The Confederacy and States' Rights

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Every point you made has been crushed, Kevin. That is no "bold declaration". It is the truth.

Others have been willing to discuss my points, and have made good points of their own. You are not numbered among them. You haven't crushed any argument in this thread. You've simply said things are false, and then declared that you are right and I am wrong. That's not an intelligent discussion.

Kevin, I and several others have crushed your arguments. Now you are simply being stubborn. This does not reflect well on you.

Several others have been willing to discuss my arguments, you have not. You merely piggy back their arguments and have offered nothing of substance to this discussion whatsoever.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Read the Constitution, Kevin. Whether you agree personally is irrelevant.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Inthat in no way excuses the South trying to illegally leave the Union..

What excuses the colonies illegally leaving the Empire?

Do you know what they did to tories like you?

 

[paperview]

All your southern brethren and those you sympathize with who fought that war are dead now...

I'm sure even some of them, from on high, are whispering,through the clouds: "Let it go."

 

[JakeStarkey]

My folks, some of them in Tennessee, were "tories" according to the secesh. When the Home Guard came for my ancestors, they were done unto as they planned to do unto mine. True justice that!

The South was not monolithically for secession, that numerous swaths of it were held by unionists. By 1864, northwest and west Texas as well as the Big Thicket were the domain of unionists and anti-secesh. Confederate and state troops were dealt with in the way common to all traitors. That led to a generation of feuding after the war. The Texas Germans of the Hill Country simply lynched their opprressors after the war. Good reads by Terry Jordan and David Smith are available for those who are interested.

 

[paperview]

My folks, some of them in Tennessee, were "tories" according to the secesh. When the Home Guard came for my ancestors, they were done unto as they planned to do unto mine. True justice that!

The South was not monolithically for secession, that numerous swaths of it were held by unionists. By 1864, northwest and west Texas as well as the Big Thicket were the domain of unionists and anti-secesh. Confederate and state troops were dealt with in the way common to all traitors. That led to a generation of feuding after the war. The Texas Germans of the Hill Country simply lynched their opprressors after the war. Good reads by Terry Jordan and David Smith are available for those who are interested.

Thanks for that info Jake.

 

[Sunni Man]

The fact that you do not believe the founders considered the states sovereign and independent betrays your complete ignorance over American history.

You are 100% correct Kevin that the founders considered the states sovereign and independent

 

[JakeStarkey]

My folks, some of them in Tennessee, were "tories" according to the secesh. When the Home Guard came for my ancestors, they were done unto as they planned to do unto mine. True justice that!

The South was not monolithically for secession, that numerous swaths of it were held by unionists. By 1864, northwest and west Texas as well as the Big Thicket were the domain of unionists and anti-secesh. Confederate and state troops were dealt with in the way common to all traitors. That led to a generation of feuding after the war. The Texas Germans of the Hill Country simply lynched their opprressors after the war. Good reads by Terry Jordan and David Smith are available for those who are interested.

Thanks for that info Jake.

Other fine reads are Randolph Campbell, Walter Buenger, and Randolph Campbell for the period in Texas.

Those interested in Texas Mormon history of that era should read Davis Bitton, ed., The Reminiscences and Civil War Letters of Levi Lamoni Wight (Salt Lake City: University of Utah Press, 1970), and the epilogue in Melvin C. Johnson, Polygamy On The Pedernales: Lyman Wight's Mormon Villages in Antebellum Texas, 1845 to 1858 (Logan, Utah: Utah State University Press, 2006). The Mormon Texas men overwhelmingly supported the South against the North.

 

[paperview]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kevin_Kennedy

The fact that you do not believe the founders considered the states sovereign and independent betrays your complete ignorance over American history.

I guess the guy who actually wrote the Constitution was completely ignorant too.

He did not believe secession was constitutional.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Don't confuse KK with the facts.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kevin_Kennedy

The fact that you do not believe the founders considered the states sovereign and independent betrays your complete ignorance over American history.

I guess the guy who actually wrote the Constitution was completely ignorant too.

He did not believe secession was constitutional.

Yet the Constitution itself involves seceding from the British Empire over the bodies of as many dead Redcoats and Tories as it took

 

[paperview]

You will be ignored by me proletarian.

I refuse to engage in a conversation with someone who uses vile slurs, as you do,
to describe African Americans.

So don;t expect any response from me.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kevin_Kennedy

The fact that you do not believe the founders considered the states sovereign and independent betrays your complete ignorance over American history.

I guess the guy who actually wrote the Constitution was completely ignorant too.

He did not believe secession was constitutional.

Yet the Constitution itself involves seceding from the British Empire over the bodies of as many dead Redcoats and Tories as it took

So what? Justification of intepretation is through the sword, as the dimwits of the Confederacy found to their sorrow and almost 325,000 dead soldiers and civilians. The northern troops lost even more in enforcing that interpretation.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kevin_Kennedy

The fact that you do not believe the founders considered the states sovereign and independent betrays your complete ignorance over American history.

I guess the guy who actually wrote the Constitution was completely ignorant too.

He did not believe secession was constitutional.

Yet the Constitution itself involves seceding from the British Empire over the bodies of as many dead Redcoats and Tories as it took

You will be ignored by me proletarian..

So you concede that you're a moronic liar and you keep contradicting yourself

I guess the guy who actually wrote the Constitution was completely ignorant too.

He did not believe secession was constitutional.

Yet the Constitution itself involves seceding from the British Empire over the bodies of as many dead Redcoats and Tories as it took

So what? Justification of intepretation is through the sword, as the dimwits of the Confederacy found to their sorrow and almost 325,000 dead soldiers and civilians. The northern troops lost even more in enforcing that interpretation.

So there are no rights and you just make it up as you go along. Might makes right and whoever kills the most people gets to decide who has rights and who doesn't. You're done trying to cover up the fact your dearth of honesty and consistency and you finally admit that whoever hasthe bigger gun can do whatever they want.

Noted. I'll remember this when I'm, marching you off to a concentration camp; so long as my gun's bigger, you'll defend my right to do so.

 

[JakeStarkey]

So you fell for it? I wanted to see if you would. The South was morally, ethically, legally, and constitutionally wrong for seceding. That has been conclusively proven for more than 140 years. They also were stupid enough to lose.

You believe in might makes right if you wish, but it is not the only decider.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

So you fell for it? I wanted to see if you would. The South was morally, ethically, legally, and constitutionally wrong for seceding. That has been conclusively proven for more than 140 years. They also were stupid enough to lose.

You believe in might makes right if you wish, but it is not the only decider.

It was you who said might makes right.

Justification of interpretation is through the sword

The Constitution cannot stand by its own standards if it says it's not justifiable to break away form a country.

The say that secession is ethically wrong is to say the US should not and does not exist.

You've proven yourself both an idiot and a liar.

Goodbye

 

[JakeStarkey]

Proletarian, act like a grown up. The South was morally and constitutionally wrong. You have added nothing to change that conclusion. Neither has KevinKennedy. The war was caused by the South's unwillingness to limit slavery to the confines of the Old South. It was unwilling to accept the constitutional electoral process of 1860. It chose to secede, it fired on the national flag, and was punished most severely as it should have been. If you choose to not believe that, then do it on faith, because neither evidence nor reason support your unrequited faith.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kevin_Kennedy

The fact that you do not believe the founders considered the states sovereign and independent betrays your complete ignorance over American history.

I guess the guy who actually wrote the Constitution was completely ignorant too.

He did not believe secession was constitutional.

No one person wrote the Constitution.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I point out the logical inconsistencies in your statements and you respond by attacking me?

It seems you are the one who needs to act like an adult

We'll just note that you'd be happy to condemn Washington and his guerrilla fighters had the Redcoats won. We'll continue to stand for principles, even if you lack the fortitude to do so.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The logical inconsistencies have been from Proletarian and KevinKennedy.

Paper View, I, and others have completely demolished the revisionists' attempts to rewrite history.

That they can't accept that they are wrong merely reveals their immoral stubborness.