The GOP has blown it on Health Care

[WheelieAddict]

It's amazing, given the storybook come-back the GOP made in November, that they've already shot themselves in the foot so often, since resuming power.

It's easy to oppose everything, a lot harder to fix things.

 

[Mac1958]

It's amazing, given the storybook come-back the GOP made in November, that they've already shot themselves in the foot so often, since resuming power.

It's easy to oppose everything, a lot harder to fix things.

Yep, especially when we have chosen to be this divided.
.

 

[JoeB131]

Yep, especially when we have chosen to be this divided.

Well, not our fault that half the country is willing to turn a blind eye to Trump's racism and misogyny because government makes them angry.

 

[WheelieAddict]

Good for business no more major health care expense in salary. They can still offer their own health care plan if they like or a supplement.

So, not only do I lose my health insurance, but I lose that portion of my compensation as well? Sweet deal. What employee wouldn't just LOVE that? No company us,going to offer gealth coversge if the Government tells them they don't have to.

It is up to your employer to offer coverage as part of your compensation. Are you saying you agree the govt. should mandate all employers offer health insurance?

 

[WheelieAddict]

It's amazing, given the storybook come-back the GOP made in November, that they've already shot themselves in the foot so often, since resuming power.

It's easy to oppose everything, a lot harder to fix things.

Yep, especially when we have chosen to be this divided.
.

Not "we", maybe "you" have though.

 

[NightFox]

It's amazing, given the storybook come-back the GOP made in November, that they've already shot themselves in the foot so often, since resuming power.

It's easy to oppose everything, a lot harder to fix things.

Yep, especially when we have chosen to be this divided.
.

IMHO the "division" you are referring to is largely a product of top-down thinking, especially when the "top" comes from centralized (federal) power since pretty much anything it does is going to piss off vast swaths of the citizenry. *Real* solutions (those that are most often palatable to the majority of the affected) are bottom up and start with community->local->state, the federal level should only ever be involved as a last resort when the states don't have the wherewithal to address the needs of it's own citizens. Bottom-up solutions can be tailored to the specific wants/needs/traditions/relationships, etc.., of the affected and they can be replicated/modified elsewhere when/if they show promise, one size fits all cannot.

The decades long federal involvement in healthcare imbroglio illustrates this perfectly, it has caused enormous market inefficiencies to develop, wasted vast amounts of resources and created a cabal of special interests that jealously guard their tax payer funded, politically leveraged privilege & power and as a result we have one half of the country constantly at the throats of the other half over a *problem* that could be most easily be *resolved* solely by the 50 laboratories of democracy at our disposal.

"Those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth. And let me remind you, they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyrannies. Absolute power does corrupt, and those who seek it must be suspect and must be opposed." -- Barry M. Goldwater

 

[Mac1958]

It's amazing, given the storybook come-back the GOP made in November, that they've already shot themselves in the foot so often, since resuming power.

It's easy to oppose everything, a lot harder to fix things.

Yep, especially when we have chosen to be this divided..

Not "we", maybe "you" have though.

Ah, it's all the "other" side's fault.

Of course. How appropriate.
.

 

[WheelieAddict]

It's amazing, given the storybook come-back the GOP made in November, that they've already shot themselves in the foot so often, since resuming power.

It's easy to oppose everything, a lot harder to fix things.

Yep, especially when we have chosen to be this divided.
.

IMHO the "division" you are referring to is largely a product of top-down thinking, especially when the "top" comes from centralized (federal) power since pretty much anything it does is going to piss off vast swaths of the citizenry. *Real* solutions (those that are most often palatable to the majority of the affected) are bottom up and start with community->local->state, the federal level should only ever be involved as a last resort when the states don't have the wherewithal to address the needs of it's own citizens. Bottom-up solutions can be tailored to the specific wants/needs/traditions/relationships, etc.., of the affected and they can be replicated/modified elsewhere when/if they show promise, one size fits all cannot.

The decades long federal involvement in healthcare imbroglio illustrates this perfectly, it has caused enormous market inefficiencies to develop, wasted vast amounts of resources and created a cabal of special interests that jealously guard their tax payer funded, politically leveraged privilege & power and as a result we have one half of the country constantly at the throats of the other half over a *problem* that could be most easily be *resolved* solely by the 50 laboratories of democracy at our disposal.

"Those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth. And let me remind you, they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyrannies. Absolute power does corrupt, and those who seek it must be suspect and must be opposed." -- Barry M. Goldwater

So with your thinking there would be no national highway system, mandated vaccines to eliminate polio etc for the public good, federal safety standards that make all cars much safer nowadays, etc.

Or do you only want the feds to enforce things you personally like? Or do you wish they have no power to enforce the things I mentioned and the US be a weak mishmash with dumb states weighing the rest down?

 

[WheelieAddict]

It's amazing, given the storybook come-back the GOP made in November, that they've already shot themselves in the foot so often, since resuming power.

It's easy to oppose everything, a lot harder to fix things.

Yep, especially when we have chosen to be this divided..

Not "we", maybe "you" have though.

Ah, it's all the "other" side's fault.

Of course. How appropriate.
.

You have chosen to blame all for all problems, therefore you have no solution since all are wrong.

 

[Anathema]

It is up to your employer to offer coverage as part of your compensation. Are you saying you agree the govt. should mandate all employers offer health insurance?

No. What I'm saying is thst our system is currently based largely on employer provided health plans because there is no reasonable alternative option. Therefore employees can demand it as a benefit and compensation.

The minute a simple, Government healthcare option becomes available, employers will push their employees into that system to save money. There will no longer be an emoloyer offered option.

Not only will that deprive the employees of decent healthcare, they will lose the value of their current health plan from their compensation. Especially since I don't see employers making that value up elsewhere if not forced to.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Yep, especially when we have chosen to be this divided.

Well, not our fault that half the country is willing to turn a blind eye to Trump's racism and misogyny because government makes them angry.

But it is your fault that the other half turns a blind eye to cronyism, corruption and bullshit.

 

[NightFox]

It's amazing, given the storybook come-back the GOP made in November, that they've already shot themselves in the foot so often, since resuming power.

It's easy to oppose everything, a lot harder to fix things.

Yep, especially when we have chosen to be this divided.
.

IMHO the "division" you are referring to is largely a product of top-down thinking, especially when the "top" comes from centralized (federal) power since pretty much anything it does is going to piss off vast swaths of the citizenry. *Real* solutions (those that are most often palatable to the majority of the affected) are bottom up and start with community->local->state, the federal level should only ever be involved as a last resort when the states don't have the wherewithal to address the needs of it's own citizens. Bottom-up solutions can be tailored to the specific wants/needs/traditions/relationships, etc.., of the affected and they can be replicated/modified elsewhere when/if they show promise, one size fits all cannot.

The decades long federal involvement in healthcare imbroglio illustrates this perfectly, it has caused enormous market inefficiencies to develop, wasted vast amounts of resources and created a cabal of special interests that jealously guard their tax payer funded, politically leveraged privilege & power and as a result we have one half of the country constantly at the throats of the other half over a *problem* that could be most easily be *resolved* solely by the 50 laboratories of democracy at our disposal.

"Those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth. And let me remind you, they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyrannies. Absolute power does corrupt, and those who seek it must be suspect and must be opposed." -- Barry M. Goldwater

So with your thinking there would be no national highway system,

Why is that you think the states couldn't accomplish this via cooperation in pursuit of mutual self interest?

mandated vaccines to eliminate polio etc for the public good, federal safety standards that make all cars much safer nowadays, etc.

Any or all of those things can (and in cases already are) done at the state level per the dictates of the wants and needs of the citizenry of the individual states.

Or do you only want the feds to enforce things you personally like? Or do you wish they have no power to enforce the things I mentioned and the US be a weak mishmash with dumb states weighing the rest down?

Honestly I don't want them to "enforce" anything, the federal government has explicitly defined Constitutional responsibilities and it shouldn't be doing ANYTHING beyond them. The only reason government exists is to defend the life, liberty and property of the citizenry and instead what we get is constant violations of those things in addition to infringement upon the sovereignty of the states and the natural purview of localities. That's what remote, centralized power does and it's exactly the reason the founders saw fit to create a federal republic pursuant to the decentralization of power, we're going in the wrong direction and it is eroding our individual liberty, popular sovereignty and future prosperity.

"The true theory of our Constitution is surely the wisest and best, that the States are independent as to everything within themselves, and united as to everything respecting foreign nations." -- Thomas Jefferson

 

[WheelieAddict]

It is up to your employer to offer coverage as part of your compensation. Are you saying you agree the govt. should mandate all employers offer health insurance?

No. What I'm saying is thst our system is currently based largely on employer provided health plans because there is no reasonable alternative option. Therefore employees can demand it as a benefit and compensation.

The minute a simple, Government healthcare option becomes available, employers will push their employees into that system to save money. There will no longer be an emoloyer offered option.

Not only will that deprive the employees of decent healthcare, they will lose the value of their current health plan from their compensation. Especially since I don't see employers making that value up elsewhere if not forced to.

This isn't 1955 when US employers need to offer a health plan to attract employees because the US rules manufacturing in the world and can't get enough labor, and unions demanding benefits such as health care are now basically extinct. Wall mart is now the biggest employer and their employees among the most claiming govt. benefits, the govt is keeping wall mart employees healthy for wall mart's benefit. The govt is already subsidzing companies.

 

[Anathema]

This isn't 1955 when US employers need to offer a health plan to attract employees because the US rules manufacturing in the world and can't get enough labor, and unions demanding benefits such as health care are now basically extinct. Wall mart is now the biggest employer and their employees among the most claiming govt. benefits, the govt is keeping wall mart employees healthy for wall mart's benefit. The govt is already subsidzing companies.

No employer who fails to offer healthcard benefits iz going to attract well educated and skilled workers in this dsy and age. The Wal-Mart model will not work for Google or Apple or Gendral Electric..... unless they all collude to stop providing the benefit. Unfortunately i can see exactly that happening.

The Government has no legitimate place being involved in health care. It never has.

 

[WheelieAddict]

It's amazing, given the storybook come-back the GOP made in November, that they've already shot themselves in the foot so often, since resuming power.

It's easy to oppose everything, a lot harder to fix things.

Yep, especially when we have chosen to be this divided.
.

IMHO the "division" you are referring to is largely a product of top-down thinking, especially when the "top" comes from centralized (federal) power since pretty much anything it does is going to piss off vast swaths of the citizenry. *Real* solutions (those that are most often palatable to the majority of the affected) are bottom up and start with community->local->state, the federal level should only ever be involved as a last resort when the states don't have the wherewithal to address the needs of it's own citizens. Bottom-up solutions can be tailored to the specific wants/needs/traditions/relationships, etc.., of the affected and they can be replicated/modified elsewhere when/if they show promise, one size fits all cannot.

The decades long federal involvement in healthcare imbroglio illustrates this perfectly, it has caused enormous market inefficiencies to develop, wasted vast amounts of resources and created a cabal of special interests that jealously guard their tax payer funded, politically leveraged privilege & power and as a result we have one half of the country constantly at the throats of the other half over a *problem* that could be most easily be *resolved* solely by the 50 laboratories of democracy at our disposal.

"Those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth. And let me remind you, they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyrannies. Absolute power does corrupt, and those who seek it must be suspect and must be opposed." -- Barry M. Goldwater

So with your thinking there would be no national highway system,

Why is that you think the states couldn't accomplish this via cooperation in pursuit of mutual self interest?

mandated vaccines to eliminate polio etc for the public good, federal safety standards that make all cars much safer nowadays, etc.

Any or all of those things can (and in cases already are) done at the state level per the dictates of the wants and needs of the citizenry of the individual states.

Or do you only want the feds to enforce things you personally like? Or do you wish they have no power to enforce the things I mentioned and the US be a weak mishmash with dumb states weighing the rest down?

Honestly I don't want them to "enforce" anything, the federal government has explicitly defined Constitutional responsibilities and it shouldn't be doing ANYTHING beyond them. The only reason government exists is to defend the life, liberty and property of the citizenry and instead what we get is constant violations of those things in addition to infringement upon the sovereignty of the states and the natural purview of localities. That's what remote, centralized power does and it's exactly the reason the founders saw fit to create a federal republic pursuant to the decentralization of power, we're going in the wrong direction and it is eroding our individual liberty, popular sovereignty and future prosperity.

"The true theory of our Constitution is surely the wisest and best, that the States are independent as to everything within themselves, and united as to everything respecting foreign nations." -- Thomas Jefferson

If you seriously think 50 states could have agreed on a national highwaay system without the federal govt, and national vaccines without the federal govt, you are simply a moron.

Without the federal govt there is no United States. It is becoming more and more apparent you morons want no or a severely weakened United States.

 

[Crixus]

Well,

The GOP has whined about Obamacare (which I didn't want and I think it sucks) for six years.

Where was their plan ?

I mean honestly.....this is hysterical.

No plan, no concept of a plan, nothing........

Yup. Republican lawmakers are gutless liars. Orange Jesus ain't much better.

 

[WheelieAddict]

This isn't 1955 when US employers need to offer a health plan to attract employees because the US rules manufacturing in the world and can't get enough labor, and unions demanding benefits such as health care are now basically extinct. Wall mart is now the biggest employer and their employees among the most claiming govt. benefits, the govt is keeping wall mart employees healthy for wall mart's benefit. The govt is already subsidzing companies.

No employer who fails to offer healthcard benefits iz going to attract well educated and skilled workers in this dsy and age. The Wal-Mart model will not work for Google or Apple or Gendral Electric..... unless they all collude to stop providing the benefit. Unfortunately i can see exactly that happening.

The Government has no legitimate place being involved in health care. It never has.

Yes it does, general welfare.

 

[WheelieAddict]

Well,

The GOP has whined about Obamacare (which I didn't want and I think it sucks) for six years.

Where was their plan ?

I mean honestly.....this is hysterical.

No plan, no concept of a plan, nothing........

Yup. Republican lawmakers are gutless liars. Orange Jesus ain't much better.

Their Mango Messiah is failing. Bigly.

 

[Jarlaxle]

It comes right after the part where it authorizes the Congress to maintain an air force.

To ylu thzt mskez Healthczre legal. To me thzt mskez the USAF ILLEGAL.

Is that even ENGLISH?!

 

[debbiedowner]

Good for business no more major health care expense in salary. They can still offer their own health care plan if they like or a supplement.

So, not only do I lose my health insurance, but I lose that portion of my compensation as well? Sweet deal. What employee wouldn't just LOVE that? No company us,going to offer gealth coversge if the Government tells them they don't have to.

But the larger companies never had health insurance mandated before obamacare and they all provided health insurance to recruit and keep employee's and probably still will. What I see this effecting is employer's under 50.