The Ethics of Capital Punishment

[Si modo]

To sum up, the position of a majority of posters on this thread is that capital punishment is morally right.

That was a broadbrush....if you read the thread, and the other similar threads on the forum, your conclusion is not accurate.


That being said anyone who says its morally right and is pro-life has some serious splaining to do.

What if someone is pro Choice and anti-DP?

 

[Amelia]

Here's a poll I started on it in September.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/185184-death-penalty-poll.html


You'd probably make a better poll. I was especially interested in how conservatives thought about the matter, so though I gave a nod to liberals I left out independents and people who were otherwise unsatisfied with right/left labels.

Also other options and shadings were left out, such as whether the support/opposition was absolute or conditional.

 

[Father Time]

Here's a poll I started on it in September.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/185184-death-penalty-poll.html


You'd probably make a better poll. I was specifically interested in how conservatives thought about the matter, so independents were left out.

Also other options and shadings were left out, such as whether the support/opposition was absolute or conditional.

What would absolute support of the death penalty look like? Death penalty for every crime?

Having it only reserved for certain crimes is conditional wouldn't you say?

 

[Amelia]

Here's a poll I started on it in September.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/185184-death-penalty-poll.html


You'd probably make a better poll. I was specifically interested in how conservatives thought about the matter, so independents were left out.

Also other options and shadings were left out, such as whether the support/opposition was absolute or conditional.

What would absolute support of the death penalty look like? Death penalty for every crime?

Having it only reserved for certain crimes is conditional wouldn't you say?

Some people might favor the death penalty for traditional capital crimes if they were assured that the person was guilty beyond a scintilla of a doubt. Or if it were applied to all those who commit capital crimes.

They might oppose the death penalty in our current judicial environment where people are sentenced to die in cases decided by circumstantial evidence or dubious eye witness testimony or prison informants with something to gain for helping get a conviction, or where rich people are able to escape the sentence for a crime comparable to one that a poor person would be executed for.


That would be an example of someone whose opposition was not absolute.

 

[Tank]

I want to rid the earth of evil, not to put evil in a cage to have a pen pal

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

To sum up, the position of a majority of posters on this thread is that capital punishment is morally right.

That was a broadbrush....if you read the thread, and the other similar threads on the forum, your conclusion is not accurate.


That being said anyone who says its morally right and is pro-life has some serious splaining to do.

What if someone is pro Choice and anti-DP?

Most of those people are anti-DP because they say saving just "One innocent life" is worth not having a DP yet they are ok with murdering an innocent unborn baby......more splainin lucy

 

[JohnA]

That was a broadbrush....if you read the thread, and the other similar threads on the forum, your conclusion is not accurate.


That being said anyone who says its morally right and is pro-life has some serious splaining to do.

What if someone is pro Choice and anti-DP?

Most of those people are anti-DP because they say saving just "One innocent life" is worth not having a DP yet they are ok with murdering an innocent unborn baby......more splainin lucy

they are two differant things
most free thinkers ( those that dont follow the dictates of any one party ) agree with some views of the left while supporting other views of the right .

my take on it is this
abortion.
freedom of the indivudual as to what they do with there body . doesnt mean i encourage or recommend it just so its there for those who choice it
no moral judgement by me is involved .

DP
there is no freedom there
that right was forfeited when a life was taken .
not to say i think EVERY MURDER deserves the DP it should be reserved as a ( option) for the most heinous of crimes expecially those who have shown a total disregard for the well being and freedom of other citizens .
no moral judgement by me there, the perpetrator of the crime put themselves in a position to be judged by his /her peers
neither of my opinions are based on any religious . /moral judgement and neither are they contraditory

 

[Father Time]

That was a broadbrush....if you read the thread, and the other similar threads on the forum, your conclusion is not accurate.


That being said anyone who says its morally right and is pro-life has some serious splaining to do.

What if someone is pro Choice and anti-DP?

Most of those people are anti-DP because they say saving just "One innocent life" is worth not having a DP yet they are ok with murdering an innocent unborn baby......more splainin lucy

They say a fetus's life is not valuable because it lacks ... fill in the blank (usually it's self awareness or the ability to think or brainwaves).

Meanwhile a serial killer has all those things so it would be immoral to kill them.

What I think is stupid is anyone who claims life is sacred at all points and then claims that executing people is OK even though it's a life.

 

[Wicked Jester]

An eye for an eye. Right or wrong?

I say it is wrong.

All human life is sacred. Society has a moral obligation to protect human life, not take it. The death penalty harms society by cheapening the value of life. Allowing the state to inflict death on certain of its citizens legitimizes the taking of life. The death of anyone, even a convicted killer, diminishes us all. Society has a duty to end this practice which causes such harm, yet produces little in the way of benefits.

My wife just had a serial killer/rapist come through her courtroom last week who is already on death row, and is now facing four more counts and another death sentence......They need to express run that sorry son of a ***** to the death chamber, and slowly kill his sorry ass, to ensure he suffers immensly........'cause that is exactly what he put all those women he murdered through.

Sad thing is, they still believe he has many more victime out there who haven't been connected to him, YET.

There is NOTHING "sacred" about that sorry son of a *****. There is nothing "sacred" about his ******* life. And anybody who thinks there is, is a god damn loony moonbat.

 

[Wicked Jester]

What if someone is pro Choice and anti-DP?

Most of those people are anti-DP because they say saving just "One innocent life" is worth not having a DP yet they are ok with murdering an innocent unborn baby......more splainin lucy

They say a fetus's life is not valuable because it lacks ... fill in the blank (usually it's self awareness or the ability to think or brainwaves).

Meanwhile a serial killer has all those things so it would be immoral to kill them.

What I think is stupid is anyone who claims life is sacred at all points and then claims that executing people is OK even though it's a life.

When a fetus jumps out of the womb and commits deliberate pre-meditated murder/murders, get back to us, OK?

 

[JamesInFlorida]

Here's my 2 cents on the death penalty.

-I do support the death penalty-but only in cases where the person has committed murder (1st or 2nd degree).

-But I also recognize that death is the only punishment that is final-once you execute somebody, there are no second-chances. This is why I think the death penalty should be ruled upon by a jury with NO DOUBT-not beyond reasonable doubt. That means DNA evidence, in my opinion. With that said-with reasonable doubt throw them in jail forever.

-I used to be anti-death penalty. Then I thought about it one day. What if I was sitting with my family, and somebody walked in the front door-and blew all of them away, and I got away. I know who he is. I can identify him. There's DNA evidence. It's him. Would I really not want to seek the death penalty? Even more so, do I think somebody in that situation should have the ability to pursue the death penalty? I came up with conclusion of "yes".


So 2 questions for those that are anti-death penalty. And answer honestly:

1) If you were 100% sure somebody killed your family (multiple members let's say), would you honestly not want them to get the death penalty?

2) Even if the answer to that question is "no". Why do you think other people in that situation shouldn't have the ability to seek it?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

What if someone is pro Choice and anti-DP?

Most of those people are anti-DP because they say saving just "One innocent life" is worth not having a DP yet they are ok with murdering an innocent unborn baby......more splainin lucy

they are two differant things
most free thinkers ( those that dont follow the dictates of any one party ) agree with some views of the left while supporting other views of the right .

my take on it is this
abortion.
freedom of the indivudual as to what they do with there body . doesnt mean i encourage or recommend it just so its there for those who choice it
no moral judgement by me is involved .
DP
there is no freedom there
that right was forfeited when a life was taken .
not to say i think EVERY MURDER deserves the DP it should be reserved as a ( option) for the most heinous of crimes expecially those who have shown a total disregard for the well being and freedom of other citizens .
no moral judgement by me there, the perpetrator of the crime put themselves in a position to be judged by his /her peers
neither of my opinions are based on any religious . /moral judgement and neither are they contraditory

So an unborn life is not independant in your mind and you would be ok with abortions as long as they are at any time pre-birth? From what you say the fetus is not its own entity but part of the mother's body, not a seperate entity growing inside her body

 

[JohnA]

Most of those people are anti-DP because they say saving just "One innocent life" is worth not having a DP yet they are ok with murdering an innocent unborn baby......more splainin lucy

they are two differant things
most free thinkers ( those that dont follow the dictates of any one party ) agree with some views of the left while supporting other views of the right .

my take on it is this
abortion.
freedom of the indivudual as to what they do with there body . doesnt mean i encourage or recommend it just so its there for those who choice it
no moral judgement by me is involved .
DP
there is no freedom there
that right was forfeited when a life was taken .
not to say i think EVERY MURDER deserves the DP it should be reserved as a ( option) for the most heinous of crimes expecially those who have shown a total disregard for the well being and freedom of other citizens .
no moral judgement by me there, the perpetrator of the crime put themselves in a position to be judged by his /her peers
neither of my opinions are based on any religious . /moral judgement and neither are they contraditory

So an unborn life is not independant in your mind and you would be ok with abortions as long as they are at any time pre-birth? From what you say the fetus is not its own entity but part of the mother's body, not a seperate entity growing inside her body

EXACTLY the fetus is not a seperate * independant * entity without the mothers nourishment of it it will die
whether to have a abortion of not should be decided by the 2nd trimester no need to wait until the baby is almost born .. unless of course there are health issues
there again responsiblility or lack of is the factor

 

[Sky Dancer]

An eye for an eye. Right or wrong?

I say it is wrong.

All human life is sacred. Society has a moral obligation to protect human life, not take it. The death penalty harms society by cheapening the value of life. Allowing the state to inflict death on certain of its citizens legitimizes the taking of life. The death of anyone, even a convicted killer, diminishes us all. Society has a duty to end this practice which causes such harm, yet produces little in the way of benefits.

My wife just had a serial killer/rapist come through her courtroom last week who is already on death row, and is now facing four more counts and another death sentence......They need to express run that sorry son of a ***** to the death chamber, and slowly kill his sorry ass, to ensure he suffers immensly........'cause that is exactly what he put all those women he murdered through.

Sad thing is, they still believe he has many more victime out there who haven't been connected to him, YET.

There is NOTHING "sacred" about that sorry son of a *****. There is nothing "sacred" about his ******* life. And anybody who thinks there is, is a god damn loony moonbat.

There is nothing sacred about the acts of murder and rape. All beings have buddha nature, they just don't recognize it.

Rapists and murderers don't see they have buddha nature, and they behave worse than animals.

We need to remove them from society permanently.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I want to rid the earth of evil, not to put evil in a cage to have a pen pal

You really have quite the charge that I write for the Prison Dharma Project.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

they are two differant things
most free thinkers ( those that dont follow the dictates of any one party ) agree with some views of the left while supporting other views of the right .

my take on it is this
abortion.
freedom of the indivudual as to what they do with there body . doesnt mean i encourage or recommend it just so its there for those who choice it
no moral judgement by me is involved .
DP
there is no freedom there
that right was forfeited when a life was taken .
not to say i think EVERY MURDER deserves the DP it should be reserved as a ( option) for the most heinous of crimes expecially those who have shown a total disregard for the well being and freedom of other citizens .
no moral judgement by me there, the perpetrator of the crime put themselves in a position to be judged by his /her peers
neither of my opinions are based on any religious . /moral judgement and neither are they contraditory

So an unborn life is not independant in your mind and you would be ok with abortions as long as they are at any time pre-birth? From what you say the fetus is not its own entity but part of the mother's body, not a seperate entity growing inside her body

EXACTLY the fetus is not a seperate * independant * entity without the mothers nourishment of it it will die
whether to have a abortion of not should be decided by the 2nd trimester no need to wait until the baby is almost born .. unless of course there are health issues
there again responsiblility or lack of is the factor

Well we disagree there and thank you very much for clarifying without freaking out like so many seem to do when asked for clarification!

I do agree on abortions only if the life of the mother is definately at obvious risk or someone was impregnated by a rapist but overall I personally find Abortion to be murdering an innocent life so, like the death penalty in most instances, I do not support abortion. There are rare and specific circumstances where I can overlook this position but 99% of the time i am against both.

 

[Amelia]

Here's my 2 cents on the death penalty.

-I do support the death penalty-but only in cases where the person has committed murder (1st or 2nd degree).

-But I also recognize that death is the only punishment that is final-once you execute somebody, there are no second-chances. This is why I think the death penalty should be ruled upon by a jury with NO DOUBT-not beyond reasonable doubt. That means DNA evidence, in my opinion. With that said-with reasonable doubt throw them in jail forever.

-I used to be anti-death penalty. Then I thought about it one day. What if I was sitting with my family, and somebody walked in the front door-and blew all of them away, and I got away. I know who he is. I can identify him. There's DNA evidence. It's him. Would I really not want to seek the death penalty? Even more so, do I think somebody in that situation should have the ability to pursue the death penalty? I came up with conclusion of "yes".


So 2 questions for those that are anti-death penalty. And answer honestly:

1) If you were 100% sure somebody killed your family (multiple members let's say), would you honestly not want them to get the death penalty?

2) Even if the answer to that question is "no". Why do you think other people in that situation shouldn't have the ability to seek it?

1) At this point in time, not actually experiencing it so I can't be totally sure how I'd feel, but at this point in time, I think the answer is no, I would prefer they be sent to prison for the rest of their natural life.

2) Because it's NOT reserved for times when there is 100% certainty that the person committed the crime.

If executions were carried out only where there was no doubt, then I would have to think about it again.

But until the system is corrected from what we have know, it is moot. The death penalty is not applied fairly. There are too many people convicted on circumstantial evidence and the testimony of people who are hoping to get something from testifying for the prosecution. So, since the judicial system doesn't look like it's going to be fixed any time soon, I don't want the judicial system to be authorized to kill for the foreseeable future.

 

[Wicked Jester]

An eye for an eye. Right or wrong?

I say it is wrong.

All human life is sacred. Society has a moral obligation to protect human life, not take it. The death penalty harms society by cheapening the value of life. Allowing the state to inflict death on certain of its citizens legitimizes the taking of life. The death of anyone, even a convicted killer, diminishes us all. Society has a duty to end this practice which causes such harm, yet produces little in the way of benefits.

My wife just had a serial killer/rapist come through her courtroom last week who is already on death row, and is now facing four more counts and another death sentence......They need to express run that sorry son of a ***** to the death chamber, and slowly kill his sorry ass, to ensure he suffers immensly........'cause that is exactly what he put all those women he murdered through.

Sad thing is, they still believe he has many more victime out there who haven't been connected to him, YET.

There is NOTHING "sacred" about that sorry son of a *****. There is nothing "sacred" about his ******* life. And anybody who thinks there is, is a god damn loony moonbat.

There is nothing sacred about the acts of murder and rape. All beings have buddha nature, they just don't recognize it.

Rapists and murderers don't see they have buddha nature, and they behave worse than animals.

We need to remove them from society permanently.

Knock it off with that phoney, cultist Buddha crap, Sky.

If all beings had your so-called Buddha Nature, they wouldn't be out torturing, raping, and then brutally murdering multiple hookers and crack whores.

Christ, this man does not deserve to sit in a cell on death row watching cable, eating ramen, receiving letters, reading books, accessing the internet, enjoying an hours recreation time a day......Hell, when they were transporting that sorry POS from Quentin to L.A., the guards stopped at Burger King and let him enjoy a breakfast meal of his choice inside the transport van. My wifes judge found out about it, and after finding there was more than enough evidence to hold him for trial, DNA, he crafted an emergency order that banned them from feeding him anything more then the nasty, dry, county jail bologne sandwiches during his transfer back up north.

The ****** needs to be permanently removed from life. he needs to suffer the fate set forth by the jury of his peers, and upheld by the judge, PERIOD!

Here's of whom I am speaking of:

Chester D. Turner, L.A. Serial Killer, Charged With Four New Murders - Crimesider - CBS News

 

[Tank]

I want to rid the earth of evil, not to put evil in a cage to have a pen pal

You really have quite the charge that I write for the Prison Dharma Project.

Ya, you seam to not be able to see the big picture, you have gotten personal and made friends with the killers.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I want to rid the earth of evil, not to put evil in a cage to have a pen pal

You really have quite the charge that I write for the Prison Dharma Project.

Ya, you seam to not be able to see the big picture, you have gotten personal and made friends with the killers.

No, I have responded to prisoners that I was assigned.