The electoral college is a disaster for democracy

[Pogo]

amazing, the party that lets super delegates pick their candidate is complaining about the electoral college

I know nothing of "parties" but personally I've been on this case all year. Matter of fact most of my posts on this topic are in the Third Party threads. And before this year ALL my posts on the topic were in terms of voting for third parties as protest votes.

If you refer to the original author of the thread title, that's Donald Rump. Four years ago. Because that's when this issue comes up -- quadrennially. Which is why it's here now, was here four years ago and will be four years hence.

 

[Redfish]

amazing, the party that lets super delegates pick their candidate is complaining about the electoral college

I know nothing of "parties" but personally I've been on this case all year. Matter of fact most of my posts on this topic are in the Third Party threads. And before this year ALL my posts on the topic were in terms of voting for third parties as protest votes.

If you refer to the original author of the thread title, that's Donald Rump. Four years ago. Because that's when this issue comes up -- quadrennially. Which is why it's here now, was here four years ago and will be four years hence.

spin it however makes you feel good. You are advocating the dem/lib position here, and dem is a party.

So, have you come out against the democrat super delegates? started a thread condemning them? or are you a hypocrite on this topic as you are on most topics?

 

[Uncensored2008]

No cretin, I changed nothing. I've been busy all day -- the post is exactly as it started. This is the price you pay for not understanding English.

Busy all day Pogo? Did you boost a full case of Krylon or something?

 

[Uncensored2008]

[


I know nothing of "parties" but personally I've been on this case all year. Matter of fact most of my posts on this topic are in the Third Party threads. And before this year ALL my posts on the topic were in terms of voting for third parties as protest votes.

If you refer to the original author of the thread title, that's Donald Rump. Four years ago. Because that's when this issue comes up -- quadrennially. Which is why it's here now, was here four years ago and will be four years hence.

You know nothing of anything, Huffer.

You read shit on the Soros hate sites and regurgitate it here. That is the extent of your 'knowledge."

 

[Pogo]

spin it however makes you feel good. You are advocating the dem/lib position here, and dem is a party.

Again for the slow kids --- I've been posting on how the EC works, way way WAY before there was any "dem/lib position". Including when the fuckeduppityness of that system benefits "dem/libs" and how that's equally fucked up. But I can't hold your hand and walk you through all that history just because you weren't paying attention the first time(s).

Y'all are funny as a crutch ---- "I never listened to you in the past, therefore you just started this point". **** you.

So, have you come out against the democrat super delegates? started a thread condemning them?

During the primary, yup.

But at the same time I did point out, as regards both party, singular intentional, that they each are their own entity and can do what they like, that primaries are in no way legally binding, that there's already a history demonstrating that (I've brought up and described in detail the 1912 Republican Party schism about eight hundred times while y'all were staring into space going "duh"), that those of us wishing either party would do the right thing are simply wishful thinking and lacking a basis in law; and that that's part of the whole reason why entrenched political parties that hang around for ridiculous stretches of time are stupid.

But you go on and pretend like I just got here. I understand that's a lot less work for you.

or are you a hypocrite on this topic as you are on most topics?

Links?

 

[Redfish]

spin it however makes you feel good. You are advocating the dem/lib position here, and dem is a party.

Again for the slow kids --- I've been posting on how the EC works, way way WAY before there was any "dem/lib position". Including when the fuckeduppityness of that system benefits "dem/libs" and how that's equally fucked up. But I can't hold your hand and walk you through all that history just because you weren't paying attention the first time(s).

Y'all are funny as a crutch ---- "I never listened to you in the past, therefore you just started this point". **** you.

So, have you come out against the democrat super delegates? started a thread condemning them?

During the primary, yup.

But at the same time I did point out, as regards both party, singular intentional, that they each are their own entity and can do what they like, that primaries are in no way legally binding, that there's already a history demonstrating that (I've brought up and described in detail the 1912 Republican Party schism about eight hundred times while y'all were staring into space going "duh"), that those of us wishing either party would do the right thing are simply wishful thinking and lacking a basis in law; and that that's part of the whole reason why entrenched political parties that hang around for ridiculous stretches of time are stupid.

But you go on and pretend like I just got here. I understand that's a lot less work for you.

what's amusing about your inane posts is that if the hildebeast had won you would be praising the EC for allowing the "will of the people" to prevail.

What you are unable to grasp is that if the EC did not exist the candidates would spend all of their time in Ca, NY, Tx, and Fl and there is no way to predict what the result would have been. However, if we use the numbers of people who showed up for rallys, we might get an indication. Trump got 25,000 and hilly got 500 to rallies.

Nice intellectual discussion, but worthless.

 

[Pogo]

what's amusing about your inane posts is that if the hildebeast had won you would be praising the EC for allowing the "will of the people" to prevail.

What's amusing about this particular one is the way you actually imagine a specualtion fallacy is somehow a real point. It isn't. It's just you pulling more shit out of your ass. I've never "praised the EC" in my life. I have however offered, including on this site dozens of times, a recounting (pun intended) of how I cast a protest vote against the EC while living in your state, sixteen years ago, and what a drop in the bucket that protest was.

Apparently that flew over your pointy head along with everything else.

What you are unable to grasp is that if the EC did not exist the candidates would spend all of their time in Ca, NY, Tx, and Fl and there is no way to predict what the result would have been.

What you are unable to grasp is that I've already made that point while you were going

Except that in the actual event I pointed out that as opposed to that Rumpian fantasy concocted by an orange clown who's never run for office before, what would actually happen is that candies would get the **** out of that rut of spending all their time in so-called "swing" states and finally get out to cultivate support where they don't bother to go now, because it would yield greater returns. Those posts are right here in this thread too.

And now you want to reinvent my history too. Poster please. The simple fact is, your invention of positions I've never had, allusions to contradictions I've never drawn and speculations about what I woulda coulda shoulda said if X, Y or Z happens don't amount to a bucket of warm piss. They are a tale waged by an idiot wag, full of sound and fallacy, signifying nothing. Nothing but your own inability to read.

 

[Redfish]

what's amusing about your inane posts is that if the hildebeast had won you would be praising the EC for allowing the "will of the people" to prevail.

What's amusing about this particular one is the way you actually imagine a specualtion fallacy is somehow a real point. It isn't. It's just you pulling more shit out of your ass. I've never "praised the EC" in my life. I have however offered, including on this site dozens of times, a recounting (pun intended) of how I cast a protest vote against the EC while living in your state, sixteen years ago, and what a drop in the bucket that protest was.

Apparently that flew over your pointy head along with everything else.

What you are unable to grasp is that if the EC did not exist the candidates would spend all of their time in Ca, NY, Tx, and Fl and there is no way to predict what the result would have been.

What you are unable to grasp is that I've already made that point while you were going

Except that in the actual event I pointed out that as opposed to that Rumpian fantasy concocted by an orange clown who's never run for office before, what would actually happen is that candies would get the **** out of that rut of spending all their time in so-called "swing" states and finally get out to cultivate support where they don't bother to go now, because it would yield greater returns. Those posts are right here in this thread too.

And now you want to reinvent my history too. Poster please. The simple fact is, your invention of positions I've never had, allusions to contradictions I've never drawn and speculations about what I woulda coulda shoulda said if X, Y or Z happens don't amount to a bucket of warm piss. They are a tale waged by an idiot wag, full of sound and fallacy, signifying nothing. Nothing but your own inability to read.

your sig video tells us all we need to know about who and what you are----------------in addition to being the resident liar.

 

[Pogo]

your sig video tells us all we need to know about who and what you are

Thank you. Actually it's a gif, not a video. Or as I like to call it, the gif that keeps on giving. Hilarious, isn't it?
/offtopic

in addition to being the resident liar.

Again ------------------- link?




No, guess not.

 

[Esmeralda]

We need to get rid of it..

It doesn't matter to me.

A douchebag is going to get into the white house either way.

Clinton has won the popular vote by 2 million votes It is clear she should be the president. This country needs to elect it's leader by popular vote. The EC is antiquated and archiac.

 

[peach174]

We need to get rid of it..

It doesn't matter to me.

A douchebag is going to get into the white house either way.

Clinton has won the popular vote by 2 million votes It is clear she should be the president. This country needs to elect it's leader by popular vote. The EC is antiquated and archiac.

Without the E.C. women would have never gotten womens rights, nor slaves.
Think about it: 5 men's vote to 4 women's vote , would mean women would never be represented.
Popular vote would always win.

 

[Redfish]

We need to get rid of it..

It doesn't matter to me.

A douchebag is going to get into the white house either way.

Clinton has won the popular vote by 2 million votes It is clear she should be the president. This country needs to elect it's leader by popular vote. The EC is antiquated and archiac.

so, you would turn our presidential elections over to 4 states? Because without the EC, Ca, Ny, Fl, and TX would decide who becomes president. The residents of the other 46 states would have no voice and their votes would be meaningless. How do you define that as democracy?

Here's an idea, lets do it by counties. Trump won over 3000 counties, HRC won less than 60. How about by congressional districts? Trump wins. Actually the EC is the only way a dem candidate has a chance of winning and you idiots want to dump it.

 

[Pogo]

We need to get rid of it..

It doesn't matter to me.

A douchebag is going to get into the white house either way.

Clinton has won the popular vote by 2 million votes It is clear she should be the president. This country needs to elect it's leader by popular vote. The EC is antiquated and archiac.

Without the E.C. women would have never gotten womens rights, nor slaves.
Think about it: 5 men's vote to 4 women's vote , would mean women would never be represented.
Popular vote would always win.

Actually the opposite is true, and demonstrably so --- the EC worked to keep *both* women and slaves from their voting representation. That's already laid out clearly in this thread.

When it was first cobbled together the Southern slave states who fretted that they might get outvoted by the evil free states got that provision written into the Constitution that allowed them to count their slaves as three-fifths of a person for the calculation of their representation -- which meant more electoral votes -- yet of course those slaves had no vote of their own, and were in effect represented by their owners, whose interests we might imagine were somewhat at variance with that of their slaves.

And when slavery was finally done away with, the Thirteenth Amendment guaranteed that the rights of citizenship could not be denied to citizens including ex-slaves ---- as long as they were male (it says that specifically). So once again another constituency (women) were being counted for the purpose of representation --- which meant more electoral votes --- who once again had no vote for their own interests. A given state had no incentive to allow women to vote, since it would gain them nothing in terms of that representation --- they were already counted anyway.

The EC has always worked to exclude and divide somebody. Today it creates artificial bullshit categories of "red" and "blue" and "swing" states, none of which should exist, none of which would exist without the EC's "winner take all" action (which was, again, adopted to shore up slave state interests) and all of which serve to divide the country into a patchwork of abstract divisors which are completely unnecessary. And within a given state, as exercised it serves to exclude every voter who did not happen to vote the way the majority in their state did, nullifying their vote and, once again, allowing them no vote for their own interests.

It's a pattern that cannot possibly be ignored.

 

[Pogo]

so, you would turn our presidential elections over to 4 states? Because without the EC, Ca, Ny, Fl, and TX would decide who becomes president. The residents of the other 46 states would have no voice and their votes would be meaningless. How do you define that as democracy?

Actually we would turn our presidential elections over to 130 million voters ---- which would actually be a higher number, since turnout would go up because millions more would have a vote that actually counted for something --- a condition the EC now prevents in most states, including yours. The idea that populous states would "dictate" anything is just mathematically absurd, and recalls that same divisive nature of the EC, dividing us up into "red" and "blue" states. I don't see why you don't get that that concept would not exist. California voters did not vote unanimously for a Democrat and Texas voters did not vote unanimously for a Republican. That has never happened, ever, and never will. You know those 6-7 million votes Rump got in NY and CA? Whelp, they would actually COUNT instead of being tossed. And because they would count, more voters would have an avenue to go that way, instead of being told by the EC "don't bother".

STATES don't vote. Nor do counties, districts, parishes or arbitrary colors. PEOPLE vote.

Here's an idea, lets do it by counties. Trump won over 3000 counties, HRC won less than 60. How about by congressional districts? Trump wins. Actually the EC is the only way a dem candidate has a chance of winning and you idiots want to dump it.

Read that back aloud and try to make sense out of it.

 

[peach174]

Our Constitution and Bill of rights gives power to the people of this nation, not the Government.
Whenever a political ideaology that wants to get rid of the people's power ,to overthrow a harmful ideology, who wants to get rid of parts of that document or altogether is what just happened. A overthrow of cultural ideology.
We have new change in political ideology and it deserves to be seen how well or not well it works.
Then we the people can decide how WE want what programs work best or what needs to be gotten rid of.
The majority of this nation is totally fed up with the Political Correctness crowd who are so wrong in many things.
Their power has been taken away from them, because of the way our political election works based on our Constitution.

 

[peach174]

so, you would turn our presidential elections over to 4 states? Because without the EC, Ca, Ny, Fl, and TX would decide who becomes president. The residents of the other 46 states would have no voice and their votes would be meaningless. How do you define that as democracy?

Actually we would turn our presidential elections over to 130 million voters ---- which would actually be a higher number, since turnout would go up because millions more would have a vote that actually counted for something --- a condition the EC now prevents in most states, including yours. The idea that populous states would "dictate" anything is just mathematically absurd, and recalls that same divisive nature of the EC, dividing us up into "red" and "blue" states. I don't see why you don't get that that concept would not exist. California voters did not vote unanimously for a Democrat and Texas voters did not vote unanimously for a Republican. That has never happened, ever, and never will. You know those 6-7 million votes Rump got in NY and CA? Whelp, they would actually COUNT instead of being tossed. And because they would count, more voters would have an avenue to go that way, instead of being told by the EC "don't bother".

STATES don't vote. Nor do counties, districts, parishes or arbitrary colors. PEOPLE vote.

Here's an idea, lets do it by counties. Trump won over 3000 counties, HRC won less than 60. How about by congressional districts? Trump wins. Actually the EC is the only way a dem candidate has a chance of winning and you idiots want to dump it.

Read that back aloud and try to make sense out of it.

Makes perfect sense if you understand it.

 

[BULLDOG]

 

[Pogo]

Our Constitution and Bill of rights gives power to the people of this nation, not the Government.
Whenever a political ideaology that wants to get rid of the people's power ,to overthrow a harmful ideology, who wants to get rid of parts of that document or altogether is what just happened. A overthrow of cultural ideology.
We have new change in political ideology and it deserves to be seen how well or not well it works.
Then we the people can decide how WE want what programs work best or what needs to be gotten rid of.
The majority of this nation is totally fed up with the Political Correctness crowd who are so wrong in many things.
Their power has been taken away from them, because of the way our political election works based on our Constitution.

You can't "overthrow" cultural ideology. Cultural change happens at glacial speed; it is never subject to elections. Not even sure where you were going with this point but you can no more "overthrow" cultural ideology than you can take a hairpin curve with a barge.

 

[Wyatt earp]

We need to get rid of it..

It doesn't matter to me.

A douchebag is going to get into the white house either way.

Clinton has won the popular vote by 2 million votes It is clear she should be the president. This country needs to elect it's leader by popular vote. The EC is antiquated and archiac.

Without the E.C. women would have never gotten womens rights, nor slaves.
Think about it: 5 men's vote to 4 women's vote , would mean women would never be represented.
Popular vote would always win.

Actually the opposite is true, and demonstrably so --- the EC worked to keep *both* women and slaves from their voting representation. That's already laid out clearly in this thread.

When it was first cobbled together the Southern slave states who fretted that they might get outvoted by the evil free states got that provision written into the Constitution that allowed them to count their slaves as three-fifths of a person for the calculation of their representation -- which meant more electoral votes -- yet of course those slaves had no vote of their own, and were in effect represented by their owners, whose interests we might imagine were somewhat at variance with that of their slaves.

And when slavery was finally done away with, the Thirteenth Amendment guaranteed that the rights of citizenship could not be denied to citizens including ex-slaves ---- as long as they were male (it says that specifically). So once again another constituency (women) were being counted for the purpose of representation --- which meant more electoral votes --- who once again had no vote for their own interests. A given state had no incentive to allow women to vote, since it would gain them nothing in terms of that representation --- they were already counted anyway.

The EC has always worked to exclude and divide somebody. Today it creates artificial bullshit categories of "red" and "blue" and "swing" states, none of which should exist, none of which would exist without the EC's "winner take all" action (which was, again, adopted to shore up slave state interests) and all of which serve to divide the country into a patchwork of abstract divisors which are completely unnecessary. And within a given state, as exercised it serves to exclude every voter who did not happen to vote the way the majority in their state did, nullifying their vote and, once again, allowing them no vote for their own interests.

It's a pattern that cannot possibly be ignored.

Agsin you ******* moron we would never ever had been the United states with out the EC..

 

[Esmeralda]

Our Constitution and Bill of rights gives power to the people of this nation, not the Government.
Whenever a political ideaology that wants to get rid of the people's power ,to overthrow a harmful ideology, who wants to get rid of parts of that document or altogether is what just happened. A overthrow of cultural ideology.
We have new change in political ideology and it deserves to be seen how well or not well it works.
Then we the people can decide how WE want what programs work best or what needs to be gotten rid of.
The majority of this nation is totally fed up with the Political Correctness crowd who are so wrong in many things.
Their power has been taken away from them, because of the way our political election works based on our Constitution.

The majority of this nation voted for Hilary Clinton, not Donnie Trump.