The Confederacy and States' Rights

[Intense]

The anger and pent-up hostility seems to be yours, sheila, so I will chock it up to you projecting inner problems onto me. That's OK: I can take it. You and Intense are relying on scholarship twenty and more years in the past: slavery certainly was not on the way out. The anger here seems to come from the revisionists who wish to blame the CW on anything but slavery, when, in fact, slavery was the root cause for every other symptom of it.

Thanks for your concern.

My position on Slavery is that of Thoreau. I am not trying to play revisionist. There were anti-slavery movements throughout the land, even in the south. There were many that were against slavery for moral and ethical reasons. It is not fair to say what could or could not have been had things gone differently. Even how long the war lasted was a factor, even the treatment of the south after it ended. We do not live under the Federalism of Madison and Jefferson. Hamilton corrupted the Body and we have yet to recover. The Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions are proof of that.
I do not divert the blame of the Civil War from Slavery, it was a part of it, a major factor. It is wrong of you to assume to know my position. The power plays of the federal government that benefited the north and screwed over the south went back as far as how we dealt with Revolutionary War Debt. Hamilton type schemes plagued both the Washington and Adams administrations. They Effected the role of the supreme Court under Madison. Yes slavery was more than the last straw, much more, so was Washington math, one for you, two for me.

 

[JakeStarkey]

OK, Intense, I believe that you believe. That's cool.

 

[paperview]

...

Just noticed your avi.

Good photoshop.

 

[Intense]

...

Just noticed your avi.

Good photoshop.

I picked it up from an E-Mail. I don't know the source.

I can't feel my pulse!!!

 

[Intense]

OK, Intense, I believe that you believe. That's cool.

The root of my belief comes from Hamilton's own writings, not Other's interpretations. Study His positions in the Federalist Papers and in selling the Constitution to the skeptics, then compare them to His reversals after ratification, even bringing up perspectives avoided in earlier debate.

Federalist Papers
The Federalist - Contents


Judicial is the weakest of the Three Branches. Positive on Enumerated Powers.


Hamilton's Opinion as to the Constitutionality of the Bank of the United States, 1791
Hamilton: The Constitutionality of the Bank of the United States, 1791



Unlimited contingency Powers. Powers, By-Passing Enumerated Powers.





Whiskey Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hamilton's part in causing the Whiskey Rebellion.

Mr. Oligarchy Statist Fuck that He was.



The Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions sure nailed Him for what He was.

Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Againsheila]

The anger and pent-up hostility seems to be yours, sheila, so I will chock it up to you projecting inner problems onto me. That's OK: I can take it. You and Intense are relying on scholarship twenty and more years in the past: slavery certainly was not on the way out. The anger here seems to come from the revisionists who wish to blame the CW on anything but slavery, when, in fact, slavery was the root cause for every other symptom of it.

Thanks for your concern.

So you are saying the reasons for the Civil War have changed in the last 20 years?

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, not at all. The war was always caused by the inequity of slavery and the persecution of race.

From 1900 on a revision of the reason led to the defeat was inevitable (it was not), the Old South of Tara was destroyed (it was not), and that any reason other than slavery was the main cause of the war (they were not).

The last twenty years of historical research, discussion, writing, discovery of old documents (kudos to Paper View for posting the secession ordinances of the states), and a commitment to cultural honesty as gotten the story correctly told. I am so proud that here in the Old South the old canards have been put aside, the Sons of the South rhetorical nonsense have been disproved, and the real history of the war has been taught in the high schools and colleges.

Lincoln seized the issue of slavery to put the South in an immoral position, then began the institution's prolonged execution with issuing the Emancipation and support of the 13th Amendment, which became law the December after his martyrdom.

 

[Intense]

The anger and pent-up hostility seems to be yours, sheila, so I will chock it up to you projecting inner problems onto me. That's OK: I can take it. You and Intense are relying on scholarship twenty and more years in the past: slavery certainly was not on the way out. The anger here seems to come from the revisionists who wish to blame the CW on anything but slavery, when, in fact, slavery was the root cause for every other symptom of it.

Thanks for your concern.

So you are saying the reasons for the Civil War have changed in the last 20 years?

Only the spin.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The only 'spin' is that of the Sons of the South cretinal nonsense.

 

[Intense]

Although most high school students are probably taught that Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence, very few are probably also taught that he wrote the Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom and the Kentucky Resolutions, which were written in response to the original Patriot Act – the Alien and Sedition Acts. Jefferson also wrote hundreds of letters on a wide variety of subjects. Because most of what he wrote has been published, Jefferson is one of the most quoted persons in history.

Perhaps the most famous quote from Jefferson is that oft-repeated one from his first inaugural address, delivered on March 4, 1801: "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations – entangling alliances with none."

This quote is part of Jefferson’s annunciation of what he deemed "the essential principles of our government." The quote in its context reads as follows:

About to enter, fellow citizens, on the exercise of duties which comprehend everything dear and valuable to you, it is proper that you should understand what I deem the essential principles of our government, and consequently those which ought to shape its administration. I will compress them within the narrowest compass they will bear, stating the general principle, but not all its limitations. Equal and exact justice to all men, of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political; peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations – entangling alliances with none; the support of the State governments in all their rights, as the most competent administrations for our domestic concerns and the surest bulwarks against anti-republican tendencies; the preservation of the general government in its whole constitutional vigor, as the sheet anchor of our peace at home and safety abroad; a jealous care of the right of election by the people – a mild and safe corrective of abuses which are lopped by the sword of the revolution where peaceable remedies are unprovided; absolute acquiescence in the decisions of the majority – the vital principle of republics, from which there is no appeal but to force, the vital principle and immediate parent of despotism; a well-disciplined militia – our best reliance in peace and for the first moments of war, till regulars may relieve them; the supremacy of the civil over the military authority; economy in the public expense, that labor may be lightly burdened; the honest payment of our debts and sacred preservation of the public faith; encouragement of agriculture, and of commerce as its handmaid; the diffusion of information and the arraignment of all abuses at the bar of public reason; freedom of religion; freedom of the press; freedom of person under the protection of the habeas corpus; and trail by juries impartially selected – these principles form the bright constellation which has gone before us, and guided our steps through an age of revolution and reformation.

This often-cited statement by Jefferson ("Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations – entangling alliances with none") was not just empty rhetoric like that which bellows from the lips of all modern politicians – of both parties. The principles embodied in this succinct statement can be found throughout Jefferson’s writings.

Jeffersonian Principles by Laurence M. Vance

 

[Intense]

The only 'spin' is that of the Sons of the South cretinal nonsense.

There is always the threat of misinformation Jake. I'm not disputing the role of Slavery in Secession or the Civil War. There were many failings that alienated the South, from Washington, to Lincoln, who had a hard and tough responsibility, in the preservation of the Union. Treachery breeds bad will, separate from the issue of slavery.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Thank you, Intense, for the response. My contention is that all of the secondary causes were spawned by the ills generated by American Negro chattel slavery. I don't know how many students know the influence of the Jeffersonian strain in American culture, probably no more than they know the influence of Hamilton.

 

[Intense]

Funny, most of my favorite teachers taught History. Now, what is available on the Web is astounding.

Some of my favorite and most trusted Links.


Liberty Library of Constitutional Classics
Liberty Library of Constitutional Classics


A Chronology of US Historical Documents
The University of Oklahoma College of Law: A Chronology of US Historical Documents


The Avalon Project
Avalon Project - Documents in Law, History and Diplomacy


Federation Of American Scientists
Federation of American Scientists

 

[JakeStarkey]

Thanks! I don't know the last site you cited so I am excited in looking at it.

 

[Intense]

From The Confederate Constitution, Section 9. It was at the top of the list of the concerns addressed below.



Sec. 9. (I) The importation of negroes of the African race from any foreign country other than the slaveholding States or Territories of the United States of America, is hereby forbidden; and Congress is required to pass such laws as shall effectually prevent the same.

(2) Congress shall also have power to prohibit the introduction of slaves from any State not a member of, or Territory not belonging to, this Confederacy.

(3) The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.

(4) No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.

(5) No capitation or other direct tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration hereinbefore directed to be taken.

(6) No tax or duty shall be laid on articles exported from any State, except by a vote of two-thirds of both Houses.

(7) No preference shall be given by any regulation of commerce or revenue to the ports of one State over those of another.

(8) No money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in consequence of appropriations made by law; and a regular statement and account of the receipts and expenditures of all public money shall be published from time to time.

(9) Congress shall appropriate no money from the Treasury except by a vote of two-thirds of both Houses, taken by yeas and nays, unless it be asked and estimated for by some one of the heads of departments and submitted to Congress by the President; or for the purpose of paying its own expenses and contingencies; or for the payment of claims against the Confederate States, the justice of which shall have been judicially declared by a tribunal for the investigation of claims against the Government, which it is hereby made the duty of Congress to establish.

(10) All bills appropriating money shall specify in Federal currency the exact amount of each appropriation and the purposes for which it is made; and Congress shall grant no extra compensation to any public contractor, officer, agent, or servant, after such contract shall have been made or such service rendered.

(11) No title of nobility shall be granted by the Confederate States; and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.

(12) Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

(13) A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

(14) No soldier shall, in time of peace, be quartered in any house without the consent of the owner; nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

(15) The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated; and no warrants shall issue but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized.

(16) No person shall be held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor be compelled, in any criminal case, to be a witness against himself; nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

(17) In all criminal prosecutions the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor; and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

(18) In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved; and no fact so tried by a jury shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the Confederacy, than according to the rules of common law.

(19) Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

(20) Every law, or resolution having the force of law, shall relate to but one subject, and that shall be expressed in the title.

Sec. 10. (I) No State shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, or ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts; or grant any title of nobility.

(2) No State shall, without the consent of the Congress, lay any imposts or duties on imports or exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing its inspection laws; and the net produce of all duties and imposts, laid by any State on imports, or exports, shall be for the use of the Treasury of the Confederate States; and all such laws shall be subject to the revision and control of Congress.

(3) No State shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty on tonnage, except on seagoing vessels, for the improvement of its rivers and harbors navigated by the said vessels; but such duties shall not conflict with any treaties of the Confederate States with foreign nations; and any surplus revenue thus derived shall, after making such improvement, be paid into the common treasury. Nor shall any State keep troops or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with another State, or with a foreign power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay. But when any river divides or flows through two or more States they may enter into compacts with each other to improve the navigation thereof.

Avalon Project - Constitution of the Confederate States; March 11, 1861