact have some support on the other side of the political and ideological spectrum from Ryan) in favor of a simple voucher coupled with the elimination of the choice of traditional Medicare defies a policy explanation--opting for serious reform proposals would've at least robbed his opponents of some of their ammunition but instead he went with the awful structure he did. Yet he still pathetically tried to insist his was a premium support plan to try and obscure the fact that he abandoned policy in favor of reactionary political maneuvering. His flip flops on the exchange concept (first for, then against, now for again--but also against, in the same proposal) in the space of 2 years are just more of the same political positioning.

His "bold" plan to eventually (in 30 years) eliminate the deficit by slashing health insurance for the poor and elderly, dismantling Medicare, and lowering the top tax bracket confused is not a "serious" solution to anything, other than the pressing question of "how can Paul Ryan and the other establishment Republicans whose asses have been filling Congressional seats for a decade-plus make themselves heroes to the far right grassroots that recently decided to care about politics?" But in opting to pander to the far right instead of pushing policy proposals that are actually serious, they might've skipped past hero and gone right to martyr status.

 

[Zander]

Republicans are putting forward serious and often politically risky solutions to the nation's most pressing problems.

Ah, the Lost Cause argument for Ryan's downfall. I can understand the allure of that kind of thinking, but ultimately it's bunk.

Ryan and his stooges' problem isn't that they're too noble, fighting the good fight for good policy in the face of an insurmountable onslaught from that mean, feckless left (although Ryan himself does seem partial to whimpering out this excuse in interviews). Their problem is that they opted for the worst combination of policies possible, in a bid to write a love note to the base instead of actually tackling the nation's problems head-on.

Ryan would've fared better if he had offered suggestions that he's worked on before in a bipartisan fashion. For example, his decision to reject real premium support models for Medicare (which do in fact have some support on the other side of the political and ideological spectrum from Ryan) in favor of a simple voucher coupled with the elimination of the choice of traditional Medicare defies a policy explanation--opting for serious reform proposals would've at least robbed his opponents of some of their ammunition but instead he went with the awful structure he did. Yet he still pathetically tried to insist his was a premium support plan to try and obscure the fact that he abandoned policy in favor of reactionary political maneuvering. His flip flops on the exchange concept (first for, then against, now for again--but also against, in the same proposal) in the space of 2 years are just more of the same political positioning.

His "bold" plan to eventually (in 30 years) eliminate the deficit by slashing health insurance for the poor and elderly, dismantling Medicare, and lowering the top tax bracket confused is not a "serious" solution to anything, other than the pressing question of "how can Paul Ryan and the other establishment Republicans whose asses have been filling Congressional seats for a decade-plus make themselves heroes to the far right grassroots that recently decided to care about politics?" But in opting to pander to the far right instead of pushing policy proposals that are actually serious, they might've skipped past hero and gone right to martyr status.

The Ryan plan wasn't perfect, but it was a plan- with details. The Dem plan is what? Tax the rich? Demonize the Oil companies? More entitlements?? Hope and Change?

PS - Obama's budget got ZERO votes for it.......ZERO!!! His party has a majority in the Senate and his budget received ZERO votes. Let that sink in while you continue to assign blame to Republicans... who control only 1/2 of 1/3 of the US Government......