The 'Dangerous' Faith of President Bush

[Bonnie]

According to the Catholic Church cathechism on the death penalty goes as follows:

Preserving to common good of society requires rendering the aggressor unable to inflict harm. For this reason the traditional teaching of the Church has acknowledged as well-founded the right and duty of legitamate public authority to punish malefactors by means of penalties commensurate with the gravity of the crime, not excluding, in cases of extreme gravity, the death panalty. For analogous reasons those holding authority have the right to repel by armed force aggressors agianst the community in their charge.

That leads me to believe that Bush as Governor in upholding death sentences did nothing against his religious beliefs.

 

[Zhukov]

Is that something born agains follow too? I don't know how keen the other denominations are on catholic dogma.

 

[Bonnie]

Is that something born agains follow too? I don't know how keen the other denominations are on catholic dogma.

I can't speak for Born Again Christians only from Catholic doctrine, but in many ways both are alike.

 

[wade]

You know flying jets isn't exactly safe.

The only individual testimonials concerning Bush's piloting ability I've seen indicate he was a terrible pilot. It is even questionable if he was ever really qualified to fly the F-102.

Here's a side by side comparison of the Kerry and Bush service records:

http://www.awolbush.com/kerry-vs-bush.asp

Makes Bush look downright bad don't it?

Here's an AirForce Times article on Bush's sevice (or lack thereof):

http://www.airforcetimes.com/print.php?f=1-AIRPAPER-357916.php

Pretty sad ain't it? You can fault Kerry all you want for his service, but at least he served.

I find this article most revealing, one seriously has to wonder if Bush was ever really a pilot at all, or was it just a whitewash job?

Chasing George W. Bush and the F-102
A piece that got this started.

What he's like in real life.
by Paul Burka

"Well, am I running?" George W. Bush demanded to know.

I happened to be sitting in my Suburban near the south door of the state capitol, discharging a passenger, just as the governor's silver-gray Lincoln Continental was doing the same. It was early February, well before he would announce the formation of a presidential exploratory committee, and a smidgen of suspense still lingered. I had waved at Bush as he went past, and he had swerved over to deliver the opening gambit in one of his favorite games: conversational one-upmanship. Having played it before, I knew I didn't have a chance.

"Sure," I said. "You'd be the wuss of all time if you didn't."

"But what about the rumors?" he shot back. Then, to my utter stupefaction, he proceeded to tick off everything the national press was investigating about his past: five or six of the most salacious things that could be said about anyone—including, in his own words, "I bought cocaine at my dad's inauguration"—plus intimate gossip about his family.

As he well knew, I had already heard all of it through the media grapevine. "You missed one," I said. "You crashed a jet while you were in the National Guard because you were drunk."

He spread his hands. "That's easy," he said. "Where's the plane?" Game over. He spun around and headed off.

......

(Concerning Bush's last flight in a Cessna)

Donnie Evans remembered a similar story involving an airplane. He told David Maraniss that less than a year after George W. first got back to Midland he came over to Donnie's house and told him he wanted to take a single-engine Cessna for a little joyride. They drove over to the airfield and got in the plane. Then George W. realized he didn't have a clue how to fly a Cessna.

"The guy didn't even know how to start the thing," Evans reportedly said. "That was a bad omen. Finally we get it started and roll down the runway, and he tries to take it straight up like a jet! We go into a stall, buzzcrs are going off. I say, 'Give it some gas!' We finally get it airborne, and he decides he better turn around and go back. I can tell he's nervous, but he says, 'Okay, Evvie, got it under control.' We come down and he lands half on the runway and half on the grass. And then he pats my leg and says don't worry, and he takes it up again. This time he's so scared he says, 'Hey, let's fly around Midland.' He had to get his confidence up. Somehow we got back safely. He's never flown again.

W:REVENGE OF THE BUSH DYNASTY Page 152

If he flew the T-41A at Moody, should have been his Primary Trainer in '68, he should have been able to fly the Cessna 172 in '76. Even if it was 12 years later, he should have been rechecked on it before the rental. Was he just screwing around? Hard to say. Does it sound like a real pilot? No.
http://www.seanet.com/~johnco/bush102.htm

Read the whole article - it seems nearly impossible that Bush was legitimately qualified in the F-102 for a variety of reasons, one of which is he wasn't okay'd to fly for a good part of the required training period (because he skipped the physical).

All the solid evidence indicates that the only jets Bush ever flew was the T-38, a two seat trainer. He just doesn't have enough hours at the end of the training period to explain his legitimate certification in the F-102, and NO ONE CAN RECALL HIM ACTUALLY FLYING THE F-102.

The T-38, with an instructor flying with the trainee, is increadibly safe to fly. Your contention that Bush took significant risk while in the ANG is highly suspect.

Bush's ANG service record is a sham of falsified and purged documents orchestrated by his Dad when he was CIA director, VP, and finally as President. The fact is he was too drunk and drugged up during this period of his life to have legitimately earned his wings.

 

[Zhukov]

How'd Kerry's service get into this? And he could have killed 8,000 zipper heads single handedly with a stick for all I care. He's excrement to me. And his service isn't even slightly germaine to the thread.

And that article? Laughable. Do you even know what you're reading?

five or six of the most salacious things that could be said about anyone—including, in his own words, "I bought cocaine at my dad's inauguration"—plus intimate gossip about his family.

He's not admiting it. He's talking about all the ridiculous rumours going around. Do you really not understand that?

He bought cocaine at his dad's inaguration? What, from Chief Justice Rehnquist? Go look up the inaguration on CSPAN archives, maybe you can see the transaction.

Come on wade.

Bush stalled the engine for a second, and the passengers, scared to death, grew quiet

Stalled the engine? Hahaha, how'd he do that? By letting out the clutch too early?

Did he stall the plane, or did he have an engine out? Two completely different things.

I wouldn't doubt whoever wrote that little story made it up completely.

That whole article is ridiculous.

All the solid evidence

Haha, too funny wade.

 

[wade]

How'd Kerry's service get into this? And he could have killed 8,000 zipper heads single handedly with a stick for all I care. He's excrement to me. And his service isn't even slightly germaine to the thread.

And that article? Laughable. Do you even know what you're reading?

He's not admiting it. He's talking about all the ridiculous rumours going around. Do you really not understand that?

Perhaps, but it does not change the comment about the crashed jet, which was the real point of those paragraphs.

He bought cocaine at his dad's inaguration? What, from Chief Justice Rehnquist? Go look up the inaguration on CSPAN archives, maybe you can see the transaction.

Bush has not denied the allegations, nor has he or Laura Bush sued over such allegations. Why not if it's lies? Why would Laura Bush not sue over being accused of having been the "go to girl" for purchasing weed in college? The obvious answer is that she and others would have to testify.

Bush stalled the engine for a second, and the passengers, scared to death, grew quiet

Stalled the engine? Hahaha, how'd he do that? By letting out the clutch too early?

Did he stall the plane, or did he have an engine out? Two completely different things.

I wouldn't doubt whoever wrote that little story made it up completely.

That whole article is ridiculous.

All that shows is that the person relaying the story was not a pilot, and probably doesn't understand what a stall in an airplane is. It does not invalidate the general comment, and it fits with the later comments in the article about Bush's (lack of) piloting skills.

 

[theim]

Perhaps, but it does not change the comment about the crashed jet, which was the real point of those paragraphs.



Bush has not denied the allegations, nor has he or Laura Bush sued over such allegations. Why not if it's lies? Why would Laura Bush not sue over being accused of having been the "go to girl" for purchasing weed in college? The obvious answer is that she and others would have to testify.



All that shows is that the person relaying the story was not a pilot, and probably doesn't understand what a stall in an airplane is. It does not invalidate the general comment, and it fits with the later comments in the article about Bush's (lack of) piloting skills.

You grow more insane by the moment. 3 unnamed sources in the book Fortunate Son and Kitty Kelly's slam book (most of which has been debunked already) is the only evidence of this. Why not deny it? Because then you would just say "of course he denies it, HES GUILTY!" Why not sue? 1st ammendment. That means any imbecile can make up whatever vicious lie they wish and the govt. can't imprison them.

But if you wanna keep on thinking the President does crack at Camp David and sweet classy Laura Bush is actually a coke-dealing crack whore, I suppose that's your perogative.

 

[ajwps]

Reuters October 29, 2004

Un-named sources have revealed John Kerry had unprotected homosexual intercourse with two of his men while on his swiftboat during the Vietnam police action. Several homemade videos of Kerry's wartime sexual activity are being shown on CBC, NBC, ABC, CNN, MSNBC and several other new media outlets during primetime news this evening.

Reliable medical sources state that Mr. Kerry is an advanced stage of AIDs which has been causing him physical symptoms due to the stress of his daily city jumping campaign while calling the president of the United States a liar and incompent. It is believed that Mr. Kerry will not survive any longer than two years.

Reported by: Dan Rather
CBS News

 

[Bonnie]

Reuters October 29, 2004

Un-named sources have revealed John Kerry had unprotected homosexual intercourse with two of his men while on his swiftboat during the Vietnam police action. Several homemade videos of Kerry's wartime sexual activity are being shown on CBC, NBC, ABC, CNN, MSNBC and several other new media outlets during primetime news this evening.

Reliable medical sources state that Mr. Kerry is an advanced stage of AIDs which has been causing him physical symptoms due to the stress of his daily city jumping campaign while calling the president of the United States a liar and incompent. It is believed that Mr. Kerry will not survive any longer than two years.

Reported by: Dan Rather
CBS News

Yes I saw that report on 60 minutes and the Times ran a piece on this yesterday, so it must be true!!!

 

[Zhukov]

Perhaps, but it does not change the comment about the crashed jet, which was the real point of those paragraphs.

Yes it does. That was just another example of the riduclous rumours circulating at the time. It was pointed out as one of the more ridiculous examples. The President easily shot down that particular piece of idiocy because it's pretty hard to hide an exploded air force jet. People tend to notice when things like that go missing.

Bush has not denied the allegations, nor has he or Laura Bush sued over such allegations. Why not if it's lies?

Because they don't wish to even humour the silly assertions.

All that shows is that the person relaying the story was not a pilot, and probably doesn't understand what a stall in an airplane is.

...and wasn't there and is probably hearing the whole thing at least third hand.

It does not invalidate the general comment, and it fits with the later comments in the article about Bush's (lack of) piloting skills.

There are some subtle differences (sarcasm) associated with single propeller commerical airplanes, and fighter jets, including their handling and the layout of the controls.

 

[wade]

You grow more insane by the moment. 3 unnamed sources in the book Fortunate Son and Kitty Kelly's slam book (most of which has been debunked already) is the only evidence of this. Why not deny it? Because then you would just say "of course he denies it, HES GUILTY!" Why not sue? 1st ammendment. That means any imbecile can make up whatever vicious lie they wish and the govt. can't imprison them.

But if you wanna keep on thinking the President does crack at Camp David and sweet classy Laura Bush is actually a coke-dealing crack whore, I suppose that's your perogative.

Liable and slander are still both actionable offenses in this country. The 1st amendment does not offer protection against such, and civil suits are certainly possible. If such a civil action were brought, the accusers would have to back up their claims. No actions have been brought, making it appear that the claims are indeed supportable at the end of a subpoena.

I'm not saying Laura Bush is a "crack-dealing whore", just that there is an allegation on the table that she sold small bags of pot to friends while in college, and that she has chosen not to respond to the allegation. If she is innocent of the charge, she should say so. But if she is guilty, her best course is to say nothing, as any statement she makes could then potentially be proven a lie. Both the President and his wife have simply chosen to pretend their drug pasts don't exist, and the media seems to have acccepted that.

Actually my only problems with Bush's drug history have to do with his later hard line concerning drug offenders. He himself took advantage of a non-exsistant diversion program in the early 70's, but denies such options to first time offenders when he's govener of Texas? That and the hypocracy of the Republican party who would have trummeled any Democrat with such a history into the ground but look the other way for their own.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Liable and slander are still both actionable offenses in this country. The 1st amendment does not offer protection against such, and civil suits are certainly possible. If such a civil action were brought, the accusers would have to back up their claims. No actions have been brought, making it appear that the claims are indeed supportable at the end of a subpoena.

I'm not saying Laura Bush is a "crack-dealing whore", just that there is an allegation on the table that she sold small bags of pot to friends while in college, and that she has chosen not to respond to the allegation. If she is innocent of the charge, she should say so. But if she is guilty, her best course is to say nothing, as any statement she makes could then potentially be proven a lie. Both the President and his wife have simply chosen to pretend their drug pasts don't exist, and the media seems to have acccepted that.

Actually my only problems with Bush's drug history have to do with his later hard line concerning drug offenders. He himself took advantage of a non-exsistant diversion program in the early 70's, but denies such options to first time offenders when he's govener of Texas? That and the hypocracy of the Republican party who would have trummeled any Democrat with such a history into the ground but look the other way for their own.

These bogus claims don't warrant a response of any kind. They don't deserve that level of dignification.

 

[wade]

Yes it does. That was just another example of the riduclous rumurs circulating at the time. It was pointed out as one of the more ridiculous examples. The President easily shot down that particular piece of idiocy because it's pretty hard to hide an exploded air force jet. People tend to notice when things like that go missing.

But it's not so hard to hide a crashed jet if the crash involves no fatalities. It simply is reported as some other incident having lead to the damaging of the plane.

Because they don't wish to even humour the silly assertions.

More likely because they are true and the Bush's don't wish to have people called and put under oath to testify about it. We will never know because the so called "liberal media" does not pursue such matters with the Bush's - I think a new term called "republican privilege" must be in effect?

...and wasn't there and is probably hearing the whole thing at least third hand.

Perhaps.

There are some subtle differences (sarcasm) associated with single propeller commerical airplanes, and fighter jets, including their handling and the layout of the controls.

Sure, but given that before moving to jets Bush would have to have qualified in the T-41A Cessna trainer,

he should have been extremely familiar with this kind of plane, right?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Wade, do you deny that the mainstream media is overwhelmingly liberal? What a foolish position. Could you ever imagine CBS going to air with forged documents against Kerry?

 

[ajwps]

Wade, do you deny that the mainstream media is overwhelmingly liberal? What a foolish position. Could you ever imagine CBS going to air with forged documents against Kerry?

And today its not only the mainstream media that is pushing Kerry to voters but Bin Laden has now aligned himself with John Kerry along with the mainstream media.

Americans can now vote with the European Nations, the Muslim dictatorship nations, Bin Laden and the New York Times for John F. Kerry and John Edwards.

Now let's see if the American people align themselves with the above group of Bush bashers.

 

[wade]

If Bin-Ladin has aligned himself with Kerry, I've missed that in the news.

But if this is true, it is as likely a Republican (or 3rd party conservative) ploy.

 

[ajwps]

If Bin-Ladin has aligned himself with Kerry, I've missed that in the news.

"Bin Laden Condemns Bush, Says New Attacks Possible"

Two days before the US presidential election Bin Laden releases video condeming George Bush and Dick Cheney and no condemnation for John Kerry.

http://reuters.myway.com/article/20...4645_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-SECURITY-BINLADEN-DC.html

But if this is true, it is as likely a Republican (or 3rd party conservative) ploy.

Yes Bin Laden's strings have always been pulled by those right wing conservaite Republicans or Ralph Nader (the Lebanese) third party. It was the Republicans who told Bin Laden to bomb the World Trade Towers and the Pentagon. It is always the evil right wing conservatives who try to destroy the tax and spend socialist party.