The Homosexual Dilemma

[bodecea]

Have you ever heard the phrase "No taxation without representation"? Gays pay taxes too. We are citizens. We deserve the same civil rights and benefits, protections, etc. from the state. You may not like it, but there it is.

Lifestyle is not a constitutionally protected status.

Oh? So, gays have no protected civil rights? Is that your assertion?

No more than anyone else. I know, it sucks.

Exactly. Ergo, marriage rights....just like anyone else. That was easy for you to come to now, wasn't it?

They had the same rights as everyone else without gay marriage. Fail.

Wrong....we have been discriminated against based on gender. But you don't need to sign your posts anymore. We know.

 

[bodecea]

Why do gays NEED to adopt children, again? this itself seems like a phony argument that becomes a self fulfilling rationalization, along the lines of: Gays need rights because they have children so we need to protect that, because they LOVE their children and their spouses....That is the most irrational cyclical argument floating out in internet land. Gays can't HAVE children, there for, they don't need parental rights, which is all marriage comes down to. Period, it is that simple.

Well, I adopted our daughter in order to protect my parental rights. Why does ANYONE "need" to adopt children? Answer than one.

My guess is that you adopted your daughter because you fucked up. Is that right?

Mark

Totally incorrect. She was lovingly planned by my wife and I. She had her...I adopted her. One of the best things in our lives.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

But isn't the "age of consent" just a social overlay, as Coyote said? Who are you to say they're love is wrong?

Age of consent is a social/cultural overlay. However - love is wrong when it damages a person. Pedophilia has been shown to be very damaging to children. Children do not have the mental maturity to consent. Adults do. No rights are unlimited.

Including the rights of one person to marry the entire adult population of the planet.

But isn't the "age of consent" just a social overlay, as Coyote said? Who are you to say they're love is wrong?

Because it is sexually harassing minors

Age of what? Oh yeah, that line we draw in the sand because it has to be drawn, but that's all it is, a line in the sand. **** five years older or five years younger and I can't be bothered to give a ****, I have a life to lead.

No, it is a biological reality rather than a 'line in the sand', children have to go through puberty - and brain development takes even longer. At one stage of human civilization, such as the Middle Ages and earlier there were childhood marriages - but back then there was also a short life span.

You say it's sexually harassing, but what if they consent to it? Are you going to deny them their love for a 40 year old obese man? Maybe you need to rethink your backward, religiously motivated judgment of people's lifestyles and start showing a little tolerance. Hateful pedophobes like you are the reason that child lovers have been denied equal rights in this country.

Children can not legally consent.

Define children.Mark

The legislature defines that and age of consent.

You have no worry in your absurd world about pedophiles and age of consent.

You are absurd, absurd, absurd.

The children of the next generation of your religious groups are going to be saying, "Our parents were meat heads."

But any law can be overturned that's found to have violated somebody's "civil rights". We just witnessed that in action. Somehow "it's the law" didn't work to stop gays from redefining marriage, so what's to stop pedophiles from doing the same? They got your playbook and they covet your success.

 

[80zephyr]

But isn't the "age of consent" just a social overlay, as Coyote said? Who are you to say they're love is wrong?

Because it is sexually harassing minors

Age of what? Oh yeah, that line we draw in the sand because it has to be drawn, but that's all it is, a line in the sand. **** five years older or five years younger and I can't be bothered to give a ****, I have a life to lead.

No, it is a biological reality rather than a 'line in the sand', children have to go through puberty - and brain development takes even longer. At one stage of human civilization, such as the Middle Ages and earlier there were childhood marriages - but back then there was also a short life span.

You say it's sexually harassing, but what if they consent to it?[...]

When you can find an infant that can actually have sex with an adult and consent to it, let me know.

And yet again, you are using your values of adulthood to make your determination.

You are a "bigot"[...]

Meh. If I wanted to waste time I could play name games like you, but I really don't see the point.

Really? Translation: I have no answer. Therefore, I chose not to.

If you have a standard that you will not cross, you are, by definition, a bigot.

Sorry that upsets you.

Mark

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Lifestyle is not a constitutionally protected status.

Oh? So, gays have no protected civil rights? Is that your assertion?

No more than anyone else. I know, it sucks.

Exactly. Ergo, marriage rights....just like anyone else. That was easy for you to come to now, wasn't it?

They had the same rights as everyone else without gay marriage. Fail.

Wrong....we have been discriminated against based on gender. But you don't need to sign your posts anymore. We know.

No you haven't. Marriage laws allow anyone to marry an unrelated person of the opposite sex. This applies no matter what your gender is. Ergo, no discrimination. Invincible logic.

 

[hipeter924]

When you can find an infant that can actually have sex with an adult and consent to it, let me know.

But what if a child did consent to it? Who are you to tell that child their love is wrong?

I child can not legally consent and for good reason. They are not mature. We - adults, parents - ARE their guardians for a reason. So yes, it is our responsibility to protect them. This is totally different than a relationship with two consenting adults and is nothing more than a diversion.

You just said that the age of consent is a social overlay, so who's to say our culture is right and the culture in Saudi Arabia is wrong? What if children are ready for sex by the age of 12? Who are you to stand in the way of their love and their civil rights?

I'm arguing from a scientific viewpoint that recognizes that sexual exploitation of prebuscent children is very damaging to the child. In addition, child marriages in areas that do allow it are often very damaging to the girl - physically (because she is not mature enough for child birth), educationally (because her education stops) and she is frequently a victim of abuse. "Age of consent" is cultural in that it spans an age from 12-18 (a few have no minimum) but child advocate groups are trying to make it at least 16.

You are arguing from a scientific viewpoint? Me to. Men cannot have "sex" with other men. Neither can women.

Check, Mate.

Mark

False. Females can donate their eggs, and Males their sperm. Irrespective of whether someone is gay or not, the result is a baby - through artificial means: For Gay Men Becoming a Parent through Surrogacy

Options for family building
Gay couples who want to have children will need an egg donor, who provides the eggs, as well as a surrogate, who will carry the pregnancy. The egg donor and surrogate can be two different women (uses gestational surrogate), or one in the same (known as a traditional surrogate). Note that some states, however, mandate that the donor and surrogate must be two different women.

These roles may be provided for gay men by their female relatives or friends. Alternatively, some fertility clinics, agencies and attorneys facilitate connections with surrogates and egg donors.

1. Traditional surrogacy with Artificial Insemination (AI)
In this case the surrogate is artificially inseminated with the intended biological father's sperm.

2. IVF and Egg Donation and Gestational Surrogate
Using this scenario, two women are involved. IVF (in vitro fertilization) is used to control the ovulatory process, removing eggs from the donor's ovaries and letting sperm fertilize them in a fluid medium (in vitro). The resulting embryos are then transferred to the surrogate's uterus with the intent to establish a successful pregnancy.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Age of consent is a social/cultural overlay. However - love is wrong when it damages a person. Pedophilia has been shown to be very damaging to children. Children do not have the mental maturity to consent. Adults do. No rights are unlimited.

Including the rights of one person to marry the entire adult population of the planet.

Because it is sexually harassing minors
No, it is a biological reality rather than a 'line in the sand', children have to go through puberty - and brain development takes even longer. At one stage of human civilization, such as the Middle Ages and earlier there were childhood marriages - but back then there was also a short life span.

You say it's sexually harassing, but what if they consent to it? Are you going to deny them their love for a 40 year old obese man? Maybe you need to rethink your backward, religiously motivated judgment of people's lifestyles and start showing a little tolerance. Hateful pedophobes like you are the reason that child lovers have been denied equal rights in this country.

Children can not legally consent.

Define children.Mark

The legislature defines that and age of consent.

You have no worry in your absurd world about pedophiles and age of consent.

You are absurd, absurd, absurd.

The children of the next generation of your religious groups are going to be saying, "Our parents were meat heads."

Are you sensing the underlying current here?

The desperation of fear and sweat of seeing Defeat bearing down.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Why do gays NEED to adopt children, again? this itself seems like a phony argument that becomes a self fulfilling rationalization, along the lines of: Gays need rights because they have children so we need to protect that, because they LOVE their children and their spouses....That is the most irrational cyclical argument floating out in internet land. Gays can't HAVE children, there for, they don't need parental rights, which is all marriage comes down to. Period, it is that simple.

Well, I adopted our daughter in order to protect my parental rights. Why does ANYONE "need" to adopt children? Answer than one.

My guess is that you adopted your daughter because you fucked up. Is that right?

Mark

Totally incorrect. She was lovingly planned by my wife and I. She had her...I adopted her. One of the best things in our lives.

Where's her father? Whether you got sperm at a sperm bank or have a father that you keep out of the picture, one way or another you perverted the natural order to have your arrangement and delusion. It was entirely a self centered act.

 

[80zephyr]

But what if a child did consent to it? Who are you to tell that child their love is wrong?

I child can not legally consent and for good reason. They are not mature. We - adults, parents - ARE their guardians for a reason. So yes, it is our responsibility to protect them. This is totally different than a relationship with two consenting adults and is nothing more than a diversion.

You just said that the age of consent is a social overlay, so who's to say our culture is right and the culture in Saudi Arabia is wrong? What if children are ready for sex by the age of 12? Who are you to stand in the way of their love and their civil rights?

I'm arguing from a scientific viewpoint that recognizes that sexual exploitation of prebuscent children is very damaging to the child. In addition, child marriages in areas that do allow it are often very damaging to the girl - physically (because she is not mature enough for child birth), educationally (because her education stops) and she is frequently a victim of abuse. "Age of consent" is cultural in that it spans an age from 12-18 (a few have no minimum) but child advocate groups are trying to make it at least 16.

You are arguing from a scientific viewpoint? Me to. Men cannot have "sex" with other men. Neither can women.

Check, Mate.

Mark

Oh....DO tell us more about your "qualifications" for sex.

I don't need qualifications to understand reality.

You are not having sex. Sex is procreation. You cannot procreate.

Mark

 

[hipeter924]

Because it is sexually harassing minors
No, it is a biological reality rather than a 'line in the sand', children have to go through puberty - and brain development takes even longer. At one stage of human civilization, such as the Middle Ages and earlier there were childhood marriages - but back then there was also a short life span.

You say it's sexually harassing, but what if they consent to it?[...]

When you can find an infant that can actually have sex with an adult and consent to it, let me know.

And yet again, you are using your values of adulthood to make your determination.

You are a "bigot"[...]

Meh. If I wanted to waste time I could play name games like you, but I really don't see the point.

Really? Translation: I have no answer. Therefore, I chose not to.

If you have a standard that you will not cross, you are, by definition, a bigot.

Sorry that upsets you.

Mark

I put you on ignore the moment you started spouting BS. If I wanted to be trolled I could visit 4chan.

 

[bodecea]

Age of consent is a social/cultural overlay. However - love is wrong when it damages a person. Pedophilia has been shown to be very damaging to children. Children do not have the mental maturity to consent. Adults do. No rights are unlimited.

Including the rights of one person to marry the entire adult population of the planet.

Because it is sexually harassing minors
No, it is a biological reality rather than a 'line in the sand', children have to go through puberty - and brain development takes even longer. At one stage of human civilization, such as the Middle Ages and earlier there were childhood marriages - but back then there was also a short life span.

You say it's sexually harassing, but what if they consent to it? Are you going to deny them their love for a 40 year old obese man? Maybe you need to rethink your backward, religiously motivated judgment of people's lifestyles and start showing a little tolerance. Hateful pedophobes like you are the reason that child lovers have been denied equal rights in this country.

Children can not legally consent.

Define children.Mark

The legislature defines that and age of consent.

You have no worry in your absurd world about pedophiles and age of consent.

You are absurd, absurd, absurd.

The children of the next generation of your religious groups are going to be saying, "Our parents were meat heads."

But any law can be overturned that's found to have violated somebody's "civil rights". We just witnessed that in action. Somehow "it's the law" didn't work to stop gays from redefining marriage, so what's to stop pedophiles from doing the same? They got your playbook and they covet your success.

Right...a law can be declared unConstitutional...with Constitutional basis. What basis have you got to legalize pedophilia. Share with us your reasoning.

 

[80zephyr]

No.

No one is demanding the governent give anyone "stuff".

The only demand is that the government apply the Constitution equally. As in - the right to vote. The right to use public drinking fountains. The right to marry. ...

Then we're good to go here, given that no one is being prohibited from marrying anyone, as long as they apply with only one other person and that person is a member of the distinct gender.

A standard which is applied EQUALLY, throughout the entire United States and without exception.

Why does it need to be a "distinct gender"? That automatically is discrimminatory. Heteros can marry the person they love. Homos can not.

"the person they love" seriously?

Give me another law that changes based on what someone wants.

If a bi-sexual wants to marry based on "love", they should be able to marry the man and woman of their choice.

Anyone that limits them is a bigot.

Mark

You don't seem to understand what the word "bi-sexual" means.

I don't? Why don't you explain it to me.

Mark

 

[bodecea]

Oh? So, gays have no protected civil rights? Is that your assertion?

No more than anyone else. I know, it sucks.

Exactly. Ergo, marriage rights....just like anyone else. That was easy for you to come to now, wasn't it?

They had the same rights as everyone else without gay marriage. Fail.

Wrong....we have been discriminated against based on gender. But you don't need to sign your posts anymore. We know.

No you haven't. Marriage laws allow anyone to marry an unrelated person of the opposite sex. This applies no matter what your gender is. Ergo, no discrimination. Invincible logic.

Not anymore in most states.

 

[80zephyr]

Why do gays NEED to adopt children, again? this itself seems like a phony argument that becomes a self fulfilling rationalization, along the lines of: Gays need rights because they have children so we need to protect that, because they LOVE their children and their spouses....That is the most irrational cyclical argument floating out in internet land. Gays can't HAVE children, there for, they don't need parental rights, which is all marriage comes down to. Period, it is that simple.

Well, I adopted our daughter in order to protect my parental rights. Why does ANYONE "need" to adopt children? Answer than one.

My guess is that you adopted your daughter because you fucked up. Is that right?

Mark

Totally incorrect. She was lovingly planned by my wife and I. She had her...I adopted her. One of the best things in our lives.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Oh....DO tell us more about your "qualifications" for sex.

 

[bodecea]

Including the rights of one person to marry the entire adult population of the planet.

You say it's sexually harassing, but what if they consent to it? Are you going to deny them their love for a 40 year old obese man? Maybe you need to rethink your backward, religiously motivated judgment of people's lifestyles and start showing a little tolerance. Hateful pedophobes like you are the reason that child lovers have been denied equal rights in this country.

Children can not legally consent.

Define children.Mark

The legislature defines that and age of consent.

You have no worry in your absurd world about pedophiles and age of consent.

You are absurd, absurd, absurd.

The children of the next generation of your religious groups are going to be saying, "Our parents were meat heads."

Are you sensing the underlying current here?

The desperation of fear and sweat of seeing Defeat bearing down.

Isn't it horrible that they cannot discriminate legally against gay citizens anymore?

 

[80zephyr]

Why do gays NEED to adopt children, again? this itself seems like a phony argument that becomes a self fulfilling rationalization, along the lines of: Gays need rights because they have children so we need to protect that, because they LOVE their children and their spouses....That is the most irrational cyclical argument floating out in internet land. Gays can't HAVE children, there for, they don't need parental rights, which is all marriage comes down to. Period, it is that simple.

Well, I adopted our daughter in order to protect my parental rights. Why does ANYONE "need" to adopt children? Answer than one.

My guess is that you adopted your daughter because you fucked up. Is that right?

Mark

Totally incorrect. She was lovingly planned by my wife and I. She had her...I adopted her. One of the best things in our lives.

Where's her father? Whether you got sperm at a sperm bank or have a father that you keep out of the picture, one way or another you perverted the natural order to have your arrangement and delusion. It was entirely a self centered act.

They don't care. Hence, she fucked up.

Mark

 

[bodecea]

Why do gays NEED to adopt children, again? this itself seems like a phony argument that becomes a self fulfilling rationalization, along the lines of: Gays need rights because they have children so we need to protect that, because they LOVE their children and their spouses....That is the most irrational cyclical argument floating out in internet land. Gays can't HAVE children, there for, they don't need parental rights, which is all marriage comes down to. Period, it is that simple.

Well, I adopted our daughter in order to protect my parental rights. Why does ANYONE "need" to adopt children? Answer than one.

My guess is that you adopted your daughter because you fucked up. Is that right?

Mark

Totally incorrect. She was lovingly planned by my wife and I. She had her...I adopted her. One of the best things in our lives.

Where's her father? Whether you got sperm at a sperm bank or have a father that you keep out of the picture, one way or another you perverted the natural order to have your arrangement and delusion. It was entirely a self centered act.

We had a sperm donor....a wonderful service that was actually generated decades ago for childless straight couples and now also used by gay couples.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

No.

No one is demanding the governent give anyone "stuff".

The only demand is that the government apply the Constitution equally. As in - the right to vote. The right to use public drinking fountains. The right to marry. ...

Then we're good to go here, given that no one is being prohibited from marrying anyone, as long as they apply with only one other person and that person is a member of the distinct gender.

A standard which is applied EQUALLY, throughout the entire United States and without exception.

Why does it need to be a "distinct gender"? That automatically is discrimminatory. Heteros can marry the person they love. Homos can not.

"the person they love" seriously?

Give me another law that changes based on what someone wants.

If a bi-sexual wants to marry based on "love", they should be able to marry the man and woman of their choice.

Anyone that limits them is a bigot.

Mark

You don't seem to understand what the word "bi-sexual" means.

It means the same as Santa Clause. Doesn't exist.

 

[bodecea]

I child can not legally consent and for good reason. They are not mature. We - adults, parents - ARE their guardians for a reason. So yes, it is our responsibility to protect them. This is totally different than a relationship with two consenting adults and is nothing more than a diversion.

You just said that the age of consent is a social overlay, so who's to say our culture is right and the culture in Saudi Arabia is wrong? What if children are ready for sex by the age of 12? Who are you to stand in the way of their love and their civil rights?

I'm arguing from a scientific viewpoint that recognizes that sexual exploitation of prebuscent children is very damaging to the child. In addition, child marriages in areas that do allow it are often very damaging to the girl - physically (because she is not mature enough for child birth), educationally (because her education stops) and she is frequently a victim of abuse. "Age of consent" is cultural in that it spans an age from 12-18 (a few have no minimum) but child advocate groups are trying to make it at least 16.

You are arguing from a scientific viewpoint? Me to. Men cannot have "sex" with other men. Neither can women.

Check, Mate.

Mark

Oh....DO tell us more about your "qualifications" for sex.

I don't need qualifications to understand reality.

You are not having sex. Sex is procreation. You cannot procreate.

Mark

So sex is only for procreation? Oh you poor beknighted soul.