the fair tax would get rid of the IRS. the fair tax would boost savings. friends, we need a fair Tax

[Tax Man]

If Dems (and GOP for that matter) wanted REAL tax fairness and reform, they would beg Trump
to pass the Fair Tax. Today wouldn't be tax day anymore. Bye-bye to IRS.

Pass the FAIRtax | FAIRtax.org

we need to overhaul and simplify the tax code, my friends!

The FAIR tax is anything but fair! I would not like to see it happen as I would pay more tax.

 

[Sunsettommy]

If Dems (and GOP for that matter) wanted REAL tax fairness and reform, they would beg Trump
to pass the Fair Tax. Today wouldn't be tax day anymore. Bye-bye to IRS.

Pass the FAIRtax | FAIRtax.org

we need to overhaul and simplify the tax code, my friends!

The FAIR tax is anything but fair! I would not like to see it happen as I would pay more tax.

Not really, it will be less in the long run, here is what the FairTax group states:

"The FairTax is a national sales tax that treats every person equally and allows American businesses to thrive, while generating the same tax revenue as the current four-million-word-plus tax code. Under the FairTax, every person living in the United States pays a sales tax on purchases of new goods and services, excluding necessities due to the prebate. The FairTax rate after necessities is 23% compared to combining the 15% income tax bracket with the 7.65% of employee payroll taxes under the current system -- both of which will be eliminated!

Important to note: the FairTax is the only tax plan currently being proposed that includes the removal of the payroll tax."

 

[Dick Foster]

A "fair tax" is nothing but a new name for a flat tax.

Which is a HUGE tax cut for the very wealthy and a MONSTER tax increase for everyone else.

And I'm all for a flat rate income tax.
That is everyone pays the same percentage on income from any source. However that is unfair to those who pay more because a true flat tax would be one where everyone pays exactly the same amount of tax regardless of amount of income or anything else.
In order to restore fairness for those who pay in more, we should have it where everyone sits down at the end of their tax year and earmark exactly where the tax dollars they paid in are spent.
Of couse this takes the checkbook away from the highly irresponsible congress but that can't be all bad given our current debt. Plus I can't think of a more democratic concept. It would sure put screeching stop to the assholes buying votes for themselves with our own money.

 

[kyzr]

Someone needs to define the "fair tax" better. Its always been described as a "flat tax, the same tax rate for all". I'm in favor of a "3% Federal Sales Tax", call it a "fair tax", a VAT (value added tax), or something else.

 

[g5000]

Someone needs to define the "fair tax" better. Its always been described as a "flat tax, the same tax rate for all". I'm in favor of a "3% Federal Sales Tax", call it a "fair tax", a VAT (value added tax), or something else.

Again, a flat tax is an income tax. The Fair Tax is a sales tax.

No one has ever called a state sales tax a "flat tax". And neither should the Fair Tax be called a flat tax. You are mistaken.

The Fair Tax would be nowhere near 3 percent. It would be closer to 21 percent.

With a prebate. And no federal income tax.

 

[kyzr]

If Dems (and GOP for that matter) wanted REAL tax fairness and reform, they would beg Trump
to pass the Fair Tax. Today wouldn't be tax day anymore. Bye-bye to IRS.

Pass the FAIRtax | FAIRtax.org

we need to overhaul and simplify the tax code, my friends!

We need to address the $22T Debt. Not cut taxes for the 1%, DUH.

If you are in favor of tax deductions, exemptions, and credits, then you are not really interested in reducing the debt.

Read post #7 and see the math. We need the Federal sales tax, the income tax, and a few more, such as the "transaction tax" on stocks, bonds, and other financial transactions to raise enough money to cover the Budget.

 

[g5000]

Someone needs to define the "fair tax" better.

There is a link in the OP!

 

[Blues Man]

A "fair tax" is nothing but a new name for a flat tax.

Which is a HUGE tax cut for the very wealthy and a MONSTER tax increase for everyone else.

Not the same at all

The fair tax is basically a sales tax the flat tax is an income tax

 

[g5000]

If Dems (and GOP for that matter) wanted REAL tax fairness and reform, they would beg Trump
to pass the Fair Tax. Today wouldn't be tax day anymore. Bye-bye to IRS.

Pass the FAIRtax | FAIRtax.org

we need to overhaul and simplify the tax code, my friends!

We need to address the $22T Debt. Not cut taxes for the 1%, DUH.

If you are in favor of tax deductions, exemptions, and credits, then you are not really interested in reducing the debt.

Read post #7 and see the math. We need the Federal sales tax, the income tax, and a few more, such as the "transaction tax" on stocks, bonds, and other financial transactions to raise enough money to cover the Budget.

Nope. We simply need the Fair Tax with ZERO exemptions.

 

[g5000]

I like the Fair Tax especially because EVERYONE pays it, and you can't hide a tax increase. Everyone knows immediately they are paying more.

LEECH: We should give free puppies to hookers!

GOVT: Okay, but we will have to raise the Fair Tax to pay for it.

LEECH: Oh, wait...

 

[Blues Man]

A "fair tax" is nothing but a new name for a flat tax.

Which is a HUGE tax cut for the very wealthy and a MONSTER tax increase for everyone else.

Nope. A "flat tax" is an income tax.

The Fair Tax is a sales tax. A tax which everyone pays. Drug dealers, hookers, tourists, you, me, your neighbors, everyone.

My only problem with the Fair Tax is the "prebate" where every person on the US gets a check every month to defray the tax costs

Why not eliminate the prebate, save the administration costs and just charge a lower tax rate?

 

[g5000]

A "fair tax" is nothing but a new name for a flat tax.

Which is a HUGE tax cut for the very wealthy and a MONSTER tax increase for everyone else.

Nope. A "flat tax" is an income tax.

The Fair Tax is a sales tax. A tax which everyone pays. Drug dealers, hookers, tourists, you, me, your neighbors, everyone.

My only problem with the Fair Tax is the "prebate" where every person on the US gets a check every month to defray the tax costs

Why not eliminate the prebate, save the administration costs and just charge a lower tax rate?

The prebate mitigates the regressive nature of a sales tax.

Let's say you earn a low income. A sales tax on the bare necessities could eat up ten percent of your income.

Whereas for a rich person, a sales tax on the bare necessities eats up less than one percent of their income.

The prebate merely offsets the sales tax on necessities.

And the prebate is the same amount no matter how much you earn.

 

[Blues Man]

A "fair tax" is nothing but a new name for a flat tax.

Which is a HUGE tax cut for the very wealthy and a MONSTER tax increase for everyone else.

Nope. A "flat tax" is an income tax.

The Fair Tax is a sales tax. A tax which everyone pays. Drug dealers, hookers, tourists, you, me, your neighbors, everyone.

My only problem with the Fair Tax is the "prebate" where every person on the US gets a check every month to defray the tax costs

Why not eliminate the prebate, save the administration costs and just charge a lower tax rate?

The prebate mitigates the regressive nature of a sales tax.

Let's say you earn a low income. A sales tax on the bare necessities could eat up ten percent of your income.

Whereas for a rich person, a sales tax on the bare necessities eats up less than one percent of their income.

The prebate merely offsets the sales tax on necessities.

And the prebate is the same amount no matter how much you earn.

Just lower the rate and get rid of the prebate

If the prebate brings the tax rate of a poor person down from 10% to 7% then just charge the 7%. Why add a costly layer of bureaucracy?

 

[g5000]

The "fair tax" only helps the 99th percentile, they don't need it. **** their "loopholes" too.
They can afford to pay tax like the rest of us.
Remember "we don't pay taxes, only little people pay taxes"? Leona Helmsley - Wikipedia

View attachment 283395

Here are recommendations to cut spending and raise revenue to start paying down the $22T Debt

A. Hire another "Grace Commission" to audit and fix the Federal budget deficit

B. B. Cut Spending: [CUT $625b a year]
1. Cut defense to 2017 levels of $600b until the Debt is reduced, saving $150b
2. Cut foreign aid $55b (until Debt is paid we can't borrow to give money away)
3. Cut Welfare $200b & Medicaid $200b (about half)
4. Cut education $20b (state responsibility)

US Government Defense Spending History with Charts - a www.usgovernmentspending.com briefing
Current US Defense Spending:
Year Military Veterans Foreign Aid Total Defense
2017 $598.70 billion $178.00 billion $46.30 billion $823.00 billion
2018 $631.20 billion $180.40 billion $49.00 billion $860.50 billion
2019 $684.60 billion $202.10 billion $54.30 billion $941.00 billion
2020 $737.90 billion $219.20 billion $53.10 billion $1.00 trillion


C. To cover the $900b budget deficit the following taxes need to be raised:
1. Raise the top tax rate about 7% above 2016 levels +$400b
2. Implement a new 3% Fed sales tax (aka VAT) +$400b
3. Implement a new transaction tax on all stocks & bonds Impose a Tax on Financial Transactions | Congressional Budget Office +$100b
4. Implement a new remittances tax/fee on all money sent out of the US https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/05/tax_remittances_can_build_the_wall.html 2% of $140b is +$3b a year


D. Reform entitlements, Medicare & Social Security, currently projected to be insolvent:

1. Social Security will be unable to meet obligations (not technically "bankrupt") in 2034, paying only 79% of owed benefits, while it will be actually bankrupt around 2090.

The Future of America’s Entitlements: What You Need to Know about the Medicare and Social Security Trustees Reports - AAF

Social Security fixes:
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2018/05/21/how-warren-buffett-thinks-we-should-fix-social-sec.aspx
https://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/planning-to-retire/2014/11/14/5-potential-social-security-fixes
https://www.aarp.org/work/social-security/info-05-2012/future-of-social-security-proposals.html


2. Medicare will be insolvent in 2026
https://www.forbes.com/sites/howardgleckman/2018/06/06/no-medicare-wont-go-broke-in-2026-yes-it-will-cost-a-lot-more-money/#d2edb707eb1c
The Future of America’s Entitlements: What You Need to Know about the Medicare and Social Security Trustees Reports - AAF


Medicare Fixes:
https://www.fool.com/retirement/general/2016/03/27/7-ways-to-fix-medicare.aspx
https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/369151-fix-what-weve-got-and-make-medicare-right-this-year
https://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/how-to-save-and-fix-medicare
https://www.aarp.org/content/dam/aarp/health/medicare-and-medicaid/2012-05/The-Future-Of-Medicare.pdf

You know...the deficit was decreasing during the second half of the Obama administration. The Republicans and Trump have since doubled it to a trillion dollars.

Trump submitted a budget for FY2019 that was a full trillion dollars more than Obama's worst year of spending.

I have been advocating a very simple way to cut the deficit ever since coming to this forum: Eliminate the annual $1.4 TRILLION of tax expenditures.

Not only would that give us a surplus, it would enable us to pay down the debt and lower tax rates for EVERYONE. Once the debt was paid off, we could lower tax rates even more.

No more exemptions, deductions, and credits for special interests. That's what is killing us.


We also need to increase the retirement age to 70, and index it to 9 percent of the population going forward. That would save Social Security and provide us a surplus.

We are living longer than our ancestors did, we should be working longer.

 

[g5000]

A "fair tax" is nothing but a new name for a flat tax.

Which is a HUGE tax cut for the very wealthy and a MONSTER tax increase for everyone else.

Nope. A "flat tax" is an income tax.

The Fair Tax is a sales tax. A tax which everyone pays. Drug dealers, hookers, tourists, you, me, your neighbors, everyone.

My only problem with the Fair Tax is the "prebate" where every person on the US gets a check every month to defray the tax costs

Why not eliminate the prebate, save the administration costs and just charge a lower tax rate?

The prebate mitigates the regressive nature of a sales tax.

Let's say you earn a low income. A sales tax on the bare necessities could eat up ten percent of your income.

Whereas for a rich person, a sales tax on the bare necessities eats up less than one percent of their income.

The prebate merely offsets the sales tax on necessities.

And the prebate is the same amount no matter how much you earn.

Just lower the rate and get rid of the prebate

If the prebate brings the tax rate of a poor person down from 10% to 7% then just charge the 7%. Why add a costly layer of bureaucracy?

Without a prebate, a sales tax is regressive, no matter what rate you set it to!

 

[Blues Man]

A "fair tax" is nothing but a new name for a flat tax.

Which is a HUGE tax cut for the very wealthy and a MONSTER tax increase for everyone else.

Nope. A "flat tax" is an income tax.

The Fair Tax is a sales tax. A tax which everyone pays. Drug dealers, hookers, tourists, you, me, your neighbors, everyone.

My only problem with the Fair Tax is the "prebate" where every person on the US gets a check every month to defray the tax costs

Why not eliminate the prebate, save the administration costs and just charge a lower tax rate?

The prebate mitigates the regressive nature of a sales tax.

Let's say you earn a low income. A sales tax on the bare necessities could eat up ten percent of your income.

Whereas for a rich person, a sales tax on the bare necessities eats up less than one percent of their income.

The prebate merely offsets the sales tax on necessities.

And the prebate is the same amount no matter how much you earn.

Just lower the rate and get rid of the prebate

If the prebate brings the tax rate of a poor person down from 10% to 7% then just charge the 7%. Why add a costly layer of bureaucracy?

Without a prebate, a sales tax is regressive, no matter what rate you set it to!

I disagree

All the prebate does is lower the higher tax rate. It's a feel good add on that does nothing but increase the administrative costs.

If the rate is 10% and the prebate lowers the rate to a net of 7% the people are still paying the regressive 7% sales tax.

So get rid of the rebate and just charge the 7%

The end result is exactly that same without the added administrative costs

 

[basquebromance]

By definition, when you tax something, you'll get less of it, my friends.

tax savings, and folks will save less.

tax investment, and folks will think long and hard about their decision to invest in companies.

 

[g5000]

By definition, when you tax something, you'll get less of it, my friends.

That's why conservatives prefer a tax on consumption (Fair Tax) over a tax on production (income tax).

 

[mikegriffith1]

The Fair Tax in its current form is never going to pass because it's too high, has too many loopholes, and contains no mechanisms to control spending.

 

[kyzr]

By definition, when you tax something, you'll get less of it, my friends.

That's why conservatives prefer a tax on consumption (Fair Tax) over a tax on production (income tax).

I like the idea of a VAT or "federal sales tax", or "fair tax", but 21% will never happen. The tax collectors will steal the government blind. A 3% or so Federal Sales Tax is barely noticeable, and doesn't change the current economic/financial system much. I'd also eliminate tax loopholes. There are "fixes" for SS & Medicare too. So I think we agree on the big picture, but I oppose turning the current tax system on its head, I prefer a tweak.