The Incontrovertible Science and Mathematics of God's Existence

[ReinyDays]

Singularity doesn't befuddle me. I just called it a lie and you to believe in lies makes you a wrong way-er. Atheists are usually wrong.

Here's a proof of the existence of singularities ... the one by Nobel Prize winning Roger Penrose ... point to the error please ... show us the lie ...

Penrose–Hawking singularity theorems - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's the liar who screams "liar" first ... you should know that from your Bible ...

 

[james bond]

I did find an answer to how many force vectors on the surface of a sphere and it is FINITE. The number is the Plank length in meters of 10 to the minus 35th power... or 1/(10 followed by 34 zeros).

To see it easier, one can have multiple points between two points in a line. While mathematics says one can divide points between a line into an infinite number of small points, i.e. potential infinities, the physical infinity of a point has a finite limit of plank length in meters. Thus, your infinities are not found in nature.

Conjecture ... or link to the proof ... typical IDiot-ology, grabbing the latest pop-psycho fad and running with it ... I specifically called upon direction ... not magnitude ... I know, too stupid to know the difference ...

I gave it to you atheists with the FLOT and SLOT. Are you saying SLOT doesn't happen?

I asked for you to prove your claim and it was wrong. We still have no explanation for why a singularity would exist, let alone start the big bang. We may as file it under atheist fairy tales such as abiogenesis.

Aristotle said that we can have an infinite set of counting numbers, but no real numbers to count it. For example, even the most powerful supercomputer cannot count to infinity. It will eventually run out of memory.

"Aristotle argued that all the problems involving reasoning with infinity are really problems of improperly applying the incoherent concept of actual infinity instead of the coherent concept of potential infinity. (See Aristotle’s Physics, Book III, for his account of infinity.)"

I can't argue with people who believe in a potential Earth and universe, i.e. evolution. I can only deal with what is real of Earth and our universe that God created for us per the Bible.

"We still have no explanation for why a singularity would exist, let alone start the big bang"

It would be helpful if you learned about the terms you use.

The term “singularity” used to describe the beginning of the universe is an artifact of the theory of general relativity. Solving the math resolves to a null value as the equations “break down”.
Your notions about "a singularity'' mimic the erroneous nonsense spewed by the ICR and similar creationist ministries. The creationist notion that the universe had a beginning unique to a location (or an entity), is the remnant of an imaginative description by physicists. The term “singularity” used to describe the beginning of the universe is an artifact of the theory of general relativity. The ''singularity'' is a misnomer in that the math resolves to a null value as the equations are unresolvable.

Instead of criticizing my understanding, you should be able to explain if the term "singularity" existed and was true. It's not. How do I know? It violates the laws of physics. You just have been embarrassed beyond belief in S&T and have been knocked down to harmonica level.

I a'splained you earlier about the ''singularity''.

Who needs physics when ''the gawds did it'' answers every question that befuddles you.

Singularity doesn't befuddle me. I just called it a lie and you to believe in lies makes you a wrong way-er. Atheists are usually wrong.

What we discover is science backs up God's word while it doesn't ToE, evolutionary thinking, cosmology, and origins.

Who’s we? Religionary thinking is not thinking at all. It’s submitting to mind numbing indoctrination.

We are the conservative and science users who have discovered science backs up the Bible (Genesis, even though it's not a science book).

To the contrary, "mind numbing indoctrination" is evolution, evolutionary thinking, cosmology, liberalism, and more since the 1850s. People were swayed by Satan into atheistic science and religion and choosing to go the hell thinking that is scientific. It really is wrong and more of the stupid choice, but that's how mind numbing indoctrination works.

What's mind numbing to me is how the libs were easily swayed and now believe they know everything dealing with science when they have no evidence and no backing by the scientific method. They were fooled by natural selection which God created, but Satan used to fool the evolutionists.

 

[james bond]

hahahhahahahahahahh
......same old shit--we've been over this a million times:
YOU have to prove your claim--I don't have to refute anything until it is proven.....this is basic common sense--like a court--the court has to prove guilt--not the other way around

God has provided an answer for you. He and the creationists have the last word and lol

Evidence will never overcome obstinance.

and AGAIN, you provide no proof----hahahahhahahahahhahah
we have the last LAUGH

I wouldn't call screaming in pain forever laughing.

 

[james bond]

Singularity doesn't befuddle me. I just called it a lie and you to believe in lies makes you a wrong way-er. Atheists are usually wrong.

Here's a proof of the existence of singularities ... the one by Nobel Prize winning Roger Penrose ... point to the error please ... show us the lie ...

Penrose–Hawking singularity theorems - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's the liar who screams "liar" first ... you should know that from your Bible ...

A lie is still a lie not dependent upon who screamed, "liar" first.

Anyway, using the fallacy of authoritarianism does not make Penrose-Hawking singularity theorems valid. It's been shown that "accelerated expansion of the Universe with negative Λ are invalid because they are based upon demonstrably false foundations relating to Einstein’s field equations, trapped surfaces, and the cosmological constant."

Care to try again?

 

[ChemEngineer]

The laws of physics clearly are not inviolate, except in our visible universe, absent some supernatural intervention. Since God made those laws, He is clearly outside them, not subject to them.
Of course the creation of the Universe violates the known laws of physics because God designed all of them at the Beginning. Genesis 1:1 has, to the best of our knowledge today, been validated by the most sophisticated science available. Still, we are just children in the great scheme of things.

 

[justinacolmena]

We are the conservative and science users who have discovered science backs up the Bible (Genesis, even though it's not a science book).

The Bible is the Good Book, the Book of Books. I don't think science is disputing that. If God created the earth and all living things in six days, and the sun, moon, and stars -- by which we ultimately measure time -- didn't exist until the fourth day of creation, clearly those are not natural 24-hour days that the Bible is referring to as the six days of creation.

Obviously not all scientists are in agreement to any particular theories of "evolution" per se in a Darwinian sense, but I don't see how the Bible rules out such theories -- God is God, the Master and Architect of the Universe, if one believes in God.

Man chooses not to believe in God, or to believe that God does not exist, and to have his children circumcised after the manner of the faithless midwives of the Hebrew slaves in Egypt, but that is man's choice to bear the inevitable consequences of his wicked deeds.

Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 30:19 - King James Version

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Stryder50]

Turning a bit back to the title and theme of this thread ~ OP, consider;

1) You can't get something from nothing. Therefore, if there is a God/Creator of the Universe, IT* would have had to create such from IT's own substance. Hence God/Creator is the Universe and the Universe is God/Creator
2) * I use the term IT because if as most theologies posit, "God" is infinite = has no beginning nor end, there appears to be no need for reproduction, hence no gender/sex would apply. "God" could be just as much a female as an male, but more likely the Creator would have no gender/sex.
3) If the Universe(Cosmos) is made of the creator's own substance, and if the Creator is eternal/infinite as mentioned above, than so would the Universe be. i.e. the Universe would have no beginning, nor an end. The "Big Bang" eventually results in a "Big Collapse", which then becomes another Big Bang(expand) followed by another Big Collapse(contract), Big Bang~Big Collapse, etc. etc. etc.

A cycle with no begin or end, think of something circular, like the classic motif of the snake eating it's tail.

4) We humans (and all other "living" things) would then be a part of the Creator, like one of the millions of cells in our body, in this case one of billions of "cells' in the body of the Creator. That would makes us the Creator, and the Creator is Us.

5) This would suggest that if we humans have a non-chemical/non-physical aspect of our existence, the "soul" as presented by some, than that soul, being a part of the Creator, would have no beginning nor any end, our souls would be fully eternal(infinite). Our physical existence in a chemical body would be akin to the soul having a temporary suit of (chemical)clothes, which once worn out, is discarded and we will then eventually put on another suit of chemical clothes/body. Reincarnation of a sorts.

6) Here's a visualization of sorts, using geometry and the classic "X" and "Y" grid on a sheet of graph paper.

Start with a single point on the graph/grid, say x = 2 and y = 2.
Now, make a series of connected points, touching/tangent to each other going out from 2,2; say x=3 & y=3, then 4/4 and 5/5 and 6/6. This is what is called a segment.
To the atheist, and/or agnostic, one of purely secular beliefs such as their life and consciousness begins when they are born (2/2) and ends when they die (6/6) than personal life and existence is just a "segment".

For many of religious belief, especially of the Jew-Christian-Islam flavors, their "existence" begins as a segment: 2/2-6/6; but they then have a non-physical aspect of consciousness that continues on the same direction of the graph, 7/7~8/8~9/9~etc. out to infinity. Such will be spent in either a "Heaven" or "Hell".**
In Geometry this one direction series of connected points is known as a Ray.
** = Both Heaven and Hell are also of the Creator in this scenario, or the Creator is both the Heaven and the Hell.

Now if one keeps the above graph(Ray), but also goes in the other direction: 1/1~ -1/-1 ~ -2/-2 ~ -3/-3 ~ etc. we then have what is known in geometry as a Line. A series of connected points going in both directions on into infinity in both directions.

So, we have the following visualizations;

To Secular and non-religious, atheists and agnostics, those whom believe there is only on lifetime, short and simple, than personal existence is just a Segment.

To many religious believers, especially of the Jew-Christian-Muslim persuasion, ones existence is a brief physical lifetime=Segment; followed by an eternal non-physical existence (with some form of reward or punishment conditions in some theologies) going on forever~eternal~infinity. This is a Ray. One hitch is that it is only HALF eternal since it only goes in one direction.

The other alternative, more consistent with the concepts presented above regarding Creator and Created being One; than ones existence would be a "Soul", going in both direction, hence Full Eternal/Infinite, and such an existence is punctuated with occasional Segments of physical bodies=lifetimes. Hence a Line is the one that best fits the chain of logic presented so far in this scenario~thesis.

Always Was
Always Will Be

 

[Stryder50]

For further consideration;
Soul Survivor: The Reincarnation of a World War II Fighter Pilot


by
Andrea Leininger,
Bruce Leininger,
Ken Gross (Contributor),
Carol Bowman (Foreword)
...
This is the story of James Leininger, who-- a little more than two weeks after his second birthday-- began having blood-curdling nightmares that just would not stop. When James began screaming out recurring phrases like, "Plane on fire! Little man can't get out!" the Leiningers finally admitted that they truly had to take notice.

When details of planes and war tragedies no two-year-old boy could know continued-- even in stark daylight-- Bruce and Andrea Leininger began to realize that this was an incredible situation. SOUL SURVIVOR is the story of how the Leiningers pieced together what their son was communicating and eventually discovered that he was reliving the past life of World War II fighter pilot James Huston. As Bruce Leininger struggled to understand what was happening to his son, he also uncovered details of James Huston's life-- and death-- as a pilot that will fascinate military buffs everywhere.

In SOUL SURVIVOR, we are taken for a gripping ride as the Leiningers' belief system is shaken to the core, and both of these families come to know a little boy who, against all odds and even in the face of true skeptics, harbors the soul of this man who died long ago.
...

Soul Survivor

This is the story of James Leininger, who-- a little more than two weeks after his second birthday-- began having blood-curdling nightmar...

www.goodreads.com

 

[justinacolmena]

"God" could be just as much a female as an male, but more likely the Creator would have no gender/sex.

God is omnipotent and as such often referred to with capitalized masculine pronouns. Weakness and effeminacy cannot be named among the traits of the Almighty. All the same, the Bible makes it clear that when God created man, (i.e., "the human") in His own image, He created the female human, perfectly as well as the male human, in His own image.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1:27 - King James Version

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Stryder50]

"God" could be just as much a female as an male, but more likely the Creator would have no gender/sex.

God is omnipotent and as such often referred to with capitalized masculine pronouns. Weakness and effeminacy cannot be named among the traits of the Almighty. All the same, the Bible makes it clear that when God created man, (i.e., "the human") in His own image, He created the female human, perfectly as well as the male human, in His own image.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1:27 - King James Version

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

www.biblegateway.com

And the Biblical "Gawd" appears upon the stage of human history many centuries after other gawds and gawdesses have been presented. In many other parts of the world other than the Middle East region.

 

[harmonica]

hahahhahahahahahahh
......same old shit--we've been over this a million times:
YOU have to prove your claim--I don't have to refute anything until it is proven.....this is basic common sense--like a court--the court has to prove guilt--not the other way around

God has provided an answer for you. He and the creationists have the last word and lol

Evidence will never overcome obstinance.

and AGAIN, you provide no proof----hahahahhahahahahhahah
we have the last LAUGH

I wouldn't call screaming in pain forever laughing.

STILL no proof from you
more HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[abu afak]

this is/WAS the Science section and there is no science.
only testimonials.
Please move this Thread, This page, and many like it of 'witnessing'/Belief withOUT evidence to Religion.
ty..

`

 

[Hollie]

The laws of physics clearly are not inviolate, except in our visible universe, absent some supernatural intervention. Since God made those laws, He is clearly outside them, not subject to them.
Of course the creation of the Universe violates the known laws of physics because God designed all of them at the Beginning. Genesis 1:1 has, to the best of our knowledge today, been validated by the most sophisticated science available. Still, we are just children in the great scheme of things.

That's so silly.

 

[Hollie]

I did find an answer to how many force vectors on the surface of a sphere and it is FINITE. The number is the Plank length in meters of 10 to the minus 35th power... or 1/(10 followed by 34 zeros).

To see it easier, one can have multiple points between two points in a line. While mathematics says one can divide points between a line into an infinite number of small points, i.e. potential infinities, the physical infinity of a point has a finite limit of plank length in meters. Thus, your infinities are not found in nature.

Conjecture ... or link to the proof ... typical IDiot-ology, grabbing the latest pop-psycho fad and running with it ... I specifically called upon direction ... not magnitude ... I know, too stupid to know the difference ...

I gave it to you atheists with the FLOT and SLOT. Are you saying SLOT doesn't happen?

I asked for you to prove your claim and it was wrong. We still have no explanation for why a singularity would exist, let alone start the big bang. We may as file it under atheist fairy tales such as abiogenesis.

Aristotle said that we can have an infinite set of counting numbers, but no real numbers to count it. For example, even the most powerful supercomputer cannot count to infinity. It will eventually run out of memory.

"Aristotle argued that all the problems involving reasoning with infinity are really problems of improperly applying the incoherent concept of actual infinity instead of the coherent concept of potential infinity. (See Aristotle’s Physics, Book III, for his account of infinity.)"

I can't argue with people who believe in a potential Earth and universe, i.e. evolution. I can only deal with what is real of Earth and our universe that God created for us per the Bible.

"We still have no explanation for why a singularity would exist, let alone start the big bang"

It would be helpful if you learned about the terms you use.

The term “singularity” used to describe the beginning of the universe is an artifact of the theory of general relativity. Solving the math resolves to a null value as the equations “break down”.
Your notions about "a singularity'' mimic the erroneous nonsense spewed by the ICR and similar creationist ministries. The creationist notion that the universe had a beginning unique to a location (or an entity), is the remnant of an imaginative description by physicists. The term “singularity” used to describe the beginning of the universe is an artifact of the theory of general relativity. The ''singularity'' is a misnomer in that the math resolves to a null value as the equations are unresolvable.

Instead of criticizing my understanding, you should be able to explain if the term "singularity" existed and was true. It's not. How do I know? It violates the laws of physics. You just have been embarrassed beyond belief in S&T and have been knocked down to harmonica level.

I a'splained you earlier about the ''singularity''.

Who needs physics when ''the gawds did it'' answers every question that befuddles you.

Singularity doesn't befuddle me. I just called it a lie and you to believe in lies makes you a wrong way-er. Atheists are usually wrong.

What we discover is science backs up God's word while it doesn't ToE, evolutionary thinking, cosmology, and origins.

Who’s we? Religionary thinking is not thinking at all. It’s submitting to mind numbing indoctrination.

We are the conservative and science users who have discovered science backs up the Bible (Genesis, even though it's not a science book).

To the contrary, "mind numbing indoctrination" is evolution, evolutionary thinking, cosmology, liberalism, and more since the 1850s. People were swayed by Satan into atheistic science and religion and choosing to go the hell thinking that is scientific. It really is wrong and more of the stupid choice, but that's how mind numbing indoctrination works.

What's mind numbing to me is how the libs were easily swayed and now believe they know everything dealing with science when they have no evidence and no backing by the scientific method. They were fooled by natural selection which God created, but Satan used to fool the evolutionists.

The hyper-religious suffer from mind numbing indoctrination.

 

[surada]

1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause.​

​

2. The Universe (physical world) began to exist.​

​

3. Therefore, the Universe has a cause.​

Why does the conclusion entail the necessity of God's existence?

The following is my own syllogistic formulation regarding the only possible cause of the physical world:

3. The universe has a cause of its existence.​

​

3.1. If the cause of the universe's existence were impersonal, it would be operationally mechanical.​

​

3.2. An operationally mechanical cause would be a material existent.​

​

3.3. The causal conditions for the effect of an operationally mechanical cause would be given from eternity.​

​

3.4. But a material existent is a contingent entity of continuous change and causality!​

​

3.5. An infinite temporal series of past causal events cannot be traversed to the present.​

​

3.6. Indeed, an actual infinite cannot exist.​

​

3.7. Hence, a temporal existent cannot have a beginningless past.​

​

3.8. Hence, time began to exist.​

​

3.9. A material existent is a temporal existent.​

​

3.10. Hence, materiality began to exist.​

​

3.11. The universe is a material existent.​

​

3.12. Hence, the universe began to exist.​

​

3.13. Hence, the cause of the universe's existence cannot be material (per 3.10.).​

​

3.14. Hence, the cause of the universe's existence cannot be operationally mechanical (per 3.2., 3.10.).​

​

3.15. Hence, the eternally self-subsistent cause of the universe's existence is wholly transcendent: timeless, immaterial and immutable (3.13.).​

​

3.16. The only kind of timeless entity that could cause the beginning of time sans any external, predetermining causal conditions would be a personal agent of free will (per 3.3., 3.14.).​

​

3.17. Hence, the eternally self-subsistent cause of the universe's existence is a personal agent of free will.​

​

Broadly summarized: the eternally self-subsistent cause cannot be natural (or material), as no continuously changing entity of causality can be beginningless. The latter would entail an infinite regress of causal events, which cannot go on in the past forever. There must be a first event, before which there is no change or event. In short, given that an infinite regress of causal events is impossible, the material realm of being cannot be the eternally self-subsistent ground of existence. The eternally self-subsistent cause cannot be abstract either. An abstract object has no causal force, and, in any event, abstractions contingently exist in minds. Hence, the uncaused cause is a wholly transcendent, unembodied mind.​

Is science and math important to your belief in God?

 

[ReinyDays]

Singularity doesn't befuddle me. I just called it a lie and you to believe in lies makes you a wrong way-er. Atheists are usually wrong.

Here's a proof of the existence of singularities ... the one by Nobel Prize winning Roger Penrose ... point to the error please ... show us the lie ...

Penrose–Hawking singularity theorems - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's the liar who screams "liar" first ... you should know that from your Bible ...

A lie is still a lie not dependent upon who screamed, "liar" first.

Anyway, using the fallacy of authoritarianism does not make Penrose-Hawking singularity theorems valid. It's been shown that "accelerated expansion of the Universe with negative Λ are invalid because they are based upon demonstrably false foundations relating to Einstein’s field equations, trapped surfaces, and the cosmological constant."

Care to try again?

Do you have a citation for that quote? ... or did you make it up all on your own? ...

You should also learn what the "fallacy of authoritarianism" is ... I'm relying on actual physicists in matter concerning physics ... internationally recognized experts in the field at hand ...

You call me a liar to direct attention away from your own lies ...

Point to the error ... or you admit there is no error ...

 

[ChemEngineer]

Hence a Line is the one that best fits the chain of logic presented so far in this scenario~thesis.

You have presented no scenario or thesis.
Humans build cars but we are not cars. God made the universe, but that does not make Him one with it. You posit utter nonsense. There is no logic to it whatsoever.

 

[abu afak]

You have presented no scenario or thesis.
Humans build cars but we are not cars. God made the universe, but that does not make Him one with it. You posit utter nonsense. There is no logic to it whatsoever.

Who has no logic you Always Wrong NUMB NUTS?
There is NO god in evidence and certainly not yours.
This is the SCIENCE section where EVIDENCE is required.

`

 

[james bond]

The Bible is the Good Book, the Book of Books. I don't think science is disputing that.

Haha. Atheist science or evolution is disputing that.

those are not natural 24-hour days that the Bible is referring to as the six days of creation.

We know it's 24-hr days because God separated night and day on the first day after creating the EMS (light).

Obviously not all scientists are in agreement to any particular theories of "evolution" per se in a Darwinian sense, but I don't see how the Bible rules out such theories -- God is God, the Master and Architect of the Universe, if one believes in God.

Evolution is a lie. Origins disproves it such as the swan neck flask experiment disproves abiogenesis. The evolutionists cannot explain what existed before the big bang and no space and time. There can be no singularity. Instead, creation science has the Kalam Cosmological argument and Genesis.

 

[james bond]

For further consideration;
Soul Survivor: The Reincarnation of a World War II Fighter Pilot


by
Andrea Leininger,
Bruce Leininger,
Ken Gross (Contributor),
Carol Bowman (Foreword)
...
This is the story of James Leininger, who-- a little more than two weeks after his second birthday-- began having blood-curdling nightmares that just would not stop. When James began screaming out recurring phrases like, "Plane on fire! Little man can't get out!" the Leiningers finally admitted that they truly had to take notice.

When details of planes and war tragedies no two-year-old boy could know continued-- even in stark daylight-- Bruce and Andrea Leininger began to realize that this was an incredible situation. SOUL SURVIVOR is the story of how the Leiningers pieced together what their son was communicating and eventually discovered that he was reliving the past life of World War II fighter pilot James Huston. As Bruce Leininger struggled to understand what was happening to his son, he also uncovered details of James Huston's life-- and death-- as a pilot that will fascinate military buffs everywhere.

In SOUL SURVIVOR, we are taken for a gripping ride as the Leiningers' belief system is shaken to the core, and both of these families come to know a little boy who, against all odds and even in the face of true skeptics, harbors the soul of this man who died long ago.
...

Soul Survivor

This is the story of James Leininger, who-- a little more than two weeks after his second birthday-- began having blood-curdling nightmar...

www.goodreads.com

Hard to believe such happenings from those trying to sell a book.