The Best Part of Electric Vehicles

[sealybobo]

Governments are not allowed to illegally discriminate, based on what they personally like or don't like.
Laws have to be made on principles of "blind justice".
For example, government can restrict based on power because that represents a danger to peds.
Electric vs gas makes no difference as to danger, so they have to legally restrict electric motorized as well.
The fact they do not, is illegal.

Yesterday I thought of one easy reason to not allow motorized bikes on our trails. They make noise. These trails sometimes border homes and subdivisions. The people in those communities decided to build these bike and walking paths for non motorized vehicles. In the beginning they even tried to ban ebikes but someone fought that in court and won.

So if you want to ride your motorcycle on the trails you can do the same thing. But I’ll bet you that you lose.

Dont you think if they could everyone with a motorcycle wouldn’t be riding on these trails? It would be a blast. Hell I’d get a motorcycle if you could. But you can’t. So if you want to use these trails and go long distance, you’ll need to get a ebike.

 

[Old Rocks]

Yesterday I thought of one easy reason to not allow motorized bikes on our trails. They make noise. These trails sometimes border homes and subdivisions. The people in those communities decided to build these bike and walking paths for non motorized vehicles. In the beginning they even tried to ban ebikes but someone fought that in court and won.

So if you want to ride your motorcycle on the trails you can do the same thing. But I’ll bet you that you lose.

Dont you think if they could everyone with a motorcycle wouldn’t be riding on these trails? It would be a blast. Hell I’d get a motorcycle if you could. But you can’t. So if you want to use these trails and go long distance, you’ll need to get a ebike.

Long range and speed for a price. Also, in the 20+ modes, you had better have the right licenses.

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[Muhammed]

No problem? You're kidding, right? By the time a fire in my garage builds and spreads to where it could impact a smoke detector in my basement, my house is toast. And it would cost me thousands of dollars to change one of my bedroom windows to an emergency exit where I could get out onto a patio roof to have a chance of fleeing-- my windows are designed to PREVENT people from gaining access into my house!

How about I just keep my gas guzzler instead.

Don't bifurcate. It's not an either/or proposition in the first place.

It's more like meeting two hot women at a nightclub, you don't have to pick just one or other, you can take both of them home.

 

[sealybobo]

Wrong.
Your own link says Battery Electric Vehicles pollute much more, especially water use.

{...
However, the life cycle of the selected lithium-ion BEVs emits, on average, an estimated 15% more fine particulate matter and 273% more sulfur oxides, largely due to battery production and the electricity generation source used to charge the vehicle batteries. Further, the life cycle of the selected lithium-ion BEVs consumes, on average, an estimated 29% less total energy resources and 37% less fossil fuel resources, but 56% more water resources. These results are global effects, based on the system boundaries and input assumptions of the study.
...}

The Biden administration wants automakers to raise gas mileage and cut tailpipe pollution between now and model year 2026, and it has won a voluntary commitment Thursday from the industry that electric vehicles will comprise up to half of U.S. sales by the end of the decade.
The moves are big steps toward President Joe Biden’s pledge to cut emissions and battle climate change as he pushes a history-making shift in the U.S. from internal combustion engines to battery-powered vehicles. They also reflect a delicate balance to gain both industry and union support for the environmental effort, with the future promise of new jobs and billions in new federal investments in electric vehicles.

Biden Seeks To Boost Fuel Economy To Thwart Trump Rollback

The Biden administration wants automakers to raise gas mileage and cut tailpipe pollution between now and model year 2026.

www.huffpost.com

 

[ding]

The Biden administration wants automakers to raise gas mileage and cut tailpipe pollution between now and model year 2026, and it has won a voluntary commitment Thursday from the industry that electric vehicles will comprise up to half of U.S. sales by the end of the decade.
The moves are big steps toward President Joe Biden’s pledge to cut emissions and battle climate change as he pushes a history-making shift in the U.S. from internal combustion engines to battery-powered vehicles. They also reflect a delicate balance to gain both industry and union support for the environmental effort, with the future promise of new jobs and billions in new federal investments in electric vehicles.

Biden Seeks To Boost Fuel Economy To Thwart Trump Rollback

The Biden administration wants automakers to raise gas mileage and cut tailpipe pollution between now and model year 2026.

www.huffpost.com

I can't wait for Americans to experience the predictable surprises of switching to EV's. It's going to be freaking awesome.

 

[toobfreak]

I can't wait for Americans to experience the predictable surprises of switching to EV's. It's going to be freaking awesome.

It's going to be like finding a gift on your front porch which turns out to be a burning bag of dog poop instead.

 

[Muhammed]

You are insane and stubborn. It's a states rights issue by the way. If your state wants to let motorized vehicles on the bike paths, or if they want to keep the ebikes off the bike paths, they can try. I can tell you that they tried to keep ebikes off the bike paths and a disabled man sued and won. But only class 1 ebikes are allowed. Like mine. It only goes so fast and you have to peddle.

Here in Ohio, I built a class 2 low speed electric bicycle and I'm building another one for my wife.

Like in 25 other states, here in Ohio, to be class 2 there is a max of a 750 watt rated electric motor and the controller must cut off all power assist at 20 mph (or 1hp for ICE powered). It must have pedals, but no you don't have to pedal. Unlike a class 1, a class 2 also has a throttle.

Class 1 and 2 low powered bicycles are not legally considered to be a motor vehicle. By law they are considered to be bicycles and can be ridden on bike trails. By law they are considered no different than regular bicycles.

Once you get to class 3, legally it's much different. It's considered a moped, a motorized vehicle, and you have to get license plates, insurance, and can't ride them on bike trails etc... And any infraction can cause points on your driver's license.

I love my fat tire MTB ebike. I'm just wondering how it will do in the winter. I have 4" wide fat tires on it that are rated from 35psi all the way down to 5 psi. They should give some pretty good traction in the snow, like they do in the sand. I'm also wondering how well my battery packs will work in cold winter weather.

 

[sealybobo]

Here in Ohio, I built a class 2 low speed electric bicycle and I'm building another one for my wife.

Like in 25 other states, here in Ohio, to be class 2 there is a max of a 750 watt rated electric motor and the controller must cut off all power assist at 20 mph (or 1hp for ICE powered). It must have pedals, but no you don't have to pedal. Unlike a class 1, a class 2 also has a throttle.

Class 1 and 2 low powered bicycles are not legally considered to be a motor vehicle. By law they are considered to be bicycles and can be ridden on bike trails. By law they are considered no different than regular bicycles.

Once you get to class 3, legally it's much different. It's considered a moped, a motorized vehicle, and you have to get license plates, insurance, and can't ride them on bike trails etc... And any infraction can cause points on your driver's license.

I love my fat tire MTB ebike. I'm just wondering how it will do in the winter. I have 4" wide fat tires on it that are rated from 35psi all the way down to 5 psi. They should give some pretty good traction in the snow, like they do in the sand. I'm also wondering how well my battery packs will work in cold winter weather.

Don't you love it? I got a class 1 bike. No throttle. My next one will be a class 2. My buddy has a 2. It's the Mark Cuban bike on Sharktank he says. Electra I believe it's called? He can ride the throttle all day and still go 5 more miles per battery than me if I use level 2 help. If I only use level 1 help I can go all day but there has only been one bike path where I could ride all day on 1. It was flat and paved the entire way. I couldn't believe how many miles my battery went.

I figure each battery gets me 30 miles give or take. So I purchased a second battery. Even still I went on this one trail that was 32 miles each way and I only made it 30 miles. People say, "couldn't you just ride it the extra 4 miles without a battery? No. I don't think I missed anything those last 2 miles. That day I rode on 2 the entire day. Anyways, it's nice being able to ride 60 miles and one battery can't do that. I can't wait for the technology to advance so that one battery goes 100 miles even with hills.

This weekend we are going to Falling Waters Trail. 20 miles long. The trail runs right through a lake. So you see water on both sides of you. MLK and Grand river arts walk are connected so add 10 miles. So 60 miles round trip.

 

[Weatherman2020]

GM expanded the recall.
Sleep tight.

GM expands fire risk recall to cover all Chevy Bolts sold worldwide | Engadget

GM's Chevy Bolt recall now covers all models it's ever sold worldwide..

www.engadget.com

 

[justoffal]

Is you can charge them in your garage while your family is sleeping.

WOW

 

[sealybobo]

Wrong.
Your own link says Battery Electric Vehicles pollute much more, especially water use.

{...
However, the life cycle of the selected lithium-ion BEVs emits, on average, an estimated 15% more fine particulate matter and 273% more sulfur oxides, largely due to battery production and the electricity generation source used to charge the vehicle batteries. Further, the life cycle of the selected lithium-ion BEVs consumes, on average, an estimated 29% less total energy resources and 37% less fossil fuel resources, but 56% more water resources. These results are global effects, based on the system boundaries and input assumptions of the study.
...}

If that's true, why would Biden do this?

New Biden plan would give e-bike buyers up to $1,500 in tax credits

The credit was restored to 30 percent.

www.theverge.com

New Biden plan would give e-bike buyers up to $1,500 in tax credits​

46
The current Build Back Better proposal would offer a credit of up to 30 percent against the cost of the bike

I will buy another one if they do this

Still, it’s a hugely important proposal for a product that is still struggling to reach mass adoption. If the deal passes in its current form, e-bikes would become significantly cheaper for most Americans. In turn, that could mean a significant change in the transportation options for millions of people around the country.

The legislation would offer Americans a refundable tax credit worth 30 percent of a new e-bike’s purchase price, capped at $1,500. All three e-bike classes would be eligible for the tax credit, but bikes with motors more powerful than 750W would not. The credit would be fully refundable, which would allow lower-income individuals to claim it.

Oops. I don't qualify for this tax credit because The program is means-tested based on tax status, meaning the credit would begin phasing out $200 for every $1,000 spent on the purchase for individuals who earn $75,000, heads of household earning $112,500, and married couples who file jointly earning $150,000.

E-bikes are significantly more expensive than normal bikes, typically costing anywhere from $1,000 to $8,000. But they also have the potential to replace car trips for a lot of people, which could help make real progress in the fight against climate change. A recent study found that if 15 percent of car trips were made by e-bike, carbon emissions would drop by 12 percent.

 

[Rigby5]

If that's true, why would Biden do this?

New Biden plan would give e-bike buyers up to $1,500 in tax credits

The credit was restored to 30 percent.

www.theverge.com

New Biden plan would give e-bike buyers up to $1,500 in tax credits​

46
The current Build Back Better proposal would offer a credit of up to 30 percent against the cost of the bike

I will buy another one if they do this

Still, it’s a hugely important proposal for a product that is still struggling to reach mass adoption. If the deal passes in its current form, e-bikes would become significantly cheaper for most Americans. In turn, that could mean a significant change in the transportation options for millions of people around the country.

The legislation would offer Americans a refundable tax credit worth 30 percent of a new e-bike’s purchase price, capped at $1,500. All three e-bike classes would be eligible for the tax credit, but bikes with motors more powerful than 750W would not. The credit would be fully refundable, which would allow lower-income individuals to claim it.

Oops. I don't qualify for this tax credit because The program is means-tested based on tax status, meaning the credit would begin phasing out $200 for every $1,000 spent on the purchase for individuals who earn $75,000, heads of household earning $112,500, and married couples who file jointly earning $150,000.

E-bikes are significantly more expensive than normal bikes, typically costing anywhere from $1,000 to $8,000. But they also have the potential to replace car trips for a lot of people, which could help make real progress in the fight against climate change. A recent study found that if 15 percent of car trips were made by e-bike, carbon emissions would drop by 12 percent.

Sorry, but EVs are really a bad idea as far as pollution.
I might consider an e-bike, but only because they are quieter.
They do not pollute less, but more.
Again, electricity is VERY inefficient.
E-bikes may drop carbon emissions, but only because they weight so much less than a car.
If we had something like hydrogen or ethanol bikes, that would pollute a lot less than e-bikes.
Electric motors are 50% efficient, but then you have to also multiply by generators only being 50% efficient, transmission and transformers being only 90% efficient, battery in and out each being only about 50% efficient, etc., and you get about 10% efficiency over all, compared to 40% for internal combustion.
And electricity still comes mostly from fossil fuels.

 

[sealybobo]

Sorry, but EVs are really a bad idea as far as pollution.
I might consider an e-bike, but only because they are quieter.
They do not pollute less, but more.
Again, electricity is VERY inefficient.
E-bikes may drop carbon emissions, but only because they weight so much less than a car.
If we had something like hydrogen or ethanol bikes, that would pollute a lot less than e-bikes.
Electric motors are 50% efficient, but then you have to also multiply by generators only being 50% efficient, transmission and transformers being only 90% efficient, battery in and out each being only about 50% efficient, etc., and you get about 10% efficiency over all, compared to 40% for internal combustion.
And electricity still comes mostly from fossil fuels.

Much better than buying a motorcycle. I'll get 1000 charges on my batteries. I go about 60 miles each trip because I have 2 batteries. So I'm driving around getting exercise on a bike that isn't consuming gas. We need less vehicles consuming gas.

https://www.electricbikeparadise.com/blogs/guides/10-reasons-why-you-should-buy-an-electric-bike?gclid=Cj0KCQjww4OMBhCUARIsAILndv5bcZiLYJhpQ7Ka6d4HlXlCXVTN8zXM3ARcJEc4kSjPO1f_Qj9-Ub0aAidhEALw_wcB

Zero emission vehicles. No carbon gas omitted into the air. Saving the atmosphere another 500 pounds of carbon emissions for every ebike that is replacing a fuel powered car.

It costs around 12 cents to charge my battery.

No registration, insurance, etc.

 

[Rigby5]

Much better than buying a motorcycle. I'll get 1000 charges on my batteries. I go about 60 miles each trip because I have 2 batteries. So I'm driving around getting exercise on a bike that isn't consuming gas. We need less vehicles consuming gas.

https://www.electricbikeparadise.com/blogs/guides/10-reasons-why-you-should-buy-an-electric-bike?gclid=Cj0KCQjww4OMBhCUARIsAILndv5bcZiLYJhpQ7Ka6d4HlXlCXVTN8zXM3ARcJEc4kSjPO1f_Qj9-Ub0aAidhEALw_wcB

Zero emission vehicles. No carbon gas omitted into the air. Saving the atmosphere another 500 pounds of carbon emissions for every ebike that is replacing a fuel powered car.

It costs around 12 cents to charge my battery.

No registration, insurance, etc.

While I like e-bikes, that is due to smaller size, not electricity.
Electricity emits far more pollution than internal combustion, just not at the same location.

 

[Blues Man]

Sorry, but EVs are really a bad idea as far as pollution.
I might consider an e-bike, but only because they are quieter.
They do not pollute less, but more.
Again, electricity is VERY inefficient.
E-bikes may drop carbon emissions, but only because they weight so much less than a car.
If we had something like hydrogen or ethanol bikes, that would pollute a lot less than e-bikes.
Electric motors are 50% efficient, but then you have to also multiply by generators only being 50% efficient, transmission and transformers being only 90% efficient, battery in and out each being only about 50% efficient, etc., and you get about 10% efficiency over all, compared to 40% for internal combustion.
And electricity still comes mostly from fossil fuels.

An electric car will convert 60% of the electricity from the grid to power at the wheels.
An internal combustion engine will only covert 20% of the energy from gasoline into power at the wheels most of the energy is wasted as heat

A simple electric motor actually converts 85% or better of the power supplied into useful work. The reason electric cars come in at a lower overall efficiency is more due to charging issues and conversions of AC to DC as well as the fact that even at rest an electric car is still providing power to some systems.

 

[Rigby5]

An electric car will convert 60% of the electricity from the grid to power at the wheels.
An internal combustion engine will only covert 20% of the energy from gasoline into power at the wheels most of the energy is wasted as heat

A simple electric motor actually converts 85% or better of the power supplied into useful work. The reason electric cars come in at a lower overall efficiency is more due to charging issues and conversions of AC to DC as well as the fact that even at rest an electric car is still providing power to some systems.

I disagree.
The fossil fuel generator power plants are about 45% efficient and only slightly better than modern internal combustion engines like like a VW diesel, that is 40% efficient.
But transmission lines, transformers, batteries, etc. cut that in half nor more, leaving electric vehicles less than 20% efficient.
Also electric motors are only efficient once they get up to speed, and within a limited load range.
At slower speeds and heavier loads, they become very inefficient.

 

[Blues Man]

I disagree.
The fossil fuel generator power plants are about 45% efficient and only slightly better than modern internal combustion engines like like a VW diesel, that is 40% efficient.
But transmission lines, transformers, batteries, etc. cut that in half nor more, leaving electric vehicles less than 20% efficient.
Also electric motors are only efficient once they get up to speed, and within a limited load range.
At slower speeds and heavier loads, they become very inefficient.

I'm talking gasoline ICEs

And even at 60% for electric cars that's still far above the gasoline powered car.

Electric motors are all torque and don't take long to up the RPMs

Even a small electric motor like the ones in a drill can break your wrist

 

[sealybobo]

While I like e-bikes, that is due to smaller size, not electricity.
Electricity emits far more pollution than internal combustion, just not at the same location.

A nice link to an article supporting that claim would be great so I can investigate and see if that's true or bullshit.

 

[Rigby5]

I'm talking gasoline ICEs

And even at 60% for electric cars that's still far above the gasoline powered car.

Electric motors are all torque and don't take long to up the RPMs

Even a small electric motor like the ones in a drill can break your wrist

Gasoline ICE can run on bio fuels like ethanol or hydrogen instead, and all diesels are automatically 4 times more efficient than gasoline because they have much higher compression ratios but controlled injection to prevent pre-ignition.
That is way more efficient and cleaner than current electrical power production.
The only way electric could be made cleaner than ICE is with nuclear power generation, which apparently is not happening.
Oil and gas electrical production is not going to last more than 3 years, so electrical really means coal, which is by far the dirtiest.

And again, the killer for EVs are the batteries. It is not just the slow recharge, short life span, and high cost, but the energy waste to charge, discharge, and weight to push uphill.

Electric motors DO take a long time to up the RPM is you have them direct drive to a heavy vehicle.
Electric motors rapidly loose efficiency outside their ideal RPM range, and all EVs do use direct drive that is constantly out of ideal range.
A drill is not linked to direct drive.
Jam the drill in a vise and it will start smoking in seconds.

 

[Rigby5]

A nice link to an article supporting that claim would be great so I can investigate and see if that's true or bullshit.

I did not have one on hand, but found this one quickly.
If not good enough, I can look around more.

{...

Carbon Dioxide Emissions From Electricity​

(Updated May 2021)

• Over 40% of energy-related CO2 emissions are due to the burning of fossil fuels for electricity generation.
• All electricity generation technologies emit greenhouse gases at some point in their life-cycle.
• Nuclear fission does not produce any CO2. For both nuclear and renewable generation, emissions are produced indirectly, for example during the construction of the plant.
• Over its life-cycle, nuclear produces about the same amount of CO2-equivalent emissions per unit of electricity as wind, and one-third that of solar.

Energy-related greenhouse gas emissions account for the majority of all anthropogenic emissions – about 80% in the USA and the European Union, for example. Just 20% of final energy consumption is in the form of electricity, but the generation of electricity is responsible for over 40% of all energy-related emissions.

Worldwide emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) from burning fossil fuels total about 33 billion tonnes (Gt) per year. About 44% of this is from coal, about 34% from oil and about 21% from gas. According to the International Energy Agency (IEA), the power sector accounted for nearly two-thirds of global emissions growth in 2018, with coal use for power generation alone producing 10 Gt of CO2.

The impacts of electricity generation go beyond the emission of CO2 and other greenhouse gases. For more information see pages on:

• Nuclear Energy and Sustainable Development
• Environment and Health in Electricity Generation

...}

Carbon Dioxide Emissions From Electricity - World Nuclear Association

Greenhouse gas emissions (GHG emissions) associated with electricity generation.

www.world-nuclear.org

But it seems fairly obvious to me.
Electricity comes from burning fossil fuels, just like ICE cars burn fossil fuels.
So electricity can't be any cleaner, considering all the transmission and battery wastes.
One advantage of an ICE car is that you stop burning fuel when you park and stop, but electricity generation has to remain constant, regardless of current usage.