The Lessons of History

[Big Fitz]

I think everything you post is framed in concrete by your biases. Truth, introspection and honesty can never penetrate that famwork.

You're looking in a mirror when typing that, aren't you?

No, you're looking in the mirror when you say that, aren't YOU!
[see, I can default to the second grade too, I simply feel silly doing it. Why don't you?]

Oh good lord. I'm going to have to step back lest that beam of hypocrisy in your eye hits me.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5P5eQiKNQs]Pee-wee's Big Adventure - I know you are but what am I - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Wry Catcher]

Huh.... that's actually good advice.

Maybe you should apply your same standard to Obama. Yes?

I have. Have you?

1. The world in which the President inherited was in (understatement) disarray. Not only did President Obama not have time, he did not have a road map on how to respond to the second greatest economic crisis in our nation's history.

Agree or disagree?

2. The political climate into which the President operated was poisoned even before he took the oath of office. The conservative media and conservatives in general dogged his every move and openly proclaimed they hoped he failed.

Agree or disagree?

3. The economic conditions in Europe continue to worry financial markets negatively impacting our economy. The President has little or no influence to fix Europe

Agree or disagree?

4. President Obama supported the Auto Bailout which commenced under the former President Bush. It prevented a much higher unemployment rate in the U.S.

Agree or disagree?

5. The Right Wing in American politics has continued to label President Obama as a Socialist or Marxist and that includes the Republican Leadership in the Congress: Boehner and McConnell.

In addition to a world-wide economic slowdown nations which look to American's leadership are dismayed by our nation divided and this has perpetuated the economic malaise of the recovery.

Agree or disagree?

I think the reform of health care in America is necessary but that putting that issue on the front burner was a mistake.

I think supporting the Lilly Ledbetter and signing it into law was politically heroic given the past and current examples of misogyny in our country.

I think the President has done a fine job of beginning to correct the mess he inherited under difficult conditions, that the efforts by the GOP in general and the far right fringe in particular has created "house divided" maybe as great as the President Lincoln inherited in 1861 (and I think that was done intentionally)

Agree or disagree?

First of all, Obama didn't "inherit" anything...he campaigned for it and told us that he had a plan to fix things and that he would hit the ground running to do so. The fact that he STILL doesn't have a "road map" to fix things 3 1/2 years later says volumes about his abilities or lack thereof.

As GWB iherited the world left by Clinton, Obama inherited a world from GWB. That you see no difference is not surprising.

The political climate was not "poisoned" when he took office. Barack Obama came into office with an amazingly high approval rating and Super Majorities in both the House and Senate to work with. He HAD an incredible opportunity, Wry that he squandered on ObamaCare. What so many of you fail to remember is that when Mitch McConnell made his statement that his number one priority was replacing Obama it was AFTER Barry's first year in office and his "elections have consequences...I won" attitude towards the GOP. Was the political climate "poisoned" by the end of that first year? You bet. When you lock the opposition out in the hall and have Nancy and Harry write legislation that gets rammed through by whatever means necessary then you're going to be disliked by the other side. By the end of Obama's first year in office, Republicans LOATHED him.

The reform of health care was necessary. The way it was handled was a mistake, a mistake on both sides of the aisle and one funded and supported by the special interests who were defending the life of their golden goose not the citizens of this nation

President Obama could just as easily pushed GM to reorganize under bankruptcy, Wry. He didn't do so because he wanted to "save" the auto industry...he did so because he owed a debt to the United Auto Workers. He intervened not to save the the auto industry but to save union contracts that would have been tossed in a reorganization.

Bullshit. That's nothing but propaganda.

President Obama is neither a Communist nor a Socialist...he's simply an incompetent.

You're entitle to your opinion. I disagree. Compared to GWB President Obama is uber competent, has a plan but cannot get the plan in operation.

Other country's are "dismayed" by the fact that we don't have a coherent economic plan going forward. Our credit was downgraded because we are not perceived to have the political backbone to make tough choices in reducing our deficit. Given this Administrations total lack of ANY substantial cuts to spending combined with it's inability to grow the economy, that perception still holds true.

We don't have a coherent economic policy because the far right has taken over the GOP and the leadership in the Congress is focused solely on winning the next election. Governance is never discussed and bills are focused on securing the loyalty of the various factions within the GOP not on job creation.

 

[The Rabbi]

I did. I also 'watched' President Reagan for eight years. President Reagan was a great speaker, well trained and well prepared when speaking to the base. What I suggest you and others who so worship President Reagan do, is to measure his words by his actions as POTUS.

Did he shrink government?

Did he reduce the national debt?

Did he raise taxes as well as cut taxes?

President Reagan did accomplish a number of important things, but the question to be asked is, "does man make history, or does history make the man"?

Huh.... that's actually good advice.

Maybe you should apply your same standard to Obama. Yes?

I have. Have you?

1. The world in which the President inherited was in (understatement) disarray. Not only did President Obama not have time, he did not have a road map on how to respond to the second greatest economic crisis in our nation's history.

Agree or disagree?

2. The political climate into which the President operated was poisoned even before he took the oath of office. The conservative media and conservatives in general dogged his every move and openly proclaimed they hoped he failed.

Agree or disagree?

3. The economic conditions in Europe continue to worry financial markets negatively impacting our economy. The President has little or no influence to fix Europe

Agree or disagree?

4. President Obama supported the Auto Bailout which commenced under the former President Bush. It prevented a much higher unemployment rate in the U.S.

Agree or disagree?

5. The Right Wing in American politics has continued to label President Obama as a Socialist or Marxist and that includes the Republican Leadership in the Congress: Boehner and McConnell.

In addition to a world-wide economic slowdown nations which look to American's leadership are dismayed by our nation divided and this has perpetuated the economic malaise of the recovery.

Agree or disagree?

I think the reform of health care in America is necessary but that putting that issue on the front burner was a mistake.

I think supporting the Lilly Ledbetter and signing it into law was politically heroic given the past and current examples of misogyny in our country.

I think the President has done a fine job of beginning to correct the mess he inherited under difficult conditions, that the efforts by the GOP in general and the far right fringe in particular has created "house divided" maybe as great as the President Lincoln inherited in 1861 (and I think that was done intentionally)

Agree or disagree?

!) Disagree. Obama had 3 years to turn that around. Reagan inherited arguably a worse mess and had it turned around in 2 years. Obama had a solidly filibuster-proof Democratic Congress. Reagan had to contend with a Democratic congress. If Obama did not have a road map, that was his fault. He claimed he could fix it, and that's why people voted for him. Financial crises are not new phenomenon and we have data going back hundreds of years. When was Charles Kindelberger's book published?
2) Disagree. Only Rush Limbaugh said he hoped he'd fail. And Rush Limbaugh is not the GOP. Obama came in promising bipartisanship. When he had a meeting with the GOP on health care and Eric Cantor presented a list of objections Obama ignored them and changed the subject. That is not bipartisanship. Bipartisanship does not mean declaring "I won" and expecting everyone else to fall in line.
3) Disagree. Europe was in better shape 2 years ago than we were. So while events there have an effect here you cannot say they are responsible for conditions here, which have been miserable for 3 years.
4) Agree Obama supported the auto bailout, which was a failure btw. Both companies went bankrupt anyway. Bush pushed it over congressional objections. It preserved some jobs at the expense of wiping out bond holders, trashing the rule of law, and establishing the imperial presidency where Obama could dismiss CEOs and dictate even advertising policy. The resources that went to bailing out the automakers would have been redistributed and used more effectively by other companies.
5) I dont know who "the right wing" is. Rush Limbaugh? Scott Brown? Ron Paul? It is a non statement. So I cannot say whether I disagree or not.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Huh.... that's actually good advice.

Maybe you should apply your same standard to Obama. Yes?

I have. Have you?

1. The world in which the President inherited was in (understatement) disarray. Not only did President Obama not have time, he did not have a road map on how to respond to the second greatest economic crisis in our nation's history.

Agree or disagree?

2. The political climate into which the President operated was poisoned even before he took the oath of office. The conservative media and conservatives in general dogged his every move and openly proclaimed they hoped he failed.

Agree or disagree?

3. The economic conditions in Europe continue to worry financial markets negatively impacting our economy. The President has little or no influence to fix Europe

Agree or disagree?

4. President Obama supported the Auto Bailout which commenced under the former President Bush. It prevented a much higher unemployment rate in the U.S.

Agree or disagree?

5. The Right Wing in American politics has continued to label President Obama as a Socialist or Marxist and that includes the Republican Leadership in the Congress: Boehner and McConnell.

In addition to a world-wide economic slowdown nations which look to American's leadership are dismayed by our nation divided and this has perpetuated the economic malaise of the recovery.

Agree or disagree?

I think the reform of health care in America is necessary but that putting that issue on the front burner was a mistake.

I think supporting the Lilly Ledbetter and signing it into law was politically heroic given the past and current examples of misogyny in our country.

I think the President has done a fine job of beginning to correct the mess he inherited under difficult conditions, that the efforts by the GOP in general and the far right fringe in particular has created "house divided" maybe as great as the President Lincoln inherited in 1861 (and I think that was done intentionally)

Agree or disagree?

!) Disagree. Obama had 3 years to turn that around. Reagan inherited arguably a worse mess and had it turned around in 2 years.Complete bullshit. The malaise began under Nixon, Ford than Carter suffered through and worked to mitigate stagflation. Obama had a solidly filibuster-proof Democratic Congress. Reagan had to contend with a Democratic congress. Obama's mistake was in believing the GOP would have the country's best interest at stake, they did not and don't today. If Obama did not have a road map, that was his fault. More bullshit, no one had a road map and to suggest that we look to the 1920's is foolish at best He claimed he could fix it, and that's why people voted for him. Financial crises are not new phenomenon and we have data going back hundreds of years. When was Charles Kindelberger's book published?
2) Disagree. Only Rush Limbaugh said he hoped he'd fail. Not true, McConnell for one made it clear. And Rush Limbaugh is not the GOP.Yet why do elected members of the GOP kiss is ass? Obama came in promising bipartisanship. When he had a meeting with the GOP on health care and Eric Cantor presented a list of objections Obama ignored them and changed the subject.It is always smart to ignore Eric Cantor That is not bipartisanship. Bipartisanship does not mean declaring "I won" and expecting everyone else to fall in line.What do you know about bipartisanship?
3) Disagree. Europe was in better shape 2 years ago than we were. So while events there have an effect here you cannot say they are responsible for conditions here, which have been miserable for 3 years.more bullshit on your part, it's a world economy
4) Agree Obama supported the auto bailout, which was a failure btw. explain how it was a failoure Both companies went bankrupt anyway. Bush pushed it over congressional objections. It preserved some jobs at the expense of wiping out bond holders, trashing the rule of law, and establishing the imperial presidency where Obama could dismiss CEOs and dictate even advertising policy. The resources that went to bailing out the automakers would have been redistributed and used more effectively by other companies.Nice rant, your conclusion is to redistribute wealth - how pink of you.
5) I dont know who "the right wing" is. Rush Limbaugh? Scott Brown? Ron Paul? It is a non statement. So I cannot say whether I disagree or not.

I spent more time (a minute or so) responding, more than you deserve.

BTW, do you not know what a paragraph is?

 

[Oldstyle]

I have. Have you?

1. The world in which the President inherited was in (understatement) disarray. Not only did President Obama not have time, he did not have a road map on how to respond to the second greatest economic crisis in our nation's history.

Agree or disagree?

2. The political climate into which the President operated was poisoned even before he took the oath of office. The conservative media and conservatives in general dogged his every move and openly proclaimed they hoped he failed.

Agree or disagree?

3. The economic conditions in Europe continue to worry financial markets negatively impacting our economy. The President has little or no influence to fix Europe

Agree or disagree?

4. President Obama supported the Auto Bailout which commenced under the former President Bush. It prevented a much higher unemployment rate in the U.S.

Agree or disagree?

5. The Right Wing in American politics has continued to label President Obama as a Socialist or Marxist and that includes the Republican Leadership in the Congress: Boehner and McConnell.

In addition to a world-wide economic slowdown nations which look to American's leadership are dismayed by our nation divided and this has perpetuated the economic malaise of the recovery.

Agree or disagree?

I think the reform of health care in America is necessary but that putting that issue on the front burner was a mistake.

I think supporting the Lilly Ledbetter and signing it into law was politically heroic given the past and current examples of misogyny in our country.

I think the President has done a fine job of beginning to correct the mess he inherited under difficult conditions, that the efforts by the GOP in general and the far right fringe in particular has created "house divided" maybe as great as the President Lincoln inherited in 1861 (and I think that was done intentionally)

Agree or disagree?

First of all, Obama didn't "inherit" anything...he campaigned for it and told us that he had a plan to fix things and that he would hit the ground running to do so. The fact that he STILL doesn't have a "road map" to fix things 3 1/2 years later says volumes about his abilities or lack thereof.

As GWB iherited the world left by Clinton, Obama inherited a world from GWB. That you see no difference is not surprising.

The political climate was not "poisoned" when he took office. Barack Obama came into office with an amazingly high approval rating and Super Majorities in both the House and Senate to work with. He HAD an incredible opportunity, Wry that he squandered on ObamaCare. What so many of you fail to remember is that when Mitch McConnell made his statement that his number one priority was replacing Obama it was AFTER Barry's first year in office and his "elections have consequences...I won" attitude towards the GOP. Was the political climate "poisoned" by the end of that first year? You bet. When you lock the opposition out in the hall and have Nancy and Harry write legislation that gets rammed through by whatever means necessary then you're going to be disliked by the other side. By the end of Obama's first year in office, Republicans LOATHED him.

The reform of health care was necessary. The way it was handled was a mistake, a mistake on both sides of the aisle and one funded and supported by the special interests who were defending the life of their golden goose not the citizens of this nation

President Obama could just as easily pushed GM to reorganize under bankruptcy, Wry. He didn't do so because he wanted to "save" the auto industry...he did so because he owed a debt to the United Auto Workers. He intervened not to save the the auto industry but to save union contracts that would have been tossed in a reorganization.

Bullshit. That's nothing but propaganda.

President Obama is neither a Communist nor a Socialist...he's simply an incompetent.

You're entitle to your opinion. I disagree. Compared to GWB President Obama is uber competent, has a plan but cannot get the plan in operation.

Other country's are "dismayed" by the fact that we don't have a coherent economic plan going forward. Our credit was downgraded because we are not perceived to have the political backbone to make tough choices in reducing our deficit. Given this Administrations total lack of ANY substantial cuts to spending combined with it's inability to grow the economy, that perception still holds true.

We don't have a coherent economic policy because the far right has taken over the GOP and the leadership in the Congress is focused solely on winning the next election. Governance is never discussed and bills are focused on securing the loyalty of the various factions within the GOP not on job creation.

The difference between Bush and Obama is that Bush didn't spend his entire Presidency whining about what a bad hand he was dealt because of the Dot Com Bust and the attacks on 9/11. Obama on the other hand is STILL trying to blame Bush for his own incompetence almost four years after taking office. When do you think Barry is going to take responsibility for HIS policies or lack there of?

It's "propaganda" that GM could have reorganized under bankruptcy? On what do you base that, Wry? A burning need to paint Barack Obama in a favorable light?

So Barry is "uber competent"? Funny how his "plan" for the economy that he gave just this noon was once again for more stimulus money to keep government workers employed. The truth is...he hasn't had a "plan" since the first stimulus didn't work. He keeps running the same failed policy out with different names trying to get some more borrowed money in order to keep unemployment from going back up again. That isn't a plan to fix the economy, Wry...that's a plan to try and make his unemployment numbers better than they currently are...no matter that it adds billions to our all ready out of control deficit. Barry was out smoking weed when his econ class was taking place. He's utterly clueless when it comes to economics.

I hate to point out the obvious here, Wry but if the "far right" has taken over the GOP then why was the most central candidate in the race for the Republican nomination the guy who won? Duh?

 

[westwall]

When you live in a rural part of Idaho where there is no sewer and you have to shit and piss in an outhouse in your backyard, where you have no traffic lights or the nearest fire department or police department is an hour away, then Meister and his ilk have no choice but to believe anarchy is the answer to all life's issues because they essentially live like anarchists to begin with.

Wow, to think that people actually lived with none of the trppings of civilised society a mere hundred years ago. How did they do it? As far as life in the country goes, I drove myself to the hospital when I was on the verge of having a heart attack just a little over a year ago, had i not i would have died.

If someone trys to break into my home he'll have a rather hard time about it. It is well fortified to make it bear proof, but in the highly unlikely event that a bad guy get's in he will either surrender or be in a world of hurt.

But, please, feel free to point out how many crimes the police actually halt. I can think of a few over the years but to actually stop crime before or as it is happening requires a CITIZEN who is armed and capable of handling themselves and the weapon they use.

You see dear person, we out in the sticks are a self reliant bunch. We don't need you or your civilised society. We are civilised (in fact most i know out here are far better educated than you city folks) because we choose to be. We help others in need far more often than you city folks who blissfully drive by or ignore pleas for help all the time.

When the next earthquake hits SF, you'd better pray that there is a self reliant type near you to bail your ass out when civilisation grinds to halt otherwise you'll starve real quick!

Wry and his ilk believe in the old "to protect and serve", which means no one needs anything but police for protection. ANything you need, gov't can get it for you. No sense relying on yourself. Government has many more resources than you can afford. And they're EXPERTS!

Oh yes, and people die waiting for them to show up all the time. Fortunately the first responders save more than die or they'd be out of a job. It's a funny thing...I know a lot of paramedics in the bay area and they are pretty much alike, self reliant, go getters. the cops on the other hand (though there are of course many exceptions, generally those on patrol are much more like that) are very indoctrinated with the "we're the only ones between you and the end of civilization!" mentality.

 

[The T]

Wow, to think that people actually lived with none of the trppings of civilised society a mere hundred years ago. How did they do it? As far as life in the country goes, I drove myself to the hospital when I was on the verge of having a heart attack just a little over a year ago, had i not i would have died.

If someone trys to break into my home he'll have a rather hard time about it. It is well fortified to make it bear proof, but in the highly unlikely event that a bad guy get's in he will either surrender or be in a world of hurt.

But, please, feel free to point out how many crimes the police actually halt. I can think of a few over the years but to actually stop crime before or as it is happening requires a CITIZEN who is armed and capable of handling themselves and the weapon they use.

You see dear person, we out in the sticks are a self reliant bunch. We don't need you or your civilised society. We are civilised (in fact most i know out here are far better educated than you city folks) because we choose to be. We help others in need far more often than you city folks who blissfully drive by or ignore pleas for help all the time.

When the next earthquake hits SF, you'd better pray that there is a self reliant type near you to bail your ass out when civilisation grinds to halt otherwise you'll starve real quick!

Wry and his ilk believe in the old "to protect and serve", which means no one needs anything but police for protection. ANything you need, gov't can get it for you. No sense relying on yourself. Government has many more resources than you can afford. And they're EXPERTS!

Oh yes, and people die waiting for them to show up all the time. Fortunately the first responders save more than die or they'd be out of a job. It's a funny thing...I know a lot of paramedics in the bay area and they are pretty much alike, self reliant, go getters. the cops on the other hand (though there are of course many exceptions, generally those on patrol are much more like that) are very indoctrinated with the "we're the only ones between you and the end of civilization!" mentality.

I belive they call it 'The Thin Blue line'

 

[westwall]

Wow, to think that people actually lived with none of the trppings of civilised society a mere hundred years ago. How did they do it? As far as life in the country goes, I drove myself to the hospital when I was on the verge of having a heart attack just a little over a year ago, had i not i would have died.

If someone trys to break into my home he'll have a rather hard time about it. It is well fortified to make it bear proof, but in the highly unlikely event that a bad guy get's in he will either surrender or be in a world of hurt.

But, please, feel free to point out how many crimes the police actually halt. I can think of a few over the years but to actually stop crime before or as it is happening requires a CITIZEN who is armed and capable of handling themselves and the weapon they use.

You see dear person, we out in the sticks are a self reliant bunch. We don't need you or your civilised society. We are civilised (in fact most i know out here are far better educated than you city folks) because we choose to be. We help others in need far more often than you city folks who blissfully drive by or ignore pleas for help all the time.

When the next earthquake hits SF, you'd better pray that there is a self reliant type near you to bail your ass out when civilisation grinds to halt otherwise you'll starve real quick!

Wry and his ilk believe in the old "to protect and serve", which means no one needs anything but police for protection. ANything you need, gov't can get it for you. No sense relying on yourself. Government has many more resources than you can afford. And they're EXPERTS!

Wry believes an untrained and emotion charged individual can do more harm than good in tense situtations. Wry has no problem with a sober, trained person never convicted of a crime of violence defending his/her home with a firearm. Wry does not believe that firearm or its ammunition should pose a risk to innocent persons living within their home or walking on a public street.

I wonder if Wry has ever been in a serious fighting situation? It is my experience that when violence is a possibility the emotions ramp up automatically (it's a survival thing). The secret is to train ones self so that no matter what your emotions are doing you remain cool and collected. In other words you fight the way you train.

 

[The T]

Wry and his ilk believe in the old "to protect and serve", which means no one needs anything but police for protection. ANything you need, gov't can get it for you. No sense relying on yourself. Government has many more resources than you can afford. And they're EXPERTS!

Wry believes an untrained and emotion charged individual can do more harm than good in tense situtations. Wry has no problem with a sober, trained person never convicted of a crime of violence defending his/her home with a firearm. Wry does not believe that firearm or its ammunition should pose a risk to innocent persons living within their home or walking on a public street.

I wonder if Wry has ever been in a serious fighting situation? It is my experience that when violence is a possibility the emotions ramp up automatically (it's a survival thing). The secret is to train ones self so that no matter what your emotions are doing you remain cool and collected. In other words you fight the way you train.

And interesting Wry is speaking in third person...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Apa0nG1OfUc]The Jimmy - YouTube[/ame]

 

[The Rabbi]

I have. Have you?

1. The world in which the President inherited was in (understatement) disarray. Not only did President Obama not have time, he did not have a road map on how to respond to the second greatest economic crisis in our nation's history.

Agree or disagree?

2. The political climate into which the President operated was poisoned even before he took the oath of office. The conservative media and conservatives in general dogged his every move and openly proclaimed they hoped he failed.

Agree or disagree?

3. The economic conditions in Europe continue to worry financial markets negatively impacting our economy. The President has little or no influence to fix Europe

Agree or disagree?

4. President Obama supported the Auto Bailout which commenced under the former President Bush. It prevented a much higher unemployment rate in the U.S.

Agree or disagree?

5. The Right Wing in American politics has continued to label President Obama as a Socialist or Marxist and that includes the Republican Leadership in the Congress: Boehner and McConnell.

In addition to a world-wide economic slowdown nations which look to American's leadership are dismayed by our nation divided and this has perpetuated the economic malaise of the recovery.

Agree or disagree?

I think the reform of health care in America is necessary but that putting that issue on the front burner was a mistake.

I think supporting the Lilly Ledbetter and signing it into law was politically heroic given the past and current examples of misogyny in our country.

I think the President has done a fine job of beginning to correct the mess he inherited under difficult conditions, that the efforts by the GOP in general and the far right fringe in particular has created "house divided" maybe as great as the President Lincoln inherited in 1861 (and I think that was done intentionally)

Agree or disagree?

!) Disagree. Obama had 3 years to turn that around. Reagan inherited arguably a worse mess and had it turned around in 2 years.Complete bullshit. The malaise began under Nixon, Ford than Carter suffered through and worked to mitigate stagflation. Obama had a solidly filibuster-proof Democratic Congress. Reagan had to contend with a Democratic congress. Obama's mistake was in believing the GOP would have the country's best interest at stake, they did not and don't today. If Obama did not have a road map, that was his fault. More bullshit, no one had a road map and to suggest that we look to the 1920's is foolish at best He claimed he could fix it, and that's why people voted for him. Financial crises are not new phenomenon and we have data going back hundreds of years. When was Charles Kindelberger's book published?
2) Disagree. Only Rush Limbaugh said he hoped he'd fail. Not true, McConnell for one made it clear. And Rush Limbaugh is not the GOP.Yet why do elected members of the GOP kiss is ass? Obama came in promising bipartisanship. When he had a meeting with the GOP on health care and Eric Cantor presented a list of objections Obama ignored them and changed the subject.It is always smart to ignore Eric Cantor That is not bipartisanship. Bipartisanship does not mean declaring "I won" and expecting everyone else to fall in line.What do you know about bipartisanship?
3) Disagree. Europe was in better shape 2 years ago than we were. So while events there have an effect here you cannot say they are responsible for conditions here, which have been miserable for 3 years.more bullshit on your part, it's a world economy
4) Agree Obama supported the auto bailout, which was a failure btw. explain how it was a failoure Both companies went bankrupt anyway. Bush pushed it over congressional objections. It preserved some jobs at the expense of wiping out bond holders, trashing the rule of law, and establishing the imperial presidency where Obama could dismiss CEOs and dictate even advertising policy. The resources that went to bailing out the automakers would have been redistributed and used more effectively by other companies.Nice rant, your conclusion is to redistribute wealth - how pink of you.
5) I dont know who "the right wing" is. Rush Limbaugh? Scott Brown? Ron Paul? It is a non statement. So I cannot say whether I disagree or not.

I spent more time (a minute or so) responding, more than you deserve.

BTW, do you not know what a paragraph is?

So basically all you can do is say "bullshit" and repeat lefty talking points.
It took about 7 seconds to write that sentence. That's 7 seconds more than you deserve of serious consideration.

 

[Wry Catcher]

First of all, Obama didn't "inherit" anything...he campaigned for it and told us that he had a plan to fix things and that he would hit the ground running to do so. The fact that he STILL doesn't have a "road map" to fix things 3 1/2 years later says volumes about his abilities or lack thereof.

As GWB iherited the world left by Clinton, Obama inherited a world from GWB. That you see no difference is not surprising.

The political climate was not "poisoned" when he took office. Barack Obama came into office with an amazingly high approval rating and Super Majorities in both the House and Senate to work with. He HAD an incredible opportunity, Wry that he squandered on ObamaCare. What so many of you fail to remember is that when Mitch McConnell made his statement that his number one priority was replacing Obama it was AFTER Barry's first year in office and his "elections have consequences...I won" attitude towards the GOP. Was the political climate "poisoned" by the end of that first year? You bet. When you lock the opposition out in the hall and have Nancy and Harry write legislation that gets rammed through by whatever means necessary then you're going to be disliked by the other side. By the end of Obama's first year in office, Republicans LOATHED him.

The reform of health care was necessary. The way it was handled was a mistake, a mistake on both sides of the aisle and one funded and supported by the special interests who were defending the life of their golden goose not the citizens of this nation

President Obama could just as easily pushed GM to reorganize under bankruptcy, Wry. He didn't do so because he wanted to "save" the auto industry...he did so because he owed a debt to the United Auto Workers. He intervened not to save the the auto industry but to save union contracts that would have been tossed in a reorganization.

Bullshit. That's nothing but propaganda.

President Obama is neither a Communist nor a Socialist...he's simply an incompetent.

You're entitle to your opinion. I disagree. Compared to GWB President Obama is uber competent, has a plan but cannot get the plan in operation.

Other country's are "dismayed" by the fact that we don't have a coherent economic plan going forward. Our credit was downgraded because we are not perceived to have the political backbone to make tough choices in reducing our deficit. Given this Administrations total lack of ANY substantial cuts to spending combined with it's inability to grow the economy, that perception still holds true.

We don't have a coherent economic policy because the far right has taken over the GOP and the leadership in the Congress is focused solely on winning the next election. Governance is never discussed and bills are focused on securing the loyalty of the various factions within the GOP not on job creation.

The difference between Bush and Obama is that Bush didn't spend his entire Presidency whining about what a bad hand he was dealt because of the Dot Com Bust and the attacks on 9/11. Obama on the other hand is STILL trying to blame Bush for his own incompetence almost four years after taking office. When do you think Barry is going to take responsibility for HIS policies or lack there of?

It's "propaganda" that GM could have reorganized under bankruptcy? On what do you base that, Wry? A burning need to paint Barack Obama in a favorable light?

So Barry is "uber competent"? Funny how his "plan" for the economy that he gave just this noon was once again for more stimulus money to keep government workers employed. The truth is...he hasn't had a "plan" since the first stimulus didn't work. He keeps running the same failed policy out with different names trying to get some more borrowed money in order to keep unemployment from going back up again. That isn't a plan to fix the economy, Wry...that's a plan to try and make his unemployment numbers better than they currently are...no matter that it adds billions to our all ready out of control deficit. Barry was out smoking weed when his econ class was taking place. He's utterly clueless when it comes to economics.

I hate to point out the obvious here, Wry but if the "far right" has taken over the GOP then why was the most central candidate in the race for the Republican nomination the guy who won? Duh?

Why did Romney win? The answer to that is simple, HIS SuperPAC had unlimited money and filled the airways and landlines with attacks on his opponents, attacks which will continue focused on President Obama for the next several months.

No lie is too big for Romney and his supporters and Romney has no internal moral code telling him and his supporters to stop. We can expect a contined barrage of lies, half truths, rumors and innuendos to flow outward from his campagin team and his own mouth.

 

[Meister]

We don't have a coherent economic policy because the far right has taken over the GOP and the leadership in the Congress is focused solely on winning the next election. Governance is never discussed and bills are focused on securing the loyalty of the various factions within the GOP not on job creation.

The difference between Bush and Obama is that Bush didn't spend his entire Presidency whining about what a bad hand he was dealt because of the Dot Com Bust and the attacks on 9/11. Obama on the other hand is STILL trying to blame Bush for his own incompetence almost four years after taking office. When do you think Barry is going to take responsibility for HIS policies or lack there of?

It's "propaganda" that GM could have reorganized under bankruptcy? On what do you base that, Wry? A burning need to paint Barack Obama in a favorable light?

So Barry is "uber competent"? Funny how his "plan" for the economy that he gave just this noon was once again for more stimulus money to keep government workers employed. The truth is...he hasn't had a "plan" since the first stimulus didn't work. He keeps running the same failed policy out with different names trying to get some more borrowed money in order to keep unemployment from going back up again. That isn't a plan to fix the economy, Wry...that's a plan to try and make his unemployment numbers better than they currently are...no matter that it adds billions to our all ready out of control deficit. Barry was out smoking weed when his econ class was taking place. He's utterly clueless when it comes to economics.

I hate to point out the obvious here, Wry but if the "far right" has taken over the GOP then why was the most central candidate in the race for the Republican nomination the guy who won? Duh?

Why did Romney win? The answer to that is simple, HIS SuperPAC had unlimited money and filled the airways and landlines with attacks on his opponents, attacks which will continue focused on President Obama for the next several months.

No lie is too big for Romney and his supporters and Romney has no internal moral code telling him and his supporters to stop. We can expect a contined barrage of lies, half truths, rumors and innuendos to flow outward from his campagin team and his own mouth.

You have no integrity when it comes to your politics, wry. just sayin.....

 

[Wry Catcher]

!) Disagree. Obama had 3 years to turn that around. Reagan inherited arguably a worse mess and had it turned around in 2 years.Complete bullshit. The malaise began under Nixon, Ford than Carter suffered through and worked to mitigate stagflation. Obama had a solidly filibuster-proof Democratic Congress. Reagan had to contend with a Democratic congress. Obama's mistake was in believing the GOP would have the country's best interest at stake, they did not and don't today. If Obama did not have a road map, that was his fault. More bullshit, no one had a road map and to suggest that we look to the 1920's is foolish at best He claimed he could fix it, and that's why people voted for him. Financial crises are not new phenomenon and we have data going back hundreds of years. When was Charles Kindelberger's book published?
2) Disagree. Only Rush Limbaugh said he hoped he'd fail. Not true, McConnell for one made it clear. And Rush Limbaugh is not the GOP.Yet why do elected members of the GOP kiss is ass? Obama came in promising bipartisanship. When he had a meeting with the GOP on health care and Eric Cantor presented a list of objections Obama ignored them and changed the subject.It is always smart to ignore Eric Cantor That is not bipartisanship. Bipartisanship does not mean declaring "I won" and expecting everyone else to fall in line.What do you know about bipartisanship?
3) Disagree. Europe was in better shape 2 years ago than we were. So while events there have an effect here you cannot say they are responsible for conditions here, which have been miserable for 3 years.more bullshit on your part, it's a world economy
4) Agree Obama supported the auto bailout, which was a failure btw. explain how it was a failoure Both companies went bankrupt anyway. Bush pushed it over congressional objections. It preserved some jobs at the expense of wiping out bond holders, trashing the rule of law, and establishing the imperial presidency where Obama could dismiss CEOs and dictate even advertising policy. The resources that went to bailing out the automakers would have been redistributed and used more effectively by other companies.Nice rant, your conclusion is to redistribute wealth - how pink of you.
5) I dont know who "the right wing" is. Rush Limbaugh? Scott Brown? Ron Paul? It is a non statement. So I cannot say whether I disagree or not.

I spent more time (a minute or so) responding, more than you deserve.

BTW, do you not know what a paragraph is?

So basically all you can do is say "bullshit" and repeat lefty talking points.
It took about 7 seconds to write that sentence. That's 7 seconds more than you deserve of serious consideration.

Nice job, you only need one or two more thanks and you'll have started a circle jerk with some of the usual suspects. I know that you know that I know you're a liar. And I LTM & OL (when I don't have coffee in my mouth) when fringers like yourself accuse me of what they do all the time. It's actually very funny.

 

[The T]

I spent more time (a minute or so) responding, more than you deserve.

BTW, do you not know what a paragraph is?

So basically all you can do is say "bullshit" and repeat lefty talking points.
It took about 7 seconds to write that sentence. That's 7 seconds more than you deserve of serious consideration.

Nice job, you only need one or two more thanks and you'll have started a circle jerk with some of the usual suspects. I know that you know that I know you're a liar. And I LTM & OL (when I don't have coffee in my mouth) when fringers like yourself accuse me of what they do all the time. It's actually very funny.

What's wrong WRY? Don't like WRY being taken to task? Wry must be very pissed off...WRY will get US...

IDIOT.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The difference between Bush and Obama is that Bush didn't spend his entire Presidency whining about what a bad hand he was dealt because of the Dot Com Bust and the attacks on 9/11. Obama on the other hand is STILL trying to blame Bush for his own incompetence almost four years after taking office. When do you think Barry is going to take responsibility for HIS policies or lack there of?

It's "propaganda" that GM could have reorganized under bankruptcy? On what do you base that, Wry? A burning need to paint Barack Obama in a favorable light?

Of course it's propaganda. Did it happen? It might have, but it didn't; hence, we don't know what the consequences may have been.

So Barry is "uber competent"? Funny how his "plan" for the economy that he gave just this noon was once again for more stimulus money to keep government workers employed. The truth is...he hasn't had a "plan" since the first stimulus didn't work. He keeps running the same failed policy out with different names trying to get some more borrowed money in order to keep unemployment from going back up again. That isn't a plan to fix the economy, Wry...that's a plan to try and make his unemployment numbers better than they currently are...no matter that it adds billions to our all ready out of control deficit. Barry was out smoking weed when his econ class was taking place. He's utterly clueless when it comes to economics.

Lots of words, all opinion based on your biases.

I hate to point out the obvious here, Wry but if the "far right" has taken over the GOP then why was the most central candidate in the race for the Republican nomination the guy who won? Duh?

The far right has taken over the GOP, IMO but not alone. Romney is getting luke warm support even from those who want a job IF he wins the election. Do you deny that many of those who were supporters of Ron Paul, et al couldn't stand Romney until a few weeks ago.

Why did Romney win? The answer to that is simple, HIS SuperPAC had unlimited money and filled the airways and landlines with attacks on his opponents, attacks which will continue focused on President Obama for the next several months.

No lie is too big for Romney and his supporters and Romney has no internal moral code telling him and his supporters to stop. We can expect a contined barrage of lies, half truths, rumors and innuendos to flow outward from his campagin team and his own mouth.

You have no integrity when it comes to your politics, wry. just sayin.....

And why would you suggest such a thing? I answered your question with my opinion, an opinion based on emperical evidence from a primary source - Romney's mouth.

 

[Harry Dresden]

The lessons we learn from WI is that corporate money matters. With a war chest nearly 10 times larger than his opponent it is no supprise the Walker won.

so i guess when a candidate has a Billion dollars to spend, you know he/she is going to win...

You can't know anything until the fat lady sings but if their oponent had say 10 billion to spend......maybe not.

Can I have one of them smokes?

You can't know anything until the fat lady sings
except in Walkers case because he had the most cash.....but Obama who had the most money ever (from what i heard) you were not sure he was going to win?....hey Blind guy?.....can i have one of your smokes?.....i think they might be better than mine.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

No lie is too big for Romney and his supporters and Romney has no internal moral code telling him and his supporters to stop. We can expect a contined barrage of lies, half truths, rumors and innuendos to flow outward from his campagin team and his own mouth.

im sure we are going to hear the same from the left also....

 

[Wry Catcher]

No lie is too big for Romney and his supporters and Romney has no internal moral code telling him and his supporters to stop. We can expect a contined barrage of lies, half truths, rumors and innuendos to flow outward from his campagin team and his own mouth.

im sure we are going to hear the same from the left also....

Probably you will, from the far left. There are no far lefties who post on this message board with regularity; the far right is represented in large numbers.

No one left of center is advocating a radical departure from the past; most of those on the right hope to end Medicare and Social Security and privatize everything. In a huge bit of irony, the middle of the road Democrat is supporting the status quo with few exceptions. It is the far right who are the radicals, who demand change in terms of suppressing the rights of gays/lesbians, unionized workers, voters, immigrants and public employees.

Have middle road Democrats become the new conservatives?

 

[The T]

No lie is too big for Romney and his supporters and Romney has no internal moral code telling him and his supporters to stop. We can expect a contined barrage of lies, half truths, rumors and innuendos to flow outward from his campagin team and his own mouth.

im sure we are going to hear the same from the left also....

Probably you will, from the far left. There are no far lefties who post on this message board with regularity; the far right is represented in large numbers.

No one left of center is advocating a radical departure from the past; most of those on the right hope to end Medicare and Social Security and privatize everything. In a huge bit of irony, the middle of the road Democrat is supporting the status quo with few exceptions. It is the far right who are the radicals, who demand change in terms of suppressing the rights of gays/lesbians, unionized workers, voters, immigrants and public employees.

Have middle road Democrats become the new conservatives?

No...Obama and those that support HIM are the radicals...did you give up speaking in third person, Wry?

 

[Wry Catcher]

im sure we are going to hear the same from the left also....

Probably you will, from the far left. There are no far lefties who post on this message board with regularity; the far right is represented in large numbers.

No one left of center is advocating a radical departure from the past; most of those on the right hope to end Medicare and Social Security and privatize everything. In a huge bit of irony, the middle of the road Democrat is supporting the status quo with few exceptions. It is the far right who are the radicals, who demand change in terms of suppressing the rights of gays/lesbians, unionized workers, voters, immigrants and public employees.

Have middle road Democrats become the new conservatives?

No...Obama and those that support HIM are the radicals...did you give up speaking in third person, Wry?

Wry speaks in the first person for style variety only.