The Elites Vs. The Rest of Us

[Annie]

An unraveling of civilization?

Hardly the Best and Brightest by Victor Davis Hanson on National Review Online

Hardly the Best and Brightest
The institutions run by our elites aren’t trustworthy, so why should we put any faith in them?

By Victor Davis Hanson

Most historians agree that earthquakes, droughts, or barbarians did not unravel classical Athens or imperial Rome.

More likely the social contract between the elite and the more ordinary citizens finally began breaking apart—and with it the trust necessary for a society’s collective investment and the payment of taxes. Then civilization itself begins to unwind.

Something like that has been occurring lately because of the actions on Wall Street and in Washington, D.C. The former “masters of the universe” who ran Wall Street took enormous risks to get multimillion-dollar bonuses, even as they piled up billions in debt for their soon-to-be-bankrupt companies....

...Take your pick—on the one side, we have free-market capitalists who took huge amounts of money as their companies eroded the savings of tens of millions; on the other, we have supposedly egalitarian liberals who skipped paying taxes.

The result is the same. Our best educated, wealthiest, and most-connected in matters of finance proved our dumbest—and our political leaders were less than ethical in meeting their moral responsibilities as citizens.

If ordinary Americans were to follow the examples of Wall Street and Washington elites, the nation would neither collect needed revenue nor invest its capital. All that is a recipe for national decline and fall.

 

[Gunny]

An unraveling of civilization?

Hardly the Best and Brightest by Victor Davis Hanson on National Review Online

Hardly the Best and Brightest
The institutions run by our elites aren’t trustworthy, so why should we put any faith in them?

By Victor Davis Hanson

Most historians agree that earthquakes, droughts, or barbarians did not unravel classical Athens or imperial Rome.

More likely the social contract between the elite and the more ordinary citizens finally began breaking apart—and with it the trust necessary for a society’s collective investment and the payment of taxes. Then civilization itself begins to unwind.

Something like that has been occurring lately because of the actions on Wall Street and in Washington, D.C. The former “masters of the universe” who ran Wall Street took enormous risks to get multimillion-dollar bonuses, even as they piled up billions in debt for their soon-to-be-bankrupt companies....

...Take your pick—on the one side, we have free-market capitalists who took huge amounts of money as their companies eroded the savings of tens of millions; on the other, we have supposedly egalitarian liberals who skipped paying taxes.

The result is the same. Our best educated, wealthiest, and most-connected in matters of finance proved our dumbest—and our political leaders were less than ethical in meeting their moral responsibilities as citizens.

If ordinary Americans were to follow the examples of Wall Street and Washington elites, the nation would neither collect needed revenue nor invest its capital. All that is a recipe for national decline and fall.

Kind of hard to expect ethical behavior from our political leaders when they are part of the elites themselves.

 

[Annie]

An unraveling of civilization?

Hardly the Best and Brightest by Victor Davis Hanson on National Review Online

Hardly the Best and Brightest
The institutions run by our elites aren’t trustworthy, so why should we put any faith in them?

By Victor Davis Hanson

Most historians agree that earthquakes, droughts, or barbarians did not unravel classical Athens or imperial Rome.

More likely the social contract between the elite and the more ordinary citizens finally began breaking apart—and with it the trust necessary for a society’s collective investment and the payment of taxes. Then civilization itself begins to unwind.

Something like that has been occurring lately because of the actions on Wall Street and in Washington, D.C. The former “masters of the universe” who ran Wall Street took enormous risks to get multimillion-dollar bonuses, even as they piled up billions in debt for their soon-to-be-bankrupt companies....

...Take your pick—on the one side, we have free-market capitalists who took huge amounts of money as their companies eroded the savings of tens of millions; on the other, we have supposedly egalitarian liberals who skipped paying taxes.

The result is the same. Our best educated, wealthiest, and most-connected in matters of finance proved our dumbest—and our political leaders were less than ethical in meeting their moral responsibilities as citizens.

If ordinary Americans were to follow the examples of Wall Street and Washington elites, the nation would neither collect needed revenue nor invest its capital. All that is a recipe for national decline and fall.

Kind of hard to expect ethical behavior from our political leaders when they are part of the elites themselves.

Exactly the point. The grads of the Ivies seem to lack ethics, whether on Wall Street or The Mall.

 

[Diuretic]

That was one of Victor's more lame efforts.

But that's to be expected. His partisanship has been evident for many years. Now he doesn't even try to conceal it.

The elites are from both (referencing the bipolar nature of US politics) parties.

Victor, who is a member of the elite on the right is having a go at the elite on what passes for the left (the Democratic Party is a right wing party in my view).

Victor has outed himself as a partisan hypocrite. Stick to historical analyses of wars Victor, you just shot your bolt on this one.

 

[Annie]

That was one of Victor's more lame efforts.

But that's to be expected. His partisanship has been evident for many years. Now he doesn't even try to conceal it.

The elites are from both (referencing the bipolar nature of US politics) parties.

Victor, who is a member of the elite on the right is having a go at the elite on what passes for the left (the Democratic Party is a right wing party in my view).

Victor has outed himself as a partisan hypocrite. Stick to historical analyses of wars Victor, you just shot your bolt on this one.

I agree that he's an 'elite', however his criticism was not aimed at the 'left', no matter how you'd like to spin it.

I'd say, this is one of your own more lame attempts at your newfound partisanship.

 

[elvis]

An unraveling of civilization?

Hardly the Best and Brightest by Victor Davis Hanson on National Review Online

Hardly the Best and Brightest
The institutions run by our elites aren’t trustworthy, so why should we put any faith in them?

By Victor Davis Hanson

Most historians agree that earthquakes, droughts, or barbarians did not unravel classical Athens or imperial Rome.

More likely the social contract between the elite and the more ordinary citizens finally began breaking apart—and with it the trust necessary for a society’s collective investment and the payment of taxes. Then civilization itself begins to unwind.

Something like that has been occurring lately because of the actions on Wall Street and in Washington, D.C. The former “masters of the universe” who ran Wall Street took enormous risks to get multimillion-dollar bonuses, even as they piled up billions in debt for their soon-to-be-bankrupt companies....

...Take your pick—on the one side, we have free-market capitalists who took huge amounts of money as their companies eroded the savings of tens of millions; on the other, we have supposedly egalitarian liberals who skipped paying taxes.

The result is the same. Our best educated, wealthiest, and most-connected in matters of finance proved our dumbest—and our political leaders were less than ethical in meeting their moral responsibilities as citizens.

If ordinary Americans were to follow the examples of Wall Street and Washington elites, the nation would neither collect needed revenue nor invest its capital. All that is a recipe for national decline and fall.

I worry about this. If working and middle class people feel screwed over by both parties, new parties eventually may emerge......
and they may not actually be moderate.....

 

[Gunny]

That was one of Victor's more lame efforts.

But that's to be expected. His partisanship has been evident for many years. Now he doesn't even try to conceal it.

The elites are from both (referencing the bipolar nature of US politics) parties.

Victor, who is a member of the elite on the right is having a go at the elite on what passes for the left (the Democratic Party is a right wing party in my view).

Victor has outed himself as a partisan hypocrite. Stick to historical analyses of wars Victor, you just shot your bolt on this one.

Really? Did you miss the part where he "had a go" at the elites on BOTH sides?

 

[editec]

When the wealthy of a nation convince themselves that they are the font of all wealth, when the elite convince themselves (and enough of their quislings) that the people ought to be THANKFUL to them -- thankful even when the system is no longer working for the majority of the people -- then that nation is going down.

Do any of you think the above describes the attitude of the former administration and it's supporters?

I sure as hell think it does.

And since during that elitist's administration, the economy went into the crapper, what was thought of as the conventional wisdom (basically the right wings apology for fucking the rest of us) no longer made sense in light of the pain and suffering it was causing for enough Americans, then the TIDE BEGAN TO TURN.

So now we have a POTUS who is (or at least sounds like) a POPULIST instead of an elitist.

It remains to be seen whether or not he can AND WILL, really do something to change the fundamentals which rewarded the capital elite at the expense of labor.

Frankly, while I think his intentions are to help the people and save the economy, I am reasonably sure that when push comes to shove, Obama and Congress will save the economy (of the elite) and let the working class hang in the wind.

I really do not think they'll have much choice.

Because in order to truly help the working class of America, they'd have to stop giving the capital elite every advantage.

And since they feel that the capital elite have the RIGHT to those advantages, since they DEFINE CIVILIZATION, as that situation which gives the capital elite complete control over things, I have to tell you that the changes we can expect to see will essantially be mostly cosmetic.

I hope I'm wrong, of course, but the structure of the current bailout seems to be supporting that contention.

 

[midcan5]

Not sure what to make of Victor's analysis, I usually disagree with his elitist wingnut views and there would be sense in this if he took a second to understand how we got here instead of pointing his partisan finger. Real estate was a bubble, it has been in the past and in a generation or so it will probably be again. So how is it a society protects itself? Does it in this case do that by saying let them do as they please, all will be better in the morning? Hardly, but that is what happened, and just as the GD slowed down the economic engine, this crash has caused a loss of confidence and life is confidence in the end. So people get out there and buy, unlike after 911 when Bush should have raised taxes etc. now is the time to shop.

 

[Annie]

When the wealthy of a nation convince themselves that they are the font of all wealth, when the elite convince themselves (and enough of their quislings) that the people ought to be THANKFUL to them -- thankful even when the system is no longer working for the majority of the people -- then that nation is going down.

Do any of you think the above describes the attitude of the former administration and it's supporters?

I sure as hell think it does.

And since during that elitist's administration, the economy went into the crapper, what was thought of as the conventional wisdom (basically the right wings apology for fucking the rest of us) no longer made sense in light of the pain and suffering it was causing for enough Americans, then the TIDE BEGAN TO TURN.

So now we have a POTUS who is (or at least sounds like) a POPULIST instead of an elitist.

It remains to be seen whether or not he can AND WILL, really do something to change the fundamentals which rewarded the capital elite at the expense of labor.

Frankly, while I think his intentions are to help the people and save the economy, I am reasonably sure that when push comes to shove, Obama and Congress will save the economy (of the elite) and let the working class hang in the wind.

I really do not think they'll have much choice.

Because in order to truly help the working class of America, they'd have to stop giving the capital elite every advantage.

And since they feel that the capital elite have the RIGHT to those advantages, since they DEFINE CIVILIZATION, as that situation which gives the capital elite complete control over things, I have to tell you that the changes we can expect to see will essantially be mostly cosmetic.

I hope I'm wrong, of course, but the structure of the current bailout seems to be supporting that contention.

As Hanson inferred, the elites on both sides, whether Wall Street taking millions/billions and abusing their clients trust or Washington elites feeling they can impose taxes on the rest of us, but not pay themselves; the table is set for an eventual confrontation.

I think the Bush administration often acted high handed, while not being conservative at all. What I do see differently then, was criticism from 'the base', whether increasing the troops in Iraq, illegal immigration 'reform', and Dubai port deal. This revision that Bush was 'supported' for any and all his policies, is just that, revisionism.

 

[driveby]

That was one of Victor's more lame efforts.

But that's to be expected. His partisanship has been evident for many years. Now he doesn't even try to conceal it.

The elites are from both (referencing the bipolar nature of US politics) parties.

Victor, who is a member of the elite on the right is having a go at the elite on what passes for the left (the Democratic Party is a right wing party in my view).

Victor has outed himself as a partisan hypocrite. Stick to historical analyses of wars Victor, you just shot your bolt on this one.

Really? Did you miss the part where he "had a go" at the elites on BOTH sides?

Ahh the libs here are just like the ones in congress, signing off ( or spouting off ) before they've actually read something ........

 

[Anguille]

Gunny and Annie, are you two not part of the elite here at USMB?

 

[Annie]

Gunny and Annie, are you two not part of the elite here at USMB?

Indeed, Gunny is. Me? Just been here a long time...

I'd say Gunny wears a target, no?

 

[Anguille]

Gunny and Annie, are you two not part of the elite here at USMB?

Indeed, Gunny is. Me? Just been here a long time...

I'd say Gunny wears a target, no?

I didn't realize how long you've been here! You are the Mayflower elite.

I wonder if Gunny actually gets much neg rep, considering the result when he returns it. I bet he gets more guff in posts. I certainly try to keep mine contained to posts and PM and keep rep out of it. Just a survival technique.

 

[dilloduck]

Gunny and Annie, are you two not part of the elite here at USMB?

Indeed, Gunny is. Me? Just been here a long time...

I'd say Gunny wears a target, no?

I didn't realize how long you've been here! You are the Mayflower elite.

I wonder if Gunny actually gets much neg rep, considering the result when he returns it. I bet he gets more guff in posts. I certainly try to keep mine contained to posts and PM and keep rep out of it. Just a survival technique.

You can continue to post here if your rep is minus a million. I give you sunni for example

 

[Anguille]

Indeed, Gunny is. Me? Just been here a long time...

I'd say Gunny wears a target, no?

I didn't realize how long you've been here! You are the Mayflower elite.

I wonder if Gunny actually gets much neg rep, considering the result when he returns it. I bet he gets more guff in posts. I certainly try to keep mine contained to posts and PM and keep rep out of it. Just a survival technique.

You can continue to post here if your rep is minus a million. I give you sunni for example

Sunni's rep hole is so big, ( no double entendre intended), that pos or neg rep from him will never count more than a thought. Which is the purest form of rep anyway.

 

[dilloduck]

I didn't realize how long you've been here! You are the Mayflower elite.

I wonder if Gunny actually gets much neg rep, considering the result when he returns it. I bet he gets more guff in posts. I certainly try to keep mine contained to posts and PM and keep rep out of it. Just a survival technique.

You can continue to post here if your rep is minus a million. I give you sunni for example

Sunni's rep hole is so big, ( no double entendre intended), that pos or neg rep from him will never count more than a thought. Which is the purest form of rep anyway.

So your "survival" analogy is sorta all shot to hell ain't it ?

 

[Anguille]

You can continue to post here if your rep is minus a million. I give you sunni for example

Sunni's rep hole is so big, ( no double entendre intended), that pos or neg rep from him will never count more than a thought. Which is the purest form of rep anyway.

So your "survival" analogy is sorta all shot to hell ain't it ?

Survival within the rep system. I wasn't talking about board membership.

PS. I notice your rep has been shooting skyward. (no pun intended) I hope you haven't joined any neg repping gangs, .

 

[dilloduck]

Sunni's rep hole is so big, ( no double entendre intended), that pos or neg rep from him will never count more than a thought. Which is the purest form of rep anyway.

So your "survival" analogy is sorta all shot to hell ain't it ?

Survival within the rep system. I wasn't talking about board membership.

PS. I notice your rep has been shooting skyward. (no pun intended) I hope you haven't joined any neg repping gangs, .

the rep system isn't something I bother myself with-----I'm just curious why you get all bent out of shape because someone is a mod or has more rep than you. Don't you have better things to do ?

 

[Anguille]

So your "survival" analogy is sorta all shot to hell ain't it ?

Survival within the rep system. I wasn't talking about board membership.

PS. I notice your rep has been shooting skyward. (no pun intended) I hope you haven't joined any neg repping gangs, .

the rep system isn't something I bother myself with-----I'm just curious why you get all bent out of shape because someone is a mod or has more rep than you. Don't you have better things to do ?

I'm not bent out of shape. I asked a legitimate question. Which seems to have bent you all out of shape.

What gives?