The Doctrine of Hell

[OneIsTheWord]

Jeremiah 18:1-4​

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New International Version​

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At the Potter’s House​

18 This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord: 2 “Go down to the potter’s house, and there I will give you my message.”3 So I went down to the potter’s house, and I saw him working at the wheel. 4 But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred in his hands; so the potter formed it into another pot, shaping it as seemed best to him.


So what you are saying is God makes criminals so Christians can kill them in legitimate self defense.

Christians do not kill no one, but they are to be fear of
Romans 9:14-24 (NKJV) What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
The Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth."
Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?"
But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"
Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[konradv]

I find the notion of eternal punishment to be incongruent with a merciful God. If He created imperfect beings, how can they be condemned eternally for being imperfect?

 

[Batcat]

Christians do not kill no one, but they are to be fear of
Romans 9:14-24 (NKJV) What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
The Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth."
Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?"
But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"
Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

The basic question is can a person kill in legitimate self defense. You are good at quoting scripture but seem afraid to express your own opinion of what the Bible says.

My question is simple. Do you believe a man has the right to kill in legitimate self defense, or to kill an attacker of a another person
to prevent serious injury or death? Or if in the military does a person have the right to kill an enemy?



bible.verses on self defesne

 

[OneIsTheWord]

I find the notion of eternal punishment to be incongruent with a merciful God. If He created imperfect beings, how can they be condemned eternally for being imperfect?

simplicity

 

[Meriweather]

I find the notion of eternal punishment to be incongruent with a merciful God.

If you wanted something with all your heart, mind, and soul, would you let mere punishment thwart you?

Hell is the choice of remaining apart from God. For those who wish to be with God, being kept away from Him sounds like punishment. For those who have no wish to be anywhere near God, it is a choice heeded.

 

[OneIsTheWord]

The basic question is can a person kill in legitimate self defense. You are good at quoting scripture but seem afraid to express your own opinion of what the Bible says.

My question is simple. Do you believe a man has the right to kill in legitimate self defense, or to kill an attacker of a another person
to prevent serious injury or death? Or if in the military does a person have the right to kill an enemy?



bible.verses on self defesne

Ecclesiastes 3:1-11 (NKJV) To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven:
A time to be born, And a time to die; A time to plant, And a time to pluck what is planted;
A time to kill, And a time to heal; A time to break down, And a time to build up;
A time to weep, And a time to laugh; A time to mourn, And a time to dance;
A time to cast away stones, And a time to gather stones; A time to embrace, And a time to refrain from embracing;
time to gain, And a time to lose; A time to keep, And a time to throw away;
A time to tear, And a time to sew; A time to keep silence, And a time to speak;
A time to love, And a time to hate; A time of war, And a time of peace.
What profit has the worker from that in which he labors?
I have seen the God-given task with which the sons of men are to be occupied.
He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also He has put eternity in their hearts, except that no one can find out the work that God does from beginning to end.

 

[konradv]

If you wanted something with all your heart, mind, and soul, would you let mere punishment thwart you?

Hell is the choice of remaining apart from God. For those who wish to be with God, being kept away from Him sounds like punishment. For those who have no wish to be anywhere near God, it is a choice heeded.

That doesn’t really answer my question. Do imperfect beings really merit eternal punishment for being imperfect?

 

[Meriweather]

That doesn’t really answer my question. Do imperfect beings really merit eternal punishment for being imperfect?

I am going to answer a question with two questions:

Do you believe imperfect beings merit eternal punishment for being imperfect?
What do you believe merits eternal punishment?

And a third bonus question: Why do you think people shove onto God something they themselves would not consider doing?

 

[konradv]

I am going to answer a question with two questions:

Do you believe imperfect begins merit eternal punishment for being imperfect?
What do you believe merits eternal punishment?

And a third bonus question: Why do you think people shove onto God something they themselves would not consider doing?

Nothing merits eternal punishment, if God is to be considered merciful. You answer the other two questions.

 

[Batcat]

Ecclesiastes 3:1-11 (NKJV) To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven:
A time to be born, And a time to die; A time to plant, And a time to pluck what is planted;
A time to kill, And a time to heal; A time to break down, And a time to build up;
A time to weep, And a time to laugh; A time to mourn, And a time to dance;
A time to cast away stones, And a time to gather stones; A time to embrace, And a time to refrain from embracing;
time to gain, And a time to lose; A time to keep, And a time to throw away;
A time to tear, And a time to sew; A time to keep silence, And a time to speak;
A time to love, And a time to hate; A time of war, And a time of peace.
What profit has the worker from that in which he labors?
I have seen the God-given task with which the sons of men are to be occupied.
He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also He has put eternity in their hearts, except that no one can find out the work that God does from beginning to end.

Why are you afraid to voice an opinion? I have no intention of ridiculing you. I am merely curious of your opinion on the subject.

Let’s suppose a man breaks into your home and is attacking you with a large knife. Do you pull out your Bible and read from it to him? Do you fall down on your knees and pray for mercy? Do you pick up a table chair and use it to block his approach? Do you throw a can of beans at him? Do you grab a butcher knife and fight back? Do you grab a firearm and shoot him?

 

[Meriweather]

Nothing merits eternal punishment, if God is to be considered merciful. You answer the other two questions.

Then we agree imperfect beings do not merit eternal punishment. We can also conclude that God feels the same.

My second question is, What does merit eternal punishment? First, do you agree with me that "punishment" equates to "separation from society"? If so, then the everlasting wicked should be separated from everlasting goodness. Good should be separated from evil; or, conversely, one might say evil should be separated from good. They do not do well together.

Answer to the third question: People don't take enough time to seek and find God, so they make do with imagining what He might be like.

 

[OneIsTheWord]

The basic question is can a person kill in legitimate self defense. You are good at quoting scripture but seem afraid to express your own opinion of what the Bible says.

My question is simple. Do you believe a man has the right to kill in legitimate self defense, or to kill an attacker of a another person
to prevent serious injury or death? Or if in the military does a person have the right to kill an enemy?



bible.verses on self defesne

Taking a life

Genesis 9:6 (NKJV) Whoever sheds man's blood, By man, his blood shall be shed; For in the image of God, He made man.

Genesis 9:5 Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast, I will require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man's brother, I will require the life of man.

Note Genesis 9:6 For, in the image of God, He made man.

Genesis 1:26-27 (KJV) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and overall the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created them.

Responsibility
Deuteronomy 24:16 A father shall not be put to death for their children, nor shall the children be put to death for their fathers; a person shall be put to death for his own sin.

Note Remember in Genesis 9:6 For, in the image of God, He made man

Self-defense and killing
Matthew 26:52 (NKJV) But Jesus said to him, "Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
Note "Put your gun in its place, for all who take the gun will perish by the gun.
Matthew 5: 21; 19: 18.
Romans 13: 9.
Gen. 9: 5-6.
1John 3:15.
Ex. 21: 14; 8:24.
Gen. 4: 8-23.
Gen. 9: 5,6.
Lev. 24: 21.
Num. 35: 16-34.
Dut. 5: 17.
Dut. 19: 11-13.
2 kinds 21:6.
Jer. 26: 21.
Matthews 5.22.

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[OneIsTheWord]

Why are you afraid to voice an opinion? I have no intention of ridiculing you. I am merely curious of your opinion on the subject.

Let’s suppose a man breaks into your home and is attacking you with a large knife. Do you pull out your Bible and read from it to him? Do you fall down on your knees and pray for mercy? Do you pick up a table chair and use it to block his approach? Do you throw a can of beans at him? Do you grab a butcher knife and fight back? Do you grab a firearm and shoot him?

yes my opinion is to reconcile with each other before you guys white each other out

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[OneIsTheWord]

US Military Men & Women

2 Timothy 2:3-5 (NKJV) You therefore must endure hardship as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier.
And also if anyone competes in athletics, he is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules.

 

[Batcat]

yes my opinion is to reconcile with each other before you guys white each other out
View attachment 630612​

So the intruder is in your house and slashing at you with his knife.

Seriously, how do you try to reconcile with him?

I seem to remember a story where a female robbery or rape victim convinced her assailant let her live by reading to him from a bible but I can't find it on the net.

 

[OneIsTheWord]

So the intruder is in your house and slashing at you with his knife.

Seriously, how do you try to reconcile with him?

I seem to remember a story where a female robbery or rape victim convinced her assailant let her live by reading to him from a bible but I can't find it on the net.

if you feel that way go to the Capita, knock on Nancy Pelosi's office

and ask her female are robbery or rape victim convinced her assailant to let her live by reading the constitution but I can't find it on the net.

 

[Batcat]

if you feel that way go to the Capita, knock on Nancy Pelosi's office
View attachment 630669
and ask her female are robbery or rape victim convinced her assailant to let her live by reading the constitution but I can't find it on the net.

I didn’t say that I would try reading the Bible to a man who was attacking me with a knife.

If I could reach one of my handguns I would shoot him. If not I would try to disarm him using jujitsu which I learned years ago or I might counter his attack with my own knife. I always have a knife on me or near me.

I notice you still are avoiding directly answering my question of what you would do if attacked in your home by an intruder armed with a knife. What do you mean by saying you would attempt to reconcile with him?

 

[OneIsTheWord]

I didn’t say that I would try reading the Bible to a man who was attacking me with a knife.

If I could reach one of my handguns I would shoot him. If not I would try to disarm him using jujitsu which I learned years ago or I might counter his attack with my own knife. I always have a knife on me or near me.

I notice you still are avoiding directly answering my question of what you would do if attacked in your home by an intruder armed with a knife. What do you mean by saying you would attempt to reconcile with him?

number one I would never put myself in any position to be harmed or to harm another human being.
In self-defense, I would license and train myself in hand to hand combat
There are many ways to defend yourself, hopefully, never use a handgun
The Bible is God's way of how a man conducts his or her life, and the consequence of life

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[OneIsTheWord]

Be Kind
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[Batcat]

number one I would never put myself in any position to be harmed or to harm another human being.
In self-defense, I would license and train myself in hand to hand combat
There are many ways to defend yourself, hopefully, never use a handgun
The Bible is God's way of how a man conducts his or her life, and the consequence of life

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I find your statement that you would “never put myself in any position to be harmed or to harm another human” as very interesting. Do you hide inside a fort? You also say you would “license and train yourself In hand to hand combat.” My advise is to find a good instructor and attend his classes. You will learn far more.

You often can avoid bad situations by using commonsense and practicing “situational awareness“ which mainly means being aware of your surroundings instead of talking on your cell phone.

The best way to survive a fight is to not get into one. If the hairs on the back of your neck stand up it might be a good idea to leave wherever you are at.

However you can do everything right and still be a victim.

I took a jujitsu course many years ago. It was primarily a self defense course that included techniques from jujitsu, karate, aikido and judo.

We spent much of our class time learnig techniques for disarming an attacker.

It is possible to disarm an inexperienced attacker armed with a knife without much problem but you will likely get cut. It is far more difficult to disarm an experienced knife fighter.

Disarming a person who is holding a firearm and is foolish enough to stand within arms reach is, in my opinion, easier than disarming a knife fighter. The problem is how to disarm a person holding a firearm beyond arm‘s reach, say at ten feet from you. The instructor taught us to do a judo rollout to get within arm’s reach and then use the close range techniques we had learned. He said we had about a 50/50 chance of success.

The instructor was a seventh degree black belt in judo (red and white belt) but told us he would consider a man armed with a .45 auto as an 8th degree black belt. He advised us to only use the techniques he taught when we were certain an attacker intended to kill or seriously injure us. If, for example, all he wanted was our wallet the instructor’s advice was to just give it to him. It is easier to replace your wallet, credit cards and driver‘s license than your life. He also recommended carrying a throw away wallet with out dated credit cards and a little cash.

I lived in a rough neighborhood in Tampa that had went downhill over the years. Several times I witnessed cops with drawn firearms chasing a person within walking distance of my home. Two store clerks were shot dead near my home. There was a drive by shooting two houses from down from my home. The young man who lived there ran a gang and eventually was arrested for shooting his girl friend in the head. There were witnesses but they refused to testify as they feared this kid. He served time for manslaughter rather than murder.

A couple years after “shall issue” concealed carry passed in Florida I decided to get a concealed weapons permit and carry a snub nosed revolver on a regular basis. When I retired I moved to a more rural area of Florida but I still carry out of habit.

In my opinion the Bible is not opposed to killing in self defense or while in the military in combat.

After all Jesus was not totally opposed to carrying a sword, the handgun of his day.

“Then Jesus said, ‘When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?’ ‘Nothing,’ they answered. He said to them, ‘But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.’” The disciples then produce two swords, which prompts Jesus to respond, “That’s enough!” (NIV Luke 22:35-38)

In passing I still remember much of what I learned in the self defense course I took but now am 75 and not in fighting shape. At my age many people are injured by falling. I learned how to fall when talking the jujitsu course as it incorporated many judo throws. In the last couple years I have fallen several times and the training on how to fall kicked in and I was not injured.