The Foundation of New Atheism

[Thunderbird]

The foundation of New (or is it old) Atheism is logical positivism. The petulant adolescent boys who are so devoted to atheism cling to logical positivism or some closely related ideology (scientism or materialism or reductionism).

These ideologies are seriously flawed.

Logical Positivism & the New Atheists

Five Things Science Cannot Prove (but are necessary for science to work)

The Hollow Men: Hitchens, Dawkins, and Harris

 

[Thunderbird]

Two articles by philosopher Edward Feser:

The New Philistinism - AEI

Blinded by Scientism

 

[Thunderbird]

Logical Positivism is long outdated. In 1967 philosopher John Passmore stated: “Logical positivism, then, is dead, or as dead as a philosophical movement ever becomes.”

Even A. J Ayer, one of the brightest lights of the movement, acknowledged the failure of logical positivism.

 

[Two Thumbs]

kooky

so atheists need reasons to be atheists?

other than every popular religion is Johnny come lately and their 'holy' books are heavily edited?

 

[Mac1958]

Hitchens (RIP Hitch, you're missed), Dawkins & Harris have all read and studied the Bible and Koran (among other holy books) and have always offered rational, reasonable, intelligent arguments for why they detect no evidence of a god. Faith is fine, but faith is not the same as fact.

 

[Thunderbird]

kooky

so atheists need reasons to be atheists?

Atheists do have reasons why they became atheists.

They may have been terrorized into submitting to atheism: Christian Orphans in North Korea Tortured for Their Faith in Jesus Christ

They may have been indoctrinated by the corporate media, maybe one of those anti-Christian movies of Harvey Weinstein.

 

[Two Thumbs]

kooky

so atheists need reasons to be atheists?

Atheists do have reasons why they became atheists.

They may have been terrorized into submitting to atheism: Christian Orphans in North Korea Tortured for Their Faith in Jesus Christ

They may have been indoctrinated by the corporate media, maybe one of those anti-Christian movies of Harvey Weinstein.

some of it's forced and sure there's outside influence.

but how does that explain people that go to church, having that influence, becoming athiests?

movies and TV's can't overcome the weekly and or daily routine of a faithful person.

 

[Thunderbird]

Hitchens (RIP Hitch, you're missed),

Hitchens was a loathsome, bloated war-monger.

Hitchens: "I don't think the war in Afghanistan was ruthlessly enough waged."

Nothing excited him more than bombing impoverished religious folk. Not even a good buffet.

He is only missed by neocons and their lackeys.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Hitchens (RIP Hitch, you're missed),

Hitchens was a loathsome, bloated war-monger.

Hitchens: "I don't think the war in Afghanistan was ruthlessly enough waged."

He is only missed by neocons and their lackeys.[/QUOTE]
once you are in a war, the idea is to win.

let the other poor dumb bastard die for his country

 

[alang1216]

Atheists do have reasons why they became atheists.

True in my case at least. I was not yet a teenager when I thought why would one God allow so many religions to exist? They couldn't all be right since they were so different. I couldn't believe a loving God would allow someone to be sent to hell because they were born into the wrong religion and never learned about the 'right' one. The only logical conclusion, at least to me, was that they were ALL wrong. Since that day, I've never found a reason to change my mind. .

 

[Meriweather]

True in my case at least. I was not yet a teenager when I thought why would one God allow so many religions to exist? They couldn't all be right since they were so different. I couldn't believe a loving God would allow someone to be sent to hell because they were born into the wrong religion and never learned about the 'right' one. The only logical conclusion, at least to me, was that they were ALL wrong. Since that day, I've never found a reason to change my mind. .

Catholic teaching is that God doesn't allow someone to be sent to hell because they were born into the wrong religion. Whoever is teaching differently is doing everyone a great disservice.

God is love, and this love reaches out to everyone, wherever they are. It is likely one religion is more right than others, which would put them approximately (comparatively speaking) one millimeter closer to God than the others. This is a distance God can easily bridge.

 

[alang1216]

True in my case at least. I was not yet a teenager when I thought why would one God allow so many religions to exist? They couldn't all be right since they were so different. I couldn't believe a loving God would allow someone to be sent to hell because they were born into the wrong religion and never learned about the 'right' one. The only logical conclusion, at least to me, was that they were ALL wrong. Since that day, I've never found a reason to change my mind. .

Catholic teaching is that God doesn't allow someone to be sent to hell because they were born into the wrong religion. Whoever is teaching differently is doing everyone a great disservice.

God is love, and this love reaches out to everyone, wherever they are. It is likely one religion is more right than others, which would put them approximately (comparatively speaking) one millimeter closer to God than the others. This is a distance God can easily bridge.

I like your views, I wish more Christians were inclusive as opposed to being exclusive.

I've always seen the Bible as a buffet table, there is so much there, you can use it to support ANY view. For example, John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." I'm guessing every religion has something similar in it. Otherwise why have any religions at all?

 

[Thunderbird]

Atheists do have reasons why they became atheists.

True in my case at least. I was not yet a teenager when I thought why would one God allow so many religions to exist? They couldn't all be right since they were so different.

Maybe many of them possess partial truths.

I couldn't believe a loving God would allow someone to be sent to hell because they were born into the wrong religion and never learned about the 'right' one. The only logical conclusion, at least to me, was that they were ALL wrong.

C. S. Lewis said: "The gates of Hell are locked from the inside." Maybe Hell is where we go after death if we choose hate, revenge, selfishness, and cruelty.

 

[Meriweather]

I like your views, I wish more Christians were inclusive as opposed to being exclusive.

I've always seen the Bible as a buffet table, there is so much there, you can use it to support ANY view. For example, John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." I'm guessing every religion has something similar in it. Otherwise why have any religions at all?

If we take Jesus at his word, then no one comes to the Father except through him. He defines his role, which can reasonably be taken to mean he has a role (whether to Muslims, Jews, atheists, Christians, etc.) to guide all in their way to the Father. That some Christians lack faith in Jesus' role/ability to guide everyone to the Father (despite the name of their faith in God) is sad, perhaps even appalling.

It is my opinion that the first admonishment Jesus has for Christians is their portrayal of him as a barrier to the Father rather than as the greatest guide available to all the world. I believe Christians should be telling fellow believers, "On your way to God, if you are alert, you are going to meet up with a wonderful being who will safely see you on The Way."

Somehow, some Christians, lost sight of the Great Commission to tell Good News and instead resorted to threats. People searching for God should give everyone of every faith reason to rejoice. Christians should be especially joyful that everyone will find help in Christ, whether they recognize him--or his help--or not. What Jesus cares about is getting all who are searching--no matter what their faith--to the Father.

 

[alang1216]

C. S. Lewis said: "The gates of Hell are locked from the inside." Maybe Hell is where we go after death if we choose hate, revenge, selfishness, and cruelty.

Do you know anyone who is 100% evil or 100% good? Even Hitler loved his mother and his dog. What's the cutoff for hell, 90% good, 51% good? Since no one is perfect why shouldn't we all end up in heaven. A Christian would say that Jesus was sacrificed for our sins. What about those that are not Christian?

 

[alang1216]

I like your views, I wish more Christians were inclusive as opposed to being exclusive.

I've always seen the Bible as a buffet table, there is so much there, you can use it to support ANY view. For example, John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." I'm guessing every religion has something similar in it. Otherwise why have any religions at all?

If we take Jesus at his word, then no one comes to the Father except through him. He defines his role, which can reasonably be taken to mean he has a role (whether to Muslims, Jews, atheists, Christians, etc.) to guide all in their way to the Father. That some Christians lack faith in Jesus' role/ability to guide everyone to the Father (despite the name of their faith in God) is sad, perhaps even appalling.

It is my opinion that the first admonishment Jesus has for Christians is their portrayal of him as a barrier to the Father rather than as the greatest guide available to all the world. I believe Christians should be telling fellow believers, "On your way to God, if you are alert, you are going to meet up with a wonderful being who will safely see you on The Way."

Somehow, some Christians, lost sight of the Great Commission to tell Good News and instead resorted to threats. People searching for God should give everyone of every faith reason to rejoice. Christians should be especially joyful that everyone will find help in Christ, whether they recognize him--or his help--or not. What Jesus cares about is getting all who are searching--no matter what their faith--to the Father.

Is this Catholic dogma? You sound more like a Unitarian Universalist.

 

[Meriweather]

Do you know anyone who is 100% evil or 100% good? Even Hitler loved his mother and his dog. What's the cutoff for hell, 90% good, 51% good? Since no one is perfect why shouldn't we all end up in heaven. A Christian would say that Jesus was sacrificed for our sins. What about those that are not Christian?

The New Testament comments on chaff being burnt, about gold being tested in fire. Apparently the experience is so intense there is a wailing and gnashing of teeth. Perhaps we can imagine Hitler going through this fire, with the only part left of him is that which loves his dog and his mother. We can also wonder whether the love he had for mother and dog was golden enough to withstand fire, or whether he loved evil more.

 

[pinqy]

Do you know anyone who is 100% evil ?

I assume you mean "besides Justin Bieber,"

 

[pinqy]

I like your views, I wish more Christians were inclusive as opposed to being exclusive.

I've always seen the Bible as a buffet table, there is so much there, you can use it to support ANY view. For example, John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." I'm guessing every religion has something similar in it. Otherwise why have any religions at all?

If we take Jesus at his word, then no one comes to the Father except through him. He defines his role, which can reasonably be taken to mean he has a role (whether to Muslims, Jews, atheists, Christians, etc.) to guide all in their way to the Father. That some Christians lack faith in Jesus' role/ability to guide everyone to the Father (despite the name of their faith in God) is sad, perhaps even appalling.

It is my opinion that the first admonishment Jesus has for Christians is their portrayal of him as a barrier to the Father rather than as the greatest guide available to all the world. I believe Christians should be telling fellow believers, "On your way to God, if you are alert, you are going to meet up with a wonderful being who will safely see you on The Way."

Somehow, some Christians, lost sight of the Great Commission to tell Good News and instead resorted to threats. People searching for God should give everyone of every faith reason to rejoice. Christians should be especially joyful that everyone will find help in Christ, whether they recognize him--or his help--or not. What Jesus cares about is getting all who are searching--no matter what their faith--to the Father.

Is this Catholic dogma? You sound more like a Unitarian Universalist.

The Catholic viewpoint is that there is One True Church, and the Catholic Church is the earthly representative. The Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox churches have apostolic succession and so are also considered true churches. But Protestants are not considered to have valid apostolic succession and are considered flawed, but with much truth. For non-Christian religions and atheists, the Catholic teaching is that you cannot try to do good and find God without God helping. So non-Christians who are truly devoted may be able to enter Heaven. Basically, God can do whatever He wants and save whoever He wants.

 

[Meriweather]

Is this Catholic dogma? You sound more like a Unitarian Universalist.

I fail at being a Universalist because I believe people can choose to remain a part from God for eternity, whereas true Universalists are so optimistic they see everyone choosing to dwell with God.

My views are more based on Catholic dogma. The Catechism of the Catholic Church points out the Covenant God has with the Jews. Even so, Catholic dogma teaches that the Church has a responsibility to spread the Gospel, even among the Jews. It notes that the Church has no responsibility to condemn any other faith. The Church can promise to teach the Way of Eternal life, but it has NO authority to announce condemnation of other faiths. We proclaim what Christ taught and those who follow another way we leave to the love and mercy of God. That is Catholic dogma. The Church has its authority to spread the Good News, and God retains His power and authority to reach those whom the Church, for whatever reason, fails to reach.

Keep in mind that while the Catholic Church sees fellow Christians as brothers and sisters in Christ, the Church cannot absolutely assure non-Catholics of eternal life. But even more, we cannot/will not say they will not have eternal life. That is left to God, whom we believe to be loving and merciful.