The GOP's imaginary Europe.

Sallow

The Big Bad Wolf.
Oct 4, 2010
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Krugman explains the melt down in this opinion piece.

But then, American conservatives have long had their own private Europe of the imagination -- a place of economic stagnation and terrible health care, a collapsing society groaning under the weight of Big Government. The fact that Europe isn't actually like that -- did you know that adults in their prime working years are more likely to be employed in Europe than they are in the United States? -- hasn't deterred them. So we shouldn't be surprised by similar tall tales about European debt problems.

Let's talk about what really happened in Ireland and Britain.

On the eve of the financial crisis, conservatives had nothing but praise for Ireland, a low-tax, low-spending country by European standards. The Heritage Foundation's Index of Economic Freedom ranked it above every other Western nation.

In 2006, George Osborne, now Britain's chancellor of the Exchequer, declared Ireland "a shining example of the art of the possible in long-term economic policy making." And the truth was that in 2006-07 Ireland was running a budget surplus, and had one of the lowest debt levels in the advanced world.

So what went wrong? The answer is: out-of-control banks; Irish banks ran wild during the good years, creating a huge property bubble. When the bubble burst, revenue collapsed, causing the deficit to surge, while public debt exploded because the government ended up taking over bank debts. And harsh spending cuts, while they have led to huge job losses, have failed to restore confidence.

The lesson of the Irish debacle, then, is very nearly the opposite of what Mr. Ryan would have us believe. It doesn't say "cut spending now, or bad things will happen"; it says that balanced budgets won't protect you from crisis if you don't effectively regulate your banks -- a point made in the newly released report of the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission, which concludes that "30 years of deregulation and reliance on self-regulation" helped create our own catastrophe. Have I mentioned that Republicans are doing everything they can to undermine financial reform?

What about Britain? Well, contrary to what Mr. Ryan seemed to imply, Britain has not, in fact, suffered a debt crisis.

True, David Cameron, who became prime minister last May, has made a sharp turn toward fiscal austerity. But that was a choice, not a response to market pressure. And underlying that choice was the new British government's adherence to the same theory offered by Republicans to justify their demand for immediate spending cuts here -- the claim that slashing government spending in the face of a depressed economy will actually help growth rather than hurt it.

So how's that theory looking? Not good. The British economy, which seemed to be recovering earlier in 2010, turned down again in the fourth quarter. Yes, weather was a factor, and, no, you shouldn't read too much into one quarter's numbers. But there's certainly no sign of the surging private-sector confidence that was supposed to offset the direct effects of eliminating half-a-million government jobs. And, as a result, there's no comfort in the British experience for Republican claims that the United States needs spending cuts in the face of mass unemployment.

Read more: Paul Krugman / The GOP's imaginary Europe
Paul Krugman / The GOP's imaginary Europe

He misses a bit on Greece:
Wall Street tactics akin to the ones that fostered subprime mortgages in America have worsened the financial crisis shaking Greece and undermining the euro by enabling European governments to hide their mounting debts.

Gary D. Cohn, president of Goldman Sachs, went to Athens to pitch complex products to defer debt. Such deals let Greece continue deficit spending, like a consumer with a second mortgage.

As worries over Greece rattle world markets, records and interviews show that with Wall Street’s help, the nation engaged in a decade-long effort to skirt European debt limits. One deal created by Goldman Sachs helped obscure billions in debt from the budget overseers in Brussels.

Even as the crisis was nearing the flashpoint, banks were searching for ways to help Greece forestall the day of reckoning. In early November — three months before Athens became the epicenter of global financial anxiety — a team from Goldman Sachs arrived in the ancient city with a very modern proposition for a government struggling to pay its bills, according to two people who were briefed on the meeting.

The bankers, led by Goldman’s president, Gary D. Cohn, held out a financing instrument that would have pushed debt from Greece’s health care system far into the future, much as when strapped homeowners take out second mortgages to pay off their credit cards.

It had worked before. In 2001, just after Greece was admitted to Europe’s monetary union, Goldman helped the government quietly borrow billions, people familiar with the transaction said. That deal, hidden from public view because it was treated as a currency trade rather than a loan, helped Athens to meet Europe’s deficit rules while continuing to spend beyond its means.

Athens did not pursue the latest Goldman proposal, but with Greece groaning under the weight of its debts and with its richer neighbors vowing to come to its aid, the deals over the last decade are raising questions about Wall Street’s role in the world’s latest financial drama.

As in the American subprime crisis and the implosion of the American International Group, financial derivatives played a role in the run-up of Greek debt. Instruments developed by Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase and a wide range of other banks enabled politicians to mask additional borrowing in Greece, Italy and possibly elsewhere.

In dozens of deals across the Continent, banks provided cash upfront in return for government payments in the future, with those liabilities then left off the books. Greece, for example, traded away the rights to airport fees and lottery proceeds in years to come.

Critics say that such deals, because they are not recorded as loans, mislead investors and regulators about the depth of a country’s liabilities.

Some of the Greek deals were named after figures in Greek mythology. One of them, for instance, was called Aeolos, after the god of the winds.

The crisis in Greece poses the most significant challenge yet to Europe’s common currency, the euro, and the Continent’s goal of economic unity. The country is, in the argot of banking, too big to be allowed to fail. Greece owes the world $300 billion, and major banks are on the hook for much of that debt. A default would reverberate around the globe.

A spokeswoman for the Greek finance ministry said the government had met with many banks in recent months and had not committed to any bank’s offers. All debt financings “are conducted in an effort of transparency,” she said. Goldman and JPMorgan declined to comment.

While Wall Street’s handiwork in Europe has received little attention on this side of the Atlantic, it has been sharply criticized in Greece and in magazines like Der Spiegel in Germany.

“Politicians want to pass the ball forward, and if a banker can show them a way to pass a problem to the future, they will fall for it,” said Gikas A. Hardouvelis, an economist and former government official who helped write a recent report on Greece’s accounting policies.

Wall Street did not create Europe’s debt problem. But bankers enabled Greece and others to borrow beyond their means, in deals that were perfectly legal. Few rules govern how nations can borrow the money they need for expenses like the military and health care. The market for sovereign debt — the Wall Street term for loans to governments — is as unfettered as it is vast.

“If a government wants to cheat, it can cheat,” said Garry Schinasi, a veteran of the International Monetary Fund’s capital markets surveillance unit, which monitors vulnerability in global capital markets.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/business/global/14debt.html?pagewanted=all
 
I'm 100% convinced the GOPtards that talk about "socialist" Europe know nothing about Europe. I come there every year and go to Paris and then to Belgium and Luxemborg and none of these countries are socialist regimes mired in debt.
 
I'm 100% convinced the GOPtards that talk about "socialist" Europe know nothing about Europe. I come there every year and go to Paris and then to Belgium and Luxemborg and none of these countries are socialist regimes mired in debt.

Well yeah.

That's a GOP fantasy.
 
Seriously? Krugman? Doesn't he have an ambulance to chase ? ......
 
I'm 100% convinced the GOPtards that talk about "socialist" Europe know nothing about Europe. I come there every year and go to Paris and then to Belgium and Luxemborg and none of these countries are socialist regimes mired in debt.

Bass...WTF are you talking about? :cuckoo:

France’s public debt has risen to close to 83 percent of the country’s GDP, France's statistics body says, one day after the government announced cuts in spending to reign in overspending.
France's public debt hits new high | RFI

BRUSSELS—Belgium's borrowing costs are rising as high levels of public debt, the continuing political crisis and bailouts for euro-zone peers make investors nervous.

Belgian public debt will reach 100.2% of gross domestic product this year, according to the International Monetary Fund, the third highest level in the common-currency bloc after Greece and Italy.
Euro-Zone Crisis: Belgium's Debt Prompts Concerns - WSJ.com
 
I'm 100% convinced the GOPtards that talk about "socialist" Europe know nothing about Europe. I come there every year and go to Paris and then to Belgium and Luxemborg and none of these countries are socialist regimes mired in debt.

Population of Luxemborg: 497,854 - 2009
It is 84 kilometers, 51.7 miles long and 52 kilometers, or 32 miles wide

Thats like the population of Milwaukee, Wi.

:lol: Let's keep it real, Bass
 
I'm 100% convinced the GOPtards that talk about "socialist" Europe know nothing about Europe. I come there every year and go to Paris and then to Belgium and Luxemborg and none of these countries are socialist regimes mired in debt.

Bass...WTF are you talking about? :cuckoo:

France’s public debt has risen to close to 83 percent of the country’s GDP, France's statistics body says, one day after the government announced cuts in spending to reign in overspending.
France's public debt hits new high | RFI

BRUSSELS—Belgium's borrowing costs are rising as high levels of public debt, the continuing political crisis and bailouts for euro-zone peers make investors nervous.

Belgian public debt will reach 100.2% of gross domestic product this year, according to the International Monetary Fund, the third highest level in the common-currency bloc after Greece and Italy.
Euro-Zone Crisis: Belgium's Debt Prompts Concerns - WSJ.com

Have you actually traveled to those countries, Meister? Until you have, you don't know what you're talking about. Bass has actually been physically present within their borders, so he/she/it knows everything there is to know about those countries. :eusa_shhh:
 
I'm 100% convinced the GOPtards that talk about "socialist" Europe know nothing about Europe. I come there every year and go to Paris and then to Belgium and Luxemborg and none of these countries are socialist regimes mired in debt.

Bass...WTF are you talking about? :cuckoo:

France’s public debt has risen to close to 83 percent of the country’s GDP, France's statistics body says, one day after the government announced cuts in spending to reign in overspending.
France's public debt hits new high | RFI

BRUSSELS—Belgium's borrowing costs are rising as high levels of public debt, the continuing political crisis and bailouts for euro-zone peers make investors nervous.

Belgian public debt will reach 100.2% of gross domestic product this year, according to the International Monetary Fund, the third highest level in the common-currency bloc after Greece and Italy.
Euro-Zone Crisis: Belgium's Debt Prompts Concerns - WSJ.com

Have you actually traveled to those countries, Meister? Until you have, you don't know what you're talking about. Bass has actually been physically present within their borders, so he/she/it knows everything there is to know about those countries. :eusa_shhh:

I know, I know...my bad
 
Seriously? Krugman? Doesn't he have an ambulance to chase ? ......

Why would a chase an ambulance?


Tapping his feet, waiting for the next tragedy so he can be the first to blame it on right wing rhetoric without a shred of fact or evidence. The last one only took him two hours, he's going for 90 minutes next time......
 
I'm 100% convinced the GOPtards that talk about "socialist" Europe know nothing about Europe. I come there every year and go to Paris and then to Belgium and Luxemborg and none of these countries are socialist regimes mired in debt.

Bass...WTF are you talking about? :cuckoo:

France’s public debt has risen to close to 83 percent of the country’s GDP, France's statistics body says, one day after the government announced cuts in spending to reign in overspending.
France's public debt hits new high | RFI

BRUSSELS—Belgium's borrowing costs are rising as high levels of public debt, the continuing political crisis and bailouts for euro-zone peers make investors nervous.

Belgian public debt will reach 100.2% of gross domestic product this year, according to the International Monetary Fund, the third highest level in the common-currency bloc after Greece and Italy.
Euro-Zone Crisis: Belgium's Debt Prompts Concerns - WSJ.com

Time to update yourself about France..

Strong Demand

In 2010, France issued 40 billion euros of debt with maturities between 15 years and 50 years, about 21 percent of total issuance, compared with 18 percent in 2009 and 10 percent in 2008.

“Since the spring of 2009, we have seen strong demand for our long and ultra-long bonds,” Mills said. “We’ll study the opportunity to introduce a new long bond, probably at the end of 2011.”

France bought back 22.7 billion euros of debt last year, including 18.2 billion euros of debt maturing in 2011 and 4.5 billion euros of debt maturing in 2012.

The French budget deficit is forecast to be 91.6 billion euros next year, equivalent to about 6 percent of gross domestic product, down from 149.7 billion euros, or 7.5 percent of GDP, in 2010.

France Trims 2011 Debt Sale Plan, Maturity Lengthens - Businessweek
 
Seriously? Krugman? Doesn't he have an ambulance to chase ? ......

Why would a chase an ambulance?


Tapping his feet, waiting for the next tragedy so he can be the first to blame it on right wing rhetoric without a shred of fact or evidence. The last one only took him two hours, he's going for 90 minutes next time......

Well..

If the reality of the situation is a "shred of evidence" then you could be right.

But of course..you're not.

The economic meltdown was very real.
 
I'm 100% convinced the GOPtards that talk about "socialist" Europe know nothing about Europe. I come there every year and go to Paris and then to Belgium and Luxemborg and none of these countries are socialist regimes mired in debt.

Bass...WTF are you talking about? :cuckoo:

France’s public debt has risen to close to 83 percent of the country’s GDP, France's statistics body says, one day after the government announced cuts in spending to reign in overspending.
France's public debt hits new high | RFI

BRUSSELS—Belgium's borrowing costs are rising as high levels of public debt, the continuing political crisis and bailouts for euro-zone peers make investors nervous.

Belgian public debt will reach 100.2% of gross domestic product this year, according to the International Monetary Fund, the third highest level in the common-currency bloc after Greece and Italy.
Euro-Zone Crisis: Belgium's Debt Prompts Concerns - WSJ.com

Have you actually traveled to those countries, Meister? Until you have, you don't know what you're talking about. Bass has actually been physically present within their borders, so he/she/it knows everything there is to know about those countries. :eusa_shhh:

Too funny. I'd wager either Bass didn't know France's public debt is at 83% of GDP and Belgium's at 100.2%, or did know but has no clue what to make of it. Ah, but still nice places to visit. Ignorance really is bliss.
 
I'm 100% convinced the GOPtards that talk about "socialist" Europe know nothing about Europe. I come there every year and go to Paris and then to Belgium and Luxemborg and none of these countries are socialist regimes mired in debt.

Bass...WTF are you talking about? :cuckoo:

France’s public debt has risen to close to 83 percent of the country’s GDP, France's statistics body says, one day after the government announced cuts in spending to reign in overspending.
France's public debt hits new high | RFI

BRUSSELS—Belgium's borrowing costs are rising as high levels of public debt, the continuing political crisis and bailouts for euro-zone peers make investors nervous.

Belgian public debt will reach 100.2% of gross domestic product this year, according to the International Monetary Fund, the third highest level in the common-currency bloc after Greece and Italy.
Euro-Zone Crisis: Belgium's Debt Prompts Concerns - WSJ.com

Time to update yourself about France..

Strong Demand

In 2010, France issued 40 billion euros of debt with maturities between 15 years and 50 years, about 21 percent of total issuance, compared with 18 percent in 2009 and 10 percent in 2008.

“Since the spring of 2009, we have seen strong demand for our long and ultra-long bonds,” Mills said. “We’ll study the opportunity to introduce a new long bond, probably at the end of 2011.”

France bought back 22.7 billion euros of debt last year, including 18.2 billion euros of debt maturing in 2011 and 4.5 billion euros of debt maturing in 2012.

The French budget deficit is forecast to be 91.6 billion euros next year, equivalent to about 6 percent of gross domestic product, down from 149.7 billion euros, or 7.5 percent of GDP, in 2010.

France Trims 2011 Debt Sale Plan, Maturity Lengthens - Businessweek
We're talking total debt

France's public debt reached 1.591 trillion euros (2.172 trillion U.S. dollars) in the second quarter, an increase of 56 billion euros (76.46 billion dollars) compared to the previous quarter, official figures showed Thursday.
France's debt up by 56 billion euros in second quarter
 
Times are tough all over the Western World folks.

Of course our Banking system is basically all the same closely linked corporations, so that's to be expected.
 
Goldman Sachs <--> Greece is true, it was covered intensively covered in German media.
But the total size of the credit taken was just a relatively small 11 billion $, whilst Goldmann Sachs helped Greece to declare only 10 billion $.
They faked it by taking debt in YEN then converting it to &#8364; and then back to YEN with differing currency-exchange-rates. They call it Cross-Currency-Swap.
 

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