The liberals' official hostility to religion takes a strange new turn

[bodecea]

The Constitution had many Authors...

Twit

Do you understand why Madison is known as the father of the constitution?

As long as YOU understand that The Declaraion is also part of it and is codified by The Constitution...and is replete with references to GOD.

Clear?

Whaaaaa?

 

[bodecea]

The founders designed a system free of religion.

Pretnd they didnt but the facts are clear

You really don't know much about the Founders, do you?

The Founders designed a system where religion was Integral. That's why they protected it from government interference.

Whoa!!!!

 

[Foxfyre]

In fairness to TM, she like many other anti-religion types chose Madison to quote. He was the Founder who was most adament that government should have no say whatsoever in religion and no religion should have any power over government. Of all the Founders he was the most strict in his opinion that religion not be part of Congressional activities, but he was often overruled by his colleagues and he himself relented in that by the time of the War of 1812. But it is easy to use some of his words to demonstrate that he was opposed to any mixing of government and religion. It is dishonest, however, to present his views as typical of what the Founders believed and taught which was that government may not dictate any religious view to the people nor can any religious group exercise any power over government.

And, that same Madison wrote this:

Because finally, the equal right of every citizen to the free exercise of his religion according to the dictates of conscience is held by the same tenure with all our other rights. If we recur to its origin, it is equally the gift of nature; if we weigh its importance, it cannot be less dear to us; if we consult the Declaration of Rights which pertain to the good people of Virginia, as the basic and foundation of government, it is enumerated with equal solemnity, or rather studied emphasis. . . .

And this:

We hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth that religion, or the duty which we owe our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence. The religion, then, of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man: and that it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate. . . .

Both from James Madison's Memorial and Remonstrance to the Assemby of Virginia

 

[bodecea]

Maybe Kwanzaa would be more appropo?

Yeah, go there!!! Any wonder we look askance whenever someone says the "T" party isn't racist?

Nothing Racist about it. Kwanzaa is a made up holiday to thwart traditions. Those that choose to follow it are perfectly free to persue it...we are after all a Free nation for the time being...I personally as an Individual choose NOT to persue but for my own beliefs.

Funny that...

To "thwart traditions"? Tell us...what traditions does it "thwart"?

 

[Truthmatters]

Madison said himself they had to be kept apart to protect both.

 

[Liability]

Madison said himself they had to be kept apart to protect both.

Again, stupid: that MEANS that the government cannot insert itself into the church (or synagogue or mosque) and the church (or synagogue or mosque) cannot insert itself into the government.

It does NOT mean that there is or should be any Constitutionally valid prohibition against Congress-critters saying "Merry Christmas" to close out a franked letter to their constituents.

 

[PredFan]

In fairness to TM, she like many other anti-religion types chose Madison to quote. He was the Founder who was most adament that government should have no say whatsoever in religion and no religion should have any power over government. Of all the Founders he was the most strict in his opinion that religion not be part of Congressional activities, but he was often overruled by his colleagues and he himself relented in that by the time of the War of 1812. But it is easy to use some of his words to demonstrate that he was opposed to any mixing of government and religion. It is dishonest, however, to present his views as typical of what the Founders believed and taught.

And, that same Madison wrote this:

Because finally, the equal right of every citizen to the free exercise of his religion according to the dictates of conscience is held by the same tenure with all our other rights. If we recur to its origin, it is equally the gift of nature; if we weigh its importance, it cannot be less dear to us; if we consult the Declaration of Rights which pertain to the good people of Virginia, as the basic and foundation of government, it is enumerated with equal solemnity, or rather studied emphasis. . . .

And this:

We hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth that religion, or the duty which we owe our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence. The religion, then, of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man: and that it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate. . . .

Both from James Madison's Memorial and Remonstrance to the Assemby of Virginia

Absolutely right. It still doesn't say what TM wants it to say.

 

[PredFan]

Yeah, go there!!! Any wonder we look askance whenever someone says the "T" party isn't racist?

Nothing Racist about it. Kwanzaa is a made up holiday to thwart traditions. Those that choose to follow it are perfectly free to persue it...we are after all a Free nation for the time being...I personally as an Individual choose NOT to persue but for my own beliefs.

Funny that...

To "thwart traditions"? Tell us...what traditions does it "thwart"?

Actually Kwaanza was invented by a black activist in the 1960s supposedly to combat the "Exploitation of blacks during the holidays", whatever that means.

 

[peach174]

For crying out loud people!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's a FEDERAL HOLIDAY passed by congress and singed by one of our presidents

President Ulysses S. Grant declared Christmas a legal holiday in 1870. The bill to make Christmas a holiday was introduced into the House of Representatives by Rep. Burton Chauncey Cook (Illinois). It was approved and passed to the Senate on June 24, 1870. When both houses had agreed on the wording, it was passed on to President Grant, who signed it on June 28, 1870.

It's a Federal Holiday and the Feds get the day off and they can't say the name of the Holiday?

 

[bodecea]

Holiday...you mean Holy Day...right?

Holiday is a term derivitive of religious Holy Days...Times of reflection and Religious fervor...

Holy to what religion?

And which religion had Labor Day as a Holy Day? Veterans Day? Groundhog Day? Columbus Day?

You're just plain stupid. I gave the definitions verbatim and thier origins within this thread. You should learn to read. Your argument is shallow, vapid, and off point.

Look...another Tommy non-answer.

 

[Truthmatters]

For crying out loud people!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's a FEDERAL HOLIDAY passed by congress and singed by one of our presidents

President Ulysses S. Grant declared Christmas a legal holiday in 1870. The bill to make Christmas a holiday was introduced into the House of Representatives by Rep. Burton Chauncey Cook (Illinois). It was approved and passed to the Senate on June 24, 1870. When both houses had agreed on the wording, it was passed on to President Grant, who signed it on June 28, 1870.

It's a Federal Holiday and the Feds get the day off and they can't say the name of the Holiday?

You dont seem to know what the thread is about, go back and read what its about

 

[Katzndogz]

Nothing Racist about it. Kwanzaa is a made up holiday to thwart traditions. Those that choose to follow it are perfectly free to persue it...we are after all a Free nation for the time being...I personally as an Individual choose NOT to persue but for my own beliefs.

Funny that...

To "thwart traditions"? Tell us...what traditions does it "thwart"?

Actually Kwaanza was invented by a black activist in the 1960s supposedly to combat the "Exploitation of blacks during the holidays", whatever that means.

It was Maulana Karenga who dreamed it up while he was in prison serving time for the torture of two women.

In 1971, Karenga "was sentenced to one to ten years in prison on counts of felonious assault and false imprisonment".[10] One of the victims gave testimony of how Karenga and other men tortured her and another woman. The woman claimed to have been stripped and beaten with an electrical cord. Karenga's former wife, Brenda Lorraine Karenga, testified that he sat on the other woman’s stomach while another man forced water into her mouth through a hose.

A May 14, 1971, article in the Los Angeles Times described the testimony of one of the women:


"Deborah Jones, who once was given the Swahili title of an African queen, said she and Gail Davis were whipped with an electrical cord and beaten with a karate baton after being ordered to remove their clothes. She testified that a hot soldering iron was placed in Miss Davis' mouth and placed against Miss Davis' face and that one of her own big toes was tightened in a vise. Karenga, head of US, also put detergent and running hoses in their mouths, she said. They also were hit on the heads with toasters

Nice guy a real role model.

 

[Foxfyre]

For crying out loud people!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's a FEDERAL HOLIDAY passed by congress and singed by one of our presidents

President Ulysses S. Grant declared Christmas a legal holiday in 1870. The bill to make Christmas a holiday was introduced into the House of Representatives by Rep. Burton Chauncey Cook (Illinois). It was approved and passed to the Senate on June 24, 1870. When both houses had agreed on the wording, it was passed on to President Grant, who signed it on June 28, 1870.

It's a Federal Holiday and the Feds get the day off and they can't say the name of the Holiday?

You dont seem to know what the thread is about, go back and read what its about

Well when I read the OP it was about Congressmen not being allowed to say "Merry Christmas" in official correspondence. So how is Peach not addressing that specific thing?

What do you think it is about. Did the thread author change it and I missed it?

(The board is so slow for me today I'm gonna go find something else to do for awhile, but I do think addressing the appropriateness of a Congressman saying "Merry Christmas" to his/her constituents is fair game for discussion and directly addresses the OP.

 

[bodecea]

Nothing Racist about it. Kwanzaa is a made up holiday to thwart traditions. Those that choose to follow it are perfectly free to persue it...we are after all a Free nation for the time being...I personally as an Individual choose NOT to persue but for my own beliefs.

Funny that...

To "thwart traditions"? Tell us...what traditions does it "thwart"?

Actually Kwaanza was invented by a black activist in the 1960s supposedly to combat the "Exploitation of blacks during the holidays", whatever that means.

So...where does the "thwarting" come in?

 

[PredFan]

To "thwart traditions"? Tell us...what traditions does it "thwart"?

Actually Kwaanza was invented by a black activist in the 1960s supposedly to combat the "Exploitation of blacks during the holidays", whatever that means.

It was Maulana Karenga who dreamed it up while he was in prison serving time for the torture of two women.

In 1971, Karenga "was sentenced to one to ten years in prison on counts of felonious assault and false imprisonment".[10] One of the victims gave testimony of how Karenga and other men tortured her and another woman. The woman claimed to have been stripped and beaten with an electrical cord. Karenga's former wife, Brenda Lorraine Karenga, testified that he sat on the other woman’s stomach while another man forced water into her mouth through a hose.

A May 14, 1971, article in the Los Angeles Times described the testimony of one of the women:


"Deborah Jones, who once was given the Swahili title of an African queen, said she and Gail Davis were whipped with an electrical cord and beaten with a karate baton after being ordered to remove their clothes. She testified that a hot soldering iron was placed in Miss Davis' mouth and placed against Miss Davis' face and that one of her own big toes was tightened in a vise. Karenga, head of US, also put detergent and running hoses in their mouths, she said. They also were hit on the heads with toasters

Nice guy a real role model.

Wow! There was more to the story? Thanks.

 

[peach174]

For crying out loud people!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's a FEDERAL HOLIDAY passed by congress and singed by one of our presidents

President Ulysses S. Grant declared Christmas a legal holiday in 1870. The bill to make Christmas a holiday was introduced into the House of Representatives by Rep. Burton Chauncey Cook (Illinois). It was approved and passed to the Senate on June 24, 1870. When both houses had agreed on the wording, it was passed on to President Grant, who signed it on June 28, 1870.

It's a Federal Holiday and the Feds get the day off and they can't say the name of the Holiday?

You dont seem to know what the thread is about, go back and read what its about

TM
If congress made it a Federal Holiday, then congress can say Merry Christmas.

 

[Liability]

For crying out loud people!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's a FEDERAL HOLIDAY passed by congress and singed by one of our presidents

President Ulysses S. Grant declared Christmas a legal holiday in 1870. The bill to make Christmas a holiday was introduced into the House of Representatives by Rep. Burton Chauncey Cook (Illinois). It was approved and passed to the Senate on June 24, 1870. When both houses had agreed on the wording, it was passed on to President Grant, who signed it on June 28, 1870.

It's a Federal Holiday and the Feds get the day off and they can't say the name of the Holiday?

You dont seem to know what the thread is about, go back and read what its about

Well when I read the OP it was about Congressmen not being allowed to say "Merry Christmas" in official correspondence. So how is Peach not addressing that specific thing?

What do you think it is about. Did the thread author change it and I missed it?

(The board is so slow for me today I'm gonna go find something else to do for awhile, but I do think addressing the appropriateness of a Congressman saying "Merry Christmas" to his/her constituents is fair game for discussion and directly addresses the OP.

You are right and peach was clearly not off topic.

The REASON that the Franking Committee forbids Congress-critters from using the phrase "Merry Christmas" in their franked mail is the idiotic liberal misconception about the nature of the Constitutional instructions to the government about religion.

What Peach pointed out was that Congress MADE Christmas Day a Federal Holiday. So it is at least passing strange that the very same Holiday cannot be acknowledged in franked Congressional mail.

 

[PredFan]

To "thwart traditions"? Tell us...what traditions does it "thwart"?

Actually Kwaanza was invented by a black activist in the 1960s supposedly to combat the "Exploitation of blacks during the holidays", whatever that means.

So...where does the "thwarting" come in?

I don't know, but his point that it was a made up religion is a valid one.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Madison said himself they had to be kept apart to protect both.

Again, stupid: that MEANS that the government cannot insert itself into the church (or synagogue or mosque) and the church (or synagogue or mosque) cannot insert itself into the government.

It does NOT mean that there is or should be any Constitutionally valid prohibition against Congress-critters saying "Merry Christmas" to close out a franked letter to their constituents.

What if they're Jewish? That could be considered offensive, and don't most GOP types consider themselves friends of Israel?

What if they're Buddhist? Hindu? Or any other religious belief for that matter?

Why should Christmas (a uniquely Christian holiday) be the only one to be used?

 

[SillyWabbit]

For crying out loud people!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's a FEDERAL HOLIDAY passed by congress and singed by one of our presidents

President Ulysses S. Grant declared Christmas a legal holiday in 1870. The bill to make Christmas a holiday was introduced into the House of Representatives by Rep. Burton Chauncey Cook (Illinois). It was approved and passed to the Senate on June 24, 1870. When both houses had agreed on the wording, it was passed on to President Grant, who signed it on June 28, 1870.

It's a Federal Holiday and the Feds get the day off and they can't say the name of the Holiday?

Okay, now I know I am a little brain dead. I don't know why it didn't jump right out at me. This should have been the first--and only--response to this ridiculous issue.
Let's hope no one in Congress reads this. They might try re-naming (or removing) Christmas.