The Buck Stops Here.

[elvis]

What were the circumstances that made Truman say that? Polliticians today don't seem to have that attitude.

 

[Immanuel]

Thank you for saying "politicians" and not Democrats or Republicans. Both sides are guilty.

"The Buck stops before it gets to my desk or after it leaves" is more like the saying that would come from today's crooks in Washington.

Immie

 

[Truthmatters]

when have you people accepted any of the responsibility for what Bush did?

 

[Immanuel]

when have you people accepted any of the responsibility for what Bush did?

Are you talking to me?

For the record, I have been down on Bush since the Patriot Act and things only went down hill from there. In fact, I eventually left the Republican Party because of Bush/Cheney.

Immie

 

[Truthmatters]

You called the people trying to fix the mess you voted for crooks.


Its utter bullshit.

 

[elvis]

What issue was going on when Truman said "The buck stops here?"

 

[Truthmatters]

Buck passing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Immanuel]

You called the people trying to fix the mess you voted for crooks.


Its utter bullshit.

They are crooks and they are not trying to fix any mess.

You are an idiot if you believe they are.

Immie

 

[Truthmatters]

Why do you say they are crooks?

All the shit Bush did and now you give them two months and call them crooks on NO EVIDENCE?

 

[Immanuel]

Why do you say they are crooks?

All the shit Bush did and now you give them two months and call them crooks on NO EVIDENCE?

Every politician in Washington is a crook, not just the Obama Administration, every single one of them... Republican, Democrat and Independent. No where have I said that only the Obama Administration was crooked... NO WHERE!

And I have not just begun saying that. I have been saying it for six years or more.

Why do I say they are crooks? Look at the tax evasion that is rampant in Washington for a start. Then you might want to consider your favorite issue, Bush's "theft" of the two elections. From there you might want to go look at the campaign finance "reform" and the reasons behind it.

I AM NOT SINGLING OUT THE DEMOCRATS AS YOU SINGLE OUT THE REPUBLICANS!!!

The Obama Administration is no different than the Bush Administration in regards to corruption nor the Clinton Administration, nor Bush I etc. etc. etc.

It is a fact of life that power corrupts and Washington politicians are not exempt.

Note: re the bush theft, both sides cheat during elections. That too is a fact of life and neither side will do a damned thing about it out of fear of getting themselves caught.

Immie

PS Don't get pissed at me imply because I will not get down on my knees as you have and service Obama.

 

[Truthmatters]

NOT all are crooks.

You have to show evidence of who are crooks.

We have been showwing evidence of Bush and teams crookedness for years. If you wnat to label people as crooks them produce the evidence!

 

[Immanuel]

NOT all are crooks.

You have to show evidence of who are crooks.

We have been showwing evidence of Bush and teams crookedness for years. If you wnat to label people as crooks them produce the evidence!

Your idea of evidence is "mediamatters.com"

Open your eyes, Desh.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

NOT all are crooks.

You have to show evidence of who are crooks.

We have been showwing evidence of Bush and teams crookedness for years. If you wnat to label people as crooks them produce the evidence!

Your idea of evidence is "mediamatters.com"

Open your eyes, Desh. And please take your mouth off of Obama's member when you speak to me.

Immie

PS Apologies to Elvis for letting this thread get derailed and for being a part of the derailment.

 

[Truthmatters]

Immie did you see me only quoting media matters over all these years?

Did I turn out to be right about what I gave you as evidence and sources?

You odnt get to get off calling our guys crooks without the same level of effort.

PROVE what you claim just like I have been doing all these long years you have known me.

I'm sorry I was rude to you and I appologise for it. You are a good guy and I have always liked you.

You were one right leaning person who alawys valued facts. Please realize no one should be slandered without proof.

How can we ever have honest politicians if we call them crooks the minute we elect them?

 

[editec]

Immanuel informs us:

Every politician in Washington is a crook, not just the Obama Administration, every single one of them... Republican, Democrat and Independent.

While I can certainly understand and empathize with your frustration, let me just suggest to you that few pols are OUTRIGHT CROOKS.

The system is SO GOD DAMNED CROOKED that they don't NEED to creak any laws.

When the Supereme courts decided that MONEY = FREE SPEACH then the stage was set whereby those with MONEY became the only FUCKING PEOPLE WHO REALLY MATTERED.

When the SUPREME COURTS decided that corporations have the RIGHT to petition the goverment as citizens do, then they set the stage whereby CORPOPRATIONS (which after all can theoretically live forever) became far more influential to our pols than the PEOPLE are.

When Americans bought into the LIE that government need to act like BUSINESSES, then we put ourselves into a position where government decided to use the health of business to establish how good a job they're doing.

That's EXACTLY why we have this disconnect between what happens on Wall Street from what happens on MAIN STREET.

Now more than half the American people have been in a DEPRESSION for about thirty years.

Did anyone bother to mention that?

And when they did weren't they accused of being envy driven socialists or communist by about half the population of this nation?

Our fucking government don't give a shit about us until we're ready to revolt, folks.

Why should they?

Their profoirmance is evaluated by standards of how 1% of the population is doing.

The other 99% of us are an after thought and the only damned time we really seem to matter is during election cycles when they say a whole lotta thing we want to hear.

Then when in office?

They do what their masters tell them to do.

Wake up and smell the shamocracy, folks.

 

[Immanuel]

Immie did you see me only quoting media matters over all these years?

Did I turn out to be right about what I gave you as evidence and sources?

You odnt get to get off calling our guys crooks without the same level of effort.

PROVE what you claim just like I have been doing all these long years you have known me.

I'm sorry I was rude to you and I appologise for it. You are a good guy and I have always liked you.

You were one right leaning person who alawys valued facts. Please realize no one should be slandered without proof.

How can we ever have honest politicians if we call them crooks the minute we elect them?

My dear, you don't even know what constitutes evidence. Media Matters is only one of the left leaning sites you have used as "evidence" for as long as I have known you. No, you have not ALWAYS turned out to be right, but you will be the last to admit that.

I accept your apology and extend mine as well, I wish I could take that extremely inappropriate post back... but it is too late. I let your attacks get to me today, but will admit that I have been pushing your button the last couple of days as well.

As for proof, I have given it... election fraud and tax evasion are only the beginning.

As for having honest politicians, I do not believe we can. Our system is corrupt. One must "play the game" in order to arrive in Washington and if he/she won't play he/she won't arrive. It is a sad fact that the good people who could run this country can't do so because they won't play that game.

Immie

 

[Truthmatters]

WMDs in Iraq
AQ ties to Sadam
White Phospherous in Fallugia
Voting machines
Floridas Felons list
Sub Prime loans would hurt us
Bush would be a disastor
DOJ scandal
Abbu garib
Innocents kept at Guantanomo
Abramhoff
Rummy lied
and on and on


I was right about many things Immie and you know it.

Now you will post on this site that I use bad sources?

My sources told the truth.

 

[Immanuel]

Immanuel informs us:

Every politician in Washington is a crook, not just the Obama Administration, every single one of them... Republican, Democrat and Independent.

While I can certainly understand and empathize with your frustration, let me just suggest to you that few pols are OUTRIGHT CROOKS.

{snip}

Wake up and smell the shamocracy, folks.

I can agree with you on this. You need not be convicted of breaking any laws to be a crook. You need not even be accused of breaking any laws to be a crook. But to be a politician in Washington, you need to play with the big boys and that requires corruption.

That is why I considered each and every national politician to be crooked. If you are going to accept a bribe, and don't think that a large contribution to your campaign fund is nothing more than a bribe, from a lobbyist for future consideration then you are in my book a crook. Everyone of them have done it. Not one has foresworn doing so again. That makes them crooked in my book.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

WMDs in Iraq
AQ ties to Sadam
White Phospherous in Fallugia
Voting machines
Floridas Felons list
Sub Prime loans would hurt us
Bush would be a disastor
DOJ scandal
Abbu garib
Innocents kept at Guantanomo
Abramhoff
Rummy lied
and on and on


I was right about many things Immie and you know it.

Now you will post on this site that I use bad sources?

My sources told the truth.

Your damned right I will and there is little in that list that I will admit to you being exactly right on as well. And remember, rarely do any sources not contain a grain of truth to them. In other words, you can claim that you were right in "Rummy lied" because we all know he did, but what were the lies? Voting machines? You claimed out right that Bush used the machines to win the election. You claimed out right that the Republicans cheated by changing the vote counts... you know something... no one has produced a shread of evidence that this is the case. I always supported you that it was possible, but never has there been a shred of legitimate evidence that this was the case.

Every thing on your list can be said to hold a grain of truth, but if truth really mattered you would use the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and I do not believe that you can claim such a distinction.

Also, I thought you were arguing the other day that Sub Prime loans were not the issue?

Immie

 

[editec]

.

Every politician in Washington is a crook, not just the Obama Administration, every single one of them... Republican, Democrat and Independent.

I can agree with you on this. You need not be convicted of breaking any laws to be a crook. You need not even be accused of breaking any laws to be a crook. But to be a politician in Washington, you need to play with the big boys and that requires corruption.

That is why I considered each and every national politician to be crooked. If you are going to accept a bribe, and don't think that a large contribution to your campaign fund is nothing more than a bribe, from a lobbyist for future consideration then you are in my book a crook. Everyone of them have done it. Not one has foresworn doing so again. That makes them crooked in my book.

While I can certainly understand and empathize with your frustration, let me just suggest to you that few pols are OUTRIGHT CROOKS.

{snip}

Wake up and smell the shamocracy, folks.

One of the things about power is that when you have it it is seductive.

It seduces you to think that you have it by the power of your own achievments (which is partically true, of course) , and since you're going to be surrounded with sychophants who achived their positions (near power) by sucking up to power, (their are basically modern courtiers) you're not likely to hear much to dissaude you that what you're doing is wrong from ANYONE who you think actually matters.

I have met plenty of Reps and a few Senators and they are not overtly corrupt.

They have signed onto the system that existed before they were born.

They have ben good soldiers and they have learned to accept the system AS IT IS.

anyone who expects those for whom this system is working so well to fully understand how badly it is treating most of us, is expecting too much from human nature.

I get up every day, and I can find something to eat.

To a large extent, I can do so because our society has gained( (though hook and crook) enormous advantages that most nations simply do NOT have,

I can assure you that I seldom give a whole lotta thought to the POWER that I have as an American citizen, and I go pretty damned far out of my way, to EXCUSE MYSELF for what the SYSTEM is doing to keep me alive.

Now imagine that the SYSTEM is treating YOU with the wonderful benefits that we give our members of Congress.

How bold do you suppose you'd have to be to openly speak against the system which is treating YOU like a freaking KING?

I can make the same excuse (and believe it, too) for MOST of the WALL STREET MAVENS, the SCIONS who we write to here every day, too.

It is pretty god damned hard not to fall for the conciet that you got YOURS by your own efforts and your intelligence, without also believing that those who have less DESERVE THEIR FATE.

It's preposterous, of course, if one gives that theory any REAL thought, but we have entire systems of BULLSHIT, telling us that we ARE masters of our own destinies, do we not?

Hell our society starts out with a LIE about how this is the land of the free (we are probably less free than most people on earth) and the land of the BRAVE....

Brave?

Are you fucking kidding me? Our scoeity is MOSTLY lead by CHICKENHAWKS for christ's sakes.

Truly brave people are in prison for not taking SHIT and then saying to the Shitmasters: Thank you, sir, May I please have another?

Truly brave and free people? IN AMERICA???!

Please don't make me laugh. We might be personally brave (many of us are) but we are SOCIAL cowards.

Truly free and truly brave people are driven from the fold of the civilized and well fed every god damned day.

Those truly FREE and truly BRAVE make lousy employees and often that makes them perceived to be dangerous citizens, too.