The GOP's Eight Year Lie

[Freewill]

I'll give you one on this mac, there was an eight year lie and the lie was that a replacement would ever by passed. It didn't really matter if they had a plan or not, repeal and replace was never going to happen. Just as I predicted 8 years ago.

 

[Freewill]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

/---- to be precise it was the RINOs who caused this. They like the power and wanted to run for re election on repeal Obozocare. The Conservative Caucus did the right thing. Time to send Ryan packing.

What would the Conservative Caucus do about health care?
.

They have already said

Let em die

Who said that? Quote please. LOL

 

[danielpalos]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

All I heard was, nothing but repeal, not any form of better solution at lower cost.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Actually it was a Dim 8 yr. lie that they could make a decent healthcare system that works. Never happened.
The GOP deserves more than a couple of months to fix the Dim. fucgup and present an actual working healthcare system.

 

[Mac1958]

I'll give you one on this mac, there was an eight year lie and the lie was that a replacement would ever by passed. It didn't really matter if they had a plan or not, repeal and replace was never going to happen. Just as I predicted 8 years ago.

Yep. The problem for the GOP - and this was clear from the beginning - was that once you give millions of people something, it's damn near impossible to take it away.

The GOP knew that, the Dems sure as hell knew that, but the GOP also knew it could get votes by making a promise on which it knew it could not deliver.

Right now the GOP needs to prove it can govern. It's all on them now.
.

 

[Mac1958]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

All I heard was, nothing but repeal, not any form of better solution at lower cost.

Everything was kept vague, and it's beginning to look like vague was all they had.
.

 

[rightwinger]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

/---- to be precise it was the RINOs who caused this. They like the power and wanted to run for re election on repeal Obozocare. The Conservative Caucus did the right thing. Time to send Ryan packing.

What would the Conservative Caucus do about health care?
.

They have already said

Let em die

Who said that? Quote please. LOL

Ron Paul

 

[rightwinger]

Actually it was a Dim 8 yr. lie that they could make a decent healthcare system that works. Never happened.
The GOP deserves more than a couple of months to fix the Dim. fucgup and present an actual working healthcare system.

Republicans made a half assed effort and then quit

 

[flacaltenn]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

Absolutely right. Gross neglect and incompetence on the part of the WHOLE Republican party. BUT -- at least they did not hire Jonathan Gruber who admitted the lack of transparency and called us STUPID. Or the President and Pelosi/Reid constantly lying to us about "how it works". THIS is why I've been pushing 3rd party politics for 20 years of my life..

Katie Pavlich - Obamacare Architect: Yeah, We Lied to The "Stupid" American People to Get It Passed

Meet Jonathan Gruber, a professor at MIT and an architect of Obamacare. During a panel event last year about how the legislation passed, turning over a sixth of the U.S. economy to the government, Gruber admitted that the Obama administration went through "tortuous" measures to keep the facts about the legislation from the American people, including covering up the redistribution of wealth from the healthy to the sick in the legislation that Obamacare is in fact a tax.

"In terms of risk rated subsidies, if you had a law which said that healthy people are going to pay in, you made explicit healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed. Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really really critical to get for the thing to pass. Look, I wish Mark was right that we could make it all transparent, but I’d rather have this law than not."

Yes, the ACA is an absurd pig of a law crammed down our throats by some intellectually dishonest people, quite possibly with the intent of letting it fall apart and lead us right into Single Payer. Stipulated. And the GOP has had eight (8) years to come up with a viable alternative. They told us they did. They were all ready to go with a great, shiny new idea. And they lied. That great, shiny new idea never existed.

Here's the real problem for the GOP: In dealing with healthcare, it's intellectually hamstrung. It's only painting with half a pallet, or less, because if the result includes "too much government", they won't get re-elected. They could just expand the current Medicare/Medicare Advantage/Medicare Supplement system to everyone, but they can't. Even if they DID come up with something, we'd still have a system with seven (7) different payment systems that don't talk to each other.

The answers are there, the GOP just isn't "allowed" to use them. Party over country.
.

One of the more devious "features" of ObamaCare was to hide a large segment of MediCaid expansion in the Pool. And let the other folks in the pool subsidize it. Makes them look like a cross between Mother Theresa and Saint Nick. One of the reasons that costs exploded in the pool. MediCaid responsibilities lie with the states and their authority should be increased to MATCH their responsibility. And the FEDS should pony up the money for 50 DIFFERENT programs to allow experimentation and testing of concepts within some loose guidelines and goals. Probably DO need a MediCaid expansion. But cheesy expensive and useless high deductible insurance is NOT the solution. Feds should never be subsidizing INSURANCE for the working poor, They should subsidizing the ACTUAL EXPENDITURES and the deductibles. Because only about 2 or 4% of that demographic create more than 40% of costs in any given year..

 

[Mac1958]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

Absolutely right. Gross neglect and incompetence on the part of the WHOLE Republican party. BUT -- at least they did not hire Jonathan Gruber who admitted the lack of transparency and called us STUPID. Or the President and Pelosi/Reid constantly lying to us about "how it works". THIS is why I've been pushing 3rd party politics for 20 years of my life..

Katie Pavlich - Obamacare Architect: Yeah, We Lied to The "Stupid" American People to Get It Passed

Meet Jonathan Gruber, a professor at MIT and an architect of Obamacare. During a panel event last year about how the legislation passed, turning over a sixth of the U.S. economy to the government, Gruber admitted that the Obama administration went through "tortuous" measures to keep the facts about the legislation from the American people, including covering up the redistribution of wealth from the healthy to the sick in the legislation that Obamacare is in fact a tax.

"In terms of risk rated subsidies, if you had a law which said that healthy people are going to pay in, you made explicit healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed. Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really really critical to get for the thing to pass. Look, I wish Mark was right that we could make it all transparent, but I’d rather have this law than not."

Yes, the ACA is an absurd pig of a law crammed down our throats by some intellectually dishonest people, quite possibly with the intent of letting it fall apart and lead us right into Single Payer. Stipulated. And the GOP has had eight (8) years to come up with a viable alternative. They told us they did. They were all ready to go with a great, shiny new idea. And they lied. That great, shiny new idea never existed.

Here's the real problem for the GOP: In dealing with healthcare, it's intellectually hamstrung. It's only painting with half a pallet, or less, because if the result includes "too much government", they won't get re-elected. They could just expand the current Medicare/Medicare Advantage/Medicare Supplement system to everyone, but they can't. Even if they DID come up with something, we'd still have a system with seven (7) different payment systems that don't talk to each other.

The answers are there, the GOP just isn't "allowed" to use them. Party over country.
.

One of the more devious "features" of ObamaCare was to hide a large segment of MediCaid expansion in the Pool. And let the other folks in the pool subsidize it. Makes them look like a cross between Mother Theresa and Saint Nick. One of the reasons that costs exploded in the pool. MediCaid responsibilities lie with the states and their authority should be increased to MATCH their responsibility. And the FEDS should pony up the money for 50 DIFFERENT programs to allow experimentation and testing of concepts within some loose guidelines and goals. Probably DO need a MediCaid expansion. But cheesy expensive and useless high deductible insurance is NOT the solution. Feds should never be subsidizing INSURANCE for the working poor, They should subsidizing the ACTUAL EXPENDITURES and the deductibles. Because only about 2 or 4% of that demographic create more than 40% of costs in any given year..

This beast is just a Frankenstein's monster of individual parts slapped together with bandaids on top of other bandaids to fill holes. That is absolute madness, and something that only a bunch of professional politicians could have belched out.

We're avoiding obvious fixes for political reasons, and that's never good.
.

 

[danielpalos]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

All I heard was, nothing but repeal, not any form of better solution at lower cost.

Everything was kept vague, and it's beginning to look like vague was all they had.
.

just vaporware?

 

[whitehall]

It's true republicans vowed to repeal the monstrosity but the lie belongs to the democrats who passed it without reading the freaking thing.

 

[Mac1958]

It's true republicans vowed to repeal the monstrosity but the lie belongs to the democrats who passed it without reading the freaking thing.

The GOP has the White House, House & Senate.

They've got everything they asked for, and they STILL couldn't get it done.

They knew they wouldn't be able to repeal, because they had nothing to replace it with.
.

 

[Freewill]

I'll give you one on this mac, there was an eight year lie and the lie was that a replacement would ever by passed. It didn't really matter if they had a plan or not, repeal and replace was never going to happen. Just as I predicted 8 years ago.

Yep. The problem for the GOP - and this was clear from the beginning - was that once you give millions of people something, it's damn near impossible to take it away.

The GOP knew that, the Dems sure as hell knew that, but the GOP also knew it could get votes by making a promise on which it knew it could not deliver.

Right now the GOP needs to prove it can govern. It's all on them now.
.

A new plan does not have to take anything away from millions. But even at 10 million that is a small percentage of the population. I think the reason it isn't changed is because of the medical-industrial complex. Too much money to change their cash cow.

 

[Freewill]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

/---- to be precise it was the RINOs who caused this. They like the power and wanted to run for re election on repeal Obozocare. The Conservative Caucus did the right thing. Time to send Ryan packing.

What would the Conservative Caucus do about health care?
.

They have already said

Let em die

Who said that? Quote please. LOL

Ron Paul

Quote please

 

[JoeB131]

And if he had worked on it for 16 months you would have been calling that a failure also. Trump just didn't buy off enough congressmen as did Obama.

why should he have to? You guys have been telling us how the ACA is evil for 7 years now and the Founding Fathers are rolling in their graves and shit.... Every last one of you should be voting to repeal.

But you have the sensible people who realize that throwing 24 million people out of insurance is going to bankrupt the medical system, and 30 nuts who just hate the thought of the government doing anything.

The simple solution. Sit down with the Democrats, get an agreement on sensible reforms, and stop talking shit about "repeal" because your base hates the fact a Black Guy used your plan.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

Depends. They did have a plan. Was it totally fleshed out at that point? No. But they did not keep its main points secret.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".
.

Not all conservatives were on board with that, and they still aren't, as we just saw. Many conservatives just like myself, want 0bamacare repealed and not replaced. So, though that's what YOU fixated on, not all conservatives agreed.

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.
.

They didn't laugh at you when you asked. They had a plan, they didn't have it fleshed out because for 7 years they knew that they would not get 0bamacare repealed. What they had was an outline of a plan, and that was all they needed at the time.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.
.

Like I said, they had a plan and they weren't hiding it. They didn't have it completely ready because, like everyone else in the establishment, they didn't expect Trump to win.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.
.

Yes, they did, no they did not lie.

Okay then, I'll ask again: You said they had a plan three times in your post, what was it, outside of the vague examples I gave?

Did it have a name? Was it in book format so we could read how it all fit together, and understand what it would look like, what it would cost, who would be covered and how?

Eight freaking years. "We have a better plan". They did not, and they knew it. That's lying.
.

Your inner Liberal is showing. You cannot simply call it "vague" and dismiss it. It isn't vague because YOU say it is. As I have explained, it wasn't complete and fleshed out because they didn't have to. They knew that as long as 0bama was potus, there was no chance they would get to put it in place.

It had a name, it was called the GOP Healthcare plan. No, I doubt it was in book form but it didn't have to be. They explained the basic ideas they had. That was all that they needed to do at the time.

It appears that you didn't take the time to read my post more than a skimming. I'm not going to repeat everything I said here. Your failure here is in defining what they had and what they did in a way that enables you to call them a liar. It's a strawman argument. Something the liberals live and die on. I expect, and have read, better from you.

I've been paying close attention to this issue, because I'm trained in it and I deal with it pretty regularly for clients. For five years, I was the lone financial guy in the room, brought in by a Fortune 100 insurer to provide guidance as they pieced together health care plans for my state, benefit by benefit.

So, any detail will get my attention, and the GOP has simply not provided it. We've all heard the same short list of "ideas" - selling across state lines, HSAs, tort reform. All the GOP had to do - and I've said this a million times - was put together a real plan, lay it out, give it a name, and promote it. And all along, as we both know, they said their "ideas" were "better".

Rattling off three or four ideas isn't enough.

They were clearly just faking it, while telling us they had a better plan. Now, with all this power, they're looking foolish.
.

Nothing they put out there did anything to insure more people or address the main cost drivers in the system. That's why no one in the industry supported it. It was a half assed, feeble attempt at best.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

Depends. They did have a plan. Was it totally fleshed out at that point? No. But they did not keep its main points secret.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".
.

Not all conservatives were on board with that, and they still aren't, as we just saw. Many conservatives just like myself, want 0bamacare repealed and not replaced. So, though that's what YOU fixated on, not all conservatives agreed.

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.
.

They didn't laugh at you when you asked. They had a plan, they didn't have it fleshed out because for 7 years they knew that they would not get 0bamacare repealed. What they had was an outline of a plan, and that was all they needed at the time.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.
.

Like I said, they had a plan and they weren't hiding it. They didn't have it completely ready because, like everyone else in the establishment, they didn't expect Trump to win.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.
.

Yes, they did, no they did not lie.

Okay then, I'll ask again: You said they had a plan three times in your post, what was it, outside of the vague examples I gave?

Did it have a name? Was it in book format so we could read how it all fit together, and understand what it would look like?

Eight freaking years. "We have a better plan". They did not, and they knew it. That's lying.
.

It's a simple question.
If they had a better plan, then why did they present the one they did?

Equally easy answer. They never had a better plan.

Wrong, it is far from simple. However, you have hit on the actual lie that the GOP has been telling though I don't think you realize it and the OP missed it completely.

The GOP kept pushing the repeal of Obamacare as often as they could during 0bama's regime. They knew that they had no chance of repealing it. It was a play to their constituents. The RINOs in government don't have the spine to repeal 0bamacare and open up the free market in health insurance, which was what they were touting all along. That is why they aren't going with their original plan. That is why the actual conservatives in Congress hated the bill. They, along with the never-Trumpers like McCain, prevented the bill from having enough votes.

The bill however, was still better than Obamacare.

24 million fewer insured is in no way better.
It is very simple. If they had something better, then what was the purpose of this shitshow?

 

[Mac1958]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

Depends. They did have a plan. Was it totally fleshed out at that point? No. But they did not keep its main points secret.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".
.

Not all conservatives were on board with that, and they still aren't, as we just saw. Many conservatives just like myself, want 0bamacare repealed and not replaced. So, though that's what YOU fixated on, not all conservatives agreed.

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.
.

They didn't laugh at you when you asked. They had a plan, they didn't have it fleshed out because for 7 years they knew that they would not get 0bamacare repealed. What they had was an outline of a plan, and that was all they needed at the time.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.
.

Like I said, they had a plan and they weren't hiding it. They didn't have it completely ready because, like everyone else in the establishment, they didn't expect Trump to win.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.
.

Yes, they did, no they did not lie.

Okay then, I'll ask again: You said they had a plan three times in your post, what was it, outside of the vague examples I gave?

Did it have a name? Was it in book format so we could read how it all fit together, and understand what it would look like, what it would cost, who would be covered and how?

Eight freaking years. "We have a better plan". They did not, and they knew it. That's lying.
.

Your inner Liberal is showing. You cannot simply call it "vague" and dismiss it. It isn't vague because YOU say it is. As I have explained, it wasn't complete and fleshed out because they didn't have to. They knew that as long as 0bama was potus, there was no chance they would get to put it in place.

It had a name, it was called the GOP Healthcare plan. No, I doubt it was in book form but it didn't have to be. They explained the basic ideas they had. That was all that they needed to do at the time.

It appears that you didn't take the time to read my post more than a skimming. I'm not going to repeat everything I said here. Your failure here is in defining what they had and what they did in a way that enables you to call them a liar. It's a strawman argument. Something the liberals live and die on. I expect, and have read, better from you.

I've been paying close attention to this issue, because I'm trained in it and I deal with it pretty regularly for clients. For five years, I was the lone financial guy in the room, brought in by a Fortune 100 insurer to provide guidance as they pieced together health care plans for my state, benefit by benefit.

So, any detail will get my attention, and the GOP has simply not provided it. We've all heard the same short list of "ideas" - selling across state lines, HSAs, tort reform. All the GOP had to do - and I've said this a million times - was put together a real plan, lay it out, give it a name, and promote it. And all along, as we both know, they said their "ideas" were "better".

Rattling off three or four ideas isn't enough.

They were clearly just faking it, while telling us they had a better plan. Now, with all this power, they're looking foolish.
.

Nothing they put out there did anything to insure more people or address the main cost drivers in the system. That's why no one in the industry supported it. It was a half assed, feeble attempt at best.

I compare it to an artist trying to paint a bold, vivid landscape with only half a paint pallet. They not "allowed" to keep "too much" government, so all options in that area are simply not available to them.

You just can't hamstring yourself like that with something this large and complicated.
.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Depends. They did have a plan. Was it totally fleshed out at that point? No. But they did not keep its main points secret.

Not all conservatives were on board with that, and they still aren't, as we just saw. Many conservatives just like myself, want 0bamacare repealed and not replaced. So, though that's what YOU fixated on, not all conservatives agreed.
They didn't laugh at you when you asked. They had a plan, they didn't have it fleshed out because for 7 years they knew that they would not get 0bamacare repealed. What they had was an outline of a plan, and that was all they needed at the time.

Like I said, they had a plan and they weren't hiding it. They didn't have it completely ready because, like everyone else in the establishment, they didn't expect Trump to win.

Yes, they did, no they did not lie.

Okay then, I'll ask again: You said they had a plan three times in your post, what was it, outside of the vague examples I gave?

Did it have a name? Was it in book format so we could read how it all fit together, and understand what it would look like, what it would cost, who would be covered and how?

Eight freaking years. "We have a better plan". They did not, and they knew it. That's lying.
.

Your inner Liberal is showing. You cannot simply call it "vague" and dismiss it. It isn't vague because YOU say it is. As I have explained, it wasn't complete and fleshed out because they didn't have to. They knew that as long as 0bama was potus, there was no chance they would get to put it in place.

It had a name, it was called the GOP Healthcare plan. No, I doubt it was in book form but it didn't have to be. They explained the basic ideas they had. That was all that they needed to do at the time.

It appears that you didn't take the time to read my post more than a skimming. I'm not going to repeat everything I said here. Your failure here is in defining what they had and what they did in a way that enables you to call them a liar. It's a strawman argument. Something the liberals live and die on. I expect, and have read, better from you.

I've been paying close attention to this issue, because I'm trained in it and I deal with it pretty regularly for clients. For five years, I was the lone financial guy in the room, brought in by a Fortune 100 insurer to provide guidance as they pieced together health care plans for my state, benefit by benefit.

So, any detail will get my attention, and the GOP has simply not provided it. We've all heard the same short list of "ideas" - selling across state lines, HSAs, tort reform. All the GOP had to do - and I've said this a million times - was put together a real plan, lay it out, give it a name, and promote it. And all along, as we both know, they said their "ideas" were "better".

Rattling off three or four ideas isn't enough.

They were clearly just faking it, while telling us they had a better plan. Now, with all this power, they're looking foolish.
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Nothing they put out there did anything to insure more people or address the main cost drivers in the system. That's why no one in the industry supported it. It was a half assed, feeble attempt at best.

I compare it to an artist trying to paint a bold, vivid landscape with only half a paint pallet. They not "allowed" to keep "too much" government, so all options in that area are simply not available to them.

You just can't hamstring yourself like that with something this large and complicated.
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I foolishly thought Ryan was maybe a little smarter about policy than most in the house. After this, it's apparent that he's just another political opportunist with nothing to offer. They have destroyed their credibility, at least on healthcare. This was an unforced error of leadership across the board. McConnell should have been on the phone imploring Ryan to slow his roll on this.