Debate Now The Dumbing Down of America

[ChrisL]

They didn't tell us in school that this was just a plan to gain the trust of the indians and that the Pilgrims ambushed and slaughtered the Indians, and just took their food and things. I was kind of angry when I found out I had been lied to all of those years ago and by my own SCHOOL. Imagine that?

 

[Rouge Rover]

Other. They're already learning these things.

Are they? What evidence is there for this?

They teach it in my school and they have ever since I've been there. Sometimes I'm baffled by where you people come up with this stuff.

How can a student judge whether he/she is being taught all the information or is being taught a cherry picked version of it to influence opinion about it?

It's not up to students to judge. They learn the same things today I learned when I was in high school back in the 1980's. I honestly will never understand how you anti-public school people come up with this crap.

Violation of Rule 3. Please direct comments to the member's argument and not any member or members themselves.

That was directed towards your argument. You are claiming students aren't even taught the basics. You've offered nothing to prove that other than a 3:00 minute video, by the way Carson used to do that schtick 40 years ago, and where you're getting your information from is a valid question, I hope it's from more than Facebook videos. So, I repeat, yes they should be taught the basics and fortunately they already are.

 

[Foxfyre]

No. It's not the proper role of government to control how we educate our children.

Amen to that. And that is one component I didn't include in the OP as it was the content and dishonesty in the education materials and teaching methods that bothered me most. But for sure, the federal government was given absolutely no constitutional authority to dictate any rules or regulations or policy for any school or what curriculum the students were to be taught.

For the longest time, I thought Thanksgiving was a nice meal shared between Indians and Pilgrims who were good friends. Lol.

Oh dear. Thanksgiving wasn't a nice meal shared between Indians and Pilgrims who were good friends? Sigh. Actually I think most of us understand that it is a teaching story for children combined of both history and myth with a little creative exaggeration toss into the mix. No harm for the little ones to begin with that, but by high school and college, a meatier history is in order. This website provides a really interesting discussion on that separating the history from the myth without tearing down the whole story:
Teach the Real Story of the "First Thanksgiving"

 

[Rouge Rover]

They teach it in my school and they have ever since I've been there. Sometimes I'm baffled by where you people come up with this stuff.

How can a student judge whether he/she is being taught all the information or is being taught a cherry picked version of it to influence opinion about it?

It's not up to students to judge. They learn the same things today I learned when I was in high school back in the 1980's. I honestly will never understand how you anti-public school people come up with this crap.

My last comment. I don't think it's anti-public school on my part to say I don't feel my kid is getting enough from public school. But I've gotten my kids pre-formed from a bio situation in addition to being in a rural community with less resources than I grew up with living in New York.

If your district is substandard and that's a problem for you then deal with it. How many PTA meetings have you been to within the last year?

Here's the thread rules. I post them for my own benefit because I'm tired and not thinking as clearly as I'd like.

RULES FOR THIS DISCUSSION:
1. Links are allowed but are not required and if used must be summarized in the member's own words.
2. Definitions for this discussion only will be provided by the OP as necessary.
3. Comment on the member's argument only and not directly or indirectly to or about the member making the argumenIn answer to your above suggestion. Activism is helpful. I've addressed bullying in a meeting with the Principal, the School Counselor and some teacher s. I attend all school functions and volunteer at the school. I attend Parent/Teacher confernces. I have three kids in one school and one in the high school.

I'm very busy and I do the best I can. I am in school and have a part time business. I have no time for run for a school board seat. My school is considered the best in the county.

Your school is the best in your county and you're unhappy with it? Why?

 

[Unkotare]

They didn't tell us in school that this was just a plan to gain the trust of the indians and that the Pilgrims ambushed and slaughtered the Indians, and just took their food and things. ......

If you were only told that it would be just as misleading as the more common telling (which is intended for small children before they are old enough to understand the more complex reality of that time and those relations).

 

[Foxfyre]

They didn't tell us in school that this was just a plan to gain the trust of the indians and that the Pilgrims ambushed and slaughtered the Indians, and just took their food and things. I was kind of angry when I found out I had been lied to all of those years ago and by my own SCHOOL. Imagine that?

But is that the story? Or the spin on the story that you were taught in the historical revision in the last 30 years or so?

 

[Unkotare]

... by high school and college, a meatier history is in order. ....

And that "meatier" history is taught.

 

[Foxfyre]

How can a student judge whether he/she is being taught all the information or is being taught a cherry picked version of it to influence opinion about it?

It's not up to students to judge. They learn the same things today I learned when I was in high school back in the 1980's. I honestly will never understand how you anti-public school people come up with this crap.

My last comment. I don't think it's anti-public school on my part to say I don't feel my kid is getting enough from public school. But I've gotten my kids pre-formed from a bio situation in addition to being in a rural community with less resources than I grew up with living in New York.

If your district is substandard and that's a problem for you then deal with it. How many PTA meetings have you been to within the last year?

Here's the thread rules. I post them for my own benefit because I'm tired and not thinking as clearly as I'd like.

RULES FOR THIS DISCUSSION:
1. Links are allowed but are not required and if used must be summarized in the member's own words.
2. Definitions for this discussion only will be provided by the OP as necessary.
3. Comment on the member's argument only and not directly or indirectly to or about the member making the argumenIn answer to your above suggestion. Activism is helpful. I've addressed bullying in a meeting with the Principal, the School Counselor and some teacher s. I attend all school functions and volunteer at the school. I attend Parent/Teacher confernces. I have three kids in one school and one in the high school.

I'm very busy and I do the best I can. I am in school and have a part time business. I have no time for run for a school board seat. My school is considered the best in the county.

Your school is the best in your county and you're unhappy with it? Why?

No harm no foul but do not direct comments to the member directly. Direct comments to the member's post.

 

[Stephanie]

I remember briefly learning about the constitution. We didn't learn a lot of things though, basically skimming over one of the MOST important documents, the Bill of Rights!

we had to pass a test on the preamble to the Constitution in order to advance out of junior high school. that was many moons ago.

snip:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

from:
Guide to the Constitution

 

[Rouge Rover]

It's not up to students to judge. They learn the same things today I learned when I was in high school back in the 1980's. I honestly will never understand how you anti-public school people come up with this crap.

My last comment. I don't think it's anti-public school on my part to say I don't feel my kid is getting enough from public school. But I've gotten my kids pre-formed from a bio situation in addition to being in a rural community with less resources than I grew up with living in New York.

If your district is substandard and that's a problem for you then deal with it. How many PTA meetings have you been to within the last year?

Here's the thread rules. I post them for my own benefit because I'm tired and not thinking as clearly as I'd like.

RULES FOR THIS DISCUSSION:
1. Links are allowed but are not required and if used must be summarized in the member's own words.
2. Definitions for this discussion only will be provided by the OP as necessary.
3. Comment on the member's argument only and not directly or indirectly to or about the member making the argumenIn answer to your above suggestion. Activism is helpful. I've addressed bullying in a meeting with the Principal, the School Counselor and some teacher s. I attend all school functions and volunteer at the school. I attend Parent/Teacher confernces. I have three kids in one school and one in the high school.

I'm very busy and I do the best I can. I am in school and have a part time business. I have no time for run for a school board seat. My school is considered the best in the county.

Your school is the best in your county and you're unhappy with it? Why?

No harm no foul but do not direct comments to the member directly. Direct comments to the member's post.

Fair enough. So where are you getting your information from? I hope it's more than that video.

 

[Dhara]

Are they? What evidence is there for this?

They teach it in my school and they have ever since I've been there. Sometimes I'm baffled by where you people come up with this stuff.

How can a student judge whether he/she is being taught all the information or is being taught a cherry picked version of it to influence opinion about it?

It's not up to students to judge. They learn the same things today I learned when I was in high school back in the 1980's. I honestly will never understand how you anti-public school people come up with this crap.

Violation of Rule 3. Please direct comments to the member's argument and not any member or members themselves.

That was directed towards your argument. You are claiming students aren't even taught the basics. You've offered nothing to prove that other than a 3:00 minute video, by the way Carson used to do that schtick 40 years ago, and where you're getting your information from is a valid question, I hope it's from more than Facebook videos. So, I repeat, yes they should be taught the basics and fortunately they already are.

Maybe the point is that the basics they are taught may need some fluffing up. I have previously seen an argument, (not in this thread) that people should not even get to vote if they don't have a Masters level or above understanding of history and civics.

That I disagree with. That's elitism.

 

[Foxfyre]

... by high school and college, a meatier history is in order. ....

And that "meatier" history is taught.

Yes. But as I referenced in the discussion on this topic, there are three main versions. The version of common history plus myth we all were taught as kids; the version the left wing educational institutions and media want us to believe now; and the version as it actually was as nearly as we can determine from the ancient records. IMO those who want to be really educated do the homework to sort out the difference between those three versions.

 

[Foxfyre]

My last comment. I don't think it's anti-public school on my part to say I don't feel my kid is getting enough from public school. But I've gotten my kids pre-formed from a bio situation in addition to being in a rural community with less resources than I grew up with living in New York.

If your district is substandard and that's a problem for you then deal with it. How many PTA meetings have you been to within the last year?

Here's the thread rules. I post them for my own benefit because I'm tired and not thinking as clearly as I'd like.

RULES FOR THIS DISCUSSION:
1. Links are allowed but are not required and if used must be summarized in the member's own words.
2. Definitions for this discussion only will be provided by the OP as necessary.
3. Comment on the member's argument only and not directly or indirectly to or about the member making the argumenIn answer to your above suggestion. Activism is helpful. I've addressed bullying in a meeting with the Principal, the School Counselor and some teacher s. I attend all school functions and volunteer at the school. I attend Parent/Teacher confernces. I have three kids in one school and one in the high school.

I'm very busy and I do the best I can. I am in school and have a part time business. I have no time for run for a school board seat. My school is considered the best in the county.

Your school is the best in your county and you're unhappy with it? Why?

No harm no foul but do not direct comments to the member directly. Direct comments to the member's post.

Fair enough. So where are you getting your information from? I hope it's more than that video.

Do not direct comments to the member. Direct comments to the member's post. This is the fourth warning.

 

[Stephanie]

If your district is substandard and that's a problem for you then deal with it. How many PTA meetings have you been to within the last year?

Here's the thread rules. I post them for my own benefit because I'm tired and not thinking as clearly as I'd like.

RULES FOR THIS DISCUSSION:
1. Links are allowed but are not required and if used must be summarized in the member's own words.
2. Definitions for this discussion only will be provided by the OP as necessary.
3. Comment on the member's argument only and not directly or indirectly to or about the member making the argumenIn answer to your above suggestion. Activism is helpful. I've addressed bullying in a meeting with the Principal, the School Counselor and some teacher s. I attend all school functions and volunteer at the school. I attend Parent/Teacher confernces. I have three kids in one school and one in the high school.

I'm very busy and I do the best I can. I am in school and have a part time business. I have no time for run for a school board seat. My school is considered the best in the county.

Your school is the best in your county and you're unhappy with it? Why?

No harm no foul but do not direct comments to the member directly. Direct comments to the member's post.

Fair enough. So where are you getting your information from? I hope it's more than that video.

Do not direct comments to the member. Direct comments to the member's post. This is the fourth warning.

You're a mean woman today.

j/k dear...LOL

 

[Dhara]

How can a student judge whether he/she is being taught all the information or is being taught a cherry picked version of it to influence opinion about it?

It's not up to students to judge. They learn the same things today I learned when I was in high school back in the 1980's. I honestly will never understand how you anti-public school people come up with this crap.

My last comment. I don't think it's anti-public school on my part to say I don't feel my kid is getting enough from public school. But I've gotten my kids pre-formed from a bio situation in addition to being in a rural community with less resources than I grew up with living in New York.

If your district is substandard and that's a problem for you then deal with it. How many PTA meetings have you been to within the last year?

Here's the thread rules. I post them for my own benefit because I'm tired and not thinking as clearly as I'd like.

RULES FOR THIS DISCUSSION:
1. Links are allowed but are not required and if used must be summarized in the member's own words.
2. Definitions for this discussion only will be provided by the OP as necessary.
3. Comment on the member's argument only and not directly or indirectly to or about the member making the argumenIn answer to your above suggestion. Activism is helpful. I've addressed bullying in a meeting with the Principal, the School Counselor and some teacher s. I attend all school functions and volunteer at the school. I attend Parent/Teacher confernces. I have three kids in one school and one in the high school.

I'm very busy and I do the best I can. I am in school and have a part time business. I have no time for run for a school board seat. My school is considered the best in the county.

Your school is the best in your county and you're unhappy with it? Why?

Most likely I'm unhappy with it because I'm a competivie parent and don't control all the variables. I do see that some kids, by virtue of their circumstances, succeed very well, (middle class, two parent, old families) while others lag behind. It seems class related to me.

Part of it is a struggle on my side to help my kids catch up from their earlier childhood circumstances.

 

[Dhara]

They didn't tell us in school that this was just a plan to gain the trust of the indians and that the Pilgrims ambushed and slaughtered the Indians, and just took their food and things. I was kind of angry when I found out I had been lied to all of those years ago and by my own SCHOOL. Imagine that?

But is that the story? Or the spin on the story that you were taught in the historical revision in the last 30 years or so?

Spin on the story? Or new information? Such as the Native People's version of what happened in their tribles instead of textbook white folks version.

 

[ChrisL]

No. It's not the proper role of government to control how we educate our children.

Amen to that. And that is one component I didn't include in the OP as it was the content and dishonesty in the education materials and teaching methods that bothered me most. But for sure, the federal government was given absolutely no constitutional authority to dictate any rules or regulations or policy for any school or what curriculum the students were to be taught.

For the longest time, I thought Thanksgiving was a nice meal shared between Indians and Pilgrims who were good friends. Lol.

Oh dear. Thanksgiving wasn't a nice meal shared between Indians and Pilgrims who were good friends? Sigh. Actually I think most of us understand that it is a teaching story for children combined of both history and myth with a little creative exaggeration toss into the mix. No harm for the little ones to begin with that, but by high school and college, a meatier history is in order. This website provides a really interesting discussion on that separating the history from the myth without tearing down the whole story:
Teach the Real Story of the "First Thanksgiving"

We never talked about Thanksgiving once out of grade school.

 

[Foxfyre]

Here's yet another version of the history that may or may not be familiar to members on this thread with a completely different twist that the Indians might have crashed the first Thanksgiving instead of being invited. How to know if this is the right version?

Did the Indians Gatecrash Thanksgiving?

 

[Foxfyre]

No. It's not the proper role of government to control how we educate our children.

Amen to that. And that is one component I didn't include in the OP as it was the content and dishonesty in the education materials and teaching methods that bothered me most. But for sure, the federal government was given absolutely no constitutional authority to dictate any rules or regulations or policy for any school or what curriculum the students were to be taught.

For the longest time, I thought Thanksgiving was a nice meal shared between Indians and Pilgrims who were good friends. Lol.

Oh dear. Thanksgiving wasn't a nice meal shared between Indians and Pilgrims who were good friends? Sigh. Actually I think most of us understand that it is a teaching story for children combined of both history and myth with a little creative exaggeration toss into the mix. No harm for the little ones to begin with that, but by high school and college, a meatier history is in order. This website provides a really interesting discussion on that separating the history from the myth without tearing down the whole story:
Teach the Real Story of the "First Thanksgiving"

We never talked about Thanksgiving once out of grade school.

Nor did my generation as much as I can remember. But I do know there are a lot of versions of the supposed revised history out there and it is wise not to trust any one source all that much.

 

[Unkotare]

the version as it actually was as nearly as we can determine from the ancient records. ...

That IS taught - now.