The Gospel of Unbelief

[LOki]

To dis-believe in something that has no evidence to support its existence would be to reach a logical conclusion, IMO.

Are you asserting that your logical conclusions are logical proofs?

If so, demonstrate logically how lack of evidence of existence is proof of non-existence.

Faith doesn't play in it at all. It doesn't take faith to not believe in Santa Claus, it doesn't take faith to not believe in god.

HAHAHAHA! Grand! Don't bother proving God doesn't exist--prove that Santa Claus doesn't exist. This should be easy for you.

But I'll require evidence, or logical proof.

LOLsome!

 

[LOki]

On the contrary, it's Christians, particularly those who want to have more government sponsored Christian indoctrination who claim atheism is a religion so they can whine about non-religious teachings of science, math, etc.

You are just full of not knowing the meanings of words.

Accepting rightly that Atheism is a religion would only prevent science, math, etc. teachers in a public school from teaching the Atheist doctrine that there is no God. End of story. That's what separation of church and state is all about--secular government protecting Christian children from being indoctrinated for 13 years of their lives with the baseless (in proof or evidence) assertion--"THERE IS NO GOD."

 

[MissileMan]

You are just full of not knowing the meanings of words.

Accepting rightly that Atheism is a religion would only prevent science, math, etc. teachers in a public school from teaching the Atheist doctrine that there is no God. End of story. That's what separation of church and state is all about--secular government protecting Christian children from being indoctrinated for 13 years of their lives with the baseless (in proof or evidence) assertion--"THERE IS NO GOD."

I'm not among the myriad of people who confuse secular (non-religious) and atheistic. The whining I referred to comes from those who wrongly equate the two terms.

Thus far, I've kept things civil...let me know if you'd like to engage in a flame contest, I'll accomodate you.

 

[Dr Grump]

Athiesm is about as much a religion as santa claus is the second coming

 

[Nuc]

You are just full of not knowing the meanings of words.

Accepting rightly that Atheism is a religion would only prevent science, math, etc. teachers in a public school from teaching the Atheist doctrine that there is no God. End of story. That's what separation of church and state is all about--secular government protecting Christian children from being indoctrinated for 13 years of their lives with the baseless (in proof or evidence) assertion--"THERE IS NO GOD."

I don't know.....I went to public school for 12 years and never was taught "THERE IS NO GOD". Either the teachers made casual references to God which indicated that they believed in it, or they didn't say anything. I don't think atheism is being taught in public schools, usually.

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

To dis-believe in something that has no evidence to support its existence would be to reach a logical conclusion, IMO. Faith doesn't play in it at all. It doesn't take faith to not believe in Santa Claus, it doesn't take faith to not believe in god.

So Christianity is a logical conclusion?
I'll post this again...

"a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and
practices."

"a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith"

I find both of these definitions for religion perfectly acceptable on both ends.
I also do not see why it matters to christians if Atheism is a religion or not.

Now, considering this definition of faith
"Something that is believed especially with strong conviction"
I think Atheism is a religion.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

You are just full of not knowing the meanings of words.

Accepting rightly that Atheism is a religion would only prevent science, math, etc. teachers in a public school from teaching the Atheist doctrine that there is no God. End of story. That's what separation of church and state is all about--secular government protecting Christian children from being indoctrinated for 13 years of their lives with the baseless (in proof or evidence) assertion--"THERE IS NO GOD."

Oke doke Loki, I'm gonna take a stab here. If you think Atheism is a religion, then why can't we also define Secularism as a religion?

Definitions:

religion: A personal set of formalized attitudes, beliefs, and practices based on a statement of faith.

faith: Firm belief in something for which there is no proof.

secularism: (per Webster)
1. worldly spirit, views, or the like: esp., a system of doctrines and practices that disregards or rejects any form of religious faith and worship
2. the belief that religion and ecclesiastical affairs should not enter into the functions of the state, esp. into public education.

Line if reasoning:
Secularism is a doctrine based on worldly spirit or views, and rejects - without any proof - that God does not exist within that worldly spirit or views.
You have faith, or a firm belief, in secularism - which has no basis of proof.
Therefore secularism is a form of religion.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Good Lord. Can we just agree to disagree and be done with this?

 

[Dr Grump]

Now, considering this definition of faith
"Something that is believed especially with strong conviction"
I think Atheism is a religion.

All religions have some sort of tenets and rules. Other than a belief in no god, what are atheisms rules and regulations? Its houses of worship? Its diety. Calling athiesm a religion is stretching it IMO. I'm a non-believer, but if athiesm is a religion I'm not a follower...

 

[Nuc]

Now, considering this definition of faith
"Something that is believed especially with strong conviction"
I think Atheism is a religion.

I have a strong conviction that tea is better than coffee. Is that religious doctrine? This reasoning is ridiculous. Atheism is not a religion, it is a rejection of the foundations of most religions. Not necessarily everything, but the basis, which is that there are supernatural beings running the show in the universe.

 

[LOki]

I'm not among the myriad of people who confuse secular (non-religious) and atheistic. The whining I referred to comes from those who wrongly equate the two terms.

If the religious (theistic and otherwise) would just get their terminology right, and excersize some restraint in their logical fallacies, and try a measure of intellectual consistency and integrity, we wouldn't have those with faith-based belief sysems insisting they were exempt from the 1st Amendment.

Thus far, I've kept things civil...let me know if you'd like to engage in a flame contest, I'll accomodate you.

I never aquired a set of litte pink booties. Perhaps you can lend me yours, that I might learn to tremble at such formidable :wank: incivility.

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

All religions have some sort of tenets and rules. Other than a belief in no god, what are atheisms rules and regulations? Its houses of worship? Its diety. Calling athiesm a religion is stretching it IMO. I'm a non-believer, but if athiesm is a religion I'm not a follower...

Is this some unwritten rule?
Where are these guidelines for religion?

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

I have a strong conviction that tea is better than coffee. Is that religious doctrine? This reasoning is ridiculous. QUOTE]
I guess that depends on what religion you follow.

 

[Dr Grump]

Is this some unwritten rule?
Where are these guidelines for religion?

What I meant by guidelines are the holy books, traditions etc. Christianity has the new and old testaments, Christmas, Easter; Judism has the torah channukah etc; Islam the Koran ramadan; Hinduism the vedas (sp?) etc...

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

What I meant by guidelines are the holy books, traditions etc. Christianity has the new and old testaments, Christmas, Easter; Judism has the torah channukah etc; Islam the Koran ramadan; Hinduism the vedas (sp?) etc...

All of which, have never been proven to be factual.

 

[Dr Grump]

All of which, have never been proven to be factual.

Absolutely. Not the point. My initial point was that all religions have tenets and rules. Athiesm doesn't. Whether those tenets etc are true or not is another story.........

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

Absolutely. Not the point. My initial point was that all religions have tenets and rules. Athiesm doesn't. Whether those tenets etc are true or not is another story.........

Religion can also be defined as an idea.
Ideas do not require rules.

 

[Dr Grump]

Religion can also be defined as an idea.
Ideas do not require rules.

True. But most religions do. In fact, you want to name a major religion that doesn't? Even a minor one (outsida athiesm if you are a 'believer")... :dev1:

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Religion can also be defined as an idea.
Ideas do not require rules.

Religion as an idea? What the hell does that mean?

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

Religion as an idea? What the hell does that mean?

As in we have no actual proof that this stuff is true, so we'll call it an idea.

I'm just quoting a defenition