The Big Lie is Bush Lied

[CSM]

I do not disagree entirely with your assessment of arab/muslim countries.... but I do believe that our presence in Iraq is tending to radicalize muslims who would otherwise be relatively non-commital to the US. I can tell you from my own personal experience, that many many arabs had publicly non-commital postions vis a vis the USA, but privately, were very supportive of us and admired us. I do not think that those same arabs would feel that gracious to us today.

And I disagree with your assessment of the will of our people. If Iraq HAD actually attacked us on 9/11, I doubt that America would lose their stomach for kicking Iraqi ass...I know I certainly wouldn't. It is only as America has come to realize that the case for war was hyped and that Saddam did not, in fact, have anything to do with 9/11, and that he did not actually pose any real threat to us,...it is only then that support for this war began to wane.

Perhaps you can explain to me why the population of this country has not supported ANY conflict since before WW II?? It is not just Iraq...it is every conflict we have been in. If it lasts more than 10 minutes, the citizens are against it.

 

[boedicca]

The PNAC a group founded in the early nineties. Eleven members of the PNAC became part of the Bush administration at top level too. Members such as Wolfowitz and Perle.

The PNAC call for war against Iraq had nothing to do with terrrorism it had everything to do with Middle Eastern domination and that call was long before 911.

As for war profiteers; are you that naive? Cheney was picked to find a vice president for Bush. Cheney is the first person in history to pick himself. He just so happens to work for a War Profiteering company. Just like Bush Sr who too worked for a war profiteering company. This is the military industrial complex Eisenhower warned us about.

The military industrial complex is when we have people going into government work and then into private contract work and they go back and forth like a revolving door. Just like Cheney.

Guess what Cheney got a nice severance package that made him an instant millionaire and Halliburton got a nice no bid contract that made them an instant billionaire company.

Bush and Cheney are hard core privatizeers that seek only to whore out their souls to the devil for a buck and that buck was made when they fleeced the tax payers hard earned money to fund a useless and senseless war that serves no purpose other than to fatten the wallets of war profiteers.

This is just tinfoil hat paranoia. If the war was only done to benefit PNAC - then why on earth did your Democratic Senators and Representatives approve it?

 

[maineman]

Perhaps you can explain to me why the population of this country has not supported ANY conflict since before WW II?? It is not just Iraq...it is every conflict we have been in. If it lasts more than 10 minutes, the citizens are against it.

someone could certainly make the case that none of the conflicts we have been involved in post WWII have been all that transparently obviously in our national interest.

 

[maineman]

This is just tinfoil hat paranoia. If the war was only done to benefit PNAC - then why on earth did your Democratic Senators and Representatives approve it?

republicans were nearly unanimous in their support for the use of force resolution. fact.

a majority of democrats in congress voted against the use of force. also fact.

 

[Rosotar]

Perhaps you can explain to me why the population of this country has not supported ANY conflict since before WW II?? It is not just Iraq...it is every conflict we have been in. If it lasts more than 10 minutes, the citizens are against it.

The American public was estatic about the successful overthrow of Saddam in late spring 2003. Public support for the invasion was very high and so was support for Bush.

At that time though most Americans expected those fabled WMD to turn up any day.

Not only did they never materialize but there have been so many false "milestones" in Iraq that have turned out to be meaningless, it's no wonder the public has soured on the war.

The president's "mission accomplished" speech on the ship turned out to be nothing more than a bunch of hot air.

It's obvious that the mission was not accomplished. "mission accomplished" kind of implies that the job is done and it's time to go home.

Remember how long the administration avoided using words like "quagmire" and even "civil war?" Remember when we were told that the violence in Iraq was being perpetuated by a bunch of "dead enders"....or hold out Saddam loyalists? We were told first that the violence would end if we could only capture Saddam and his sons. Then the sons were killed but the violence continued so then we were told that the violence would surely end once we captured or killed Saddam. Then he was captured but the violence didn't end once he was in custody. Then we were told that the country would settle down once democratic elections were held but.....well you know. On and on it seems to go. Now we're being asked to be "patient" again for the latest plan to work. I think Americans are just getting tired of being strung along indefinitely without clear objectives and any sense of a timeline for achieving those objectives. Now we're being told that the violence will surely end once our forces have trained enough Iraqi troops to keep the peace. Given this administration's record of being wrong on every single one of their predictions so far why would you expect anybody to think they're going to mysteriously get it right all of a sudden?

There's a bit of a credibility problem with this president and his administration. You can't really blame that on "libs," the so called "MSM," or even the Clintons.

Several people I know who were staunch supporters of this war a few years ago are telling me now they feel like Bush is just making his plan up as he goes along and stalling. Good Americans get kind of testy when they feel they're being treated this way by their elected public servants.

 

[boedicca]

a majority of democrats in congress voted against the use of force. also fact.

The majority of the Democratic Senators voted YEA on the October 11, 2002 Iraq War Resolution - a couple of whom are now running for President:

Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Breaux (D-LA)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carnahan (D-MO)
Carper (D-DE)
Cleland (D-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Daschle (D-SD)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Edwards (D-NC)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hollings (D-SC)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Miller (D-GA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Schumer (D-NY)
Torricelli (D-NJ)


http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237#top

 

[CSM]

The majority of the Democratic Senators voted YEA on the October 11, 2002 Iraq War Resolution - a couple of who are now running for President:

Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Breaux (D-LA)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carnahan (D-MO)
Carper (D-DE)
Cleland (D-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Daschle (D-SD)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Edwards (D-NC)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hollings (D-SC)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Miller (D-GA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Schumer (D-NY)
Torricelli (D-NJ)


http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237#top

Unfortunately for some, revisionist history has a hard time extending to the Congressional record.

 

[boedicca]

This is one of the big reasons that I believe the Internet will save Western Civilization. The Truth Will Endure.

 

[maineman]

This is one of the big reasons that I believe the Internet will save Western Civilization. The Truth Will Endure.

look buddy....would you go and read what I wrote?

a majority of democrats in congress voted against the use of force resolution.

that is and has always been an absolutely true statement... or perhaps you feel like betting...let's say ....ten thousand dollars on the accuracy of that statement?

Do you really need a fucking civics lesson???

 

[boedicca]

We have two houses of Congress. The Senate is separate from the House. The Reps in the House have greater latitude to make symbolic votes when they know a resolution will pass anyway. The Senate is where the rubber meets the road on where a Party stands. If the Dems were really against the War, the majority of the Dem Senators would have opposed it. But the didn't.

You really don't understand how DC works.

 

[maineman]

This is one of the big reasons that I believe the Internet will save Western Civilization. The Truth Will Endure.

because I think the absolute THICKNESS of some people might indeed spell the end of western civilization.....

 

[boedicca]

because I think the absolute THICKNESS of some people might indeed spell the end of western civilization.....

Fortunately, however, Moveon.org is still a minority.

 

[CSM]

because I think the absolute THICKNESS of some people might indeed spell the end of western civilization.....

You may be right...wonder what particular BRAND of thickness it will be? I have a sneaking suspicion I know and it most certainly is the exact opposite of the rhetoric you are going touse to reply to this! Tell ya what, I'll just play your tape in my head and you do the same with my retorts. That will save us both a bunch of typing.

 

[maineman]

We have two houses of Congress. The Senate is separate from the House. The Reps in the House have greater latitude to make symbolic votes when they know a resolution will pass anyway. The Senate is where the rubber meets the road on where a Party stands. If the Dems were really against the War, the majority of the Dem Senators would have opposed it. But the didn't.


You really don't understand how DC works.

we do have two house of congress.... and all together - senators and representatives - belong to the branch of government known as CONGRESS.

So..when I say that a majority of democrats IN CONGRESS voted against the use of force resolution, I am abso-fucking-lutely CORRECT...now do you want to apologize now or later?

who is the one who doesn't understand how DC works, pal?

 

[maineman]

You may be right...wonder what particular BRAND of thickness it will be? I have a sneaking suspicion I know and it most certainly is the exact opposite of the rhetoric you are going touse to reply to this! Tell ya what, I'll just play your tape in my head and you do the same with my retorts. That will save us both a bunch of typing.

look. I made a totally accurate statement. A majority of democrats in congress voted against the use of force resolution. You two broke your arms patting each other on the back for supposedly "catching" me in an error...well guess what? I was right. That's a fact.

 

[CSM]

look. I made a totally accurate statement. A majority of democrats in congress voted against the use of force resolution. You two broke your arms patting each other on the back for supposedly "catching" me in an error...well guess what? I was right. That's a fact.

You lost me bubba...I did not dispute our assertion about the number of Democrats who voted against the war. Are we on the same message board?

 

[maineman]

Fortunately, however, Moveon.org is still a minority.

morons who don't even know who is or is not in congress yet feel somehow still smart enough to debate on political chat sites seem to be reproducing like bunnies, however.

 

[Shogun]

I'm certainly no fan of George W. bush.....



....but.....


You know how WE hate it when the first impulse from the right is to blame Clinton in some way, shape or form at the first hint of W criticism?


I hope the left doesn't become the flip side of the same coin....


just saying.

 

[maineman]

Unfortunately for some, revisionist history has a hard time extending to the Congressional record.

and the meaning of this was...what? Not meant to dispute my claim that a majority of democrats voted against the use of force?

 

[CSM]

look. I made a totally accurate statement. A majority of democrats in congress voted against the use of force resolution. You two broke your arms patting each other on the back for supposedly "catching" me in an error...well guess what? I was right. That's a fact.

OK I see the confusion. My comment about revisionist history was in reference to those who are running for president and voted for the war. I guess I could have been more clear.