The China US conflict

[Indeependent]

Every Conservative on every forum on earth will claim that every US CEO that helped to make China a powerhouse is a financial wizard, spending every momrnt of their obviously brilliant lives sweating on how they can make a profit for their investors.
Every Conservative will then sweat over how the most horrible Totalitarian nation in history ever became powerful enough to become a threat to our nation of LIBERTY.
You want your LIBERTY, you got it.
Let the CEOs and their short-sighted investors pay for any conflicts with China.

 

[Indofred]

China incorporated Tibet in 1950 whose people never wished to be part of China. As you say, aggression is clear..

PUERTO RICO 1950 Command operation Independence rebellion crushed in Ponce.
KOREA 1951-53 (-?) Troops, naval, bombing , nuclear threats U.S./So. Korea fights China/No. Korea to stalemate; A-bomb threat in 1950, and against China in 1953. Still have bases.
IRAN 1953 Command Operation CIA overthrows democracy, installs Shah.
GUATEMALA 1954 Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat CIA directs exile invasion after new gov't nationalized U.S. company lands; bombers based in Nicaragua.
VIETNAM l960-75 Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats Fought South Vietnam revolt & North Vietnam; one million killed in longest U.S. war; atomic bomb threats in l968 and l969.
CUBA l961 Command operation CIA-directed exile invasion fails.
IRAQ 1963 Command operation CIA organizes coup that killed president, brings Ba'ath Party to power, and Saddam Hussein back from exile to be head of the secret service.
INDONESIA l965 Command operation Million killed in CIA-assisted army coup.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1965-66 Troops, bombing Army & Marines land during election campaign.
DETROIT l967 Troops Army battles African Americans, 43 killed.
(Sorry, I shouldn't have put that one in because your army was only killing Americans, not foreigners)
CAMBODIA l969-75 Bombing, troops, naval Up to 2 million killed in decade of bombing, starvation, and political chaos.
OMAN l970 Command operation U.S. directs Iranian marine invasion.
LAOS l971-73 Command operation, bombing U.S. directs South Vietnamese invasion; "carpet-bombs" countryside.
CHILE 1973 Command operation CIA-backed coup ousts elected marxist president.
NICARAGUA l981-90 Command operation, naval CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution.
LEBANON l982-84 Naval, bombing, troops Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim positions. 241 Marines killed when Shi'a rebel bombs barracks.
GRENADA l983-84 Troops, bombing Invasion four years after revolution.
IRAN l987-88 Naval, bombing US intervenes on side of Iraq in war, defending reflagged tankers and shooting down civilian jet.
PHILIPPINES 1989 Jets Air cover provided for government against coup.
PANAMA 1989 (-?) Troops, bombing Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed.
HAITI 1994 Troops, naval Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup.
SUDAN 1998 Missiles Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be "terrorist" nerve gas plant.
AFGHANISTAN 1998 Missiles Attack on former CIA training camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies.
(What, 9/11 was the reason to attack Afghanistan?)
IRAQ 1998 Bombing, Missiles Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions.
AFGHANISTAN 2001-? Troops, bombing, missiles Massive U.S. mobilization to overthrow Taliban, hunt Al Qaeda fighters, install Karzai regime, and battle Taliban insurgency. More than 30,000 U.S. troops and numerous private security contractors carry our occupation.
YEMEN 2002 Missiles Predator drone missile attack on Al Qaeda, including a US citizen.
COLOMBIA 2003-? Troops US special forces sent to rebel zone to back up Colombian military protecting oil pipeline.
IRAQ 2003-? Troops, naval, bombing, missiles Saddam regime toppled in Baghdad. More than 250,000 U.S. personnel participate in invasion. US and UK forces occupy country and battle Sunni and Shi'ite insurgencies. More than 160,000 troops and numerous private contractors carry out occupation and build large permanent bases.
HAITI 2004-05 Troops, naval Marines & Army land after right-wing rebels oust elected President Aristide, who was advised to leave by Washington.
PAKISTAN 2005-? Missiles, bombing, covert operation CIA missile and air strikes and Special Forces raids on alleged Al Qaeda and Taliban refuge villages kill multiple civilians. Drone attacks also on Pakistani Mehsud network.
SOMALIA 2006-? Missiles, naval, troops, command operation Special Forces advise Ethiopian invasion that topples Islamist government; AC-130 strikes, Cruise missile attacks and helicopter raids against Islamist rebels; naval blockade against "pirates" and insurgents.
SYRIA 2008 Troops Special Forces in helicopter raid 5 miles from Iraq kill 8 Syrian civilians
YEMEN 2009-? Missiles, command operation Cruise missile attack on Al Qaeda kills 49 civilians; Yemeni military assaults on rebels

Yep, you're right - or not.

The occupation and incorporation of Tibet would be tantamount to the US occupying and incorporating Canada. Did you know that an estimated 1 million Tibetans perished and 6000 monasteries were destroyed during the Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward?Millions more died in China proper through outright murder, famine and suicide. All this at the hands of self-righteous bastards of which I''m sure you would love to emulate.

Spare me that shit about the peace-loving Chinese and the war-mongering Americans.

I didn't claim China was peace loving, just America is far worse.

 

[Indofred]

China, a country that has invaded one other country since WWII, and spends five times less on its military than America, a country that has invaded lots of other countries and has a massive attack budget as well as military bases all over the world, none of which are there to defend America.

The aggressor is clear, except to those that don't want to see.

China incorporated Tibet in 1950 whose people never wished to be part of China. As you say, aggression is clear.

OP's bit about the moon is a bit of a stretch. China has a nascent space program which is ridiculously far from any kind of lunar exploitation. The strategic challenges China is likely to present in the future is far more local, specifically the East Pacific which is quickly coalescing around the US.

There have been a number of small military actions by China. China has fought India on the border. China had a border military action against Vietnam after the Vietnamese war ended. China has been giving nuclear technology help to Iran. China has fought internal Muslims. China has fought in small ways with Taiwan. China has in the last couple of years claimed the South China sea areas which would belong to other nations if the sea was divided most equitably, including militarily seizing some of the small islands. Then there is the current military claims and positioning of China and the US near some Japanese islands further north.

Whether or not China moves to take over the moon is mainly a matter of whether or not China wants to spend the money. China has its own economy to draw upon, plus more than two trillion American dollars she holds, and other foreign holdings.

China is able to move very quickly in the technology area. Remember that even when China was poor, she developed nuclear weapons so quickly that many people were shocked. China has already put a person into an orbit around earth, which means that for all practical purposes, the technology is almost there. In addition, sending a heavy moon rover to the moon is another indication that Chinese space technology is now almost up to the level of American technology, or might perhaps even be equal to US space technology. One might note that when developing space technology, a lot of America's early rockets exploded. China hasn't had that problem of many failures.

Note also that costs are lower in China than in the United States, so the same amount of military spending produces much more than the U.S. can manage. So even though China's military budget is lower than the US, China still has a large army, etc.

Jim

America has used its military to mass murder its own population than China has.
You've mass murdered your own people for being the wrong skin colour and others for being on strike.

 

[Unkotare]

America has used its military to mass murder its own population than China has.
You've mass murdered your own people for being the wrong skin colour and others for being on strike.

You should really study some Chinese history.

 

[protectionist]

China holds enough American dollars and American debt to bring down the American economy at any time.

I don't think you understand much about economics, kid.

For once I agree with you. China is DEPENDENT on the US for our MARKET. Without us, they have nowhere to sell their manufactured goods (or at least the majority of them)
Trade war between US and China ? We'd eat their lunch. So, you finally said something right. Nice going, kid.

 

[Politico]

No one is going to war.

 

[Peterf]

I am reading Kissinger's "On China", Penguin Press, 2011, at the moment. Excellent. I commend it to those who seek to understand China.

 

[Sunni Man]

America has used its military to mass murder its own population than China has.
You've mass murdered your own people for being the wrong skin colour and others for being on strike.

After the last few of centuries of English/UK world wide enslavement and brutal colonialism of indigenous people in India, Africa, and Asia.

I don't think you should be pointing a finger at someone else.........

 

[Peterf]

China holds enough American dollars and American debt to bring down the American economy at any time.

I don't think you understand much about economics, kid.

For once I agree with you. China is DEPENDENT on the US for our MARKET. Without us, they have nowhere to sell their manufactured goods (or at least the majority of them)
Trade war between US and China ? We'd eat their lunch. So, you finally said something right. Nice going, kid.

China has to lend the US money so that Americans can afford to buy Chinese products. China will quite soon abandon these economics of the mad house and rely instead on paying customers and, not least, on its own rapidly expanding domestic market.

"Eat their lunch" - good idea. A massively indebted country like the US certainly can't afford to buy its own lunch.

 

[Peterf]

The 19th was the British century, the 20th the American and the 21st will be the Chinese. Yours was pretty good while it lasted but its over. Judging by the posts on this board it will be quite a while before all of you realise it though.

 

[Indofred]

America has used its military to mass murder its own population than China has.
You've mass murdered your own people for being the wrong skin colour and others for being on strike.

After the last few of centuries of English/UK world wide enslavement and brutal colonialism of indigenous people in India, Africa, and Asia.

I don't think you should be pointing a finger at someone else.........

Please quote the post where I've defended English (and the other, less important, bits of the UK) colonialism.
However wrong the act of colonising a country may be, unlike the American version, we built social structures, communication systems and so on.
Every country the UK took over (and kept the English system after independence) has done far better than it would otherwise have done, India and Malaysia come to mind.
Every country America has attacked or invaded has been destroyed or seriously damaged.
It was wrong to do what the English of the time did but these countries have done rather well from it in the long term.
Perhaps you can name a country America has left in a better condition after invasion than it was before.

 

[Meathead]

America has used its military to mass murder its own population than China has.
You've mass murdered your own people for being the wrong skin colour and others for being on strike.

After the last few of centuries of English/UK world wide enslavement and brutal colonialism of indigenous people in India, Africa, and Asia.

I don't think you should be pointing a finger at someone else.........

Please quote the post where I've defended English (and the other, less important, bits of the UK) colonialism.
However wrong the act of colonising a country may be, unlike the American version, we built social structures, communication systems and so on.
Every country the UK took over (and kept the English system after independence) has done far better than it would otherwise have done, India and Malaysia come to mind.
Every country America has attacked or invaded has been destroyed or seriously damaged.
It was wrong to do what the English of the time did but these countries have done rather well from it in the long term.
Perhaps you can name a country America has left in a better condition after invasion than it was before.

Two of the most powerful countries the US ever invaded, Germany and Japan made remarkable comebacks fostered by the US. Both are more affluent and stable than ever before.

 

[Indofred]

America has used its military to mass murder its own population than China has.
You've mass murdered your own people for being the wrong skin colour and others for being on strike.

You should really study some Chinese history.

Perhaps you should try the same with American history.

IDAHO 1892 Troops Army suppresses silver miners' strike.
CHICAGO 1894 Troops Breaking of rail strike, 34 killed.
IDAHO 1899-1901 Troops Army occupies Coeur d'Alene mining region.
COLORADO 1914 Troops Breaking of miners' strike by Army.
TEXAS 1915 Troops Federal soldiers crush "Plan of San Diego" Mexican-American rebellion
WEST VIRGINIA 1920-21 Troops, bombing Army intervenes against mineworkers.
WASHINGTON DC 1932 Troops Army stops WWI vet bonus protest.
DETROIT 1943 Troops Army put down Black rebellion.
DETROIT l967 Troops Army battles African Americans, 43 killed.
UNITED STATES l968 Troops After King is shot; over 21,000 soldiers in cities.
SOUTH DAKOTA l973 Command operation Army directs Wounded Knee siege of Lakotas.

That misses a few out, including using fully armed military police to suppress an internal American political group.

It's a little hard to complain about China when America has done as bad or worse.

 

[Indofred]

I almost forgot about troops being used to shoot unarmed students in Ohio. If I recall, the U.S. army murdered 4 or 5 collage students because they held a political opinion, not a gun.

 

[Unkotare]

America has used its military to mass murder its own population than China has.
You've mass murdered your own people for being the wrong skin colour and others for being on strike.

You should really study some Chinese history.

Perhaps you should try the same with American history.

I have. YOU obviously don't know much of Chinese history if you think there is any comparison. Is everything you ever say just some version of your anti-American bullshit? There's nothing else in that rotten melon of yours?

 

[Sunni Man]

I once had lunch with a commodities trader who was born in China.

He had immigrated from China a decade before and had became an American citizen.

We discussed Asian trade policies and geopolitics in general; and specifically the topic of U.S./China trade and military concerns.

Towards the end of the conversation, he looked me and said in a voice of apprehension; "Heaven help us if the Chinese ever become a global super power and dominate America".

His words have always haunted me to this day. ......

 

[Whereisup]

China holds enough American dollars and American debt to bring down the American economy at any time.

I don't think you understand much about economics, kid.

For once I agree with you. China is DEPENDENT on the US for our MARKET. Without us, they have nowhere to sell their manufactured goods (or at least the majority of them)
Trade war between US and China ? We'd eat their lunch. So, you finally said something right. Nice going, kid.

A couple of years ago, the Chinese government said that it could now easily do without the American market, and I think the Chinese government was right.

China now has all the factories and skilled workers in place. All she needs to do now is to make arrangements for Chinese in China to begin buying the products that are being manufactured in China. China can just open up its internal markets, and then it doesn't need the American market.

The people who keep saying China is dependent on American markets were correct even 10 years ago, but they are no longer correct.

Things are changing so rapidly that it is difficult to keep up with what is happening.

On the other matter, people who understand the economics of the American economy don't understand the economics of some other economies, unless they have made a special study of it.

Consider what an economy is like which operates with a MIXTURE of private corporations and government economic activities.

Jim

 

[Moonglow]

China has wanted Formosa back for many years, but fears the US and it's military power.

 

[Unkotare]

A couple of years ago, the Chinese government said that it could now easily do without the American market, and I think the Chinese government was right.

They were bluffing and you are ignorant and gullible.

 

[Indofred]

You should really study some Chinese history.

Perhaps you should try the same with American history.

I have. YOU obviously don't know much of Chinese history if you think there is any comparison. Is everything you ever say just some version of your anti-American bullshit? There's nothing else in that rotten melon of yours?

Since the Chinese communist party was really nothing until post WWII, we can't really look at much history until '45.
China is hardly free from guilt in domestic politics.
Famine caused by lousy government policy and murdering its own civilians are just two of many crimes they're guilty off.
However, I'n neither defending China nor hating America; simply pointing out both have managed their share of evil acts so neither has the right to dictate to the other.

In this case, America is having a go at Chinese expansionism but a brief look at history since 1945 shows America has a far worse record than China, so can hardly complain until it sorts itself out.