The GOP's Eight Year Lie

[JoeB131]

That was not a "Mormon" lie. Putting aside your once again demosratation of religious bigotry, here is an article showing you that it was not a lie.

Mormons lie so much they don't even know they are lying.

The Big, Fat Lie Behind Romney's Absurd 47% Argument

 

[usmbguest5318]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

The GOP didn't have sh*t when they first started complaining about O-care except a lot of rhetoric. They didn't have sh*t to offer, except for a lot of rhetoric, when they won elections and took over Congress, state legislatures and governorships. Last week they didn't so much as have a draft bill that 216 of them could agree on, but they still had a lot of rhetoric. What have they now? More rhetoric.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Maybe they did have a plan and this is what happened to it.

​

....But if they did, they could have just told us what happened. Millions of people have had the same thing happen to them too, haven't they?

I do wonder if they were just bullshitting, thinking that they'd never have this much power. They sure SEEMED to believe what they were saying.

They have all the power they need now, and we're going to see if these people can govern. Early results aren't great.
.

I do wonder if they were just bullshitting

They had to be. There's just no other rational explanation for what we just observed.

I mean really. Anyone who's ever been a parent, a teacher, a client, a boss, or any other person who was expecting a document another person promised to produce, only to have them not deliver it on time and "up to snuff," one sees the exact same pattern I do. Hell, I, like anyone else with have a brain, knew what was up the instant a draft was requested and they had nothing to show but a high level vision statement.

I saw the same thing over and over when I taught college kids. They'd come to me with a high level outline of what they wanted to do for the paper/project they'd been assigned. I'd approve their outline and topic choice. They'd have a month to complete the assignment and they'd turn in some piece of crap that was precious little more than converting the sentence fragments in their outline to complete sentences and adding some empty-ass fluff before and after each one.

Anecdote:

I remember one semester, I assigned a final research paper and I told the class that though I had no paper length requirements, to sufficiently cover the topics, they would probably find themselves writing 30-50 page papers. Do you know one student turned in a seven page paper after having given me a two-page, single spaced outline that actually bode very well for his having an excellent paper. Sadly his outline was far better than his paper. I failed the paper and told the boy I didn't even read it because I had 12 other 30-50 page papers I had to get read and graded before final grades were due.

That experience was a lesson learned for me. The student complained to the department chair that I failed his paper without reading it. I was asked if that was true, and I said it was. I had to haul my ass into the office with my supervising professor, the department chair and the assistant dean to explain why I failed the boy without reading his paper.

It was nothing but a waste of time for all of us. I showed them the assignment and what he turned in. And that was the end of it. I learned, however, that students will complain about having been wronged -- and that school administrators will actually listen to them, which in some ways isn't such a bad thing -- just to see if they can get somewhere with it; thus it's best that I be less candid with them. That wasn't a problem for me, and I suppose it was good that I learned that then rather than later.​

 

[Mac1958]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

The GOP didn't have sh*t when they first started complaining about O-care except a lot of rhetoric. They didn't have sh*t to offer, except for a lot of rhetoric, when they won elections and took over Congress, state legislatures and governorships. Last week they didn't so much as have a draft bill that 216 of them could agree on, but they still had a lot of rhetoric. What have they now? More rhetoric.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Maybe they did have a plan and this is what happened to it.

​

....But if they did, they could have just told us what happened. Millions of people have had the same thing happen to them too, haven't they?

I do wonder if they were just bullshitting, thinking that they'd never have this much power. They sure SEEMED to believe what they were saying.

They have all the power they need now, and we're going to see if these people can govern. Early results aren't great.
.

I do wonder if they were just bullshitting

They had to be. There's just no other rational explanation for what we just observed.

I mean really. Anyone who's ever been a parent, a teacher, a client, a boss, or any other person who was expecting a document another person promised to produce, only to have them not deliver it on time and "up to snuff," one sees the exact same pattern I do. Hell, I, like anyone else with have a brain, knew what was up the instant a draft was requested and they had nothing to show but a high level vision statement.

I saw the same thing over and over when I taught college kids. They'd come to me with a high level outline of what they wanted to do for the paper/project they'd been assigned. I'd approve their outline and topic choice. They'd have a month to complete the assignment and they'd turn in some piece of crap that was precious little more than converting the sentence fragments in their outline to complete sentences and adding some empty-ass fluff before and after each one.

Anecdote:

I remember one semester, I assigned a final research paper and I told the class that though I had no paper length requirements, to sufficiently cover the topics, they would probably find themselves writing 30-50 page papers. Do you know one student turned in a seven page paper after having given me a two-page, single spaced outline that actually bode very well for his having an excellent paper. Sadly his outline was far better than his paper. I failed the paper and told the boy I didn't even read it because I had 12 other 30-50 page papers I had to get read and graded before final grades were due.

That experience was a lesson learned for me. The student complained to the department chair that I failed his paper without reading it. I was asked if that was true, and I said it was. I had to haul my ass into the office with my supervising professor, the department chair and the assistant dean to explain why I failed the boy without reading his paper.

It was nothing but a waste of time for all of us. I showed them the assignment and what he turned in. And that was the end of it. I learned, however, that students will complain about having been wronged -- and that school administrators will actually listen to them, which in some ways isn't such a bad thing -- just to see if they can get somewhere with it; thus it's best that I be less candid with them. That wasn't a problem for me, and I suppose it was good that I learned that then rather than later.​

Yeah, I think that's the most plausible explanation, and full disclosure, I was probably guilty a time or two in college of the same thing....
.

 

[Cellblock2429]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

/---- to be precise it was the RINOs who caused this. They like the power and wanted to run for re election on repeal Obozocare. The Conservative Caucus did the right thing. Time to send Ryan packing.

What would the Conservative Caucus do about health care?
.

/---- The free market like all other kinds of insurance you buy, home, life and auto you big dope.

 

[Freewill]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

The GOP didn't have sh*t when they first started complaining about O-care except a lot of rhetoric. They didn't have sh*t to offer, except for a lot of rhetoric, when they won elections and took over Congress, state legislatures and governorships. Last week they didn't so much as have a draft bill that 216 of them could agree on, but they still had a lot of rhetoric. What have they now? More rhetoric.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Maybe they did have a plan and this is what happened to it.

​

....But if they did, they could have just told us what happened. Millions of people have had the same thing happen to them too, haven't they?

I do wonder if they were just bullshitting, thinking that they'd never have this much power. They sure SEEMED to believe what they were saying.

They have all the power they need now, and we're going to see if these people can govern. Early results aren't great.
.

What plan was not voted on Friday? Was that a democrat plan?

The tentacles of another not well thought out plan are just too big to turn back. I said it from the beginning, Obamacare is going no where. It was forced upon us in the dead of night by "corn husker" kickbacks.

So let's kick Trump in the balls for trying. You apparently didn't want change so instead of pretend harping you should be happy.

All Trump needs to do is address the concerns of the Republicans, he will never be able to convince the democrats who apparently bow to the whims of the establishment. Obamacare has created a medical/industrial complex to which there is no escape except default. With Obamacare the rich get richer an the middle class gets wiped out.

You appear to be saying that the AHCA was the GOP plan we've been told about for eight years.

Is that correct?
.

I and you don 't know, all I know is that ACA is not sustainable and crowing because reform was defeated seems to be counter to logic. But the medical/industrial complex thanks you and the democrats for your support.

Why Are The 2016 Obamacare Rate Increases So Large?

 

[Mac1958]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

/---- to be precise it was the RINOs who caused this. They like the power and wanted to run for re election on repeal Obozocare. The Conservative Caucus did the right thing. Time to send Ryan packing.

What would the Conservative Caucus do about health care?
.

/---- The free market like all other kinds of insurance you buy, home, life and auto you big dope.

You do realize that, if the only people who have health insurance are those who can afford full coverage, you'll be paying for everyone else via higher premiums, co-pays, co-insurance and taxes, right?

And you do realize that, when people don't have access to affordable preventive and diagnostic care, their small problems become bigger and more expensive problems that you'll have to pay for too, right?

Have you thought this through?
.

 

[Mac1958]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

The GOP didn't have sh*t when they first started complaining about O-care except a lot of rhetoric. They didn't have sh*t to offer, except for a lot of rhetoric, when they won elections and took over Congress, state legislatures and governorships. Last week they didn't so much as have a draft bill that 216 of them could agree on, but they still had a lot of rhetoric. What have they now? More rhetoric.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Maybe they did have a plan and this is what happened to it.

​

....But if they did, they could have just told us what happened. Millions of people have had the same thing happen to them too, haven't they?

I do wonder if they were just bullshitting, thinking that they'd never have this much power. They sure SEEMED to believe what they were saying.

They have all the power they need now, and we're going to see if these people can govern. Early results aren't great.
.

What plan was not voted on Friday? Was that a democrat plan?

The tentacles of another not well thought out plan are just too big to turn back. I said it from the beginning, Obamacare is going no where. It was forced upon us in the dead of night by "corn husker" kickbacks.

So let's kick Trump in the balls for trying. You apparently didn't want change so instead of pretend harping you should be happy.

All Trump needs to do is address the concerns of the Republicans, he will never be able to convince the democrats who apparently bow to the whims of the establishment. Obamacare has created a medical/industrial complex to which there is no escape except default. With Obamacare the rich get richer an the middle class gets wiped out.

You appear to be saying that the AHCA was the GOP plan we've been told about for eight years.

Is that correct?
.

I and you don 't know, all I know is that ACA is not sustainable and crowing because reform was defeated seems to be counter to logic. But the medical/industrial complex thanks you and the democrats for your support.

Why Are The 2016 Obamacare Rate Increases So Large?

As I've said a zillion times, the ACA is a horrific pig of a law.

The GOP promised us they'd take care of it, and they never even had a plan.

That's not my fault, and it's not even the Dems' fault.
.

 

[Freewill]

How much do we spent on preventative health care under the PPACA, and what are the cost benefits? How much is proposed in the failing Ryan/Trumpcare, and what would be the cost deficits?

Willow Tree wrote the following statement: "Except the Affordable cCare Act is UnAffordable", this type of simple thinking is emblematic of what is wrong with our democracy - the ignorant and the biddable can vote.

You are correct, it is perfectly affordable for the rich and those getting a free ride. It is also affordable for the middle class if they put off vacations and such to pay for it.

 

[JoeB131]

/---- The free market like all other kinds of insurance you buy, home, life and auto you big dope.

Except that those markets aren't really "Free".

Your bank usually demands that you buy home insurance, and most states mandate auto insurance before they'll give you a driver's license.

A free market would be one where you have the option to not buy the product and take the consequences, something we found just plain old doesn't work for home or auto, and it doesn't work for health insurance, either.

 

[usmbguest5318]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

The GOP didn't have sh*t when they first started complaining about O-care except a lot of rhetoric. They didn't have sh*t to offer, except for a lot of rhetoric, when they won elections and took over Congress, state legislatures and governorships. Last week they didn't so much as have a draft bill that 216 of them could agree on, but they still had a lot of rhetoric. What have they now? More rhetoric.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Maybe they did have a plan and this is what happened to it.

​

....But if they did, they could have just told us what happened. Millions of people have had the same thing happen to them too, haven't they?

I do wonder if they were just bullshitting, thinking that they'd never have this much power. They sure SEEMED to believe what they were saying.

They have all the power they need now, and we're going to see if these people can govern. Early results aren't great.
.

What plan was not voted on Friday? Was that a democrat plan?

The tentacles of another not well thought out plan are just too big to turn back. I said it from the beginning, Obamacare is going no where. It was forced upon us in the dead of night by "corn husker" kickbacks.

So let's kick Trump in the balls for trying. You apparently didn't want change so instead of pretend harping you should be happy.

All Trump needs to do is address the concerns of the Republicans, he will never be able to convince the democrats who apparently bow to the whims of the establishment. Obamacare has created a medical/industrial complex to which there is no escape except default. With Obamacare the rich get richer an the middle class gets wiped out.

What plan was not voted on Friday? Was that a democrat plan?

A plan that's total sh*t is no better than having no plan.

It's like when a student turns in a piece of crap and wants credit for trying. That's when you have to reply to them, "Well, it's obvious now that you shouldn't have. Given the quality of what you turned in, sleep would have been a more erstwhile use of your time."

You see, in the world of grown-ups, merely trying doesn't actually count. Results are what count.

What plan was not voted on Friday? Was that a democrat plan? The tentacles of another not well thought out plan are just too big to turn back. I said it from the beginning, Obamacare is going no where. It was forced upon us in the dead of night by "corn husker" kickbacks.

What the Dems produced is imperfect. There're no two ways about that. All the same, they produced something, and it's something that a lot of people, the majority of people, like better than what the GOP was offering.

Now I don't often put much stock in poll results (actual voting is different), but I have read the AHCA and having done so, it was very apparent that the legislation the GOP proposed, for however much gov't money it may have saved, was horrible for average or low income citizens prospects of obtaining health insurance under its provisions. That bill would have funded defense spending increases and deficit reductions on the backs of the least wealthy, least able to pay for it, segment of our society.

With things like health insurance and healthcare, people don't care if the government goes into debt as much as they whether they have insurance. They are of that mind because, at the end of the day, needing to have a $20K procedure and having a $7K deductible is still better than needing a $20K procedure and having no health insurance.

So let's kick Trump in the balls for trying. You apparently didn't want change so instead of pretend harping you should be happy.

Nobody's kicking his balls for trying. We're kicking them for his having failed on every level -- not just with regard to "this or that" provision -- with regard to his health insurance/healthcare campaign promises. Don't confuse the two.

 

[usmbguest5318]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

The GOP didn't have sh*t when they first started complaining about O-care except a lot of rhetoric. They didn't have sh*t to offer, except for a lot of rhetoric, when they won elections and took over Congress, state legislatures and governorships. Last week they didn't so much as have a draft bill that 216 of them could agree on, but they still had a lot of rhetoric. What have they now? More rhetoric.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Maybe they did have a plan and this is what happened to it.

​

....But if they did, they could have just told us what happened. Millions of people have had the same thing happen to them too, haven't they?

I do wonder if they were just bullshitting, thinking that they'd never have this much power. They sure SEEMED to believe what they were saying.

They have all the power they need now, and we're going to see if these people can govern. Early results aren't great.
.

I do wonder if they were just bullshitting

They had to be. There's just no other rational explanation for what we just observed.

I mean really. Anyone who's ever been a parent, a teacher, a client, a boss, or any other person who was expecting a document another person promised to produce, only to have them not deliver it on time and "up to snuff," one sees the exact same pattern I do. Hell, I, like anyone else with have a brain, knew what was up the instant a draft was requested and they had nothing to show but a high level vision statement.

I saw the same thing over and over when I taught college kids. They'd come to me with a high level outline of what they wanted to do for the paper/project they'd been assigned. I'd approve their outline and topic choice. They'd have a month to complete the assignment and they'd turn in some piece of crap that was precious little more than converting the sentence fragments in their outline to complete sentences and adding some empty-ass fluff before and after each one.

Anecdote:

I remember one semester, I assigned a final research paper and I told the class that though I had no paper length requirements, to sufficiently cover the topics, they would probably find themselves writing 30-50 page papers. Do you know one student turned in a seven page paper after having given me a two-page, single spaced outline that actually bode very well for his having an excellent paper. Sadly his outline was far better than his paper. I failed the paper and told the boy I didn't even read it because I had 12 other 30-50 page papers I had to get read and graded before final grades were due.

That experience was a lesson learned for me. The student complained to the department chair that I failed his paper without reading it. I was asked if that was true, and I said it was. I had to haul my ass into the office with my supervising professor, the department chair and the assistant dean to explain why I failed the boy without reading his paper.

It was nothing but a waste of time for all of us. I showed them the assignment and what he turned in. And that was the end of it. I learned, however, that students will complain about having been wronged -- and that school administrators will actually listen to them, which in some ways isn't such a bad thing -- just to see if they can get somewhere with it; thus it's best that I be less candid with them. That wasn't a problem for me, and I suppose it was good that I learned that then rather than later.​

Yeah, I think that's the most plausible explanation, and full disclosure, I was probably guilty a time or two in college of the same thing....
.

full disclosure, I was probably guilty a time or two in college of the same thing....

I suspect nearly everyone has tried that stunt, or one like it, at some point in their formative years. This failure happened in the U.S. Congress and WH. We don't elect high school and college undergrads to those offices, yet we seem to have people who have yet to learn the lessons the rest of us did in our formative years.

 

[rightwinger]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

/---- to be precise it was the RINOs who caused this. They like the power and wanted to run for re election on repeal Obozocare. The Conservative Caucus did the right thing. Time to send Ryan packing.

What would the Conservative Caucus do about health care?
.

They have already said

Let em die

 

[Freewill]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

The GOP didn't have sh*t when they first started complaining about O-care except a lot of rhetoric. They didn't have sh*t to offer, except for a lot of rhetoric, when they won elections and took over Congress, state legislatures and governorships. Last week they didn't so much as have a draft bill that 216 of them could agree on, but they still had a lot of rhetoric. What have they now? More rhetoric.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Maybe they did have a plan and this is what happened to it.

​

....But if they did, they could have just told us what happened. Millions of people have had the same thing happen to them too, haven't they?

I do wonder if they were just bullshitting, thinking that they'd never have this much power. They sure SEEMED to believe what they were saying.

They have all the power they need now, and we're going to see if these people can govern. Early results aren't great.
.

What plan was not voted on Friday? Was that a democrat plan?

The tentacles of another not well thought out plan are just too big to turn back. I said it from the beginning, Obamacare is going no where. It was forced upon us in the dead of night by "corn husker" kickbacks.

So let's kick Trump in the balls for trying. You apparently didn't want change so instead of pretend harping you should be happy.

All Trump needs to do is address the concerns of the Republicans, he will never be able to convince the democrats who apparently bow to the whims of the establishment. Obamacare has created a medical/industrial complex to which there is no escape except default. With Obamacare the rich get richer an the middle class gets wiped out.

What plan was not voted on Friday? Was that a democrat plan?

A plan that's total sh*t is no better than having no plan.

It's like when a student turns in a piece of crap and wants credit for trying. That's when you have to reply to them, "Well, it's obvious now that you shouldn't have. Given the quality of what you turned in, sleep would have been a more erstwhile use of your time."

You see, in the world of grown-ups, merely trying doesn't actually count. Results are what count.

What plan was not voted on Friday? Was that a democrat plan? The tentacles of another not well thought out plan are just too big to turn back. I said it from the beginning, Obamacare is going no where. It was forced upon us in the dead of night by "corn husker" kickbacks.

What the Dems produced is imperfect. There're no two ways about that. All the same, they produced something, and it's something that a lot of people, the majority of people, like better than what the GOP was offering.

Now I don't often put much stock in poll results (actual voting is different), but I have read the AHCA and having done so, it was very apparent that the legislation the GOP proposed, for however much gov't money it may have saved, was horrible for average or low income citizens prospects of obtaining health insurance under its provisions. That bill would have funded defense spending increases and deficit reductions on the backs of the least wealthy, least able to pay for it, segment of our society.

With things like health insurance and healthcare, people don't care if the government goes into debt as much as they whether they have insurance. They are of that mind because, at the end of the day, needing to have a $20K procedure and having a $7K deductible is still better than needing a $20K procedure and having no health insurance.

So let's kick Trump in the balls for trying. You apparently didn't want change so instead of pretend harping you should be happy.

Nobody's kicking his balls for trying. We're kicking them for his having failed on every level -- not just with regard to "this or that" provision -- with regard to his health insurance/healthcare campaign promises. Don't confuse the two.

Changing the ACA is not like doing ones homework, but to continue your analogy. Changing ACA is like giving a Calculas test to a 3rd grader. Failure is inevitable. Nothing proposed to the democrats would they vote in favor, nothing. As you say everyone knows ACA is bad, real bad, but the democrats did not raise a finger to help reform the bill, does that make them bad people, I think so.

What we should get out of this is that it is hard to buck the establishment, incredibly hard. Trump will learn that and I think do better in the future. Hillary would never have bucked the establishment so what is better, trying and failing or just going along with the medical/industrial complex that the democrats created?

In the meantime let's all make sure we make it a bigger issue then it really is. If democrats are so happy with ACA that they won't even venture a change, then they should be happy, but they don't sound happy. They seldom sound happy.

 

[rightwinger]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

The GOP didn't have sh*t when they first started complaining about O-care except a lot of rhetoric. They didn't have sh*t to offer, except for a lot of rhetoric, when they won elections and took over Congress, state legislatures and governorships. Last week they didn't so much as have a draft bill that 216 of them could agree on, but they still had a lot of rhetoric. What have they now? More rhetoric.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Maybe they did have a plan and this is what happened to it.

​

....But if they did, they could have just told us what happened. Millions of people have had the same thing happen to them too, haven't they?

I do wonder if they were just bullshitting, thinking that they'd never have this much power. They sure SEEMED to believe what they were saying.

They have all the power they need now, and we're going to see if these people can govern. Early results aren't great.
.

What plan was not voted on Friday? Was that a democrat plan?

The tentacles of another not well thought out plan are just too big to turn back. I said it from the beginning, Obamacare is going no where. It was forced upon us in the dead of night by "corn husker" kickbacks.

So let's kick Trump in the balls for trying. You apparently didn't want change so instead of pretend harping you should be happy.

All Trump needs to do is address the concerns of the Republicans, he will never be able to convince the democrats who apparently bow to the whims of the establishment. Obamacare has created a medical/industrial complex to which there is no escape except default. With Obamacare the rich get richer an the middle class gets wiped out.

Trump didn't even try

Obama worked 16 months to get his legislation passed. Trump spent 60 days and quit

 

[usmbguest5318]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

The GOP didn't have sh*t when they first started complaining about O-care except a lot of rhetoric. They didn't have sh*t to offer, except for a lot of rhetoric, when they won elections and took over Congress, state legislatures and governorships. Last week they didn't so much as have a draft bill that 216 of them could agree on, but they still had a lot of rhetoric. What have they now? More rhetoric.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Maybe they did have a plan and this is what happened to it.

​

....But if they did, they could have just told us what happened. Millions of people have had the same thing happen to them too, haven't they?

I do wonder if they were just bullshitting, thinking that they'd never have this much power. They sure SEEMED to believe what they were saying.

They have all the power they need now, and we're going to see if these people can govern. Early results aren't great.
.

What plan was not voted on Friday? Was that a democrat plan?

The tentacles of another not well thought out plan are just too big to turn back. I said it from the beginning, Obamacare is going no where. It was forced upon us in the dead of night by "corn husker" kickbacks.

So let's kick Trump in the balls for trying. You apparently didn't want change so instead of pretend harping you should be happy.

All Trump needs to do is address the concerns of the Republicans, he will never be able to convince the democrats who apparently bow to the whims of the establishment. Obamacare has created a medical/industrial complex to which there is no escape except default. With Obamacare the rich get richer an the middle class gets wiped out.

You appear to be saying that the AHCA was the GOP plan we've been told about for eight years.

Is that correct?
.

I and you don 't know, all I know is that ACA is not sustainable and crowing because reform was defeated seems to be counter to logic. But the medical/industrial complex thanks you and the democrats for your support.

Why Are The 2016 Obamacare Rate Increases So Large?

I and you don 't know

Well, actually, one can know if one bothers to find out. The earliest version of the bill dates to the 113th Congress (2013). Republicans have been bitching about O-care since before it was passed, but let's call it 2010 since that's when it passed.

Be that as it may, what they had was a bill, but not a plan for how to get it passed.

 

[usmbguest5318]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

The GOP didn't have sh*t when they first started complaining about O-care except a lot of rhetoric. They didn't have sh*t to offer, except for a lot of rhetoric, when they won elections and took over Congress, state legislatures and governorships. Last week they didn't so much as have a draft bill that 216 of them could agree on, but they still had a lot of rhetoric. What have they now? More rhetoric.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Maybe they did have a plan and this is what happened to it.

​

....But if they did, they could have just told us what happened. Millions of people have had the same thing happen to them too, haven't they?

I do wonder if they were just bullshitting, thinking that they'd never have this much power. They sure SEEMED to believe what they were saying.

They have all the power they need now, and we're going to see if these people can govern. Early results aren't great.
.

What plan was not voted on Friday? Was that a democrat plan?

The tentacles of another not well thought out plan are just too big to turn back. I said it from the beginning, Obamacare is going no where. It was forced upon us in the dead of night by "corn husker" kickbacks.

So let's kick Trump in the balls for trying. You apparently didn't want change so instead of pretend harping you should be happy.

All Trump needs to do is address the concerns of the Republicans, he will never be able to convince the democrats who apparently bow to the whims of the establishment. Obamacare has created a medical/industrial complex to which there is no escape except default. With Obamacare the rich get richer an the middle class gets wiped out.

Trump didn't even try

Obama worked 16 months to get his legislation passed. Trump spent 60 days and quit

Trump didn't even try

Well, he held two rallies. I don't know what exactly he said at them, but it clearly wasn't helpful.

That said, Trump's "strong suit," as it were, is marketing. The man's actually effective with "smoke and mirrors." Why in the name of Christ he didn't bring his marketing skills to bear is beyond me. Strategically, he had to know that the spending cuts in the AHCA were what enable the tax reform he wants to enact.

His failure on the AHCA will "ripple" into whatever tax reform he aims to achieve. Given the AHCA failure, whatever he may get done on tax reform, it'll amount to a windfall for corporate interests and "tits on a bull" for "typical" individual taxpayers. Rich people and thriving pass-through entity owners will likely come out okay.

 

[Freewill]

The GOP didn't have sh*t when they first started complaining about O-care except a lot of rhetoric. They didn't have sh*t to offer, except for a lot of rhetoric, when they won elections and took over Congress, state legislatures and governorships. Last week they didn't so much as have a draft bill that 216 of them could agree on, but they still had a lot of rhetoric. What have they now? More rhetoric.

Maybe they did have a plan and this is what happened to it.

​

....But if they did, they could have just told us what happened. Millions of people have had the same thing happen to them too, haven't they?

I do wonder if they were just bullshitting, thinking that they'd never have this much power. They sure SEEMED to believe what they were saying.

They have all the power they need now, and we're going to see if these people can govern. Early results aren't great.
.

What plan was not voted on Friday? Was that a democrat plan?

The tentacles of another not well thought out plan are just too big to turn back. I said it from the beginning, Obamacare is going no where. It was forced upon us in the dead of night by "corn husker" kickbacks.

So let's kick Trump in the balls for trying. You apparently didn't want change so instead of pretend harping you should be happy.

All Trump needs to do is address the concerns of the Republicans, he will never be able to convince the democrats who apparently bow to the whims of the establishment. Obamacare has created a medical/industrial complex to which there is no escape except default. With Obamacare the rich get richer an the middle class gets wiped out.

You appear to be saying that the AHCA was the GOP plan we've been told about for eight years.

Is that correct?
.

I and you don 't know, all I know is that ACA is not sustainable and crowing because reform was defeated seems to be counter to logic. But the medical/industrial complex thanks you and the democrats for your support.

Why Are The 2016 Obamacare Rate Increases So Large?

I and you don 't know

Well, actually, one can know if one bothers to find out. The earliest version of the bill dates to the 113th Congress (2013). Republicans have been bitching about O-care since before it was passed, but let's call it 2010 since that's when it passed.

Be that as it may, what they had was a bill, but not a plan for how to get it passed.

I admit, they were not serious, in my opinion. As with most government boondoggles that have tentacles that reach as far as Obamacare it will be hard to kill the beast. First there are those who are getting a freebee. Then there are the establishment rich kids that directly effect campaign funding. I don't think they seriously tried because they were scared of what might actually happen. To their credit I heard of no one being bought off, like the "corn husker" kickback.

 

[Freewill]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

The GOP didn't have sh*t when they first started complaining about O-care except a lot of rhetoric. They didn't have sh*t to offer, except for a lot of rhetoric, when they won elections and took over Congress, state legislatures and governorships. Last week they didn't so much as have a draft bill that 216 of them could agree on, but they still had a lot of rhetoric. What have they now? More rhetoric.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Maybe they did have a plan and this is what happened to it.

​

....But if they did, they could have just told us what happened. Millions of people have had the same thing happen to them too, haven't they?

I do wonder if they were just bullshitting, thinking that they'd never have this much power. They sure SEEMED to believe what they were saying.

They have all the power they need now, and we're going to see if these people can govern. Early results aren't great.
.

What plan was not voted on Friday? Was that a democrat plan?

The tentacles of another not well thought out plan are just too big to turn back. I said it from the beginning, Obamacare is going no where. It was forced upon us in the dead of night by "corn husker" kickbacks.

So let's kick Trump in the balls for trying. You apparently didn't want change so instead of pretend harping you should be happy.

All Trump needs to do is address the concerns of the Republicans, he will never be able to convince the democrats who apparently bow to the whims of the establishment. Obamacare has created a medical/industrial complex to which there is no escape except default. With Obamacare the rich get richer an the middle class gets wiped out.

Trump didn't even try

Obama worked 16 months to get his legislation passed. Trump spent 60 days and quit

And if he had worked on it for 16 months you would have been calling that a failure also. Trump just didn't buy off enough congressmen as did Obama.

 

[rightwinger]

And it sure as hell was a lie.

For years the GOP has been telling us, "just elect us, we have the plan for health care, and we'll fix it if we just have the power to ".

When we asked to SEE the plan, they laughed and said there was one and we didn't need to see it. They tossed a few vague "examples" of it - "We'll let insurance companies sell across state lines", or "we'll do HSA plans", or "tort reform", but it sure did seem like they didn't have an actual plan.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Well, they sure didn't, did they? They've been lying all this time.

We're not supposed to take Trump literally, but seriously. How are we supposed to take the GOP now? Are we supposed to believe ANYTHING at this point?
.

The GOP didn't have sh*t when they first started complaining about O-care except a lot of rhetoric. They didn't have sh*t to offer, except for a lot of rhetoric, when they won elections and took over Congress, state legislatures and governorships. Last week they didn't so much as have a draft bill that 216 of them could agree on, but they still had a lot of rhetoric. What have they now? More rhetoric.

Okay, maybe I was wrong, maybe they were being honest, maybe they had a plan and would unveil it the day after Trump's inauguration day.

Maybe they did have a plan and this is what happened to it.

​

....But if they did, they could have just told us what happened. Millions of people have had the same thing happen to them too, haven't they?

I do wonder if they were just bullshitting, thinking that they'd never have this much power. They sure SEEMED to believe what they were saying.

They have all the power they need now, and we're going to see if these people can govern. Early results aren't great.
.

What plan was not voted on Friday? Was that a democrat plan?

The tentacles of another not well thought out plan are just too big to turn back. I said it from the beginning, Obamacare is going no where. It was forced upon us in the dead of night by "corn husker" kickbacks.

So let's kick Trump in the balls for trying. You apparently didn't want change so instead of pretend harping you should be happy.

All Trump needs to do is address the concerns of the Republicans, he will never be able to convince the democrats who apparently bow to the whims of the establishment. Obamacare has created a medical/industrial complex to which there is no escape except default. With Obamacare the rich get richer an the middle class gets wiped out.

Trump didn't even try

Obama worked 16 months to get his legislation passed. Trump spent 60 days and quit

Trump didn't even try

Well, he held two rallies. I don't know what exactly he said at them, but it clearly wasn't helpful.

That said, Trump's "strong suit," as it were, is marketing. The man's actually effective with "smoke and mirrors." Why in the name of Christ he didn't bring his marketing skills to bear is beyond me. Strategically, he had to know that the spending cuts in the AHCA were what enable the tax reform he wants to enact.

His failure on the AHCA will "ripple" into whatever tax reform he aims to achieve. Given the AHCA failure, whatever he may get done on tax reform, it'll amount to a windfall for corporate interests and "tits on a bull for "typical" individual taxpayers. Rich people and thriving pass-through entity owners will likely come out okay.

Trump thought he could bully and threaten Freedom Caucus members. He doesn't realize they are in safe districts and aren't afraid of reelection

Trump can't sell Trumpcare because he is too stupid. He doesn't know what is in it and is too lazy to study up on the product he is trying to sell. He still thinks if he puts the Trump name on something...it will sell

 

[WillowTree]

See! What you takers never realize is that resources are finite. When the split is 53-47 you are rapidly running out of makers and the takers are over taking. Someday the taker will have no one to ake from. Taxes are punitive. We need flat taxes on absolutely everyone! No exemptions.

My God, that's the most retarded thing I've seen on this board today.

First, the "47%" number is a Mormon Lie. Not sure why you keep repeating it.

The Labor Force Participation rate is 63%. The remaining 37% are children, the disabled, the elderly and yes, those on assistance.

The thing is, not the fact that resources are finite, but that they are unevenly distributed.

The top 20% control 87% of the wealth. The bottom 40% control less than 1% of the wealth. And therein lies the problem.

Prove me wrong asshole or stfu!