The Dilemma Black Athletes Find Themselves In

[Asclepias]

Ali told white people what he wasn't going to do in emphatic and spectacular fashion. Thats a man. Your boyfriend Drumpf claimed he had bone spurs and got 5 deferments. Thats what you call a wimp.

I didn't perceive what Ali did as "telling White people what he wasn't going to do" so much as him having the personal integrity to stand up to the corrupt, incompetent, self-serving demagogues in government and tell them he wasn't going to risk dying to kill people whom we had absolutely no good reason to fight and to kill. In his brief statement of bold refusal he awakened millions of Americans to something they were not conscious of.

But, again, that was the 1960s and the race situation in America was vastly different from what it is today. It was a very different Country.

Thats fine but I didnt ask you what you perceived. I told anyone that chose to read or listen to what Ali said thats exactly what he did. If you think saying "white boy I'd rather die fighting you than fighting for you" is not telling white people he wasnt going to do it then thats for you to work out for yourself. I'm not here to convince you. I'm just relaying the information.

 

[Asclepias]

What charity did Colin have before he took a knee

This one for starters dummy.

Colin Kaepernick Continues Charitable Work for Camp Taylor


Kaepernick has been a big supporter of Camp Taylor ever since he joined the NFL in 2011. The 49ers signal-caller often visits Camp Taylor's "Heart Camp" and he continues to help raise funds for the charity.

 

[Asclepias]

Wrong. He was a draft dodger who was convicted and served jail time for his crime; and rightly so. He simply didn't have the courage to do his duty as a citizen. No way to spin that.

Ali served no jail time you moron.He was simply stripped of his title which he regained in spectacular fashion.

And he

You obviously know nothing about the sport.

And a draft dodger. Even if he went to jail "for his beliefs", he still dodged the draft.

There is a difference between being a draft dodger and a concientous objector. Feel free to use Google.

There mostly certainly is and Ali (or Clay before he changed his name) was a draft dodger because he refused induction. Conscientious Objectors actually served in the military and in Vietnam and many received awards for valor. They refused to fight; not serve. Draft dodgers like Ali only served to give actual conscientious objectors shameful reputations as childish wimps.

Ali told white people what he wasn't going to do in emphatic and spectacular fashion. Thats a man. Your boyfriend Drumpf claimed he had bone spurs and got 5 deferments. Thats what you call a wimp.

WTF do you know about the draft or deferments? Nothing at all less than honorable about having a deferment. Nothing at all honorable about refusing to do your duty. Ali wimped out. End of story.

In Drumpfs case he was a *****. Especially when he talked shit about McCain. Drumpfs a ******* wimp of a coward.

 

[katsteve2012]

It really is a shame how so many have been brought up to be consumed by their skin color.

People deserve better than that.

One shining example of us having better than that was Cassius Clay, aka Muhammad Ali, one of the finest athletes in my recollection and a deservedly proud Black man. He was one of a kind and there never has been anyone, Black or White, who came close to his athletic achievement and his sense of dignity.

He was a loud-mouthed fool who never knew when to stop. Boxing OR talking. Mike Tyson would have eaten him for lunch.

That remains to be seen and I strongly disagree. Ali's style was graceful avoidance of exactly what Tyson depended on -- which is clumsy brute strength. I believe Ali would have tired him out and chopped him down, which is the opinion of every major boxing critic who ever commented on that prospect.

He couldn't have rope-a-doped Tyson, Mike would have landed one big one and it would have been lights out. Like Joe Frazier's punch that knocked him backwards on his ass, except if Tyson tags him like that, he takes a while to wake up.

Are you serious? George Foreman and Earnie Shavers BOTH had higher K.O percentages than Tyson and both had longer careers and faced a better quality of opposition than Tyson ever did.

When Tyson fought a fighter who had no fear, backed him up with the jab then tied him up on the inside, he fell apart....watch the replays of his matches with Buster Douglas and Evander Holyfield and learn something.

 

[JQPublic1]

Wrong. He was a draft dodger who was convicted and served jail time for his crime; and rightly so. He simply didn't have the courage to do his duty as a citizen. No way to spin that.

Ali served no jail time you moron.He was simply stripped of his title which he regained in spectacular fashion.

And he

You obviously know nothing about the sport.

And a draft dodger. Even if he went to jail "for his beliefs", he still dodged the draft.

There is a difference between being a draft dodger and a concientous objector. Feel free to use Google.

There mostly certainly is and Ali (or Clay before he changed his name) was a draft dodger because he refused induction. Conscientious Objectors actually served in the military and in Vietnam and many received awards for valor. They refused to fight; not serve. Draft dodgers like Ali only served to give actual conscientious objectors shameful reputations as childish wimps.

Somehow the word "wimp" just doesn't fly as a description of ALI. Any man who could face
and defeat some of the bigges, meanest, hardest hitting humans on the planet is a hero
that demands respect just by the courage he showed. But to give up millions of dollars and a championship title you worked your whole life for to uphold a principle is so profound it
places Ali on a level with MLK and Malcolm X.
The greatness of that moment even overshadows his boxing prowess.

How silly! The only principle he upheld was that of keeping his ass as far out of harm's way as possible. Prize fighting is a game; he couldn't handle even the possibility of real fighting. Because he was too frightened to do his duty someone else had to be sent in his place. That person was far far closer to being an actual hero.

Ali was black. Being black gave him far more of a license to serve the morally superior interests of his black community than to serve the hegemonic interests of the dominant white society. Considering the overwhelming resistance to civil rights and black inclusion in societal norms Ali brought it all to the surface. That outweighed
any loyalty you might have thought he owed to white America.

 

[JQPublic1]

It really is a shame how so many have been brought up to be consumed by their skin color.

People deserve better than that.

One shining example of us having better than that was Cassius Clay, aka Muhammad Ali, one of the finest athletes in my recollection and a deservedly proud Black man. He was one of a kind and there never has been anyone, Black or White, who came close to his athletic achievement and his sense of dignity.

He was a loud-mouthed fool who never knew when to stop. Boxing OR talking. Mike Tyson would have eaten him for lunch.

That remains to be seen and I strongly disagree. Ali's style was graceful avoidance of exactly what Tyson depended on -- which is clumsy brute strength. I believe Ali would have tired him out and chopped him down, which is the opinion of every major boxing critic who ever commented on that prospect.

He couldn't have rope-a-doped Tyson, Mike would have landed one big one and it would have been lights out. Like Joe Frazier's punch that knocked him backwards on his ass, except if Tyson tags him like that, he takes a while to wake up.

Are you serious? George Foreman and Earnie Shavers BOTH had higher K.O percentages than Tyson and both had longer careers and faced a better quality of opposition than Tyson ever did.

When Tyson fought a fighter who had no fear, backed him up with the jab then tied him up on the inside, he fell apart....watch the replays of his matches with Buster Douglas and Evander Holyfield and learn something.

And just for kicks add Lennox Lewis in there...

 

[BlackSand]

When did you enlist? And why?

1998 ... I was scared I was going to waste the hard earned money my parents had saved to send me to college.
Told them to take my college money and go on vacation in Europe ... I would earn my own way with the GI Bill.

Best decision I ever made ... For the good times and the bad.

.

 

[katsteve2012]

Ali served no jail time you moron.He was simply stripped of his title which he regained in spectacular fashion.

And he

And a draft dodger. Even if he went to jail "for his beliefs", he still dodged the draft.

There is a difference between being a draft dodger and a concientous objector. Feel free to use Google.

There mostly certainly is and Ali (or Clay before he changed his name) was a draft dodger because he refused induction. Conscientious Objectors actually served in the military and in Vietnam and many received awards for valor. They refused to fight; not serve. Draft dodgers like Ali only served to give actual conscientious objectors shameful reputations as childish wimps.

Somehow the word "wimp" just doesn't fly as a description of ALI. Any man who could face
and defeat some of the bigges, meanest, hardest hitting humans on the planet is a hero
that demands respect just by the courage he showed. But to give up millions of dollars and a championship title you worked your whole life for to uphold a principle is so profound it
places Ali on a level with MLK and Malcolm X.
The greatness of that moment even overshadows his boxing prowess.

How silly! The only principle he upheld was that of keeping his ass as far out of harm's way as possible. Prize fighting is a game; he couldn't handle even the possibility of real fighting. Because he was too frightened to do his duty someone else had to be sent in his place. That person was far far closer to being an actual hero.

Ali was black. Being black gave him far more of a license to serve the interests of his black community than to serve the purient interests of the dominant white society. Considering the overwhelming resistance to civil rights and black inclusion in societal norms Ali brought it all to the surface. That outweighed
any loyalty you might have thought he owed to white America.

Furthermore Ali was born black in an era in a southern state, that gave him legitimate reasons for not having any vested interest in shooting at the Vietnamese.....his worst enemies were right here in America.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Nothing racist about expecting employees to do the job they are being paid to do.

What part of the recruitment process tested their hand over heart speed?

 

[katsteve2012]

One shining example of us having better than that was Cassius Clay, aka Muhammad Ali, one of the finest athletes in my recollection and a deservedly proud Black man. He was one of a kind and there never has been anyone, Black or White, who came close to his athletic achievement and his sense of dignity.

He was a loud-mouthed fool who never knew when to stop. Boxing OR talking. Mike Tyson would have eaten him for lunch.

That remains to be seen and I strongly disagree. Ali's style was graceful avoidance of exactly what Tyson depended on -- which is clumsy brute strength. I believe Ali would have tired him out and chopped him down, which is the opinion of every major boxing critic who ever commented on that prospect.

He couldn't have rope-a-doped Tyson, Mike would have landed one big one and it would have been lights out. Like Joe Frazier's punch that knocked him backwards on his ass, except if Tyson tags him like that, he takes a while to wake up.

Are you serious? George Foreman and Earnie Shavers BOTH had higher K.O percentages than Tyson and both had longer careers and faced a better quality of opposition than Tyson ever did.

When Tyson fought a fighter who had no fear, backed him up with the jab then tied him up on the inside, he fell apart....watch the replays of his matches with Buster Douglas and Evander Holyfield and learn something.

And just for kicks add Lennox Lewis in there...

Thanks JQ. I forgot all about that one. And I was actually at ringside for that fight

 

[ClosedCaption]

What charity did Colin have before he took a knee

This one for starters dummy.

Colin Kaepernick Continues Charitable Work for Camp Taylor


Kaepernick has been a big supporter of Camp Taylor ever since he joined the NFL in 2011. The 49ers signal-caller often visits Camp Taylor's "Heart Camp" and he continues to help raise funds for the charity.

Yeah but uh, tell us what Kap did for um....the Robinsons in Chicago? Nothing?! Thats what I thought!!!! Rabble

 

[9thIDdoc]

When did you enlist? And why?

1968. I was drafted.

I enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1956. My reason for doing so was genuine, unmitigated, patriotic pride which derived mainly from my father's and two uncles' service in the Pacific in WW-II. Luckily I was immune from being conscripted for Vietnam, but if I wasn't I honestly don't know what I would have done if I wasn't immune and had been drafted for that criminal fiasco.

Enlisting the the Marines is a statement that one is ready and willing to fight and die for his country, so there was no question about my patriotism and loyalty. But by 1963, which is when the Vietnam draft started, I had become sufficiently informed to be aware that our military actions in Vietnam were not only unnecessary but wasteful and plainly detrimental to the purpose and the reputation of the U.S. Armed Forces. This was well-known to the well-informed segment of Americans. So, again, I honestly don't know what I would have done. I think I would have been a draft-card burner.[/QUOTE]

Informed? Misinformed? Or simply looking for an excuse? What makes an individual think that his relatively uninformed opinion deserves to trump that of those who we elect and have the job of making such determinations? Should the tail wag the dog?
Being a United States citizen carries many benefits. It also carries some responsibilities one of which is being willing to serve our Nation if called to do so. Those who refuse the responsibilities do not deserve the benefits. Draft dodgers should forfeit their citizenship.

 

[9thIDdoc]

And he
There is a difference between being a draft dodger and a concientous objector. Feel free to use Google.

There mostly certainly is and Ali (or Clay before he changed his name) was a draft dodger because he refused induction. Conscientious Objectors actually served in the military and in Vietnam and many received awards for valor. They refused to fight; not serve. Draft dodgers like Ali only served to give actual conscientious objectors shameful reputations as childish wimps.

Somehow the word "wimp" just doesn't fly as a description of ALI. Any man who could face
and defeat some of the bigges, meanest, hardest hitting humans on the planet is a hero
that demands respect just by the courage he showed. But to give up millions of dollars and a championship title you worked your whole life for to uphold a principle is so profound it
places Ali on a level with MLK and Malcolm X.
The greatness of that moment even overshadows his boxing prowess.

How silly! The only principle he upheld was that of keeping his ass as far out of harm's way as possible. Prize fighting is a game; he couldn't handle even the possibility of real fighting. Because he was too frightened to do his duty someone else had to be sent in his place. That person was far far closer to being an actual hero.

Ali was black. Being black gave him far more of a license to serve the interests of his black community than to serve the purient interests of the dominant white society. Considering the overwhelming resistance to civil rights and black inclusion in societal norms Ali brought it all to the surface. That outweighed
any loyalty you might have thought he owed to white America.

Furthermore Ali was born black in an era in a southern state, that gave him legitimate reasons for not having any vested interest in shooting at the Vietnamese.....his worst enemies were right here in America.

Bullshit. Being drafted doesn't give anyone a "vested interest" in shooting at anyone. Being born anywhere and of any race doesn't give any one a "legitimate reason" for anything. Enemies? What enemies? American society allowed him to become wealthy and respected. He was totally free to renounce his citizenship and/or leave. He didn't.

 

[katsteve2012]

Bullshit? Here is some REAL bullshit for you.
Ali went to the Olympics in Rome, won a gold medal for THIS country, amd returned home and could not even get waited on in a greasy spoon in the shithole of a town (Louisville Ky) where he lived!

Bullshit? He was a an American champion who could not purchase a home wherever he wanted to because of his race.


"American society" reviled him and his religion and collectively could not understand his reasoning for joining the Nation of Islam.

I could go on, but that is more than enough fucked up bullshit to justify his decision NOT to serve, and proves that his real enemies were right here

SMGDH.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

When you morons get done redefining all American age old phrases let us know so we'll know how to talk to you.

Thanks for calling a spade a spade

 

[leftwinger]

It really is a shame how so many have been brought up to be consumed by their skin color.

People deserve better than that.

One shining example of us having better than that was Cassius Clay, aka Muhammad Ali, one of the finest athletes in my recollection and a deservedly proud Black man. He was one of a kind and there never has been anyone, Black or White, who came close to his athletic achievement and his sense of dignity.

He was a loud-mouthed fool who never knew when to stop. Boxing OR talking. Mike Tyson would have eaten him for lunch.

That remains to be seen and I strongly disagree. Ali's style was graceful avoidance of exactly what Tyson depended on -- which is clumsy brute strength. I believe Ali would have tired him out and chopped him down, which is the opinion of every major boxing critic who ever commented on that prospect.

He couldn't have rope-a-doped Tyson, Mike would have landed one big one and it would have been lights out. Like Joe Frazier's punch that knocked him backwards on his ass, except if Tyson tags him like that, he takes a while to wake up.

I am not sure. He was the Greatest of his time, probably ALL-TIME. He invented smack talk. He was a giant of his time. Nobody could shut him up. an American Treasure. Entertainment 24-7

 

[Correll]

It really is a shame how so many have been brought up to be consumed by their skin color.

People deserve better than that.

It really is unreal how so many attack an entire race by the actions of the few, especially when their actions reflect the best of our nation - a demand for equal protection. Racist need to hate, and make up reasons to do so. I wonder how many racists really believe the actions of Kap. and his brothers believe the divisive spin Trump has put upon their demand for equal protection under the law?

One needs to be pretty damn stupid to believe trump's spin, or in fact anything he says. With trump, don't trust and always verify!

What?

Oh, you mean when they refused to stand for the Anthem?

First of all, our reaction has nothing to do with his/their skin color.

It has to do with them being anti-American pieces of shit.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Bullshit? Here is some REAL bullshit for you.
Ali went to the Olympics in Rome, won a gold medal for THIS country, amd returned home and could not even get waited on in a greasy spoon in the shithole of town (Louisville Ky) where he lived!

Bullshit? He was a an American champion who could not purchase a home wherever he wanted to because of his race.


"American society" reviled him and his religion and collectively could not understand his reasoning for joining the Nation of Islam.

I could go on, but that is more than enough fucked up bullshit to justify his decision NOT to serve, and proves that his real enemies were right here

SMGDH.

Yabut...blacks are tolerated and they should be super happy about that because...

 

[ClosedCaption]

It really is a shame how so many have been brought up to be consumed by their skin color.

People deserve better than that.

It really is unreal how so many attack an entire race by the actions of the few, especially when their actions reflect the best of our nation - a demand for equal protection. Racist need to hate, and make up reasons to do so. I wonder how many racists really believe the actions of Kap. and his brothers believe the divisive spin Trump has put upon their demand for equal protection under the law?

One needs to be pretty damn stupid to believe trump's spin, or in fact anything he says. With trump, don't trust and always verify!

What?

Oh, you mean when they refused to stand for the Anthem?

First of all, our reaction has nothing to do with his/their skin color.

It has to do with them being anti-American pieces of shit.

Yeah, just so happens that you never supported any black cause ever. Because it's not about skin color right right

 

[MikeK]

Informed? Misinformed? Or simply looking for an excuse? What makes an individual think that his relatively uninformed opinion deserves to trump that of those who we elect and have the job of making such determinations? Should the tail wag the dog?

Being a United States citizen carries many benefits. It also carries some responsibilities one of which is being willing to serve our Nation if called to do so. Those who refuse the responsibilities do not deserve the benefits. Draft dodgers should forfeit their citizenship.

By enlisting in the Marine Corps for four years leaves no doubt in any reasoning mind that I was more than willing to serve our Nation -- as did my father and his two brothers in WW-II, one of whom never came home.

My enlistment in 1956 was motivated by my sense of responsibility and, at that time, confidence that I would never be placed in harm's way for any reason other than defense of our Country. So with that in mind I'd like you to tell us exactly how did the deaths of 58,000 American military personnel serve the interests of this Nation. I will tell you that any simple-minded yokel who is incapable of interpreting the readily available facts and circumstances surrounding Vietnam fiasco, outstandingly including the outrageous Tonkin Gulf deception, and who insists that serving in Vietnam had anything to do with patriotism, is little more than a stupid sonofabitch who didn't deserve to survive that unnecessary carnage.

So, again, tell us how our actions in Vietnam was in any way necessary and beneficial to this Nation.