The gun used yesterday...was California compliant, it was likely and SKS

[airplanemechanic]

guns are not the problem.....how we sentence repeat gun offenders is the actual problem.....since the average sentence for a repeat gun offender here in Chicago is less than 3 years...and then they get out, get another illegal gun, and commit murder.

I know its off topic but I saw you said you were in Chicago. I'm a truck driver and I'm camped out in my sleeper right now at O'hare waiting to haul freight tonight out of here. Howdy neighbor! (I'm from Louisiana so we are temporarily neighbors! LOL)

 

[Mudda]

That still doesn't stop the violence, it's an after-the-fact thing you're talking about. I'm for finding ways to PREVENT stuff from happening. Other countries can do it, but we can't?

You can't.....law abiding people are not committing these crimes...criminals get their guns illegally since the law already says they can't buy, own or carry them.

Other countries can't do it....Britain has seen increasing gun crime, they banned guns.

Australia, increasing gun crime, they banned guns.

Japan....yakuza use guns when they want or need them, the other Japanese obey authorities and they have a police state.

Rifles like this are banned in France....criminals get them easily, as do terrorists on government watch lists who are also convicted criminals...

Besides....you are addressing a problem we don't have with our laws.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400 million guns in private hands and over 15.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

So to you, a country totally armed is a safe place.

Just one question: where do you think the criminals are getting their illegal guns from?

Yes......just ask the people of Mexico......the government only allows the rich and connected to own guns...the Mexican military owns the only gun store in the country.....and the Mexican military and police, working for the Mexican drug cartels, murder 10s of thousands of Mexican Citizens every year...right along our border....where Americans own more guns...but have less to worry about when it comes to murder....

Germany......disarmed their people in the 1920s....and the records used to register guns...those that remained...were used by the national socialists to disarm Jews and their political enemies....

As more Americans own guns and carry them...our crime rate has gone down, not up....as my link to you showed.....

guns are not the problem.....how we sentence repeat gun offenders is the actual problem.....since the average sentence for a repeat gun offender here in Chicago is less than 3 years...and then they get out, get another illegal gun, and commit murder.

The criminals get their guns from family members who can pass all of the current and future gun laws......they also get them by breaking into homes and cars...cars, because so many places are gun free zones, law abiding people have to keep their concealed carry guns in their cars when they go into various places......

The way Japan stopped most of the Yakuza, not all, and not during their gang wars.....from using guns....long prison sentences to the point they would be old men before they got out...where before they could use a gun, do several years, get out, and get a bump up for being seasoned criminals...now, the bosses tell the press that the long sentences are essentially a life sentence ....

So you don't know where criminals get their guns? I'll tell you, from legal gun manufacturers. The process by which they obtain them is what's the problem.

I just told you where they get them from...in detail......

Since you don't read my posts...here it is again...

The criminals get their guns from family members who can pass all of the current and future gun laws......they also get them by breaking into homes and cars...cars, because so many places are gun free zones, law abiding people have to keep their concealed carry guns in their cars when they go into various places......

So better laws family-member-wise are needed. As for stolen guns, a fingerprint scanner on the gun would do the trick, so only the actual owner could use it.

 

[2aguy]

You can't.....law abiding people are not committing these crimes...criminals get their guns illegally since the law already says they can't buy, own or carry them.

Other countries can't do it....Britain has seen increasing gun crime, they banned guns.

Australia, increasing gun crime, they banned guns.

Japan....yakuza use guns when they want or need them, the other Japanese obey authorities and they have a police state.

Rifles like this are banned in France....criminals get them easily, as do terrorists on government watch lists who are also convicted criminals...

Besides....you are addressing a problem we don't have with our laws.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400 million guns in private hands and over 15.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

So to you, a country totally armed is a safe place.

Just one question: where do you think the criminals are getting their illegal guns from?

Yes......just ask the people of Mexico......the government only allows the rich and connected to own guns...the Mexican military owns the only gun store in the country.....and the Mexican military and police, working for the Mexican drug cartels, murder 10s of thousands of Mexican Citizens every year...right along our border....where Americans own more guns...but have less to worry about when it comes to murder....

Germany......disarmed their people in the 1920s....and the records used to register guns...those that remained...were used by the national socialists to disarm Jews and their political enemies....

As more Americans own guns and carry them...our crime rate has gone down, not up....as my link to you showed.....

guns are not the problem.....how we sentence repeat gun offenders is the actual problem.....since the average sentence for a repeat gun offender here in Chicago is less than 3 years...and then they get out, get another illegal gun, and commit murder.

The criminals get their guns from family members who can pass all of the current and future gun laws......they also get them by breaking into homes and cars...cars, because so many places are gun free zones, law abiding people have to keep their concealed carry guns in their cars when they go into various places......

The way Japan stopped most of the Yakuza, not all, and not during their gang wars.....from using guns....long prison sentences to the point they would be old men before they got out...where before they could use a gun, do several years, get out, and get a bump up for being seasoned criminals...now, the bosses tell the press that the long sentences are essentially a life sentence ....

So you don't know where criminals get their guns? I'll tell you, from legal gun manufacturers. The process by which they obtain them is what's the problem.

I just told you where they get them from...in detail......

Since you don't read my posts...here it is again...

The criminals get their guns from family members who can pass all of the current and future gun laws......they also get them by breaking into homes and cars...cars, because so many places are gun free zones, law abiding people have to keep their concealed carry guns in their cars when they go into various places......

So better laws family-member-wise are needed. As for stolen guns, a fingerprint scanner on the gun would do the trick, so only the actual owner could use it.

No.....we already have laws for giving or selling guns to felons....families included...and once again...the judicial system falls down......

America Should Be Prosecuting Straw Purchasers, Not Gun Dealers

Wisconsin isn’t alone in its nonchalance. California normally treats straw purchases as misdemeanors or minor infractions. Even as the people of Baltimore suffer horrific levels of violence, Maryland classifies the crime as a misdemeanor, too. Straw buying is a felony in progressive Connecticut, albeit one in the second-least-serious order of felonies. It is classified as a serious crime in Illinois (Class 2 felony), but police rarely (meaning “almost never”) go after the nephews and girlfriends with clean records who provide Chicago’s diverse and sundry gangsters with their weapons. In Delaware, it’s a Class F felony, like forging a check. In Oregon, it’s a misdemeanor.

--------

I visited Chicago a few years back to write about the city’s gang-driven murder problem, and a retired police official told me that the nature of the people making straw purchases — young relatives, girlfriends who may or may not have been facing the threat of physical violence, grandmothers, etc. — made prosecuting those cases unattractive. In most of those cases, the authorities emphatically should put the straw purchasers in prison for as long as possible. Throw a few gangsters’ grandmothers behind bars for 20 years and see if that gets anybody’s attention. In the case of the young women suborned into breaking the law, that should be just another charge to put on the main offender.

And finger prints on guns is a dumb idea......it doesn't work, and if you can program the first finger print, you can change it....criminals will simply change the recorded print....

Smart guns are a stupid idea....

 

[Mudda]

So to you, a country totally armed is a safe place.

Just one question: where do you think the criminals are getting their illegal guns from?

Yes......just ask the people of Mexico......the government only allows the rich and connected to own guns...the Mexican military owns the only gun store in the country.....and the Mexican military and police, working for the Mexican drug cartels, murder 10s of thousands of Mexican Citizens every year...right along our border....where Americans own more guns...but have less to worry about when it comes to murder....

Germany......disarmed their people in the 1920s....and the records used to register guns...those that remained...were used by the national socialists to disarm Jews and their political enemies....

As more Americans own guns and carry them...our crime rate has gone down, not up....as my link to you showed.....

guns are not the problem.....how we sentence repeat gun offenders is the actual problem.....since the average sentence for a repeat gun offender here in Chicago is less than 3 years...and then they get out, get another illegal gun, and commit murder.

The criminals get their guns from family members who can pass all of the current and future gun laws......they also get them by breaking into homes and cars...cars, because so many places are gun free zones, law abiding people have to keep their concealed carry guns in their cars when they go into various places......

The way Japan stopped most of the Yakuza, not all, and not during their gang wars.....from using guns....long prison sentences to the point they would be old men before they got out...where before they could use a gun, do several years, get out, and get a bump up for being seasoned criminals...now, the bosses tell the press that the long sentences are essentially a life sentence ....

So you don't know where criminals get their guns? I'll tell you, from legal gun manufacturers. The process by which they obtain them is what's the problem.

I just told you where they get them from...in detail......

Since you don't read my posts...here it is again...

The criminals get their guns from family members who can pass all of the current and future gun laws......they also get them by breaking into homes and cars...cars, because so many places are gun free zones, law abiding people have to keep their concealed carry guns in their cars when they go into various places......

So better laws family-member-wise are needed. As for stolen guns, a fingerprint scanner on the gun would do the trick, so only the actual owner could use it.

No.....we already have laws for giving or selling guns to felons....families included...and once again...the judicial system falls down......

America Should Be Prosecuting Straw Purchasers, Not Gun Dealers

Wisconsin isn’t alone in its nonchalance. California normally treats straw purchases as misdemeanors or minor infractions. Even as the people of Baltimore suffer horrific levels of violence, Maryland classifies the crime as a misdemeanor, too. Straw buying is a felony in progressive Connecticut, albeit one in the second-least-serious order of felonies. It is classified as a serious crime in Illinois (Class 2 felony), but police rarely (meaning “almost never”) go after the nephews and girlfriends with clean records who provide Chicago’s diverse and sundry gangsters with their weapons. In Delaware, it’s a Class F felony, like forging a check. In Oregon, it’s a misdemeanor.

--------

I visited Chicago a few years back to write about the city’s gang-driven murder problem, and a retired police official told me that the nature of the people making straw purchases — young relatives, girlfriends who may or may not have been facing the threat of physical violence, grandmothers, etc. — made prosecuting those cases unattractive. In most of those cases, the authorities emphatically should put the straw purchasers in prison for as long as possible. Throw a few gangsters’ grandmothers behind bars for 20 years and see if that gets anybody’s attention. In the case of the young women suborned into breaking the law, that should be just another charge to put on the main offender.

And finger prints on guns is a dumb idea......it doesn't work, and if you can program the first finger print, you can change it....criminals will simply change the recorded print....

Smart guns are a stupid idea....

We can send rovers to mars, but we can't make a safe, smart gun? Um... no.

 

[2aguy]

Yes......just ask the people of Mexico......the government only allows the rich and connected to own guns...the Mexican military owns the only gun store in the country.....and the Mexican military and police, working for the Mexican drug cartels, murder 10s of thousands of Mexican Citizens every year...right along our border....where Americans own more guns...but have less to worry about when it comes to murder....

Germany......disarmed their people in the 1920s....and the records used to register guns...those that remained...were used by the national socialists to disarm Jews and their political enemies....

As more Americans own guns and carry them...our crime rate has gone down, not up....as my link to you showed.....

guns are not the problem.....how we sentence repeat gun offenders is the actual problem.....since the average sentence for a repeat gun offender here in Chicago is less than 3 years...and then they get out, get another illegal gun, and commit murder.

The criminals get their guns from family members who can pass all of the current and future gun laws......they also get them by breaking into homes and cars...cars, because so many places are gun free zones, law abiding people have to keep their concealed carry guns in their cars when they go into various places......

The way Japan stopped most of the Yakuza, not all, and not during their gang wars.....from using guns....long prison sentences to the point they would be old men before they got out...where before they could use a gun, do several years, get out, and get a bump up for being seasoned criminals...now, the bosses tell the press that the long sentences are essentially a life sentence ....

So you don't know where criminals get their guns? I'll tell you, from legal gun manufacturers. The process by which they obtain them is what's the problem.

I just told you where they get them from...in detail......

Since you don't read my posts...here it is again...

The criminals get their guns from family members who can pass all of the current and future gun laws......they also get them by breaking into homes and cars...cars, because so many places are gun free zones, law abiding people have to keep their concealed carry guns in their cars when they go into various places......

So better laws family-member-wise are needed. As for stolen guns, a fingerprint scanner on the gun would do the trick, so only the actual owner could use it.

No.....we already have laws for giving or selling guns to felons....families included...and once again...the judicial system falls down......

America Should Be Prosecuting Straw Purchasers, Not Gun Dealers

Wisconsin isn’t alone in its nonchalance. California normally treats straw purchases as misdemeanors or minor infractions. Even as the people of Baltimore suffer horrific levels of violence, Maryland classifies the crime as a misdemeanor, too. Straw buying is a felony in progressive Connecticut, albeit one in the second-least-serious order of felonies. It is classified as a serious crime in Illinois (Class 2 felony), but police rarely (meaning “almost never”) go after the nephews and girlfriends with clean records who provide Chicago’s diverse and sundry gangsters with their weapons. In Delaware, it’s a Class F felony, like forging a check. In Oregon, it’s a misdemeanor.

--------

I visited Chicago a few years back to write about the city’s gang-driven murder problem, and a retired police official told me that the nature of the people making straw purchases — young relatives, girlfriends who may or may not have been facing the threat of physical violence, grandmothers, etc. — made prosecuting those cases unattractive. In most of those cases, the authorities emphatically should put the straw purchasers in prison for as long as possible. Throw a few gangsters’ grandmothers behind bars for 20 years and see if that gets anybody’s attention. In the case of the young women suborned into breaking the law, that should be just another charge to put on the main offender.

And finger prints on guns is a dumb idea......it doesn't work, and if you can program the first finger print, you can change it....criminals will simply change the recorded print....

Smart guns are a stupid idea....

We can send rovers to mars, but we can't make a safe, smart gun? Um... no.

Nope......here...why smart guns are stupid........

Smart Guns are Stupid Science | RealClearScience


The power has been out for two months. Word of mouth, around the FEMA depots, says it should be back soon. That's what they said last month too. Suddenly, in the wreckage of your home, you hear the footsteps of a band of looters. You reach for your gun, but it won't unlock because its battery died last week...

You fell asleep on the couch. A burglar kicks down your front door and jams a cold pistol muzzle to your forehead. You realize that the gun your wife is groping for in the dark bedroomwill only fire if it is within inches of the RFID watch. But the watch is on your arm...



The whole point of owning a gun is that you only need to use it in the most extreme situations (and you pray these never arise). You don't plug your gun into a USB port before going to bed, knowing that tonight is the night that you'll need it. You don't pop on your special RFID digital watch before slipping between the sheets. A gun needs to be ready for the only circumstances it is designed for: the unimaginably horrible ones.

A gun that is hamstrung by special technological conditions to fire is a liability to an owner who keeps it for protection from these terrifying moments. Science would say that smart guns are a stupid idea.

Murphy, author of the famous law, is unknown to history. It's a good bet that he was a scientist, or possibly an engineer. He stressed one of the most important things to understand as a practitioner of sound laboratory science -- and daily life -- is the minimization of extraneous variables. The fewer things that you need to happen perfectly right, the more likely your plan is to succeed.

Gun technology changes very little over time. This isn't due to lack of scientific progress or some conspiracy. Quite simply, a reliable tool should be as simple as it can possibly be. A cleaned, oiled, mechanically sound gun is extremely simple. It doesn't suffer from unnecessary complications that risk failure at a crucial instant.

A gun should not be like a high-tech complex scientific tool or tech toy. If your iPhone crashes or drops a call you can simply wait for it to reboot or call back. If the fancy lab microscope breaks, a technician can come and fix it, but you'll have to wait an hour or a day to use it.

When the moment comes to use your firearm, you need it to work perfectly with no delay or fiddling. There is zero margin for error. A more complex gun, reliant on batteries and chips and special mechanisms, is simply a gun that is more likely to let you down in the moment when your life hangs in the balance.

If we want to reduce accidental gun deaths, what should we do instead? The answer is training gun owners to strictly follow simple rules. In brief terms, there are two layers to this strategy.

When handling a firearm, it is imperative to operate by a few simple rules at all times. First, always assume a gun is loaded; never play with it, wave it around, or treat it as harmless. Second, never point the muzzle at a person unless you intend to kill them. Imagine that a laser pointer is taped to the barrel; anyone that the laser passes near is in the "kill path." Third, never place your finger on the trigger until you are pulling it; this way you can never fire unintentionally.

The second layer of gun responsibility applies when the firearm is not being handled. Obviously, put the safety on, and don't leave your gun in a place that is easy to find. Do not load it unless it is tucked away in that storage spot. If you fear a curious child, you can load a single dummy round into the chamber. This will prevent a child from discharging a live round, but only slow the owner a fraction of a second by requiring a single mechanical action without technological aids to clear that round and chamber a live one. Mechanical locks and safes can be used, but here again you are relying on complicated devices and tempting Murphy.

 

[Mudda]

So you don't know where criminals get their guns? I'll tell you, from legal gun manufacturers. The process by which they obtain them is what's the problem.

I just told you where they get them from...in detail......

Since you don't read my posts...here it is again...

The criminals get their guns from family members who can pass all of the current and future gun laws......they also get them by breaking into homes and cars...cars, because so many places are gun free zones, law abiding people have to keep their concealed carry guns in their cars when they go into various places......

So better laws family-member-wise are needed. As for stolen guns, a fingerprint scanner on the gun would do the trick, so only the actual owner could use it.

No.....we already have laws for giving or selling guns to felons....families included...and once again...the judicial system falls down......

America Should Be Prosecuting Straw Purchasers, Not Gun Dealers

Wisconsin isn’t alone in its nonchalance. California normally treats straw purchases as misdemeanors or minor infractions. Even as the people of Baltimore suffer horrific levels of violence, Maryland classifies the crime as a misdemeanor, too. Straw buying is a felony in progressive Connecticut, albeit one in the second-least-serious order of felonies. It is classified as a serious crime in Illinois (Class 2 felony), but police rarely (meaning “almost never”) go after the nephews and girlfriends with clean records who provide Chicago’s diverse and sundry gangsters with their weapons. In Delaware, it’s a Class F felony, like forging a check. In Oregon, it’s a misdemeanor.

--------

I visited Chicago a few years back to write about the city’s gang-driven murder problem, and a retired police official told me that the nature of the people making straw purchases — young relatives, girlfriends who may or may not have been facing the threat of physical violence, grandmothers, etc. — made prosecuting those cases unattractive. In most of those cases, the authorities emphatically should put the straw purchasers in prison for as long as possible. Throw a few gangsters’ grandmothers behind bars for 20 years and see if that gets anybody’s attention. In the case of the young women suborned into breaking the law, that should be just another charge to put on the main offender.

And finger prints on guns is a dumb idea......it doesn't work, and if you can program the first finger print, you can change it....criminals will simply change the recorded print....

Smart guns are a stupid idea....

We can send rovers to mars, but we can't make a safe, smart gun? Um... no.

Nope......here...why smart guns are stupid........

Smart Guns are Stupid Science | RealClearScience


The power has been out for two months. Word of mouth, around the FEMA depots, says it should be back soon. That's what they said last month too. Suddenly, in the wreckage of your home, you hear the footsteps of a band of looters. You reach for your gun, but it won't unlock because its battery died last week...

You fell asleep on the couch. A burglar kicks down your front door and jams a cold pistol muzzle to your forehead. You realize that the gun your wife is groping for in the dark bedroomwill only fire if it is within inches of the RFID watch. But the watch is on your arm...



The whole point of owning a gun is that you only need to use it in the most extreme situations (and you pray these never arise). You don't plug your gun into a USB port before going to bed, knowing that tonight is the night that you'll need it. You don't pop on your special RFID digital watch before slipping between the sheets. A gun needs to be ready for the only circumstances it is designed for: the unimaginably horrible ones.

A gun that is hamstrung by special technological conditions to fire is a liability to an owner who keeps it for protection from these terrifying moments. Science would say that smart guns are a stupid idea.

Murphy, author of the famous law, is unknown to history. It's a good bet that he was a scientist, or possibly an engineer. He stressed one of the most important things to understand as a practitioner of sound laboratory science -- and daily life -- is the minimization of extraneous variables. The fewer things that you need to happen perfectly right, the more likely your plan is to succeed.

Gun technology changes very little over time. This isn't due to lack of scientific progress or some conspiracy. Quite simply, a reliable tool should be as simple as it can possibly be. A cleaned, oiled, mechanically sound gun is extremely simple. It doesn't suffer from unnecessary complications that risk failure at a crucial instant.

A gun should not be like a high-tech complex scientific tool or tech toy. If your iPhone crashes or drops a call you can simply wait for it to reboot or call back. If the fancy lab microscope breaks, a technician can come and fix it, but you'll have to wait an hour or a day to use it.

When the moment comes to use your firearm, you need it to work perfectly with no delay or fiddling. There is zero margin for error. A more complex gun, reliant on batteries and chips and special mechanisms, is simply a gun that is more likely to let you down in the moment when your life hangs in the balance.

If we want to reduce accidental gun deaths, what should we do instead? The answer is training gun owners to strictly follow simple rules. In brief terms, there are two layers to this strategy.

When handling a firearm, it is imperative to operate by a few simple rules at all times. First, always assume a gun is loaded; never play with it, wave it around, or treat it as harmless. Second, never point the muzzle at a person unless you intend to kill them. Imagine that a laser pointer is taped to the barrel; anyone that the laser passes near is in the "kill path." Third, never place your finger on the trigger until you are pulling it; this way you can never fire unintentionally.

The second layer of gun responsibility applies when the firearm is not being handled. Obviously, put the safety on, and don't leave your gun in a place that is easy to find. Do not load it unless it is tucked away in that storage spot. If you fear a curious child, you can load a single dummy round into the chamber. This will prevent a child from discharging a live round, but only slow the owner a fraction of a second by requiring a single mechanical action without technological aids to clear that round and chamber a live one. Mechanical locks and safes can be used, but here again you are relying on complicated devices and tempting Murphy.

We have the technology to do it, don't give me a load of malarkey.

 

[2aguy]

I just told you where they get them from...in detail......

Since you don't read my posts...here it is again...

The criminals get their guns from family members who can pass all of the current and future gun laws......they also get them by breaking into homes and cars...cars, because so many places are gun free zones, law abiding people have to keep their concealed carry guns in their cars when they go into various places......

So better laws family-member-wise are needed. As for stolen guns, a fingerprint scanner on the gun would do the trick, so only the actual owner could use it.

No.....we already have laws for giving or selling guns to felons....families included...and once again...the judicial system falls down......

America Should Be Prosecuting Straw Purchasers, Not Gun Dealers

Wisconsin isn’t alone in its nonchalance. California normally treats straw purchases as misdemeanors or minor infractions. Even as the people of Baltimore suffer horrific levels of violence, Maryland classifies the crime as a misdemeanor, too. Straw buying is a felony in progressive Connecticut, albeit one in the second-least-serious order of felonies. It is classified as a serious crime in Illinois (Class 2 felony), but police rarely (meaning “almost never”) go after the nephews and girlfriends with clean records who provide Chicago’s diverse and sundry gangsters with their weapons. In Delaware, it’s a Class F felony, like forging a check. In Oregon, it’s a misdemeanor.

--------

I visited Chicago a few years back to write about the city’s gang-driven murder problem, and a retired police official told me that the nature of the people making straw purchases — young relatives, girlfriends who may or may not have been facing the threat of physical violence, grandmothers, etc. — made prosecuting those cases unattractive. In most of those cases, the authorities emphatically should put the straw purchasers in prison for as long as possible. Throw a few gangsters’ grandmothers behind bars for 20 years and see if that gets anybody’s attention. In the case of the young women suborned into breaking the law, that should be just another charge to put on the main offender.

And finger prints on guns is a dumb idea......it doesn't work, and if you can program the first finger print, you can change it....criminals will simply change the recorded print....

Smart guns are a stupid idea....

We can send rovers to mars, but we can't make a safe, smart gun? Um... no.

Nope......here...why smart guns are stupid........

Smart Guns are Stupid Science | RealClearScience


The power has been out for two months. Word of mouth, around the FEMA depots, says it should be back soon. That's what they said last month too. Suddenly, in the wreckage of your home, you hear the footsteps of a band of looters. You reach for your gun, but it won't unlock because its battery died last week...

You fell asleep on the couch. A burglar kicks down your front door and jams a cold pistol muzzle to your forehead. You realize that the gun your wife is groping for in the dark bedroomwill only fire if it is within inches of the RFID watch. But the watch is on your arm...



The whole point of owning a gun is that you only need to use it in the most extreme situations (and you pray these never arise). You don't plug your gun into a USB port before going to bed, knowing that tonight is the night that you'll need it. You don't pop on your special RFID digital watch before slipping between the sheets. A gun needs to be ready for the only circumstances it is designed for: the unimaginably horrible ones.

A gun that is hamstrung by special technological conditions to fire is a liability to an owner who keeps it for protection from these terrifying moments. Science would say that smart guns are a stupid idea.

Murphy, author of the famous law, is unknown to history. It's a good bet that he was a scientist, or possibly an engineer. He stressed one of the most important things to understand as a practitioner of sound laboratory science -- and daily life -- is the minimization of extraneous variables. The fewer things that you need to happen perfectly right, the more likely your plan is to succeed.

Gun technology changes very little over time. This isn't due to lack of scientific progress or some conspiracy. Quite simply, a reliable tool should be as simple as it can possibly be. A cleaned, oiled, mechanically sound gun is extremely simple. It doesn't suffer from unnecessary complications that risk failure at a crucial instant.

A gun should not be like a high-tech complex scientific tool or tech toy. If your iPhone crashes or drops a call you can simply wait for it to reboot or call back. If the fancy lab microscope breaks, a technician can come and fix it, but you'll have to wait an hour or a day to use it.

When the moment comes to use your firearm, you need it to work perfectly with no delay or fiddling. There is zero margin for error. A more complex gun, reliant on batteries and chips and special mechanisms, is simply a gun that is more likely to let you down in the moment when your life hangs in the balance.

If we want to reduce accidental gun deaths, what should we do instead? The answer is training gun owners to strictly follow simple rules. In brief terms, there are two layers to this strategy.

When handling a firearm, it is imperative to operate by a few simple rules at all times. First, always assume a gun is loaded; never play with it, wave it around, or treat it as harmless. Second, never point the muzzle at a person unless you intend to kill them. Imagine that a laser pointer is taped to the barrel; anyone that the laser passes near is in the "kill path." Third, never place your finger on the trigger until you are pulling it; this way you can never fire unintentionally.

The second layer of gun responsibility applies when the firearm is not being handled. Obviously, put the safety on, and don't leave your gun in a place that is easy to find. Do not load it unless it is tucked away in that storage spot. If you fear a curious child, you can load a single dummy round into the chamber. This will prevent a child from discharging a live round, but only slow the owner a fraction of a second by requiring a single mechanical action without technological aids to clear that round and chamber a live one. Mechanical locks and safes can be used, but here again you are relying on complicated devices and tempting Murphy.

We have the technology to do it, don't give me a load of malarkey.

If you want a smart gun...go for it.....it is your life and death....

I won't use a smart/dumb gun.....too much to go wrong...

 

[Mudda]

So better laws family-member-wise are needed. As for stolen guns, a fingerprint scanner on the gun would do the trick, so only the actual owner could use it.

No.....we already have laws for giving or selling guns to felons....families included...and once again...the judicial system falls down......

America Should Be Prosecuting Straw Purchasers, Not Gun Dealers

Wisconsin isn’t alone in its nonchalance. California normally treats straw purchases as misdemeanors or minor infractions. Even as the people of Baltimore suffer horrific levels of violence, Maryland classifies the crime as a misdemeanor, too. Straw buying is a felony in progressive Connecticut, albeit one in the second-least-serious order of felonies. It is classified as a serious crime in Illinois (Class 2 felony), but police rarely (meaning “almost never”) go after the nephews and girlfriends with clean records who provide Chicago’s diverse and sundry gangsters with their weapons. In Delaware, it’s a Class F felony, like forging a check. In Oregon, it’s a misdemeanor.

--------

I visited Chicago a few years back to write about the city’s gang-driven murder problem, and a retired police official told me that the nature of the people making straw purchases — young relatives, girlfriends who may or may not have been facing the threat of physical violence, grandmothers, etc. — made prosecuting those cases unattractive. In most of those cases, the authorities emphatically should put the straw purchasers in prison for as long as possible. Throw a few gangsters’ grandmothers behind bars for 20 years and see if that gets anybody’s attention. In the case of the young women suborned into breaking the law, that should be just another charge to put on the main offender.

And finger prints on guns is a dumb idea......it doesn't work, and if you can program the first finger print, you can change it....criminals will simply change the recorded print....

Smart guns are a stupid idea....

We can send rovers to mars, but we can't make a safe, smart gun? Um... no.

Nope......here...why smart guns are stupid........

Smart Guns are Stupid Science | RealClearScience


The power has been out for two months. Word of mouth, around the FEMA depots, says it should be back soon. That's what they said last month too. Suddenly, in the wreckage of your home, you hear the footsteps of a band of looters. You reach for your gun, but it won't unlock because its battery died last week...

You fell asleep on the couch. A burglar kicks down your front door and jams a cold pistol muzzle to your forehead. You realize that the gun your wife is groping for in the dark bedroomwill only fire if it is within inches of the RFID watch. But the watch is on your arm...



The whole point of owning a gun is that you only need to use it in the most extreme situations (and you pray these never arise). You don't plug your gun into a USB port before going to bed, knowing that tonight is the night that you'll need it. You don't pop on your special RFID digital watch before slipping between the sheets. A gun needs to be ready for the only circumstances it is designed for: the unimaginably horrible ones.

A gun that is hamstrung by special technological conditions to fire is a liability to an owner who keeps it for protection from these terrifying moments. Science would say that smart guns are a stupid idea.

Murphy, author of the famous law, is unknown to history. It's a good bet that he was a scientist, or possibly an engineer. He stressed one of the most important things to understand as a practitioner of sound laboratory science -- and daily life -- is the minimization of extraneous variables. The fewer things that you need to happen perfectly right, the more likely your plan is to succeed.

Gun technology changes very little over time. This isn't due to lack of scientific progress or some conspiracy. Quite simply, a reliable tool should be as simple as it can possibly be. A cleaned, oiled, mechanically sound gun is extremely simple. It doesn't suffer from unnecessary complications that risk failure at a crucial instant.

A gun should not be like a high-tech complex scientific tool or tech toy. If your iPhone crashes or drops a call you can simply wait for it to reboot or call back. If the fancy lab microscope breaks, a technician can come and fix it, but you'll have to wait an hour or a day to use it.

When the moment comes to use your firearm, you need it to work perfectly with no delay or fiddling. There is zero margin for error. A more complex gun, reliant on batteries and chips and special mechanisms, is simply a gun that is more likely to let you down in the moment when your life hangs in the balance.

If we want to reduce accidental gun deaths, what should we do instead? The answer is training gun owners to strictly follow simple rules. In brief terms, there are two layers to this strategy.

When handling a firearm, it is imperative to operate by a few simple rules at all times. First, always assume a gun is loaded; never play with it, wave it around, or treat it as harmless. Second, never point the muzzle at a person unless you intend to kill them. Imagine that a laser pointer is taped to the barrel; anyone that the laser passes near is in the "kill path." Third, never place your finger on the trigger until you are pulling it; this way you can never fire unintentionally.

The second layer of gun responsibility applies when the firearm is not being handled. Obviously, put the safety on, and don't leave your gun in a place that is easy to find. Do not load it unless it is tucked away in that storage spot. If you fear a curious child, you can load a single dummy round into the chamber. This will prevent a child from discharging a live round, but only slow the owner a fraction of a second by requiring a single mechanical action without technological aids to clear that round and chamber a live one. Mechanical locks and safes can be used, but here again you are relying on complicated devices and tempting Murphy.

We have the technology to do it, don't give me a load of malarkey.

If you want a smart gun...go for it.....it is your life and death....

I won't use a smart/dumb gun.....too much to go wrong...

Eventually, it'll be the law, once they've been proven. Too bad for you.

 

[Divine Wind]

We can send rovers to mars, but we can't make a safe, smart gun? Um... no.

Are you saying a "smart gun" would have stopped LWL Hodgkinson?

 

[2aguy]

Yes......just ask the people of Mexico......the government only allows the rich and connected to own guns...the Mexican military owns the only gun store in the country.....and the Mexican military and police, working for the Mexican drug cartels, murder 10s of thousands of Mexican Citizens every year...right along our border....where Americans own more guns...but have less to worry about when it comes to murder....

Germany......disarmed their people in the 1920s....and the records used to register guns...those that remained...were used by the national socialists to disarm Jews and their political enemies....

As more Americans own guns and carry them...our crime rate has gone down, not up....as my link to you showed.....

guns are not the problem.....how we sentence repeat gun offenders is the actual problem.....since the average sentence for a repeat gun offender here in Chicago is less than 3 years...and then they get out, get another illegal gun, and commit murder.

The criminals get their guns from family members who can pass all of the current and future gun laws......they also get them by breaking into homes and cars...cars, because so many places are gun free zones, law abiding people have to keep their concealed carry guns in their cars when they go into various places......

The way Japan stopped most of the Yakuza, not all, and not during their gang wars.....from using guns....long prison sentences to the point they would be old men before they got out...where before they could use a gun, do several years, get out, and get a bump up for being seasoned criminals...now, the bosses tell the press that the long sentences are essentially a life sentence ....

So you don't know where criminals get their guns? I'll tell you, from legal gun manufacturers. The process by which they obtain them is what's the problem.

I just told you where they get them from...in detail......

Since you don't read my posts...here it is again...

The criminals get their guns from family members who can pass all of the current and future gun laws......they also get them by breaking into homes and cars...cars, because so many places are gun free zones, law abiding people have to keep their concealed carry guns in their cars when they go into various places......

So better laws family-member-wise are needed. As for stolen guns, a fingerprint scanner on the gun would do the trick, so only the actual owner could use it.

No.....we already have laws for giving or selling guns to felons....families included...and once again...the judicial system falls down......

America Should Be Prosecuting Straw Purchasers, Not Gun Dealers

Wisconsin isn’t alone in its nonchalance. California normally treats straw purchases as misdemeanors or minor infractions. Even as the people of Baltimore suffer horrific levels of violence, Maryland classifies the crime as a misdemeanor, too. Straw buying is a felony in progressive Connecticut, albeit one in the second-least-serious order of felonies. It is classified as a serious crime in Illinois (Class 2 felony), but police rarely (meaning “almost never”) go after the nephews and girlfriends with clean records who provide Chicago’s diverse and sundry gangsters with their weapons. In Delaware, it’s a Class F felony, like forging a check. In Oregon, it’s a misdemeanor.

--------

I visited Chicago a few years back to write about the city’s gang-driven murder problem, and a retired police official told me that the nature of the people making straw purchases — young relatives, girlfriends who may or may not have been facing the threat of physical violence, grandmothers, etc. — made prosecuting those cases unattractive. In most of those cases, the authorities emphatically should put the straw purchasers in prison for as long as possible. Throw a few gangsters’ grandmothers behind bars for 20 years and see if that gets anybody’s attention. In the case of the young women suborned into breaking the law, that should be just another charge to put on the main offender.

And finger prints on guns is a dumb idea......it doesn't work, and if you can program the first finger print, you can change it....criminals will simply change the recorded print....

Smart guns are a stupid idea....

We can send rovers to mars, but we can't make a safe, smart gun? Um... no.

No...too bad for freedom. But you guys don't believe in freedom.

 

[Mudda]

We can send rovers to mars, but we can't make a safe, smart gun? Um... no.

Are you saying a "smart gun" would have stopped LWL Hodgkinson?

I'm saying that a smartgun would be a major step forward.

 

[iceberg]

And here I thought he had an AR.

Boy I sure wish I would have gotten those Chinese SKSs when they were going for $115 and my friend was trying to talk me into it. I was like "oh screw those Chinese things, I got my guns" Doh!

ARs are more accurate. though.

maybe. but you'll spend an evening cleaning one when done vs. an AK. i also can drag an AK around in the muck and count on it. not so much with an AR. both are great guns for their intended purpose and design, it's just preference after that.

i don't like all the parts you have to know how to use and clean in an AR so i got my AK and am done with it.

No maybe about it. I can't say about a Kalashnikov, but with an SKS after 5-6 shots the pattern opens up to double or more what is was with cold barrel.

in the end i'd never say the AK was a better rifle than the AR - i just prefer it for as little as i actually use either.

"Better" is a relative term. You already mentioned one area where the AK is "better" than the AR: reliability in the field. Yes, the AR is more accurate and has a slightly longer effective range, but at 200 yards, does it really matter if you shoot someone with tighter groups?

AR vs. AK: Can't We All Just Get Along? - The Truth About Guns

depends on who you ask. i think the AR is a more technical gun and "technically" better, but again it's preference.

 

[Marion Morrison]

We can send rovers to mars, but we can't make a safe, smart gun? Um... no.

Are you saying a "smart gun" would have stopped LWL Hodgkinson?

I'm saying that a smartgun would be a major step forward.

No, let's not cvnt guns up k? Thx.

 

[2aguy]

We can send rovers to mars, but we can't make a safe, smart gun? Um... no.

Are you saying a "smart gun" would have stopped LWL Hodgkinson?

I'm saying that a smartgun would be a major step forward.

No...it actually wouldn't. You saw many of the reasons it would be dumb.......

 

[Mudda]

We can send rovers to mars, but we can't make a safe, smart gun? Um... no.

Are you saying a "smart gun" would have stopped LWL Hodgkinson?

I'm saying that a smartgun would be a major step forward.

No...it actually wouldn't. You saw many of the reasons it would be dumb.......

No, it could work fine, you could arm it before you go to bed and it stays armed 8 hours or whatever.

 

[2aguy]

We can send rovers to mars, but we can't make a safe, smart gun? Um... no.

Are you saying a "smart gun" would have stopped LWL Hodgkinson?

I'm saying that a smartgun would be a major step forward.

No...it actually wouldn't. You saw many of the reasons it would be dumb.......

No, it could work fine, you could arm it before you go to bed and it stays armed 8 hours or whatever.

Now you are just trolling...or should I say, continuing to troll....

 

[Mudda]

We can send rovers to mars, but we can't make a safe, smart gun? Um... no.

Are you saying a "smart gun" would have stopped LWL Hodgkinson?

I'm saying that a smartgun would be a major step forward.

No...it actually wouldn't. You saw many of the reasons it would be dumb.......

No, it could work fine, you could arm it before you go to bed and it stays armed 8 hours or whatever.

Now you are just trolling...or should I say, continuing to troll....

It's the future, brah. The police will disable your guns before they even show up.

 

[Divine Wind]

And here I thought he had an AR.

Boy I sure wish I would have gotten those Chinese SKSs when they were going for $115 and my friend was trying to talk me into it. I was like "oh screw those Chinese things, I got my guns" Doh!

ARs are more accurate. though.

maybe. but you'll spend an evening cleaning one when done vs. an AK. i also can drag an AK around in the muck and count on it. not so much with an AR. both are great guns for their intended purpose and design, it's just preference after that.

i don't like all the parts you have to know how to use and clean in an AR so i got my AK and am done with it.

No maybe about it. I can't say about a Kalashnikov, but with an SKS after 5-6 shots the pattern opens up to double or more what is was with cold barrel.

in the end i'd never say the AK was a better rifle than the AR - i just prefer it for as little as i actually use either.

"Better" is a relative term. You already mentioned one area where the AK is "better" than the AR: reliability in the field. Yes, the AR is more accurate and has a slightly longer effective range, but at 200 yards, does it really matter if you shoot someone with tighter groups?

AR vs. AK: Can't We All Just Get Along? - The Truth About Guns

depends on who you ask. i think the AR is a more technical gun and "technically" better, but again it's preference.

It's more precise and more accurate at a longer range. The lighter bullet allows troops to carry more ammo.

Still, I like my AK for the several reasons, one being reliability. Two is a heavier punch bullet which is why in some places it's illegal to hunt deer with a 5.56mm but okay with a 7.62x39mm. Three is lower cost for ammo. Most of mine is soft point or JHP.

 

[Divine Wind]

Are you saying a "smart gun" would have stopped LWL Hodgkinson?

I'm saying that a smartgun would be a major step forward.

No...it actually wouldn't. You saw many of the reasons it would be dumb.......

No, it could work fine, you could arm it before you go to bed and it stays armed 8 hours or whatever.

Now you are just trolling...or should I say, continuing to troll....

It's the future, brah. The police will disable your guns before they even show up.

The Socialist wet dream: Suuuure, you can have your guns....you just can never use them.

 

[Mudda]

I'm saying that a smartgun would be a major step forward.

No...it actually wouldn't. You saw many of the reasons it would be dumb.......

No, it could work fine, you could arm it before you go to bed and it stays armed 8 hours or whatever.

Now you are just trolling...or should I say, continuing to troll....

It's the future, brah. The police will disable your guns before they even show up.

The Socialist wet dream: Suuuure, you can have your guns....you just can never use them.

With the NSA and all the rest of the alphabet soup cop groups, we're headed in that direction. It's the future.