The Geography Of WWIII

[PoliticalChic]

How serious is China about control of the South China Sea and the resources that abound there?


And...how might the United States be drawn into what occurs?


See the following from the NYTimes, last month:


9. " BEIJING —China is building a concrete runway on an island in the South China Sea’s contested waters that will be capable of handling military aircraft when finished, satellite images released Thursday show.


The first section of the runway appears like a piece of gray ribbon on an image taken last month of Fiery Cross Reef, part of the Spratly Islands, an archipelago claimed by at least three other countries. Adjacent to the runway, work is underway on an apron for taxiing and parking planes.


The runway, which is expected to be about 10,000 feet long — enough to accommodate fighter jets and surveillance aircraft — is a game changer in the competition between the United States and China in the South China Sea,....



[Note the reference to the United States?]



.... China is likely to install radar and missiles that could intimidate countries like the Philippines, an American ally, and Vietnam, which also have claims to the Spratlys, as they resupply modest military garrisons in the area.


... a series of tense encounters between American and Chinese forces on the sea and in the air, .... China claims more than 80 percent of the South China Sea, arguing that a “nine-dash line” that it drew around the waterway in the late 1940s conforms to its rights there..... a rare acknowledgment of Chinese military intentions in the South China Sea." http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/17/w...ratly-islands-satellite-images-show.html?_r=0




".... Chinese military intentions in the South China Sea."

 

[PoliticalChic]

You couldnt embarrass this Legend, youre a mere mortal.

You, a mere marble.

I didn't say I embarrassed you.

I said you did....and a fine job, too.

Im the epicenter of what you strive and fail for.

I am a gladiator, you a mere peasant who washes the blood from my sword and sharpens its steel.

"Im the epicenter of what you strive and fail for."

You're a cannoli?????

^ American Obesity at work.

Have you heard the phrase "scientia potentia est"?


It means 'knowledge is power.'

It's the reason you are not powerful.

 

[G.T.]

You couldnt embarrass this Legend, youre a mere mortal.

You, a mere marble.

I didn't say I embarrassed you.

I said you did....and a fine job, too.

Im the epicenter of what you strive and fail for.

I am a gladiator, you a mere peasant who washes the blood from my sword and sharpens its steel.

"Im the epicenter of what you strive and fail for."

You're a cannoli?????

^ American Obesity at work.

Have you heard the phrase "scientia potentia est"?


It means 'knowledge is power.'

It's the reason you are not powerful.

Correct, not merely powerful but ALL powerful. Hey, youre right as often as a broken clock sometimes - nice!

 

[PoliticalChic]

10. There is, of course, an historical enmity between China and Japan. Should China impose sovereignty, control, and restrictions on the South China Sea....


"The Japanese interest in the South China Sea...two-fold...Oil...But the greater interest was in the South China Sea's role as a thorourghfare for trade with Europe and the Middle East....arguably the most important stretch of water for Japan, bar none....the lifeline along which traveled more than 90% of the oil and liquefied natural gas together with at least 70% of the coal used.

...not just confined to the trade in energy...other cargoes...agriculture and manufactures- and when these are added to the equation it became apparent that more than a quarter of the world's seaborne trade passed through this waterway." From the novel "Dragon Strike," by Hawksley




"We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow..."
Henry John Temple, 3rd Viscount Palmerston



Will America be able to shrug and ignore these developments?


Will America ignore the mutual defense treaty it has with Japan?

 

[PoliticalChic]

A novel is being used as a source. Why can't the novelist change a few words around and create an abundance of oil for China?

I was soooo hoping one of the true imbeciles would post that, about a novel being used as a source.


That's why I provided links which backed up everything China-hand journalist Hawksley wrote.


Wow,,,,you really stuck your foot in your mouth again.

The book was written in the late 1990's about what might happen in the very beginning of the 21st Century, 2001 to be exact. Drastic changes have occurred since the time the book was written. What he imagined never happened and factors have changed so much that his imaginary scenarios will never happen. His predictions for oil production and development were so far off as to make his story line obsolete.

As all have come to expect, you are never prepared to provide any more than hot air.

Never any documentation of you bloviations.....almost as though....and this is laughable....you have some cachet that makes you an expert.

Of course, you have been embarrassed with metronomic regularity.....

Now....case in point:
"The book was written in the late 1990's about what might happen ... Drastic changes have occurred since the time the book was written. What he imagined never happened and factors have changed so much..."

See what I mean?
You face the same fate as the dirigible Hindenburg, and for the same reason.


What factors have changed?

Certainly not that China faces an energy shortage....
Certainly not that the Spratly and Paracel Islands are rich in exactly what China needs...
Certainly not that the nations listed all claim the islands.....
Certainly not that you try and try, without success, to be relevant.


And, BTW....your abject ignorance is far from a 'drastic change.'

Documentation? You are trying to pass off an 18 year old story line from an adventure novel as a thesis for reality in today's world, ignoring the changes that have occurred in global politics, energy production and distribution in those 18 years. There are far more worrisome areas of the world to be concerned about than the islands of the South China Sea being disputed with Vietnam and the Philippines or even the islands disputed with Japan.

Once again the boob jams both feet in his mouth!

This, from today's news:

"...an area home to vital global shipping lanes and believed to be rich in oil and gas deposits.

China's foreign minister told top US diplomat John Kerry on Saturday that Beijing was "unshakeable" in its defence of sovereignty, as tensions between the powers mount over Chinese island-building in strategic but disputed waters.


The United States is weighing sending warships and surveillance aircraft within 12 nautical miles -- the normal territorial zone around natural land -- of artificial islands that Beijing is building in the South China Sea.

US officials increasingly believe Washington needs to send a clear signal about China's activities around the Spratly Islands and other disputed territories, while avoiding triggering a crisis."
Beijing rebukes US over South China Sea islands row - Yahoo News

 

[PoliticalChic]

Yesterday:

"Above the South China Sea (CNN)The Chinese navy issued warnings eight times as a U.S. surveillance plane on Wednesday swooped over islands that Beijing is using to extend its zone of influence.

The series of man-made islands and the massive Chinese military build-up on them have alarmed the Pentagon, which is carrying out the surveillance flights in order to make clear the U.S. does not recognize China's territorial claims. The militarized islands have also alarmed America's regional allies.

Former CIA Deputy Director Michael Morell told CNN's Erin Burnett Wednesday night that the confrontation indicates there is "absolutely" a risk of the U.S. and China going to war sometime in the future."
Exclusive China warns U.S. surveillance plane - CNNPolitics.com



Still think it was a good idea putting this inexperienced incompetent in the Oval Office???

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Always amusing when wonks and wannabe-wonks may hay out of sabre-rattling. As if it actually matters.

US owes China a buttload of money. They're no more gonna annoy us by attacking (in any big way) lest we give em the finger over the debt.

 

[G.T.]

Always amusing when wonks and wannabe-wonks may hay out of sabre-rattling. As if it actually matters.

US owes China a buttload of money. They're no more gonna annoy us by attacking (in any big way) lest we give em the finger over the debt.

We barely owe them anything in comparison to our overall debt, and our overall debt is barely anything as compared to our overall asset valuation.

If the US was a business, we are in good standing and doing just fine.

 

[Treeshepherd]

Just as blood keeps the human organism alive, oil is the life's-blood of an industrial nation....imagine how absurd it would be for the leader of an modern nation to suggest...'Well, seeing as how much trouble and strife oil causes....our nation is going on a ten-year plan to wean ourselves off oil and all the other petroleum products.'
(Did somebody say 'Obama'??)


Contrary to the fables spread by Liberals....there are no alternatives to petroleum.

China has reduced its coal consumption by 8% in comparison to Jan-April of last year.

"China installed a record 12GW of solar power in 2013, doubling its rate of solar installations, according to preliminary figures. This is more than has ever been installed by any country in a single year and means that China installed three times more solar energy in 2013 than the total UK solar capacity." "This year, US solar panel maker SunPower Corp said it would partner with Apple Inc to build two solar power projects in China's Sichuan province with total capacity of 40 megawatts."

China has built enormous hydro projects. They're definitely looking at alternatives to petroleum. At the same time, they signed that gigantic natural gas deal with Russia's Gazprom.

Oil is oversupplied, partly due to the rise of alternatives. Denmark is now run 40% on wind. Germany is the leader in renewables. The UK is building massive offshore wind farms. California (the world's 8th largest economy by itself) is rapidly going renewable. Oil is down to like $58 a barrel, which puts deep sea drillers and shale drillers out of business. Saudi Arabia is running a deficit for the first time. Most oil exporters need to sell for >$100 a barrel to balance their budgets.

As it concerns the USA, our powers-that-be are ultimately concerned about the petrodollar. Any oil purchased from OPEC countries must be bought in US dollars, according to the agreement negotiated by President Nixon. That drastically increases world demand for dollars, and influences oil exporters to re-invest those dollars in US debt and equities. Further disruption of that system could be a root cause of WWIII.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Have you heard the phrase "scientia potentia est"? It means 'knowledge is power.' It's the reason you are not powerful.

Oh, the self irony. Let us know, dear one, when the war begins.

 

[PoliticalChic]

You, a mere marble.

I didn't say I embarrassed you.

I said you did....and a fine job, too.

Im the epicenter of what you strive and fail for.

I am a gladiator, you a mere peasant who washes the blood from my sword and sharpens its steel.

"Im the epicenter of what you strive and fail for."

You're a cannoli?????

^ American Obesity at work.

Have you heard the phrase "scientia potentia est"?


It means 'knowledge is power.'

It's the reason you are not powerful.

Correct, not merely powerful but ALL powerful. Hey, youre right as often as a broken clock sometimes - nice!

"US-China war 'inevitable' unless Washington drops demands over South China Sea
Warning from state-run China newspaper as Beijing reveals plans for development of disputed South China Sea islands."
US-China war inevitable unless Washington drops demands over South China Sea - Telegraph



Notice how seamlessly you and I work together to prove you to be a moron.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"US preparing to face down China in the South China Sea - while locals expect 'bonanza of riches' from return of American sailors"

The increasingly acrimonious relations between Beijing and Washington over the vast area of ocean indicate a rising role for the US – in defence of not only the Philippines’ stake in the waters but also of Vietnam, where 40 years ago the US was ousted in a war for which Subic Bay provided strategic support. On Monday, fresh from proclaiming the right of US ships and planes to move unmolested in waters and airspace claimed by China, the US Defence Secretary Ashton Carter was in Hanoi, listening to a Vietnamese band play “The Star Spangled Banner” and declaring: “We’re both committed to deepening our defence relationship.”
US preparing to face down China in the South China Sea - while locals expect bonanza of riches from return of American sailors - Asia - World - The Independent




Gee....what happened to those three morons who were so vociferous in denying the point made in this thread when first posted???

The silence is suddenly deafening.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Because the OP got stuffed some fifteen posts ago.

You forget easily, so I am reminding you.

 

[waltky]

Obama gonna stand up to the Chinese...

US plans to up the stakes in tense standoff with China in South China Sea
Saturday 24th October, 2015 | WASHINGTON, DC - U.S. plans to send warships or military aircraft within 12 nautical miles of China's artificial islands in the disputed South China Sea will open a tense new front in China-U.S. rivalry[/i]

Security experts have warned Washington's so-called freedom of navigation patrols must be regular to be effective, given Chinese ambitions to project maritime power deep into Southeast Asia and beyond. China is likely to resist attempts to make such U.S. actions routine, experts said, raising the political and military stakes for Washington and Beijing. China's navy could for example try to block or attempt to surround U.S. ships, they said, risking an escalation. After months of debate in Washington over the first such patrol close to the Chinese outposts since 2012, several security experts and former naval officers have said the White House might be reluctant to do them often.

U.S. allies Japan and Australia are unlikely to follow with their own direct challenges to China, despite their concerns over freedom of navigation along vital trade routes, leaving the US Navy on its own. "This cannot be a one-off," insists Ian Storey, a South China Sea expert at Singapore's Institute of Southeast Asian Studies. "The U.S. navy will have to conduct these kinds of patrols on a regular basis to reinforce their message," he said. The Obama administration is looking to test China's territorial claims to the area after months of pressure from Congress and the Pentagon. It has not given a timeframe. "I think we have been very clear - that we intend to do this," State Department spokesman Mark Toner told reporters last Monday without providing any dates.

Chinese Foreign Ministry officials have said that Beijing will "never allow any country to violate China's territorial waters and airspace in the Spratly islands in the name of protecting navigation and overflight". Under the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea, 12-nautical mile limits can't be set around man-made islands built on previously submerged reefs. China has reclaimed land on seven reefs over the last two years, four of which were completely submerged at high tide before construction began, legal scholars say. Beijing claims most of the South China Sea, putting it up against Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.

US plans to up the stakes in tense standoff with China in South China Sea

 

[Delta4Embassy]

There is an old saying: "War is God's way of teaching Americans geography."
Ambrose Bierce

And today's geography lesson will introduce the ineluctable lead-up to WWIII.




Just as blood keeps the human organism alive, oil is the life's-blood of an industrial nation....imagine how absurd it would be for the leader of an modern nation to suggest...'Well, seeing as how much trouble and strife oil causes....our nation is going on a ten-year plan to wean ourselves off oil and all the other petroleum products.'
(Did somebody say 'Obama'??)


Contrary to the fables spread by Liberals....there are no alternatives to petroleum.


Here....the facts about oil, China, and the future.....WWIII.




1. "For China the problem was particularly acute: by the turn of the century, after years of an average growth of 7 percent in demand, it was faciang a shortfall in oil of 3,500,000 tons a year and this had to be met by imports. Its efforts to find oil in home waters had been to little avail: the East China Sea produced some modest gas finds but no oil to speak of.

The best find was a huge gas reservoir off the south coast of the Hainan Island at the northern end of the South China Sea, and an 800 km. sub-marine pipeline had been constructed to pipe 2,900,000 cubic meters of gas a day to fire a power station in Hong Kong."
From the novel "Dragon Strike," by Hawksley


a. " State media says China has found more than 100 billion cubic meters of natural gas in the politically volatile South China Sea.
The natural gas was discovered at the Lingshui 17-2 gas field, 150 kilometers south of southern Hainan island. "
China says natural gas found off Hainan s shores - The Standard




2. "Onshore, the application of new drilling techniques succeeded in extracting more oil from the Daqing field in the north-east, China's most productive- indeed the north-eastern oilfields accounted for 70 % of onshore production."
From the novel "Dragon Strike," by Hawksley


a. " Annual crude oil output at Daqing Oil Field, China's largest oil field, will fall to 30 million tons by 2010, a steep drop of 18.4 million tons from last year's level, Xinhua news agency reported yesterday.

Daqing's crude output will shrink by 7 percent yearly in the following seven years. Its crude output is expected to drop to 20 million tons by 2020, said Gai Ruyin, mayor of Daqing City in Heilongjiang Province.

The report also said there is only 500 million tons of recoverable oil reserve left in the country's largest oil field,..."
China s Daqing Oil Field Passes Peak



What to do....what to do...??

'Thanks' for 'ineluctable' a new word for my vocabulary.

There are no alternatives to petroleum now because we don't yet need them so haven't developed one. Once oil runs out, we'll find an alternative real quick.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Sooner oil runs out the better. 2 mpg Hummers? Yes please.

Every warplane runs on jet fuel. There are no solar powered or electric ones, nor is there likely to be. While they did run a bomber on nuclear way back I notice most people object to nuclear reactors flying overhead.

When oil's gone, we may actually see world peace, or at least a massive change to military might.

 

[PoliticalChic]

A novel is being used as a source. Why can't the novelist change a few words around and create an abundance of oil for China?

I love it!!!!

Ramming your words down your throat!!

I posted it half a year ago....


"U.S. Navy Tests China Over Sea Claims
U.S. officials say operation was first of several to assert ‘freedom of navigation’ around the Spratlys islands"
U.S. Navy Tests China Over Sea Claims



Now....laminate this for your wallet: Never doubt me!!

 

[Camp]

A novel is being used as a source. Why can't the novelist change a few words around and create an abundance of oil for China?

I love it!!!!

Ramming your words down your throat!!

I posted it half a year ago....


"U.S. Navy Tests China Over Sea Claims
U.S. officials say operation was first of several to assert ‘freedom of navigation’ around the Spratlys islands"
U.S. Navy Tests China Over Sea Claims



Now....laminate this for your wallet: Never doubt me!!

Let us know when Japan becomes a nuclear power, Vietnam goes to war with China and the US and China find themselves on the edge of a nuclear war over the islands that are randomly claimed by a half a dozen nations. The novel you reference is about a nuclear war between China and the US over the Spratlys and the possible, but unproven oil and gas reserves they might yield after exploration and development. The Spratlys have been disputed for over a half century.
You are using a novel to promote an idea that is the basis of the novel. It is based on two decade old concepts about oil production of oil and gas during that era. The novels concepts and foundation are obsolete.

 

[waltky]

China, Vietnam moving closer together...

South China Sea row: Beijing moves closer to Hanoi
Nov 7, 2015: China and Vietnam on Friday agreed to maintain peace and jointly try to resolve the South China Sea controversy.

Chinese President Xi Jinping, who is visiting Hanoi, extended his hand of friendship to Vietnam amid rising tensions in the South China Sea ever since a US naval ship sailed into the disputed waters recently.

Xi's gesture was returned by Hanoi, which pledged to be "good neighbours" with China, and agreed to maintain peace in the South China Sea. Vietnam, the Philippines and Indonesia are in a dispute with China over some islands in the sea.

"We are willing to carry on with the good tradition of learning from each other, supporting each other, working together for the development of our two countries' socialism and the happiness of our people," Xi said in a speech to Vietnam's national assembly. The two countries agreed to avoid any acts that complicate their dispute in the sea where they have competing claims. This is the first time in 10 years that a Chinese president has visited the country. Vietnam was upset last year when China placed an oil rig in waters contested by it. This led to angry anti-Beijing protests across the country. China later moved the rig away.

Beijing needs Vietnam's friendship to avoid a situation in which countries in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations join hands against China on the issue of South China Sea islands.

South China Sea row: Beijing moves closer to Hanoi - Times of India

See also:

China's Xi says Vietnam ties can survive "disruptions"
Nov 6, 2015: China and Vietnam are good socialist neighbours with a long-shared history of revolutionary friendship and should be able to dispel and survive any "disruptions" in their relations, Chinese President Xi Jinping told Vietnam's parliament on Friday.

The two communist-led states both have competing claims in the South China Sea, which came to a head last year with Beijing's parking of an oil rig in waters off the Vietnamese coast, leading to anti-Chinese riots in Vietnam. Xi's visit is timely, aimed at rebuilding relations amid some uncertainty over what kind of leader will emerge from January's five-yearly congress of a party traditionally close to Beijing, but now receiving unprecedented Western attention.

Speaking at the National Assembly in Hanoi, Xi referred to Vietnam's independence hero Ho Chi Minh and his amity with the founder of modern China, Mao Zedong, and their similar political systems. "China and Vietnam are joined my mountains and water and the friendship between our two peoples goes back to ancient times," Xi said. "In the struggle for national independence and liberation we fought side by side and supported each other forming a tight friendship."

China pays great attention to its relations with Vietnam and wants them to continue on a stable path, Xi added. "Our two parties, countries and peoples should be staunch in their faith, help each other and proceed hand in hand, not allowing anyone to disrupt our pace," he said. "I believe ... both nations' peoples have the ability and the wisdom to dispel any disruptions."

MORE

 

[waltky]

Granny says, "Dat's right - Obama needs to rap dat sassy Chinaman onna noggin ...

Obama says China must stop land reclamation in South China Sea
Tue Nov 17, 2015 - U.S. President Barack Obama said on Wednesday China must stop land reclamation in the disputed South China Sea and reaffirmed Washington's commitment to the defense and security of the Philippines, one of the parties to the dispute.

Obama, speaking after a meeting with Philippine President Benigno Aquino on the sidelines of an Asia-Pacific summit in Manila, said he looked forward to working with all claimants to the waterway to resolve their disputes.

On Tuesday, Obama visited an American-donated coast guard cutter now owned by the Philippines, one its closest allies in the region.

Obama says China must stop land reclamation in South China Sea

See also:

'Stop complicating' South China Sea dispute, China tells Obama
Nov 18, 2015: Beijing said on Wednesday US President Barack Obama should not get involved in disputes in the South China Sea, after he demanded an end to artificial island building in the hotly contested region.

"The United States should stop playing up the South China Sea issue, stop heightening tensions in the South China Sea and stop complicating disputes in the South China Sea," Hong Lei, a foreign ministry spokesman, said at a regular press briefing in Beijing. "No country has the right to point fingers at" China's construction activities, he added. The rebuke came after Obama met with Philippine President Benigno Aquino in Manila during the annual Asia-Pacific Economic Co-operation (APEC) gathering.

Beijing has turned a series of reefs and outcrops in disputed waters into artificial islands capable of hosting facilities with military purposes, alarming other claimants. "We discussed the impact of China's land reclamation and construction activities on regional stability," Obama told reporters after meeting. "We agree on the need for bold steps to lower tensions, including pledging to halt further reclamation, new construction, and militarisation of disputed areas in the South China Sea."

APEC members the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan have rival claims to parts of the sea, which is believed to sit atop vast oil and gas resources. Beijing claims nearly all of the South China Sea, even waters approaching the coasts of its Asian neighbours.

China tells Obama to keep out of South China Sea disputes - Times of India