The Civil War (Constitutional Issues)

[Syriusly]

Actually what I have read is that when the Southern states joined the union they also made it perfectly clear that they had the right to secede from the union. When Lincoln and company realized the economic damage this was gonna cause (icy ports for example and the ships having a hard time navigating the ports in winter) they wanted nothing more than the South back by any means necessary.

I think you have read wrong.

 

[Horse girl]

How? By actually listening to the South's side of the story? Somehow I don't think the history books are telling the truth

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The Constitution prohibits States from entering treaties, alliances, or confederations [Art I. Sec.10]. Although I found no pre-Civil War decisions on this subject, the plain text seems to make the Confederacy unconstitutional so that the seceding States could not be recognized as having any legal existence. Today, its practical significance lies in the limitations which it implies upon the power of the States to deal with matters having a bearing upon international relations.


Nullification Doctrine, first expressed in Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions of 1798 declaring Alien and Sedition Acts unconstitutional, is a legal theory that the Constitution is only a compact among states to delegate limited powers to a national government to deal with national affairs but not to interfere with the political, social, or economic structure or interests of the sovereign [self-governing] states. Therefore, states can ultimately determine whether a federal law exceeds authority of the national government, declare it unconstitutional, and refuse to enforce it. Jefferson drafted the resolutions, which advocate state rights and strict construction of Constitution. Calhoun used this theory to justify the Ordinance of Nullification of federal tariff laws in SC in 1832. Jackson responded with threat to deploy federal troops to enforce the law, stating that a state’s power to invalidate a federal law is inconsistent with the existence of a Union. The Constitution forms a government, not a league of sovereign states; and to say that a state may at will secede from the Union is to say the US is not a nation. [Proclamation on Nullification]


Confederate states adopted resolutions similar to Declaration of Independence to provide official justification for secession, comparing southern secession to the American Revolution. [Declarations of Secession]. These documents cite the Constitution [Art. IV] providing for return of fugitive slave. Recognition of slavery was essential to forming’’ a more perfect union’’ for southern states. South argued that northern anti-slave movement and failure to enforce fugitive slave provision justified secession. Northern states granted freedom to fugitive slaves by law [using nullification theory as justification]; refused to enforce Fugitive Slave Act [fed military very small]; encouraged Underground Railroad.

They're prohibited from entering treaties, etc... only so long as they are parties to the Constitution. The Constitution does not forbid their seceding, so once they seceded and were no longer party to the Constitution that prohibition was no longer binding.

The U.S. was a federation of states, and was created by the states in the Constitution. Whether you say that makes the U.S. a nation or not is irrelevant.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Actually what I have read is that when the Southern states joined the union they also made it perfectly clear that they had the right to secede from the union. When Lincoln and company realized the economic damage this was gonna cause (icy ports for example and the ships having a hard time navigating the ports in winter) they wanted nothing more than the South back by any means necessary.

I think you have read wrong.

Actually that's absolutely correct. Virginia in particular was concerned about the new Constitution and only joined on the assurance that they could leave.

 

[Syriusly]

How? By actually listening to the South's side of the story? Somehow I don't think the history books are telling the truth

Well here is the thing- there is no indication that you have told the 'South's side of the story.

For instance- Northern ports worked just fine- there were rare instances where New York/New Jersey would be blocked, but freight going to New York didn't got to Charleston instead.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

How? By actually listening to the South's side of the story? Somehow I don't think the history books are telling the truth

Well here is the thing- there is no indication that you have told the 'South's side of the story.

For instance- Northern ports worked just fine- there were rare instances where New York/New Jersey would be blocked, but freight going to New York didn't got to Charleston instead.

The issue, of course, was free trade. The south opposed high tariffs, whereas Lincoln and much of the north favored high tariffs. With an independent free trade Confederacy competing with a protectionist Union Lincoln knew there would be a huge loss for the Union. You'll note that one of Lincoln's first act was the blockade of the southern ports.

 

[RandallFlagg]

It must also be remembered that Lincoln ruled as a "King" during that period. he suspended laws, imprisioned newspaper editors and, (in his letter to Horace Greely) admitted that slavery had little to do with "saving the Union".

And we, as a nation, deify him to this day. I can't help but wonder if he were alive today, how the left would look at him now.....

 

[Dante Reawakened]

If you quote Lincoln you already engaged on Lincoln. It was his job as president to try to keep the Union together before it led to armed conflict and he failed...miserably. The Industrial Revolution was underway for a decade before the Civil War. Slavery could not exist if it wasn't for the Yankee demand for cotton and you can bet your ass that Lincoln did not want to deprive the North of either cotton or the slave labor connected to it. The flag that flew from the stern of slave ships wasn't the Confederate flag. It was the Stars and Stripes.

Weird

 

[there4eyeM]

Perpetual Union.