The Bizarre Matter of Putin's Summer Palace

[Zincwarrior]

Given the quality of people on both sides it is remarkable that decapitation strikes had not begun years ago.

The Russians have been trying to kill Zelensky for years

 

[JWBooth]

The Russians have been trying to kill Zelensky for years

If that were true he’d be spoken of in the past tense.

 

[Zincwarrior]

If that were true he’d be spoken of in the past tense.

Nope. Your murdering savage rapist heroes suck.

 

[Zavulon]

Ukraine's attack yesterday not just on Putin's residence, but on a "nuclear decision-making center":

According to Western sources, there was a strike. I'm not saying this; they're saying this. Secondly, it wasn't just a residence. It was a special Russian facility designed to command and control the Russian armed forces in the event of a nuclear war. So, in terms of significance, it's like someone attacking Air Force One, the US presidential plane. It's a special facility, an entire city with outdoor structures, underground structures. And all sorts of communication hubs.

According to Western sources, drones were flying. 90 or 91, no one knows. But they were most likely targeting the communication hubs. They're verifying this information. And frankly, they didn't reach their destination. But there was a strike. Why are Russians so outraged?

Well, because it was a strike on the command center of the nuclear triad and the Russian armed forces in general during a special period, during a large-scale war. That is, this is an attack on the holy of holies, and according to Russian nuclear doctrine, and the nuclear doctrine of any state possessing nuclear weapons, this is grounds for a nuclear response.

Russia will not strike Kiev with tactical nuclear weapons. This would be a sharp escalation, a change in the entire international framework. They won't agree to that. But the "Oreshnik" missile could land. I think it's almost 100% certain that ballistic missiles will hit the decision-making center.

If, American (or, say widely Western) decision-makers are playing by a book, and if this book is Herman Kahn's "On escalation" (in quite poor Russian translation "Sorok chetyre stupeni k yadernoy voyne", aviable on marketplaces) we are now at 19th ("legal" attacks against nuclear targets) and 20th (establishing naval blockade) steps of the escalation ladder. Demonstrative attack against civilian population is, yes, 29th step and if Russians are playing by the same book (which is not exactly true, they are more playing by "Ot zderjivaniya k ustrasheniyu" - "From Deterrence to Intimidation") it's too early for it (but who really knows?), but 21th step is "demonstrative nuclear strike for deterrence". It may be as just resume of nuclear testing and nuclear drills with live nuclear ordnance (which is more likely if Russian decision-makers don't feel themselves cornered) or a demonstrative nuclear strike at nuclear base of one minor NATO member (France or the UK), more likely - HMNB Clyde in Scotland.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Ok. As Zakharova said, there will be no peace solution.
And, by some rumours, those UAVs were not, in fact, Ukrainians. There are rumours that they were launched by Canadians from Latvia (both are NATO countries). If (very big if) it is true - Russia will no other choice but demand evacuation of Canadians from Latvia, or Russia will eliminate them.

Russia couldn't eliminate rats from the part of the Ukraine it controls. Let alone attacking a NATO country. If it attacked Latvia, Putin would be dead within a week.

 

[Zavulon]

Russia couldn't eliminate rats from the part of the Ukraine it controls.

The USA can't eliminate all rats even in the parts of the USA.

Let alone attacking a NATO country.

Of course we can. As Trump can try to attack some American countries.

If it attacked Latvia, Putin would be dead within a week.

It depends mostly on who shoots first and how accurate is his first shot.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The USA can't eliminate all rats even in the parts of the USA.


Of course we can. As Trump can try to attack some American countries.



It depends mostly on who shoots first and how accurate is his first shot.

Nonsense. You can pretend that Russia can do anything else, but Russia can't. It's that simple. If they could have, they'd have taken the Ukraine. But it's been nearly 4 years and Russia's not done much in that time. Has it?

 

[Zavulon]

Nonsense. You can pretend that Russia can do anything else, but Russia can't. It's that simple. If they could have, they'd have taken the Ukraine. But it's been nearly 4 years and Russia's not done much in that time. Has it?

There are two main approaches to solving NATO problem in Russian discourse. First group are "coercers". They believe, that by slow, but constant escalation of diplomatic, economic, and military measures they can coerce NATO into peaceful coexistence with Russia on Russia-acceptable terms (first of all, denazification and demilitarisation of Eastern Europe, including Ukraine). Their motto - "It is better to bend than to break".
The second group is "eliminators". They see all those measures as useless, and they prefer just to eliminate NATO. Their motto is "Dead men don't bite" and "Of we can't bend them - we should break them".

Right now, Putin is, more or less, played by the group of "coercers". But if this approach doesn't really work, (and many American users here believe that it won't work at all), we will change this course to a bit more direct actions. Like, you know, escalation and soon after it counter-force strike on the USA.

 

[frigidweirdo]

There are two main approaches to solving NATO problem in Russian discourse. First group are "coercers". They believe, that by slow, but constant escalation of diplomatic, economic, and military measures they can coerce NATO into peaceful coexistence with Russia on Russia-acceptable terms (first of all, denazification and demilitarisation of Eastern Europe, including Ukraine). Their motto - "It is better to bend than to break".
The second group is "eliminators". They see all those measures as useless, and they prefer just to eliminate NATO. Their motto is "Dead men don't bite" and "Of we can't bend them - we should break them".

Right now, Putin is, more or less, played by the group of "coercers". But if this approach doesn't really work, (and many American users here believe that it won't work at all), we will change this course to a bit more direct actions. Like, you know, escalation and soon after it counter-force strike on the USA.

Man, you're coming out with all the Putin bullshit, aren't you?

Putin is just trying to bully other countries. NATO is an excuse to justify his bullshit.

 

[Zavulon]

Man, you're coming out with all the Putin bullshit, aren't you?

Putin is just trying to bully other countries. NATO is an excuse to justify his bullshit.

Man, NATO, as an anti-Russian alliance, was created long before Putin was even born. Say nothing about all those anti-Russian coutries, commiting agression and genocide since Northern Crusades.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Man, NATO, as an anti-Russian alliance, was created long before Putin was even born. Say nothing about all those anti-Russian coutries, commiting agression and genocide since Northern Crusades.

So? You bring up pointless nonsense to hide the fact that you agree with what I said?

 

[Zavulon]

So? You bring up pointless nonsense to hide the fact that you agree with what I said?

No. I just said, that it was not Putin (source of all evil in the modern Western mythology) who created NATO, forced it to expand and kill Russian people in Ukraine.
There are western countries, who united (as they did many times before) in their russophoby in just another anti-Russian alliance, and started, as they always do, their typical Drung nuch Osten. And Putin is just a typical Russian leader (not best, not worst) who just have no other option but to fight back and defeat all those enemies.

 

[Zavulon]

So? You bring up pointless nonsense to hide the fact that you agree with what I said?

And, talking about "pointless nonsense", your picture of the world (as far as I can understand it) is not just stupid, incomplete and simply wrong. It is even unrealistic by the standards of modern western sci-fiction and fantasy tv-series. Sauron in "The Rings of Power" or Darth Vader in "Star Wars" are much more realistic than Putin in this BBC-universe.

 

[Correll]

Ok. As Zakharova said, there will be no peace solution.
And, by some rumours, those UAVs were not, in fact, Ukrainians. There are rumours that they were launched by Canadians from Latvia (both are NATO countries). If (very big if) it is true - Russia will no other choice but demand evacuation of Canadians from Latvia, or Russia will eliminate them.

That would be a pretty big escalation if true.

Trump wants a negotiated deal. Massive escalation would be counter to that.

The ukrainians have been doing all kinds of incredible shit with drones.

Trying to blame lativa or canada, seems like...coping.

 

[Zavulon]

That would be a pretty big escalation if true.

Not big. Just step by step escalation. Both horizontally, and vertically.

Trump wants a negotiated deal.

May be. May be not. And I prone to think that he (or his decision-makers) doesn't want the deal.

Massive escalation would be counter to that.

The ukrainians have been doing all kinds of incredible shit with drones.

It doesn't necessarily means that they did this specific shit. You know, they denie it.

Trying to blame lativa or canada, seems like...coping.

I'm not blaming anyone (neither Ukrainians, nor Canadians nor Latvians). Not yet. Just say, that there is such opinion. Anyway, the very presence of Canadian soldiers in Latvia is, ugh... destabilising. Not to say provocative.

 

[Correll]

Not big. Just step by step escalation. Both horizontally, and vertically.


May be. May be not. And I prone to think that he (or his decision-makers) doesn't want the deal.


It doesn't necessarily means that they did this specific shit. You know, they denie it.


I'm not blaming anyone (neither Ukrainians, nor Canadians nor Latvians). Not yet. Just say, that there is such opinion. Anyway, the very presence of Canadian soldiers in Latvia is, ugh... destabilising. Not to say provocative.

1. Funny you citing the UKRAINIANS, as though you give them any crediblity.

2. Bringing lativia into nato was dumb.

 

[Zavulon]

1. Funny you citing the UKRAINIANS, as though you give them any crediblity.

I don't. But I try to listen everyone. I'm not a CIA freak to search for already known politically motivated answers. By my military specialty I'm a chemical scout. We need certain answers and we can't afford a luxure of prejudice.

2. Bringing lativia into nato was dumb.

Yep. But you still have a time to make smart things - withdraw foreign forces and give equal rights to local Russians.

 

[Correll]

I don't. But I try to listen everyone. I'm not a CIA freak to search for already known politically motivated answers. By my military specialty I'm a chemical scout. We need certain answers and we can't afford a luxure of prejudice.

But you just DID.

And you didn't do it because you actually trust their word, you did it because in that instance, it served your purpose to pretend to believe them.

Yep. But you still have a time to make smart things - withdraw foreign forces and give equal rights to local Russians.

Not going to happen while the war is going on.

You want US out of nato, you need to make peace. For it to even be on the table.

 

[Zavulon]

But you just DID.

And you didn't do it because you actually trust their word, you did it because in that instance, it served your purpose to pretend to believe them.

No. I didn't say I believe them. I just say that they might say truth.

Not going to happen while the war is going on.

And the war won't ended until NATO forces rolled back (or eliminated).

You want US out of nato, you need to make peace. For it to even be on the table.

Many people believe that elimination of the USA will be a better (at least more reliable) solution.

 

[Correll]

No. I didn't say I believe them. I just say that they might say truth.

LOL. Silly word games.

And the war won't ended until NATO forces rolled back (or eliminated).

Well, if you insist on killing your young men, I won't stop you.

Many people believe that elimination of the USA will be a better (at least more reliable) solution.

You're welcome to give it your best shot.

You know, been a long time since we added any states. And I like trees.