The Gold and Silver Thread

1) Strengthening dollar (the EU, British pound, and Japanese Yen are all a mess)
2) Central banks may decide to sell gold - they can collapse the price in about 10 seconds by selling hundreds of tonnes with the click of a mouse. (yes tonnes!! not ounces)
3) Miners are producing more gold today than any time in history.
4) all bull markets eventually run out of steam

What if Bernanke goes QE3?

I think it's already baked in the cake....

If that's true, I'd love to be short gold in the event that he announces he ISN'T going with QE3.

Otherwise, I still think gold has some upside with a minimum downside. You have to consider the fact that there's no historical precedent to go on about the Fed effectively exiting their asset holdings timely enough to avoid what would be pretty bad price inflation. We've never seen a balance sheet like this one in HISTORY.
 
From what I understand, the Central banks that are buying are India, China, Russia and other emerging markets. Developed nations Central bankers are net sellers of gold.

Keep in mind gold is rarely consumed--almost all of the gold ever mined remains in use as jewelry or as bars in bank vaults. That's a lot-o-gold!!

The gold market is actually pretty small. It doesn't take much to move gold. We could bang down gold $50 in a heartbeat if we wanted to.

And silver is much, much, much thinner.

FTR, I don't think QE3 is baked into the cake. If the Bernank announced QE3, I think gold would be at $2000 almost instantly.
 
Last edited:

They have played that margin requirement card to many times. It now has little effect. Libya had the largest negative effect on gold for the last couple of days.

Central banks are now buying even more gold. This is not the top by a long shot. Some day at least a year from now the central banks may have acquired enough gold to do a coordinated dump along with an interest rate hike to crash gold & scare people back into their paper currency.
 
Last edited:
Silver has broken $40. Gold is down $150 from the intraday top yesterday.

Support for silver is $39. If you are into Fibonaccis, gold's 50% retracement is at $1730. So we are getting close as sellers panic.
 
The CME jacked up margin requirements on gold after the close. Gold fell $8 on the news.

You've really got to wonder about the CME. They contribute to volatility like this.
 
I heard some technical guys saying how Gold went parabolic at 1600 and they think it is going to retrace at least back to that level...Soon. Then I wonder about the fib number once it gets to that point.
 
I heard some technical guys saying how Gold went parabolic at 1600 and they think it is going to retrace at least back to that level...Soon. Then I wonder about the fib number once it gets to that point.

It will likely get close to 1600 because that is the 100 day moving average. It has bounced off of that moving average many times over the past 2 years. It just seems extreme dollar wise this time because it went up to far to fast. Gold is up $400 in a month, so if it only comes back $300 it is no big deal. Just your average correction.
 
I heard some technical guys saying how Gold went parabolic at 1600 and they think it is going to retrace at least back to that level...Soon. Then I wonder about the fib number once it gets to that point.

I was looking at that today. The 50% retracement is at $1733. The 62% is at $1675 (I believe).
 
Gold brushed $1700 early this morning. It has now fallen 11% in three days.

I think we are not far from the bottom in gold. Bernanke's speech tomorrow is a wildcard, however.

Silver went to $38.60, which is a bit below the lower band of its upward sloping channel. It has since bounced. We'll see if it holds. The next level of support for silver is $35-$36, which represents the bottom of a powerful, multi-year trend.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Personally, I feel that Bernanke's speech on Friday will have little or no effect on market psychology or direction. He's not going to announce another QE program or other large program. He's going to speak in vague generalities. The FED has few options.

I like what former Vice Chairman of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, Alan Blinder, said:
"The Fed has run out of the strong tools, and is turning to weak ones. When you’re fighting in a foxhole and you’ve used up the machine guns and hand grenades, then you pull out the sword and start throwing rocks."

Maybe Helicopter Ben can throw a few rocks? :lol: Either way, I don't expect anything earth shattering come Friday.
 
15th post
Zander gets one right in 13 years, but how does his investments stack up against Ron Paul's over that same period?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjwOT8pmydE"]Peter Shiff on Ron Paul's Investments.[/ame]
 
I did some analytics on the gold bull market and the sell-off this week.

Since the bull market began in 2001, there have been four occasions when gold has moved 18% to 23% above the 150-day moving average line which were then followed by severe corrections. The periods of the significant moves higher were

Oct 05-May 06
Sept 07-Mar 08
Aug 09-Dec 09
July 11-Aug 11.

On three of the four occasions, gold bounced off the 150 DMA, consolidated, then broke to new highs. (The other time, it bounced off the 150 DMA then moved higher without consolidating.) The returns from the break-out to the blow-off top were as follows.

05/06 – 49%
07/08 – 48%
2009 – 25%
2011 – 21%

Interestingly, the return was lower for this latest ramp but the time was compressed compared to the other three occasions.

Inevitably, the market corrected. On all three prior occasions, the market pulled back to the 150 DMA. The corrections preceding a significant bounce were as follows

May-June/06 (1 month) – 26%
March 2007 (1 week) – 12%
December 2009 – 12%

Thus far, gold has corrected 11%. A 12% correction from the top would put gold at $1670-$1680.

In each case, after the sharp declines, there was a bounce. Returns during the bounces were as follows

June-July 06 – 25%
March 08 – 5%
January 10 – 8%

In 2008 and 2010, the market ultimately went lower after the initial bounce. In 2006, after the bounce, the price approached the low but did not break it. The declines after the initial bounces were as follows

July-October 2006 – 17%
March-May 2008 – 11%
January-February 2010 – 11%

On the Fibonacci levels, the retracements from the highs were as follows

05/06 – Sold off hard then bounced right at the 76% retracement level.
07/08 – Initially bounced at the 38% level then went through the 50% level but did not hit the 62% level.
2009 – Sold off hard then bounced at the 62%. Eventually approached but did not hit the 76% level.

Where are we today?

This morning, gold bounced right at the 62% level at $1704. The 76% level is at $1662.

The only time when gold broke through the 76% retracement level was during the Financial Crisis, when it briefly retraced all the gains from the 07/08 ramp in October then, it rose nearly 50% and approached new highs a few months later.

Using the Fibonacci levels, we can retrace the bounces from the low to the previous highs. These are the returns from peak to trough, and the retracement levels from the intermediate term low to the previous high.

2006 – 26% decline, just below a 76% retracement (about 70%)
2008 – 18% decline, 76% retracement
2010 – 15% decline, 123% retracement

Thus, if we are mapping out a trading strategy going forward, it would look something like this.

The 62% retracement level is $1704, which was hit this morning. A 76% retracement level is at $1660. $1660 is a 13% decline from the top, which approximates the 12% decline of the last two peaks. So a fairly good low is $1660-$1680. We can approximate a near-term bottom of $1660-$1700.

A bounce of 5%-8% would not be unexpected. A 5% bounce of the lows this morning – the 62% retracement level – puts us at $1790. An 8% bounce of $1660 also puts us at $1790. This morning, after hitting $1704, gold rallied 4% to $1770. That may be enough to put in a near-term top before it heads lower. We will see.

An 11% decline from $1790 then puts us at $1595, which would represent a 16.5% decline from the $1913 top on August 23. This is smack-dab in the middle of the 15% and 18% declines of the past two occasions. We would then expect the price to rise to at least the $1820-$1840 level as losses are retraced. Then we will see from there.

So if the past is prologue, this is what we would expect to see.

• A bounce to $1790
• A decline to $1595
• A bounce back to $1820-$1840
• A pullback and consolidation, then an assault on the old highs.

Price targets are approximate. I blew out of my silver trading position this afternoon as gold approached $1770. A 4% bounce from the lows is good enough for me. I closed out my trading position earning 0.002% over the past two weeks, certainly not worth eating the tremendous volatility where within six trading sessions, silver rose 9%, fell 12.5%, then bounced 4%. I retain a small core position in silver.

Of course, this framework is merely a guide. One should not trade by this. The market can and will do anything. Markets will do anything they want. The past doesnÂ’t repeat itself precisely. If it did, this job would be easy, not extraordinarily difficult as it is sometimes.
 
The technical gurus are saying at least $1500 in the short term.


You always have to watch for the signs of conviction once you get to that point, but in the longer term they are calling for $2500 a few years out...


Toro, what I was wondering yesterday is considering that the technical annalists see gold as having gone "parabolic" after $1600, I wonder if we shouldn't also figure the fib number from THAT point (as a high) that could potentially realize itself on the down side in the short term...?
 
I did some analytics on the gold bull market and the sell-off this week.

Since the bull market began in 2001, there have been four occasions when gold has moved 18% to 23% above the 150-day moving average line which were then followed by severe corrections. The periods of the significant moves higher were

Oct 05-May 06
Sept 07-Mar 08
Aug 09-Dec 09
July 11-Aug 11.

On three of the four occasions, gold bounced off the 150 DMA, consolidated, then broke to new highs. (The other time, it bounced off the 150 DMA then moved higher without consolidating.) The returns from the break-out to the blow-off top were as follows.

05/06 – 49%
07/08 – 48%
2009 – 25%
2011 – 21%

Interestingly, the return was lower for this latest ramp but the time was compressed compared to the other three occasions.

Inevitably, the market corrected. On all three prior occasions, the market pulled back to the 150 DMA. The corrections preceding a significant bounce were as follows

May-June/06 (1 month) – 26%
March 2007 (1 week) – 12%
December 2009 – 12%

Thus far, gold has corrected 11%. A 12% correction from the top would put gold at $1670-$1680.

In each case, after the sharp declines, there was a bounce. Returns during the bounces were as follows

June-July 06 – 25%
March 08 – 5%
January 10 – 8%

In 2008 and 2010, the market ultimately went lower after the initial bounce. In 2006, after the bounce, the price approached the low but did not break it. The declines after the initial bounces were as follows

July-October 2006 – 17%
March-May 2008 – 11%
January-February 2010 – 11%

On the Fibonacci levels, the retracements from the highs were as follows

05/06 – Sold off hard then bounced right at the 76% retracement level.
07/08 – Initially bounced at the 38% level then went through the 50% level but did not hit the 62% level.
2009 – Sold off hard then bounced at the 62%. Eventually approached but did not hit the 76% level.

Where are we today?

This morning, gold bounced right at the 62% level at $1704. The 76% level is at $1662.

The only time when gold broke through the 76% retracement level was during the Financial Crisis, when it briefly retraced all the gains from the 07/08 ramp in October then, it rose nearly 50% and approached new highs a few months later.

Using the Fibonacci levels, we can retrace the bounces from the low to the previous highs. These are the returns from peak to trough, and the retracement levels from the intermediate term low to the previous high.

2006 – 26% decline, just below a 76% retracement (about 70%)
2008 – 18% decline, 76% retracement
2010 – 15% decline, 123% retracement

Thus, if we are mapping out a trading strategy going forward, it would look something like this.

The 62% retracement level is $1704, which was hit this morning. A 76% retracement level is at $1660. $1660 is a 13% decline from the top, which approximates the 12% decline of the last two peaks. So a fairly good low is $1660-$1680. We can approximate a near-term bottom of $1660-$1700.

A bounce of 5%-8% would not be unexpected. A 5% bounce of the lows this morning – the 62% retracement level – puts us at $1790. An 8% bounce of $1660 also puts us at $1790. This morning, after hitting $1704, gold rallied 4% to $1770. That may be enough to put in a near-term top before it heads lower. We will see.

An 11% decline from $1790 then puts us at $1595, which would represent a 16.5% decline from the $1913 top on August 23. This is smack-dab in the middle of the 15% and 18% declines of the past two occasions. We would then expect the price to rise to at least the $1820-$1840 level as losses are retraced. Then we will see from there.

So if the past is prologue, this is what we would expect to see.

• A bounce to $1790
• A decline to $1595
• A bounce back to $1820-$1840
• A pullback and consolidation, then an assault on the old highs.

Price targets are approximate. I blew out of my silver trading position this afternoon as gold approached $1770. A 4% bounce from the lows is good enough for me. I closed out my trading position earning 0.002% over the past two weeks, certainly not worth eating the tremendous volatility where within six trading sessions, silver rose 9%, fell 12.5%, then bounced 4%. I retain a small core position in silver.

Of course, this framework is merely a guide. One should not trade by this. The market can and will do anything. Markets will do anything they want. The past doesn’t repeat itself precisely. If it did, this job would be easy, not extraordinarily difficult as it is sometimes.

Keep up the good work. I've found some of your evaluations more reliable than many of the editorials/analysis that I've read.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom