The Green New Deal and the Elephant in the Room

[forkup]

nobody who is a scientist actually challenging the fact that the US is by far the biggest emitter of CO2 by capita

That which you fail to perceive is that the "per capita" is the actual strawman.

I have yet to hear anyone propose that carbon's country of origin is a factor in climate change. So, If the US produces 15% of overall global carbon, and if China, India, and the EU reduce theirs to zero, we have an overall 85% reduction in global carbon levels even if we in the US do nothing.

Surely an 85% reduction would be enough to save your precious planet. Wouldn't it?

Ah so your argument would be. Hey if everybody else does it for us we are of the hook? You don't think that being the biggest contributor to carbon emissions is a factor in overall carbon emissions? It's kind of like saying that Jordan was not a factor in the Bulls winning championships.
Anyways, lets look past the obvious cynical nature of your remarks. To be able to live in the world at large the US needs friends and allies. Just sticking up a big middle finger to everybody like has been happening the last 2 years is not conducive to this.

 

[fncceo]

nobody has made the claim that the atmosphere can tell from what country the carbon comes

Then total percentage is really the only thing that matters. What country produces the country is a non-factor ... except to those with a political agenda.

it is a non-factor because nobody but people like you make it an issue. it is your strawman of the day

I didn't bring up the notion of per capita production of Carbon. I maintain per capita isn't and issue to the science. It only matters if Climate Change has a political agenda.

 

[fncceo]

You don't think that being the biggest contributor to carbon emissions is a factor in overall carbon emissions?

But, as a country, we aren't the biggest overall producer of Carbon. Not even close.

If the other countries feel strongly about it, they are free to adjust their economies accordingly.

 

[fncceo]

To be able to live in the world at large the US needs friends and allies.

Really? When was the last time England sailed over here to save us from destruction?

 

[forkup]

To be able to live in the world at large the US needs friends and allies.

Really? When was the last time England sailed over here to save us from destruction?

You think war is the only reason why a country needs allies?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

nobody has made the claim that the atmosphere can tell from what country the carbon comes

Then total percentage is really the only thing that matters. What country produces the country is a non-factor ... except to those with a political agenda.

it is a non-factor because nobody but people like you make it an issue. it is your strawman of the day

I didn't bring up the notion of per capita production of Carbon. I maintain per capita isn't and issue to the science. It only matters if Climate Change has a political agenda.

it is not an issue to the science, but if you wish to reduce the production of it, then going after those producing the most per capita would be the most efficient method.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

To be able to live in the world at large the US needs friends and allies.

Really? When was the last time England sailed over here to save us from destruction?

You think war is the only reason why a country needs allies?

probably. Deep thinking is not a fine art around here.

 

[fncceo]

nobody has made the claim that the atmosphere can tell from what country the carbon comes

Then total percentage is really the only thing that matters. What country produces the country is a non-factor ... except to those with a political agenda.

it is a non-factor because nobody but people like you make it an issue. it is your strawman of the day

I didn't bring up the notion of per capita production of Carbon. I maintain per capita isn't and issue to the science. It only matters if Climate Change has a political agenda.

it is not an issue to the science, but if you wish to reduce the production of it, then going after those producing the most per capita would be the most efficient method.

I disagree ... if you're only concerned with the overall production, surely the largest producer overall is he the one that has the responsibility to change.

 

[fncceo]

To be able to live in the world at large the US needs friends and allies.

Really? When was the last time England sailed over here to save us from destruction?

You think war is the only reason why a country needs allies?

Friendships are based on mutual regard. Alliances are based on mutual need.

A lot of countries need to be allied with the US (economically, politically, and, militarily). No one 'needs' to be a friend.

If another country doesn't want to be our 'friend' because of the kind of cars we drive, I say 'who needs such a superficial friend?".

 

[forkup]

To be able to live in the world at large the US needs friends and allies.

Really? When was the last time England sailed over here to save us from destruction?

You think war is the only reason why a country needs allies?

You need allies if you want to trade. You need allies so you can exchange information on terrorism, etc. The reason America is the only superpower is exactly because they have had strong alliances with the world as a whole. Oh and if you considering the US entering WW2 as some magnanimous act.... don't. It is highly unlikely the US would have entered at all if the Japanese wouldn't have attacked. And stopping Hitler was as much in their self interest as it was in the interest of the allies.

 

[forkup]

To be able to live in the world at large the US needs friends and allies.

Really? When was the last time England sailed over here to save us from destruction?

You think war is the only reason why a country needs allies?

Friendships are based on mutual regard. Alliances are based on mutual need.

A lot of countries need to be allied with the US (economically, politically, and, militarily). No one 'needs' to be a friend.

If another country doesn't want to be our 'friend' because of the kind of cars we drive, I say 'who needs such a superficial friend?".

Trump is doing his utmost to change that equation. Europe needs reliable partners. The US isn't under Trump. Canada needs reliable partners. The US isn't. N-Zealand needs an American president who doesn't embolden white nationalists to change Mosques in free fire zones. If they can't fill those needs with the US they might just look to other countries willing to fill that void.

 

[fncceo]

To be able to live in the world at large the US needs friends and allies.

Really? When was the last time England sailed over here to save us from destruction?

You think war is the only reason why a country needs allies?

Friendships are based on mutual regard. Alliances are based on mutual need.

A lot of countries need to be allied with the US (economically, politically, and, militarily). No one 'needs' to be a friend.

If another country doesn't want to be our 'friend' because of the kind of cars we drive, I say 'who needs such a superficial friend?".

Trump is doing his utmost to change that equation. Europe needs reliable partners. The US isn't under Trump. Canada needs reliable partners. The US isn't. N-Zealand needs an American president who doesn't embolden white nationalist to change Mosques in free fire zones. If they can't fill those needs with the US they might just look to other countries willing to fill that void.

So, as I suspected, this isn't about Climate Change at all. It's about the perpetuation of a political agenda.

 

[forkup]

To be able to live in the world at large the US needs friends and allies.

Really? When was the last time England sailed over here to save us from destruction?

You think war is the only reason why a country needs allies?

Friendships are based on mutual regard. Alliances are based on mutual need.

A lot of countries need to be allied with the US (economically, politically, and, militarily). No one 'needs' to be a friend.

If another country doesn't want to be our 'friend' because of the kind of cars we drive, I say 'who needs such a superficial friend?".

Trump is doing his utmost to change that equation. Europe needs reliable partners. The US isn't under Trump. Canada needs reliable partners. The US isn't. N-Zealand needs an American president who doesn't embolden white nationalist to change Mosques in free fire zones. If they can't fill those needs with the US they might just look to other countries willing to fill that void.

So, as I suspected, this isn't about Climate Change at all. It's about the perpetuation of a political agenda.

How does me rebuffing your," the world needs the US as allies argument" lead you to conclude climate change isn't an issue? You have asked me questions and I have answered them pretty much point by point. If you don't want an argument discussed don't make them. Don't equate me going of topic because you going of topic as anything but precisely that. It's something people call intellectual dishonesty. It's not nice.

 

[Hale]

Ah so your argument would be. Hey if everybody else does it for us we are of the hook? You don't think that being the biggest contributor to carbon emissions is a factor in overall carbon emissions?

We are not the largest contributor, the USA accounts for only 15% worldwide.

it is not an issue to the science, but if you wish to reduce the production of it, then going after those producing the most per capita would be the most efficient method.

Not at all, in fact quite the reverse. One would go after the largest contributors for the maximum effect. "Per capita" is not an issue in the slightest.

 

[forkup]

Ah so your argument would be. Hey if everybody else does it for us we are of the hook? You don't think that being the biggest contributor to carbon emissions is a factor in overall carbon emissions?

We are not the largest contributor, the USA accounts for only 15% worldwide.

it is not an issue to the science, but if you wish to reduce the production of it, then going after those producing the most per capita would be the most efficient method.

Not at all, in fact quite the reverse. One would go after the largest contributors for the maximum effect. "Per capita" is not an issue in the slightest.

As I said before 4.1 percent of the global population producing 15 percent of CO2 is no laughing matter. And unlike the US who is number 2 worldwide, number one is taking pains to reduce their emissions.

 

[fncceo]

How does me rebuffing your," the world needs the US as allies argument" lead you to conclude climate change isn't an issue?

I didn't say it wasn't an issue ... I merely say that to you, and most people, it's a political issue, as opposed to a scientific one.

Trying to support your politics with 'science' was very popular in the '30s... but has fell out of favor since it has become apparent just how easy it is to abuse.

 

[fncceo]

... the US who is number 2 worldwide, number one is taking pains to reduce their emissions.

Are you claiming that the US uses no renewable or not Carbon emitting energy production?

 

[fncceo]

As I said before 4.1 percent of the global population producing 15 percent of CO2 is no laughing matter.

To the science of Global Warming .. it isn't an issue at all. Laughing or otherwise.

 

[forkup]

How does me rebuffing your," the world needs the US as allies argument" lead you to conclude climate change isn't an issue?

I didn't say it wasn't an issue ... I merely say that to you, and most people, it's a political issue, as opposed to a scientific one.

Trying to support your politics with 'science' was very popular in the '30s... but has fell out of favor since it has become apparent just how easy it is to abuse.

Firstly, you still haven't gotten any closer to establishing that because I'm capable of discussing both Climate change and foreign policy. That I don't care about climate change. Are you limited to one issue in your discussions? This OP says otherwise.
Secondly, I would be very careful in trying to tie racism to me. I'm not the one who supports a president who is stated as an inspiration to a guy who commits mass murder.

 

[Hale]

For those baffled by the "per capita" issue, here's the facts according to a warmist site. Per capita is absolutely irrelevant.