The Bible. Myth or Reality?

[Bonzi]

I disagree. I happen to be a Christian, but I don't leave my brain at the church doors. There are MANY very intelligent Christians out there. Maybe they just don't frequent the message boards.

The Bible makes sense to Christian's or "saved" people. An unsaved person and understand the content, research the translations etc. but, how can you expect an unsaved person to relate to or understand the indwelling of the Holy Spirit when they have not experienced it. To dismiss it out of hand is what is ignorant.

Most atheists were at one time christians or part of another religion. Do you consider yourself ignorant for dismissing every other god and religion?

I was an atheist or agnostic. I'm not sure if I would call myself ignorant. I have learned a lot about other religions, but, Christianity (how I have experienced it) seems to be the only one that rings true in my heart/soul. It's hard to discuss a personal belief that is an experience outside of "just the facts" - that's why there is such debate, but, if you accept the premise and/or are convicted that Jesus is the only way to heaven, since the Bible states that, you are simply making a choice to believe that. I don't think that is ignorant in my opinion.

 

[RandomVariable]

It's very dangerous to mock the Holy Spirit.

it also demonstrates you don't know anything about the spiritual

You and Jeremiah often post this weird threat but I've never seen either of you say why its dangerous.

Are you saying that if people don't toe the line, your god will strike them down?

I do not subscribe to the trinity aspect of God but I can speak to the question of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the pureness of God. It is the nectar of the most beautiful flower. You curse Jesus he will forgive, you curse God he might let you repent, you curse the Holy Spirit and you done crossed the line. There are some places you just don't go, that is one of them.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

It's a collection of myths. However, I think that myths usually include a kernel of truth.

There are provable facts and events in the Bible. They are not all myths.

Bonzi

What are the "provable facts and events in the Bible"?

 

[RandomVariable]

It's a collection of myths. However, I think that myths usually include a kernel of truth.

There are provable facts and events in the Bible. They are not all myths.

Bonzi

What are the "provable facts and events in the Bible"?

God created the universe in seven days. He wrote down in a book.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

It's very dangerous to mock the Holy Spirit.

it also demonstrates you don't know anything about the spiritual

You and Jeremiah often post this weird threat but I've never seen either of you say why its dangerous.

Are you saying that if people don't toe the line, your god will strike them down?

I do not subscribe to the trinity aspect of God but I can speak to the question of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the pureness of God. It is the nectar of the most beautiful flower. You curse Jesus he will forgive, you curse God he might let you repent, you curse the Holy Spirit and you done crossed the line. There are some places you just don't go, that is one of them.

Wow. That's just bizarre and contradictory.

But, you didn't answer my question:

Why is that dangerous? What happens to you if "cross that line"?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

It's a collection of myths. However, I think that myths usually include a kernel of truth.

There are provable facts and events in the Bible. They are not all myths.

Bonzi

What are the "provable facts and events in the Bible"?

God created the universe in seven days. He wrote down in a book.

You're saying the bible proves the bible is true.

IOW, none of it is "provable facts and events".

 

[GreatestIam]

Gnosticism is another form of theism, nothing more.

You show how little you know.

Most mainstream religions like Christianity and Islam are homophobic and misogynous while we are not.

We believe in equality while you do not.

That puts us a cut above.

Regards
DL

Always the cut below says so.

Only to homophobic and misogynous Christians and Muslims and those with low morals like yourself.

You guys know it and that is why you never argue morals and give the B.S. replies like yours as you tuck tail and run.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

To a point. The issue might be close enough to the surface for us to see it clearly.

Alan Watts revealed the gnosis to perfection in the video you posted. What an enlightened spirit he was.

A person can learn more from listening to him for 10 minutes than from reading the bible 10 times.

We do not agree on everything but I cannot think of any exception at present.

Regards
DL

 

[JakeStarkey]

GreatestIam melt down!

I say this only because you have, yet again, condemned foolishly. I have been married twice and have never known other women. I was not with my wife until marriage. My first wife died, and I was continent until I married again. And I served tours for months on end away from my spouse. Can you say you have only known your mate and only within marriage?

I have always loved the Lord my God, and I have always tried to love my fellow human beings as myself. I have always given tithe to the poor and needy. I try to seek out to do acts of kindness daily without being seen. Can you say that you have done this?

I don't care if my fellow man knows not my heart and my actions, but my Lord God does. I call him "Lord" and he calls me by my first name.

Step along, GreatestIam, step along.

 

[pillars]

Either way, you have to be open to the fact that you could be wrong. Even if 2 billion people agree with you.

Are you similarly open? Why is it always that Christians feel we need to be open to their beliefs while they are not at all open to any other worldviews.

 

[GreatestIam]

I disagree. I happen to be a Christian, but I don't leave my brain at the church doors. There are MANY very intelligent Christians out there. Maybe they just don't frequent the message boards.

The Bible makes sense to Christian's or "saved" people. An unsaved person and understand the content, research the translations etc. but, how can you expect an unsaved person to relate to or understand the indwelling of the Holy Spirit when they have not experienced it. To dismiss it out of hand is what is ignorant.

There definitely are intelligent Christians but not when it comes to thinking of the moral tenets they are following or the satanic God they adore.

I hope you are intelligent enough to understand that your God demanded a human sacrifice and the punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty and immorally called that justice.

I don't know what evil sin got you condemned to where a God had to die to forgive you.

Care to discuss how you plan to profit from that injustice?

If so, lets look at it in a slightly different but accurate way.

------------------------


Human sacrifice is evil and your God demanding one and accepting one is evil.

You trying to profit from that evil is evil. Do just a bit of thinking and you will agree.

Imagine you have two children. One of your children does something wrong – say it curses, or throws a temper tantrum, or something like that. In fact, say it does this on a regular basis, and you continually forgive your child, but it never seems to change.

Now suppose one day you’ve had enough, you need to do something different. You still wish to forgive your child, but nothing has worked. Do you go to your second child, your good child, and punish it to atone for the sins of the first?

In fact, if you ever saw a parent on the street punish one of their children for the actions of their other child, how would you react? Would you support their decision, or would you be offended? Because God punished Jesus -- his good child -- for the sins of his other children.

Interestingly, some historical royal families would beat their slaves when their own children did wrong – you should not, after all, ever beat a prince. The question is: what kind of lesson does that teach the child who actually did the harm? Does it teach them to be a better person, to stop doing harm, or does it teach them both that they won't themselves be punished, and also that punishing other people is normal? I know that's not a lesson I would want to teach my children, and I suspect it's not a lesson most Christians would want to teach theirs. So why does God?

For me, that’s at least one significant reason I find Jesus’ atonement of our sin to be morally repugnant – of course, that’s assuming Jesus ever existed; that original sin actually exists; that God actually exists; etc.

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Do you agree?

Regards
DL

Operating under the assumption that God is perfect and incapable of error. And that we are inherently flawed, agreeing to follow God, you have to admit that there are things he does we can never understand. Is that checking your brain at the door? We are so wrapped up in our idealism of our own concepts of right and wrong, we think we know better than God. Why? If we are going to run around saying we are open minded, we REALLY need to be open minded. That includes acknowledging that there might be an entity in this world that knows better than you, is smarter than you and has a different standard of moral code.

Yet your God says we have his moral code.

He kicked A & E out of Eden for gaining it.

They have become as Gods in the knowing of good and evil. My poor paraphrase.

You say we are so imperfect yet your bible says that God creates all things perfect.

You might be right though. God might be a piss poor creator. I will not argue against you on that.

Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect:

----------------

I would not mind discussing this with you.

"Operating under the assumption that God is perfect and incapable of error."

If there was no error in heaven, how could God have lost 1/3 of his angels to Satan?

If there was no error in Eden, why do both God and man look like they came out of it as losers?

If there was no error with the son's of God impregnating human females, how is it that God had to use genocide against mankind.

If there was no errors in how God creates us, how is it that he will dump the vast majority of us into his lake of fire?

How can we possibly be errors if God does not make any?

You said you do not lose your brain when entering the church. Show me yours ands I will show you mine.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

GreatestIam melt down!

I say this only because you have, yet again, condemned foolishly. I have been married twice and have never known other women. I was not with my wife until marriage. My first wife died, and I was continent until I married again. And I served tours for months on end away from my spouse. Can you say you have only known your mate and only within marriage?

I have always loved the Lord my God, and I have always tried to love my fellow human beings as myself. I have always given tithe to the poor and needy. I try to seek out to do acts of kindness daily without being seen. Can you say that you have done this?

I don't care if my fellow man knows not my heart and my actions, but my Lord God does. I call him "Lord" and he calls me by my first name.

Step along, GreatestIam, step along.

I never condemn foolishly and if you are to state such you should at least have the balls to show what you are talking about and provide your argument against.

As to me, I have a family tradition to follow.



I like being ----



Stop complaining about not being attractive to women pal.

Regards
D

 

[Bonzi]

Using your brain can also mean that there are things you just won't be able to understand, and, that you are limited, and recognizing that. Using your brain means sometimes you realize that there are things in life you hang your hat even if it doesn't make sense or you don't have proof that will satisfy (whoever).

It always comes back to - by who's definition or standard?

Yet your God says we have his moral code.
He kicked A & E out of Eden for gaining it.

He kicked A&E out of the Garden of Eden for being disobedient. They were created with free will as I stated previously, chose wrongly. If you were perfect and wanted to create something that would love you by their OPTION, you would have to give them free will. This means they can and are able to "mess up".

Sin and imperfection were imputed upon the human race by them making this wrong choice.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

It's very dangerous to mock the Holy Spirit.

it also demonstrates you don't know anything about the spiritual

You and Jeremiah often post this weird threat but I've never seen either of you say why its dangerous.

Are you saying that if people don't toe the line, your god will strike them down?

The King James Bible is the truth.

Prove it. Got a talking snake with you?

You need no other book to find the way to eternal life.

I'm quite sure the Hindus, the mormons, the muslims and all the other religious people in the world would disagree with you. So you must now provide evidence for these assertions.

Jesus Christ is the Word that became flesh and dwelt among men.

Actually any word is a word. Try it. Yoda, Snapper, hopscotch, they're all words. Of course he's flesh, he's not made of mud or playdough.

He came to earth not to condemn us but that through Him we might be saved. Salvation comes from Christ alone. The Only Book you need is the BIBLE. Read it and ask the LORD to reveal Himself to you. When you ask Him be willing to do the will of God. John 7:17 is for you today!

Wait a minute. You're just preaching. You're not even interested in debating the topic. You are using a public forum to preach your religion and claim to all that it is the truth without an ounce of evidence. Good luck with that.

I do not believe in luck. I believe in the Word of God that tells me that Gods Word will not return back unto Him void without going forth and performing the work it was sent to do.

There is no debate about whether the Bible is myth or truth. The Word of God is true. God is not a man that He should lie. You can rely on the Word of God being 100% true. With that, if you will read it, study it, and do what it says you will find eternal life.

 

[JakeStarkey]

GreatestIam melt down!

I say this only because you have, yet again, condemned foolishly. I have been married twice and have never known other women. I was not with my wife until marriage. My first wife died, and I was continent until I married again. And I served tours for months on end away from my spouse. Can you say you have only known your mate and only within marriage?

I have always loved the Lord my God, and I have always tried to love my fellow human beings as myself. I have always given tithe to the poor and needy. I try to seek out to do acts of kindness daily without being seen. Can you say that you have done this?

I don't care if my fellow man knows not my heart and my actions, but my Lord God does. I call him "Lord" and he calls me by my first name.

Step along, GreatestIam, step along.

I never condemn foolishly and if you are to state such you should at least have the balls to show what you are talking about and provide your argument against.

As to me, I have a family tradition to follow.



I like being ----



Stop complaining about not being attractive to women pal.

Regards
D

So you are not a spiritual person of moral standards. Standards are chosen and followed as an act of free will. That you disparage such shows you do not love our Lord and our fellow beings.

Nuff said. Carry on.

 

[GreatestIam]

The Bible and the Gnostic Gospels can not both be reality, factually sound. Would your question not be better phrased as a specific fact which the Bible states which the Gnostic Gospel refutes? By better phrased I mean to address the intent of your question better.

As I indicated, all scriptures are myths.

That is why they cannot both be reality. Neither is reality.

Myths are never factually sound except to their own story lines. Any relationship to reality is accidental.

If I have to refute a myth to someone then they are literalists and believe with faith without facts and they are likely immune to facts.

Regards
DL

Did I not just read you say you were a Gnostic Christian? As JakeStarkey just stated, "Gnosticism is another form of theism, "

We are not the same at all. That is why Christianity decimated us and burned our scriptures.

I gave our friend an example of how we are different just above. Have a look.

Regards
DL

There are differences, and similarities. You seem to be arguing against Christianity at the points of similarity not differences or you are just not stating you case very clearly. I asked exactly the question that will answer that in post #2 and you have yet to answer it. Intentionally or not you are being very disingenuous. As well as unnecessarily rude to people who comment on your thread.

Only when they deserve it. I usually reply in kind.

You asked on my promoting Gnostic Christianity.

My posting usually have two purposes. Sowing the immorality of the Christian, Muslim and Catholic creeds primarily because of their institutionalized homophobia and misogyny and pushing for the more moral and intelligent Gnostic Christian theology and myths come second.

Regards
DL

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Reply for @LuddlyNeddite -

Luddly, I believe if you will search the archives of USMB you will find that in the time I've been here, I've discussed the sin - Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - once. There is a reason for this. Satan will use that Scripture to cause someone to believe they have committed the unpardonable sin. This strips the person of any hope and could lead them to believe they can never be saved so what is the use?

If you had committed the unpardonable sin, Luddly, you would not be asking why it is dangerous. Because you wouldn't care. But you do care and therein I can tell you with full assurance you have not done it.

 

[GreatestIam]

Meaning, how can a creation of a flawless creator be flawed?

We were created but given "free will" - meaning, the creation was created given an option to make choices. We chose wrong, thus, we are now flawed and live in a fallen state in a fallen world.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.

That being the case, God would not be justified for punishing us for sin because we cannot help but follow the sinning natures he gave us.

That is a part of why Gnostic Christians are Universalists and do not see God as ever condemning us. It would be his admitting that he goofed.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Either way, you have to be open to the fact that you could be wrong. Even if 2 billion people agree with you.

If a non-believer is wrong about God being real, and God has not directly shown himself to that person, for God to punish him would be quite immoral.

Do you agree?

Regards
DL

 

[JakeStarkey]

Helpful reading on Gnosticism.

General trends and beliefs: http://www.coptic.net/articles/GnosticHeresies.txt

Short background and explanation with a good bibliography: Sophia wisdom - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia