The first official Death Panel - IPAB

[NYcarbineer]

Logical fallacy. Try to stick to the subject at hand and make your points like a grown up.

You don't want to pay for anything that an adult can't otherwise afford. You made it the topic.

Should seniors be left to die if they do not have the resources to pay for the healthcare they need?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Better than nothing. Which is what the GOP would give us.

Aren't you the least bit embarassed that you want things given to you?

You should be. The whole point of becoming an adult is DOING THINGS YOURSELF. PAYING FOR YOURSELF.

What a loser.

Then you logically oppose public education, because public education is made available to people who cannot pay for it themselves.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Yes. Or not. I don't care. But my bs/loser o meter starts to click when someone starts shrieking about what they think should be given to them.

Do you take the tax deductions the government GIVES to you because you have kids?

 

[koshergrl]

Better than nothing. Which is what the GOP would give us.

Aren't you the least bit embarassed that you want things given to you?

You should be. The whole point of becoming an adult is DOING THINGS YOURSELF. PAYING FOR YOURSELF.

What a loser.

Then you logically oppose public education, because public education is made available to people who cannot pay for it themselves.

We're not talking about public education, loser.

 

[koshergrl]

Yes. Or not. I don't care. But my bs/loser o meter starts to click when someone starts shrieking about what they think should be given to them.

Do you take the tax deductions the government GIVES to you because you have kids?

We're not talking about my kids or my personal taxes. Try to stay on topic. You appear to be melting.

 

[VaYank5150]

Yes. Or not. I don't care. But my bs/loser o meter starts to click when someone starts shrieking about what they think should be given to them.

But since we all, as taxpayers, PAY for Medicare, who specifically is asking for anything to be "given" to them?

I'm thinking your "bs/loser o meter" should be pegged right about now....

 

[driveby]

Price:



“The new health care law gives a board of fifteen unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats an incredible and disturbing level of decision-making authority over the quality and accessibility of health care for America’s seniors,” said Chairman Price. “The Independent Payment Advisory Board would have the power to determine what to pay doctors to provide treatments and services under Medicare. Denial of payment for care would ultimately lead to the denial of care for our seniors. That is an unacceptable vision for the future of Medicare."



"We have to pass it to find out what's in it" - Nancy Pelosi


Enjoy ...

I know you won't answer this, but maybe someone will.

With the reality of limited resources to spend on senior healthcare,

who among you has a plan that would not ultimately cause some seniors to not be able to receive some healthcare because of the cost,

that they could not pay for, and the government could not pay for?

In other words, who among you has a plan that does NOT include some form of so-called 'death panel'?

I think they all do, but it was you and your ilk screaming at the top of your lungs that "death panels" was the lie of the year. Now you're all changing to " well private insurance does it too ".......

 

[koshergrl]

Logical fallacy. Try to stick to the subject at hand and make your points like a grown up.

You don't want to pay for anything that an adult can't otherwise afford. You made it the topic.

Should seniors be left to die if they do not have the resources to pay for the healthcare they need?

More logical fallacy. From beginning to end.

I didn't say anything about not wanting to pay for anything.

I didn't make that the topic, since I never said it or implied it.

And so far you've tried to make this about education, seniors, and heaven knows what else. Can't seem to focus, can you?

 

[koshergrl]

Yes. Or not. I don't care. But my bs/loser o meter starts to click when someone starts shrieking about what they think should be given to them.

But since we all, as taxpayers, PAY for Medicare, who specifically is asking for anything to be "given" to them?

I'm thinking your "bs/loser o meter" should be pegged right about now....

You don't PAY what you get BACK so technically, you don't really PAY at all.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Price:



“The new health care law gives a board of fifteen unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats an incredible and disturbing level of decision-making authority over the quality and accessibility of health care for America’s seniors,” said Chairman Price. “The Independent Payment Advisory Board would have the power to determine what to pay doctors to provide treatments and services under Medicare. Denial of payment for care would ultimately lead to the denial of care for our seniors. That is an unacceptable vision for the future of Medicare."



"We have to pass it to find out what's in it" - Nancy Pelosi


Enjoy ...

Like EVERY insurance bureaucracy doesn't ALREADY have a panel of dedicated bureaucrats in place whose job function is to deny claims.

I'd rather have a public bureaucrat making the decision based on public rules than a private bureaucrat making the decisions based on this quarters profit projections.

You're certainly entitled to that opinion and i can respect that opinion. The purpose of this thread was to show that the death panel does exist under Obamacare. Now liberals are quickly changing the argument to "the gubment death panel is better than the private insurance death panel".

The big difference is whether to call those bureaucrats 'claims adjusters' or 'death panel appointees'.

I prefer 'claims adjusters', but I don't really like political sensationalizing.

 

[VaYank5150]

Yes. Or not. I don't care. But my bs/loser o meter starts to click when someone starts shrieking about what they think should be given to them.

But since we all, as taxpayers, PAY for Medicare, who specifically is asking for anything to be "given" to them?

I'm thinking your "bs/loser o meter" should be pegged right about now....

You don't PAY what you get BACK so technically, you don't really PAY at all.

I have been paying in for 29 years and have yet to get a penny back from Medicare. And if the GOP has there way, there will be no Medicare by the time I am old enough to be covered, so don't tell me I'm not paying...

 

[saveliberty]

I know you won't answer this, but maybe someone will.

With the reality of limited resources to spend on senior healthcare,

who among you has a plan that would not ultimately cause some seniors to not be able to receive some healthcare because of the cost,

that they could not pay for, and the government could not pay for?

In other words, who among you has a plan that does NOT include some form of so-called 'death panel'?

Then its really not affordable healthcare for all is it?

 

[VaYank5150]

Price:



“The new health care law gives a board of fifteen unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats an incredible and disturbing level of decision-making authority over the quality and accessibility of health care for America’s seniors,” said Chairman Price. “The Independent Payment Advisory Board would have the power to determine what to pay doctors to provide treatments and services under Medicare. Denial of payment for care would ultimately lead to the denial of care for our seniors. That is an unacceptable vision for the future of Medicare."


"We have to pass it to find out what's in it" - Nancy Pelosi


Enjoy ...

Just as an update, the IPAB does NOT have any of the powers outlined in this piece..the powers stated are left up to BOTH houses of Congress...

Each September 1, the IPAB must submit a draft proposal to the secretary of health and human services. On January 15 of the following year (beginning with 2014), the board must submit a proposal to Congress. If the board fails to submit a proposal on deadline, the DHHS must itself submit a proposal. Congress must consider the proposal under an expedited procedure. Congress cannot consider any amendment to the proposal that does not meet the same cost-reduction goals, unless both houses of Congress (and three fifths of the Senate) vote to waive this requirement. If Congress fails to adopt a substitute provision complying with the statute by August 15, the DHHS must implement the board's proposal.

MMS: Error

 

[Inthemiddle]

Oh, so it didn't fix all the mean things insurance companies do? Good to know, thanks ....

In my opinion, it scarcely fixes any problems. But there's no reason to misrepresent it or the arguments in support of it.

 

[squinch]

Are you shitting me? The death panel card has been replayed? I thought that went the way of Palin.

 

[Greenbeard]

Swore there would be no "death panels" and declared all such claims were lies, hysteria, etc.

The death panel claims are and remain lies and hysteria. Since some of you forget what a death panel was supposed to be, let's consult the source:

"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. "​

Are you under the impression the IPAB is empowered to make a "subjective judgment of [a Medicare beneficiary's] 'level of productivity in society,'" to determine "whether they are worthy of health care"?

An unelected panel of bureaucrats (the death panel) decide what gets paid for and what doesn't. Denial of payment means denial of care.

That's a pretty dumb definition of "death panel." As has already been pointed out, that's how every insurance company works: they make coverage decisions. In fact, that's how Medicare has worked for years: private companies decide at a regional level what is and isn't covered. A short read from MedPAC: "An introduction to how Medicare makes coverage decisions".

"There are several ways for services to be covered under Medicare. The vast majority of explicit coverage decisions are developed by Medicare’s contractors. These decisions, referred to as local medical review policies (LMRPs), apply only to specific services provided in the contractor’s regional jurisdiction. Contractors also can make individual decisions about the coverage of a particular service for a beneficiary."​

Semi valid except insurance doesn't roll under the guise of "healthcare for all" and Obamacare was supposed to fix all the things the mean insurance companies have been doing.

Bouncing from the far right's talking points to the far left's is no way to go through life.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK-Dqj4fHmM]No way[/ame]

 

[Sarah G]

Price:



“The new health care law gives a board of fifteen unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats an incredible and disturbing level of decision-making authority over the quality and accessibility of health care for America’s seniors,” said Chairman Price. “The Independent Payment Advisory Board would have the power to determine what to pay doctors to provide treatments and services under Medicare. Denial of payment for care would ultimately lead to the denial of care for our seniors. That is an unacceptable vision for the future of Medicare."



"We have to pass it to find out what's in it" - Nancy Pelosi


Enjoy ...

Like EVERY insurance bureaucracy doesn't ALREADY have a panel of dedicated bureaucrats in place whose job function is to deny claims.

I'd rather have a public bureaucrat making the decision based on public rules than a private bureaucrat making the decisions based on this quarters profit projections.

Exactly. Death panels have been ongoing and they deny according to your ability to pay. Their job is to completely bankrupt you then when there is nothing left, tell you there is nothing more they can do.

 

[Full-Auto]

Are you shitting me? The death panel card has been replayed? I thought that went the way of Palin. Hopefully they will target only republicans.

They are dumb ass. Someone has to pay the bills and we know it will not be you.

 

[The T]

Are you shitting me? The death panel card has been replayed? I thought that went the way of Palin. Hopefully they will target only republicans.

Look up IPAB retard.

 

[daveman]

Well, this is what ccentral planning is all about. It's as if the progressives want to ignore history in favor of their belief that "they" can do it again and make it work better. Fools, the whole lot of them.

They won't stop until they have it all.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to vote Democrat.