The FED Inspector General Has No Idea Where The 9 Trillion Dollars Went

[sealybobo]

So ... why doesn't Russo or anyone else file a lawsuit in federal court pointing out that the IRS is unconstitutional, and have the Supreme Court overturn the tax code?

Laws are challenged all the time and overturned for violating the constitution. We have a lot of strict constructualists on the Supreme Court now that I'm sure would be happy to overturn an unconstitutional law.

Bottom line is that they have this so vague and muttled that I don't believe it was intended that our labor ever be taxed. But they did it anyways and they used slick talking lawyers like Toro who think they know everything.

They don't. They only know what they were told.

And you know what you know for some reason other than what you were told in some internet video?

I have a hard time with people who can't even admit that there is a possibility this might be true. I don't know for sure if I'm right and I wouldn't be willing to bet my life savings that what I'm saying is right, but you probably would bet yours, and you haven't even seen the entire dvd. And since there is no other dvd like it, I know you have only gotten one side of this story.

So of course I started out as skeptical as you. But then after hearing more and more information, I started to realize it is true, the income tax is a scam, and all the politicians are in on it.

I find it funny you guys think ALL politicians are corrupt but you can't believe that 99% of them know this is true and don't do anything about it. Of course they don't. Anyone who tries gets a big fat ruined career.

So would you be willing to bet your life savings that I'm wrong here?

 

[sealybobo]

So ... why doesn't Russo or anyone else file a lawsuit in federal court pointing out that the IRS is unconstitutional, and have the Supreme Court overturn the tax code?

Laws are challenged all the time and overturned for violating the constitution. We have a lot of strict constructualists on the Supreme Court now that I'm sure would be happy to overturn an unconstitutional law.

Bottom line is that they have this so vague and muttled that I don't believe it was intended that our labor ever be taxed. But they did it anyways and they used slick talking lawyers like Toro who think they know everything.

They don't. They only know what they were told.

And you know what you know for some reason other than what you were told in some internet video?

I've heard both sides arguments and made up my mind. You've only really heard one side of the argument, and little bits and pieces of my side.

 

[Iriemon]

I haven't heard enough information to make me believe it or not.

I have heard enough information that I'm convinced about the IRS and Feds.

So are you actually sitting there saying there is no law that requires you to pay taxes?

the statutes and codes of the IRS as written aren’t officially U.S. law; and even if they were, they don’t define liability and income such that any normal working American owes taxes

Where are you getting this? Of course they are. It is in the United States Code -- the laws of the United States. Passed by Congress. Look it up.

The fact is no provision of the Internal Revenue Code requires anyone to file or pay income taxes.

What does this means:

26 U.S.C. § 7201. Attempt to evade or defeat tax

Any person who willfully attempts in any manner to evade or defeat any tax imposed by this title or the payment thereof shall, in addition to other penalties provided by law, be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $100,000 ($500,000 in the case of a corporation), or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both, together with the costs of prosecution.

You dodged the question last time, but I'll ask again. Are you really arguing that the law that requires you to pay "any tax" doesn't apply to income taxes? You point being that the income tax is not "any tax"?

This tax, unlike other internal revenue taxes, is strictly (censored voluntary). This is because a compulsory income tax would violate the Constitution's three taxing clauses, the Bill of Rights and the 16th Amendment-all of which impose restrictions on the government's power and ability to tax income in ways few Americans understand.

If that were the case a Court would decide that, and the law would be stricken from the books. That has happened often. It never happened with the income tax. It is therefore law, regardless of your opinion that it is unconstitutional.

So, in order for the income tax not to be unconstitutional it had to be written on a non*compulsory basis. However, in order to deceive Americans of this, as well as provide federal courts and the IRS with deceptive passages on which to hang illegal prosecutions and illegal seizures, the Internal Revenue Code was written to make paying income taxes appear mandatory. The government succeeded in doing this by tricking the public into believing that those enforcement provisions of the Code, that apply to other, non-voluntary taxes (such as alcohol and tobacco taxes), also apply to income taxes when in fact, they do not. However, despite such trickery, the IRS still admits that our "income tax laws"' are purely VOLUNTARY!

What is the basis for the position that "any taxes" in the law does not apply to income taxes. Where does the law say that?

Indeed, every official IRS pronouncement on this issue admits to the voluntary nature of the income tax, as the following quotations and government documents prove.

Absolutely false.

"The IRS' primary task is to collect taxes under a voluntary compliance system." (emphasis added)

- Jerome Kurtz
Internal Revenue Annual Report, 1980

"Our tax system is based on individual self*-assessment and voluntary compliance." (emphasis added)

- Mortimer Caplin
Internal Revenue Audit Manual, 1975

"Each year American taxpayers voluntarily file their tax returns and make a special effort to pay the taxes they owe." (emphasis added)

-Johnnie M. Walters
Internal Revenue 1040 Booklet, 1971

"Because the American tax system is based on voluntary compliance and self-assessment, each year taxpayers make their own determination of their tax liability' and file returns reporting the correct tax. (emphasis added)

- WELCOME to the United States of America
Form 1-357, Re. 7-19-80, the United States

Department of Justice, Immigration
and Naturalization Service

Mafia Chap1

Funny you, being a law stickler, should rely on all those quotes, when not one is a law.

But it is true our system is based on voluntary compliance in submitting information. When it is tax time, IRS agents don't show up at your door and seize your records and send you a tax bill. You fill out the forms and submit what you claim you owe. That doesn't mean that the obligation to pay a tax due under the law is voluntary.

And I've cited the law several times that says what happens if you don't.

 

[Iriemon]

Here's the law saying you have to file a return:

§ 7203. Willful failure to file return, supply information, or pay tax
Any person required under this title to pay any estimated tax or tax, or required by this title or by regulations made under authority thereof to make a return, keep any records, or supply any information, who willfully fails to pay such estimated tax or tax, make such return, keep such records, or supply such information, at the time or times required by law or regulations, shall, in addition to other penalties provided by law, be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $25,000 ($100,000 in the case of a corporation), or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both, together with the costs of prosecution. In the case of any person with respect to whom there is a failure to pay any estimated tax, this section shall not apply to such person with respect to such failure if there is no addition to tax under section 6654 or 6655 with respect to such failure. In the case of a willful violation of any provision of section 6050I, the first sentence of this section shall be applied by substituting “felony” for “misdemeanor” and “5 years” for “1 year”.

US CODE: Title 26,7203. Willful failure to file return, supply information, or pay tax

 

[Iriemon]

Other law saying you have to pay taxes:

§ 7202. Willful failure to collect or pay over tax
Any person required under this title to collect, account for, and pay over any tax imposed by this title who willfully fails to collect or truthfully account for and pay over such tax shall, in addition to other penalties provided by law, be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $10,000, or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both, together with the costs of prosecution.

US CODE: Title 26,7202. Willful failure to collect or pay over tax

 

[Iriemon]

Here's a whole list of laws that talk about having to pay taxes:

US CODE: Title 26,PART I—GENERAL PROVISIONS


TITLE 26 > Subtitle F > CHAPTER 75 > Subchapter A > PART IPART I—GENERAL PROVISIONS

§ 7201. Attempt to evade or defeat tax
§ 7202. Willful failure to collect or pay over tax
§ 7203. Willful failure to file return, supply information, or pay tax
§ 7204. Fraudulent statement or failure to make statement to employees
§ 7205. Fraudulent withholding exemption certificate or failure to supply information
§ 7206. Fraud and false statements
§ 7207. Fraudulent returns, statements, or other documents
§ 7208. Offenses relating to stamps
§ 7209. Unauthorized use or sale of stamps
§ 7210. Failure to obey summons
§ 7211. False statements to purchasers or lessees relating to tax
§ 7212. Attempts to interfere with administration of internal revenue laws
§ 7213. Unauthorized disclosure of information
§ 7213A. Unauthorized inspection of returns or return information
§ 7214. Offenses by officers and employees of the United States
§ 7215. Offenses with respect to collected taxes
§ 7216. Disclosure or use of information by preparers of returns
§ 7217. Prohibition on executive branch influence over taxpayer audits and other investigations

 

[Iriemon]

Did you? Then explain the difference. Sometimes i get the feeling you guys know there is a difference yet you pretend not to, until someone comes along and explains, and then you say, "yea, I knew that"

Go to any law library, and as for where the laws of united states are. The librarian will show you a wall of maroon colored books that say United States Code in them. Look at the laws we cited and you will find them in the code, allong with the bill number and the date they were passed into law, as well as any amendments.

Did you forget I sell these things? I have one sitting at my desk.

You're either referrring to the Federal Tax Coordinator or the Tax Reporter. The Internal Revenue Code is only one or two books, depending on which company you buy them from, and if you need to dig deeper than the Code, you grab the Federal Tax Handbook, which is like a set of 6, and then if you need to dig deeper, you would grab the two I mentioned above.

No, I'm talking about the official laws of the United States. The US code. The are a brownish maroon color and there are scores of volumes. Included in that code are volumes containing the tax laws.

So I'm going to tell you and Toro NO, the Internal Revenue Code is not the law. It may be the short version of the law, but it isn't "THE LAW".

The Internal Revenue Code (or IRC; more formally, the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended) is the main body of domestic statutory tax law of the United States organized topically, including laws covering the income tax (see Income tax in the United States), payroll taxes, gift taxes, estate taxes and statutory excise taxes. The Internal Revenue Code is published as Title 26 of the United States Code (USC), and is also known as the internal revenue title.

Internal Revenue Code - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But you don't have to believe Wiki -- it could be part of the conspiracy too. That is why I'm telling you to go to the US Code, which is THE LAW, and you'll find the statutes we've cited; if the thousand different sources on the web isn't enough evidence for you.

If you need to know more, you have to dig deeper. And I suspect if you dug deep enough, you'd find out Aaron Russo and these tax protesters are right.

But he says there are no laws saying you have to pay taxes and you've seen laws saying you have to pay taxes with your own eyes?

Why don't you did deeper? Why don't you open your eyes?

It's black and white. Its in the United States Code. Look for yourself to see if Russo is right. Open your eyes.

But what can you do about it, right? Nothing with that attitude.

We did something about it. We looked up the laws that say you have to pay taxes and showed them to you. The question I have is why do you have the attitude that Russo is sacrosant, the unerrant word, when you've seen so much reliable, uncontrodicted evidence he is just wrong?

 

[sealybobo]

Here's the law saying you have to file a return:

§ 7203. Willful failure to file return, supply information, or pay tax
Any person required under this title to pay any estimated tax or tax, or required by this title or by regulations made under authority thereof to make a return, keep any records, or supply any information, who willfully fails to pay such estimated tax or tax, make such return, keep such records, or supply such information, at the time or times required by law or regulations, shall, in addition to other penalties provided by law, be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $25,000 ($100,000 in the case of a corporation), or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both, together with the costs of prosecution. In the case of any person with respect to whom there is a failure to pay any estimated tax, this section shall not apply to such person with respect to such failure if there is no addition to tax under section 6654 or 6655 with respect to such failure. In the case of a willful violation of any provision of section 6050I, the first sentence of this section shall be applied by substituting “felony” for “misdemeanor” and “5 years” for “1 year”.

US CODE: Title 26,7203. Willful failure to file return, supply information, or pay tax

Oh that's clear.

And notice it says, "any person required"? Yea, we aren't required.

 

[Iriemon]

Bottom line is that they have this so vague and muttled that I don't believe it was intended that our labor ever be taxed. But they did it anyways and they used slick talking lawyers like Toro who think they know everything.

They don't. They only know what they were told.

And you know what you know for some reason other than what you were told in some internet video?

I have a hard time with people who can't even admit that there is a possibility this might be true. I don't know for sure if I'm right and I wouldn't be willing to bet my life savings that what I'm saying is right, but you probably would bet yours, and you haven't even seen the entire dvd. And since there is no other dvd like it, I know you have only gotten one side of this story.

Well, I can read, and when I see laws that say you are guilty of a felony if you evade paying taxes; it seems pretty clear to me that their is in fact a law that says you have to pay taxes.

And when I see a guy on the internet making multiple unfounded, erroneous statements, at some point I start to question the guy's credibility.

So of course I started out as skeptical as you. But then after hearing more and more information, I started to realize it is true, the income tax is a scam, and all the politicians are in on it.

Sure you can find lots of stuff on the internet. That is why, rather than citing you back some video or even an article, I go straight to the root source. If someone claims there is no law, I go and look at the laws. That, to me, is a better source of data than relying on what folks write on the internet.

I find it funny you guys think ALL politicians are corrupt but you can't believe that 99% of them know this is true and don't do anything about it. Of course they don't. Anyone who tries gets a big fat ruined career.

I don't believe all politicians are corrupt or anything close to that.

So would you be willing to bet your life savings that I'm wrong here?

I probably wouldn't bet my life savings on anything; but I'd put a hefty portion of them up on this one.

Because as to the question of whether there is a law that says you have to pay taxes, we know there is a law that says you have to pay taxes. We've cited them in this thread.

 

[sealybobo]

Here's a whole list of laws that talk about having to pay taxes:

US CODE: Title 26,PART I—GENERAL PROVISIONS


TITLE 26 > Subtitle F > CHAPTER 75 > Subchapter A > PART IPART I—GENERAL PROVISIONS

§ 7201. Attempt to evade or defeat tax
§ 7202. Willful failure to collect or pay over tax
§ 7203. Willful failure to file return, supply information, or pay tax
§ 7204. Fraudulent statement or failure to make statement to employees
§ 7205. Fraudulent withholding exemption certificate or failure to supply information
§ 7206. Fraud and false statements
§ 7207. Fraudulent returns, statements, or other documents
§ 7208. Offenses relating to stamps
§ 7209. Unauthorized use or sale of stamps
§ 7210. Failure to obey summons
§ 7211. False statements to purchasers or lessees relating to tax
§ 7212. Attempts to interfere with administration of internal revenue laws
§ 7213. Unauthorized disclosure of information
§ 7213A. Unauthorized inspection of returns or return information
§ 7214. Offenses by officers and employees of the United States
§ 7215. Offenses with respect to collected taxes
§ 7216. Disclosure or use of information by preparers of returns
§ 7217. Prohibition on executive branch influence over taxpayer audits and other investigations

Don't I have a right against self incrimination? That's what you do when you file your tax returns. You incriminate yourself.

I don't completely understand it, so please get your hands on the entire dvd and watch it, especially when Russo interviews that guy who works for a big law firm and before was a boss at the IRS. Russo argues all these things and basically the guy gives all your arguments. And Russo wins.

 

[Iriemon]

Here's a whole list of laws that talk about having to pay taxes:

US CODE: Title 26,PART I—GENERAL PROVISIONS


TITLE 26 > Subtitle F > CHAPTER 75 > Subchapter A > PART IPART I—GENERAL PROVISIONS

§ 7201. Attempt to evade or defeat tax
§ 7202. Willful failure to collect or pay over tax
§ 7203. Willful failure to file return, supply information, or pay tax
§ 7204. Fraudulent statement or failure to make statement to employees
§ 7205. Fraudulent withholding exemption certificate or failure to supply information
§ 7206. Fraud and false statements
§ 7207. Fraudulent returns, statements, or other documents
§ 7208. Offenses relating to stamps
§ 7209. Unauthorized use or sale of stamps
§ 7210. Failure to obey summons
§ 7211. False statements to purchasers or lessees relating to tax
§ 7212. Attempts to interfere with administration of internal revenue laws
§ 7213. Unauthorized disclosure of information
§ 7213A. Unauthorized inspection of returns or return information
§ 7214. Offenses by officers and employees of the United States
§ 7215. Offenses with respect to collected taxes
§ 7216. Disclosure or use of information by preparers of returns
§ 7217. Prohibition on executive branch influence over taxpayer audits and other investigations

Don't I have a right against self incrimination? That's what you do when you file your tax returns. You incriminate yourself.

That right given in the 5th amendment means you don't have to testify against yourself in a criminal proceeding. It does not give you such a right in a civil proceeding or filing taxes.

The fifth amendment states:

No person ... shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself ...

Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On its face, Russo's claim that the constitutional right against self incrimination is wrong; because by definition it only applies in criminatl cases.

I don't completely understand it, so please get your hands on the entire dvd and watch it, especially when Russo interviews that guy who works for a big law firm and before was a boss at the IRS. Russo argues all these things and basically the guy gives all your arguments. And Russo wins.

I watched the DVD.

The reason you don't completely understand it is because you have a degree of logic and common sense, which is telling you that Russo's positions are full of holes and errors.

 

[sealybobo]

And you know what you know for some reason other than what you were told in some internet video?

I have a hard time with people who can't even admit that there is a possibility this might be true. I don't know for sure if I'm right and I wouldn't be willing to bet my life savings that what I'm saying is right, but you probably would bet yours, and you haven't even seen the entire dvd. And since there is no other dvd like it, I know you have only gotten one side of this story.

Well, I can read, and when I see laws that say you are guilty of a felony if you evade paying taxes; it seems pretty clear to me that their is in fact a law that says you have to pay taxes.

And when I see a guy on the internet making multiple unfounded, erroneous statements, at some point I start to question the guy's credibility.



Sure you can find lots of stuff on the internet. That is why, rather than citing you back some video or even an article, I go straight to the root source. If someone claims there is no law, I go and look at the laws. That, to me, is a better source of data than relying on what folks write on the internet.

I find it funny you guys think ALL politicians are corrupt but you can't believe that 99% of them know this is true and don't do anything about it. Of course they don't. Anyone who tries gets a big fat ruined career.

I don't believe all politicians are corrupt or anything close to that.

So would you be willing to bet your life savings that I'm wrong here?

I probably wouldn't bet my life savings on anything; but I'd put a hefty portion of them up on this one.

Because as to the question of whether there is a law that says you have to pay taxes, we know there is a law that says you have to pay taxes. We've cited them in this thread.

Yea, it does say we should pay taxes, but what taxes? Direct or indirect? Taxes on income? Did they mean wages/labor? And is the IRC actually THE LAW, or just a book on the laws? And did the supreme court say before they passed the income tax that it was unconstitutional? And is it voluntary?

Anyways, I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle.

But one thing I'm sure of. The Fed Reserve, IRS and income tax should be abolished or fixed.

Ron Paul supports the elimination of the income tax and the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). He asserts that Congress had no power to impose a direct income tax and has called for the repeal of the 16th Amendment to the Constitution, which was ratified on February 3, 1913.

End the Income Tax, Abolish the IRS | Ron Paul .com

PS. Here is Dennis Kucinich disagreeing with you about transparency:

However, I think we can agree on the need for transparency. Transparency in the tax system is necessary to achieve fairness. Transparency permits the taxpayer to understand how fairness is arrived in the tax code. A simplified tax code can provide this transparency, which in turn provides a sense of trust in the government.

Congressman Dennis Kucinich

the Truth... that the FED and the IRS are non-governmental agencies. He has stated that there is no law to pay taxes, it's illegal and unconstitutional. It is an organization owned by a banking cartel. He also states that it's been put into peoples minds that it's a gov agency and the law to pay taxes because they (the IRS) use force to intimidate the American into submission to pay.


Around noon on Monday, September 17th, a Las Vegas federal jury returned its verdict refusing to convict nine defendants of any of the 161 federal tax crimes they had been charged with. The charges included income tax evasion, willful failure to file and conspiracy to evade taxes.

The four-month trial centered around the family businesses of Robert Kahre who paid numerous workers for their labor with circulating gold and silver U.S. coins, and did not report the wages. The payments took place over several years, allegedly totaling at least $114 million dollars.

On September 20, 2007, three days after the federal trial's dramatic conclusion, the Las Vegas Review Journal, reportedly under a degree of public pressure, ran its first (and last) story about the outcome of the trial. To this day, with exception of the single article by the Review Journal, no major media entity has published a news story regarding the outcome of this important federal criminal tax case.

The censorship of this important news story is, unfortunately, not unexpected given the continuing, worldwide onslaught against the U.S. "dollar" -- specifically the Federal Reserve variety, and the ever growing numbers of Federal Reserve Notes required to trade for an actual ounce of silver, gold, oil, or for that matter, anything.

In short, this failed prosecution has coalesced and exposed truths our Government desperately needs to hide from the People: the truth about our money, the truth about our (privately-owned) central bank, and the truth about the fraudulent nature of the operation and enforcement of the federal income tax system.

portland imc - 2007.10.03 - IRS Suffers Defeat: Kahre tax trial Wages Paid in Gold & Silver Coin DELETED FROM rogueIMC

 

[Iriemon]

Here's the law saying you have to file a return:

§ 7203. Willful failure to file return, supply information, or pay tax
Any person required under this title to pay any estimated tax or tax, or required by this title or by regulations made under authority thereof to make a return, keep any records, or supply any information, who willfully fails to pay such estimated tax or tax, make such return, keep such records, or supply such information, at the time or times required by law or regulations, shall, in addition to other penalties provided by law, be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $25,000 ($100,000 in the case of a corporation), or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both, together with the costs of prosecution. In the case of any person with respect to whom there is a failure to pay any estimated tax, this section shall not apply to such person with respect to such failure if there is no addition to tax under section 6654 or 6655 with respect to such failure. In the case of a willful violation of any provision of section 6050I, the first sentence of this section shall be applied by substituting “felony” for “misdemeanor” and “5 years” for “1 year”.

US CODE: Title 26,7203. Willful failure to file return, supply information, or pay tax

Oh that's clear.

And notice it says, "any person required"? Yea, we aren't required.

I cited laws that show you have to pay taxes. Now you are asking about the law that say who has to pay taxes.

That starts with this law:

26 U.S.C. § 1. Tax imposed.

(a) Married individuals filing joint returns and surviving spouses
There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of—
(1) every married individual (as defined in section 7703) who makes a single return jointly with his spouse under section 6013, and (2) every surviving spouse (as defined in section 2 (a)), a tax determined in accordance with the following table:

If taxable income is: -- The tax is:
Not over $36,900 -- 15% of taxable income.
Over $36,900 but not over $89,150 -- $5,535, plus 28% of the excess over $36,900.
Over $89,150 but not over $140,000 -- $20,165, plus 31% of the excess over $89,150.
Over $140,000 but not over $250,000 -- $35,928.50, plus 36% of the excess over $140,000.
Over $250,000 -- $75,528.50, plus 39.6% of the excess over $250,000.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00000001----000-.html

That law also sets out tax rates for heads of households and unmarried individuals and has lots of other provisions about who "any person required" to pay taxes is and what taxes are required.

And what is taxable income?

(a) In general
Except as provided in subsection (b), for purposes of this subtitle, the term “taxable income” means gross income minus the deductions allowed by this chapter (other than the standard deduction).

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26/63.html#d

I set on the definition of "gross income" earlier in the thread.

 

[Iriemon]

I have a hard time with people who can't even admit that there is a possibility this might be true. I don't know for sure if I'm right and I wouldn't be willing to bet my life savings that what I'm saying is right, but you probably would bet yours, and you haven't even seen the entire dvd. And since there is no other dvd like it, I know you have only gotten one side of this story.

Well, I can read, and when I see laws that say you are guilty of a felony if you evade paying taxes; it seems pretty clear to me that their is in fact a law that says you have to pay taxes.

And when I see a guy on the internet making multiple unfounded, erroneous statements, at some point I start to question the guy's credibility.



Sure you can find lots of stuff on the internet. That is why, rather than citing you back some video or even an article, I go straight to the root source. If someone claims there is no law, I go and look at the laws. That, to me, is a better source of data than relying on what folks write on the internet.



I don't believe all politicians are corrupt or anything close to that.

So would you be willing to bet your life savings that I'm wrong here?

I probably wouldn't bet my life savings on anything; but I'd put a hefty portion of them up on this one.

Because as to the question of whether there is a law that says you have to pay taxes, we know there is a law that says you have to pay taxes. We've cited them in this thread.

Yea, it does say we should pay taxes, but what taxes?

Answered in my previous post, where I show the US laws that say who has to pay what taxes.

 

[Iriemon]

Around noon on Monday, September 17th, a Las Vegas federal jury returned its verdict refusing to convict nine defendants of any of the 161 federal tax crimes they had been charged with. The charges included income tax evasion, willful failure to file and conspiracy to evade taxes.

The four-month trial centered around the family businesses of Robert Kahre who paid numerous workers for their labor with circulating gold and silver U.S. coins, and did not report the wages. The payments took place over several years, allegedly totaling at least $114 million dollars.

On September 20, 2007, three days after the federal trial's dramatic conclusion, the Las Vegas Review Journal, reportedly under a degree of public pressure, ran its first (and last) story about the outcome of the trial. To this day, with exception of the single article by the Review Journal, no major media entity has published a news story regarding the outcome of this important federal criminal tax case.

The censorship of this important news story is, unfortunately, not unexpected given the continuing, worldwide onslaught against the U.S. "dollar" -- specifically the Federal Reserve variety, and the ever growing numbers of Federal Reserve Notes required to trade for an actual ounce of silver, gold, oil, or for that matter, anything.

In short, this failed prosecution has coalesced and exposed truths our Government desperately needs to hide from the People: the truth about our money, the truth about our (privately-owned) central bank, and the truth about the fraudulent nature of the operation and enforcement of the federal income tax system.

portland imc - 2007.10.03 - IRS Suffers Defeat: Kahre tax trial Wages Paid in Gold & Silver Coin DELETED FROM rogueIMC

The fact that there was an innocent verdict doesn't mean there is no law. It means that for whatever reason the jury decided the person wasn't guilty.

People are declared not guilty of committing murder too. That doesn't mean there is no law against murder.

 

[sealybobo]

Well, I can read, and when I see laws that say you are guilty of a felony if you evade paying taxes; it seems pretty clear to me that their is in fact a law that says you have to pay taxes.

And when I see a guy on the internet making multiple unfounded, erroneous statements, at some point I start to question the guy's credibility.



Sure you can find lots of stuff on the internet. That is why, rather than citing you back some video or even an article, I go straight to the root source. If someone claims there is no law, I go and look at the laws. That, to me, is a better source of data than relying on what folks write on the internet.



I don't believe all politicians are corrupt or anything close to that.



I probably wouldn't bet my life savings on anything; but I'd put a hefty portion of them up on this one.

Because as to the question of whether there is a law that says you have to pay taxes, we know there is a law that says you have to pay taxes. We've cited them in this thread.

Yea, it does say we should pay taxes, but what taxes?

Answered in my previous posts, where I show the US laws that say who has to pay what taxes.

That's ok if you don't get it. I'm looking through my copy of the IRC and its a fucking joke.

The hardest thing in the world to understand is the income tax. -- Albert Einstein

But you'd be willing to bet $1000 that you have it figured out?

 

[sealybobo]

Around noon on Monday, September 17th, a Las Vegas federal jury returned its verdict refusing to convict nine defendants of any of the 161 federal tax crimes they had been charged with. The charges included income tax evasion, willful failure to file and conspiracy to evade taxes.

The four-month trial centered around the family businesses of Robert Kahre who paid numerous workers for their labor with circulating gold and silver U.S. coins, and did not report the wages. The payments took place over several years, allegedly totaling at least $114 million dollars.

On September 20, 2007, three days after the federal trial's dramatic conclusion, the Las Vegas Review Journal, reportedly under a degree of public pressure, ran its first (and last) story about the outcome of the trial. To this day, with exception of the single article by the Review Journal, no major media entity has published a news story regarding the outcome of this important federal criminal tax case.

The censorship of this important news story is, unfortunately, not unexpected given the continuing, worldwide onslaught against the U.S. "dollar" -- specifically the Federal Reserve variety, and the ever growing numbers of Federal Reserve Notes required to trade for an actual ounce of silver, gold, oil, or for that matter, anything.

In short, this failed prosecution has coalesced and exposed truths our Government desperately needs to hide from the People: the truth about our money, the truth about our (privately-owned) central bank, and the truth about the fraudulent nature of the operation and enforcement of the federal income tax system.

portland imc - 2007.10.03 - IRS Suffers Defeat: Kahre tax trial Wages Paid in Gold & Silver Coin DELETED FROM rogueIMC

The fact that there was an innocent verdict doesn't mean there is no law. It means that for whatever reason the jury decided the person wasn't guilty.

People are declared not guilty of committing murder too. That doesn't mean there is no law against murder.

Whatever makes you feel better when you file your returns.

Or when you realize how much you have voluntarily given to the government so they could piss it away.

At least I see the scam for what it is.

 

[Iriemon]

Yea, it does say we should pay taxes, but what taxes?

Answered in my previous posts, where I show the US laws that say who has to pay what taxes.

That's ok if you don't get it. I'm looking through my copy of the IRC and its a fucking joke.

The hardest thing in the world to understand is the income tax. -- Albert Einstein

But you'd be willing to bet $1000 that you have it figured out?

I appreciate that whatever you have on your desk may not be the law.

That is why I asked you to look at the portions of the United States Code I've cited. Because that is the law. Whatever you have on your desk may not be.

I watched your 1 1/2 hour video. But you are not willing to look at the law by looking at the United States Code.

Who doesn't have their eyes open here, Sealy?

 

[Iriemon]

Around noon on Monday, September 17th, a Las Vegas federal jury returned its verdict refusing to convict nine defendants of any of the 161 federal tax crimes they had been charged with. The charges included income tax evasion, willful failure to file and conspiracy to evade taxes.

The four-month trial centered around the family businesses of Robert Kahre who paid numerous workers for their labor with circulating gold and silver U.S. coins, and did not report the wages. The payments took place over several years, allegedly totaling at least $114 million dollars.

On September 20, 2007, three days after the federal trial's dramatic conclusion, the Las Vegas Review Journal, reportedly under a degree of public pressure, ran its first (and last) story about the outcome of the trial. To this day, with exception of the single article by the Review Journal, no major media entity has published a news story regarding the outcome of this important federal criminal tax case.

The censorship of this important news story is, unfortunately, not unexpected given the continuing, worldwide onslaught against the U.S. "dollar" -- specifically the Federal Reserve variety, and the ever growing numbers of Federal Reserve Notes required to trade for an actual ounce of silver, gold, oil, or for that matter, anything.

In short, this failed prosecution has coalesced and exposed truths our Government desperately needs to hide from the People: the truth about our money, the truth about our (privately-owned) central bank, and the truth about the fraudulent nature of the operation and enforcement of the federal income tax system.

portland imc - 2007.10.03 - IRS Suffers Defeat: Kahre tax trial Wages Paid in Gold & Silver Coin DELETED FROM rogueIMC

The fact that there was an innocent verdict doesn't mean there is no law. It means that for whatever reason the jury decided the person wasn't guilty.

People are declared not guilty of committing murder too. That doesn't mean there is no law against murder.

Whatever makes you feel better when you file your returns.

Or when you realize how much you have voluntarily given to the government so they could piss it away.

At least I see the scam for what it is.

Whether the Govt spends wisely is a different issue.

You cited Russo for the claim there is no law saying we have to pay taxes. I have in fact shown you US laws saying you have to pay taxes.

 

[Toro]

Did you? Then explain the difference. Sometimes i get the feeling you guys know there is a difference yet you pretend not to, until someone comes along and explains, and then you say, "yea, I knew that"

I took several law classes. It bored the hell out of me so I didn't go to law school. Thank God. Many of my lawyer friends are miserable.

Google is your friend.

Code of law

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_(law)
Civil code - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Statutes

Statute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BTW, I explained fiscal and monetary policy to you. Did you learn anything?

Look into it further and realize you have been hood winked. Bamboozled!

The purpose of publishing revenue rulings and revenue procedures in the Internal Revenue Bulletin is to promote correct and uniform applications of the tax laws by the Internal Revenue Service employees and to assist taxpayers in attaining maximum voluntary compliance. (emphasis added)



On July 8, 1981 the Controller General of the United States issued a report entitled Illegal Tax Protesters Threaten Tax System (GGD-81-83)3, which, on its cover, warned that illegal tax protesters threatened our tax system because they represent a threat to our nation's voluntary tax system. (emphasis added)

Mafia Chap1

Dude, there isn't a single link on the page you linked to. How do you know its true, and how do you know its taken in context?

The fact that its on the Internet does not make it true.

BTW, as someone who has gone through the Byzantine immigration system in this country, I have some familiarity with rulings by government agencies. A situation arises that needs clarification so the agency makes a ruling. It remains that way until it is challenged in a court of law, and sometimes those rulings are over-turned.

However, there is no ambiguity when the government passes a law raising the income tax rate 5%, or that you have to pay it.