The batttle for Chosin

[TheGreenHornet]

U.S./ U.N forces were in pretty sad shape after the N.K. surprise attack on the South (apparently the CIA was clueless) and U.S. Troops were pushed to the bottom of the peninsula until General MacArthur developed the risky Inchon Landing strategy that cut the N.K. supply lines and isolated N.K. troops. U.S. forces retook the S.K. capital and went on to take the N.K. capital of Pongyang. The conflict was over in less than a year and N.K. ceased to be a threat, but wait. Something happened in the Truman administration and in the mind of the Old Soldier. Red China said that they would enter the conflict if U.S. Troops approached the Yalu River border between Korea and China but why would that happen. MacArthur never spent a single night in Korea, preferring to rely on faulty intelligence supplied by sycophant general Ned Almond and Truman apparently didn't have sense enough or the political courage to tell the old WW1 general to stop. The perfect storm of a winter campaign in a country known for the harshest winters in the world by ill equipped and exhausted U.S. Troops was developing so that MacArthur could fulfill his vow to "piss in the Yalu". It was crazy and ill advised but the media stood behind MacArthur and never wavered and Truman hid under a desk in the White House and the setup for the biggest ambush in history was unraveling. MacArthur's sycophant general tried to goad Marines like General O.P. Smith and Lewis "Chesty" Puller into risky advances until the shit hit the fan at the Chosen. Marine General Puller managed to fight his way out of a trap and took Marine and Army units to safety but the politics had already entered the story. The liberal media still defended Truman and MacArthur even after MacArthur made crazy claims of nuking China and was finally relieved of duty (to a tickertape parade). The damage was done and the conflict lasted three years and ended up in an embarasing truce and we ended up back where we started at the cost of 50,000 American lives.

You are coinfusing MacArthur with Patton....Mac never promised to piss in the Yalu river.....Patton did promise to piss in the Rhine River and he did piss in the Rhine River and there are photographs of him doing exactly that.

 

[rightwinger]

None of the United Nations forces, including our own, had the slightest chance of defeating the Chinese forces. Our forces were all mechanized, and could only advance using roads in North Korea. Chinese forces were not, therefor they traveled and fought in the mountains and hills with mostly infantry, and some limited small artillery. They traveled at night to avoid our aircraft. They had little regard for their own lives. They attacked in waves, with the 3rd and 4th wave not even having been issued guns and ammo. They picked that up from dead soldiers. The final wave was a blocking wave with machine guns, with orders to fire at any Chinese troops retreating without orders.

Actually we did in fact defeat the Chinese forces badly.

Exactly....the only thing stopping a clear cut victory in Korea was leftwing politicians and leftwing state dept. riddled with soviet spies. Truman who drank way too much whisky was too fearful of a confrontation with Russia and the famous quote

Lest we forget the statement by the none to clever Omar Bradley..............'"The wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, and with the wrong enemy" is General Omar Bradley's famous rebuke in his May 15, 1951 Congressional as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the idea of extending the Korean War into China, as proposed by General Douglas MacArthur, the commander of the U.N. ...that was just one example of the prevailing fallacious attitude of the weaklings in Washington who stabbed MacArthur in the back.

A prime example of why MacArthur got fired

He just didn’t understand the politics of the situation
We had just lost 400,000 soldiers five years earlier. The American people were not going to tolerate another meat grinder especially in a hell hole like Korea that nobody cared if they existed

We lost 50,000 in Korea because of MacArthurs arrogance

 

[harmonica]

I just went over this in another thread in depth on how Mac really screwed in NKorea
he totally screwed it up

 

[harmonica]

Inchon was a stroke of luck.

A bold move by a tactical genius is more accurate...........anyhow....as someone once said.....better to be lucky than good.

The Inchon landing was opposed as being too risky by the Joint Chiefs of Staff.....but MacArthur's decision(it too extreme courage)to land there demonstrated once again his tactical genius. Not to forget...................During World War 2, General Douglas MacArthur developed the strategy of island hopping. He would capture certain islands. The Americans would use those islands to get closer to their goal. He would leave Japanese troops to starve on the other islands. He would not waste American lives trying to capture those islands. The objective was to get close enough to Japan to establish bomber bases capable of dropping bombs on Japan. Brilliant strategy.


The MacArthur Revival | RealClearDefense

....a ''lot'' of what are thought to be risky landings are that--just thoughts--the big one = D Day
1. the NKs were overstretched and extended when Operation Chromite started--easy to cut them off/etc
2. the US was the world's foremost expert on amphib ops-
3. the US had naval and air superiority
it wasn't that risky at all
to be continued

 

[harmonica]

ok here it is again

North Korea
-----
a. the temps got down to 30 BELOW 0 [ not windchill ]
b. snowy, hilly, icy terrain
c. X Corps had virtually 1 MSR with a and b
!!!!!!!!!!!!!duh duh...this makes just movement extremely slow/etc--
...makes everything slower--movement, refueling, eating. supply, vehicles, etc
easy to cut off the UN troops!
in 1 book I read, a Marine intel officer said it would've been easy for an enemy to stop the UN troops because of a, b, c

the USMC general knew it was stupid to go headlong up to the Yalu--
that's why he more or less disobeyed orders not to go fast
he laid depots and kept the unit ''together''
...the USMC was the only large unit not to get it's a$$ kicked--the USMC destroyed many divisions during the Chosin and kept the Chinese from being able to take advantage of their 2nd Offensive victories
to be continued

 

[TheGreenHornet]

There is no doubt MacArthur was wrong in his analysis of what China might do....and not only MacArthur but his staff (including intelligence officers) simply had little respect for the military capabilities of china....referring to them as laundrymen....their perspective on China was based largely on China's military performance in WWII which was very poor.

But also...........one must consider all the limitations placed on MacArthur by Truman i.e. refusing to let our AirForce go beyond the Yalu River and knock out China's ability to invade N.Korea etc.etc. basically the whole fallacious and disastrous policy of 'limited war' was begun by the Truman Administration and a pc communist ridden state Dept. which was a huge, huge security leak as in they were thoroughly penetrated by Russian Intelligence agents.


General Douglas MacArthur Defends His Conduct in the War in Korea | Teaching American History

...the US did not want a war with China--that would've been really stupid---we couldn't beat tiny North Vietnam...you don't want to go dropping A bombs for nothing--especially for a civil war....you can't beat China--too big--too many people
...most wars are ''limited''

my father fought at the Chosin
temps down to 30 below [ not wind chill ]...snowy, icy. hilly terrrain
after fighting for 2 days, with little sleep, they went ''cross-country'' in those temps to save Fox Company around 2 Dec

however, so what if the North took over?...North Vietnam took over the South
the communists took over Laos and Cambodia, and Cuba--no big deal

Not a good line of reasoning....anyhow what was your father's thoughts on the Korean stalemate?

sure--go to war with China--that's a good line of reasoning??!
my father never talked about the political side of it

No one wants to go to war but as Dick Cheney recently said China is now America's greatest threat.

Cheney on Threats to U.S.: ‘I Think the Chinese Long-term Are the Most Serious, ...’

 

[rightwinger]

There is no doubt MacArthur was wrong in his analysis of what China might do....and not only MacArthur but his staff (including intelligence officers) simply had little respect for the military capabilities of china....referring to them as laundrymen....their perspective on China was based largely on China's military performance in WWII which was very poor.

But also...........one must consider all the limitations placed on MacArthur by Truman i.e. refusing to let our AirForce go beyond the Yalu River and knock out China's ability to invade N.Korea etc.etc. basically the whole fallacious and disastrous policy of 'limited war' was begun by the Truman Administration and a pc communist ridden state Dept. which was a huge, huge security leak as in they were thoroughly penetrated by Russian Intelligence agents.


General Douglas MacArthur Defends His Conduct in the War in Korea | Teaching American History

...the US did not want a war with China--that would've been really stupid---we couldn't beat tiny North Vietnam...you don't want to go dropping A bombs for nothing--especially for a civil war....you can't beat China--too big--too many people
...most wars are ''limited''

my father fought at the Chosin
temps down to 30 below [ not wind chill ]...snowy, icy. hilly terrrain
after fighting for 2 days, with little sleep, they went ''cross-country'' in those temps to save Fox Company around 2 Dec

however, so what if the North took over?...North Vietnam took over the South
the communists took over Laos and Cambodia, and Cuba--no big deal

Not a good line of reasoning....anyhow what was your father's thoughts on the Korean stalemate?

sure--go to war with China--that's a good line of reasoning??!
my father never talked about the political side of it

No one wants to go to war but as Dick Cheney recently said China is now America's greatest threat.

Economically...yes
Militarily? No reason to fight

 

[harmonica]

the Chinese kicked UN ass in the FIRST Chinese Offense circa October right after the UN crossed [ the only main unit not getting a bloody nose was the USMC ]
--so we have the UN getting it's ass kicked by --the Chinese!!!
--still---it wasn't that big of a failure as the Second Offensive---

and Mac fails to believe the Chinese are there in force!!! after the UN got it's a$$ kicked
he SPLITS his forces!! with the X Corps on the right
then most of his units are extended/over stretched--as NK was at Inchon
the Chinese withdraw into the mountains
there are 300,000 Chinese in NK at this time

and after this--Mac makes the BIG mistake!! he wants to keep going into the COLD, icy, snowy, hilly mountains !!!
he STILL thinks the Chinese are irrelevant !!!
and this creates one of the greatest disasters in American military history when a whole CORPS is thrown off the battle continent--along with the 8th getting it's ass kicked and retreating big time

after this huge setback of the First Offensive--any idiot could know that he should not have kept going as he did

 

[TheGreenHornet]

None of the United Nations forces, including our own, had the slightest chance of defeating the Chinese forces. Our forces were all mechanized, and could only advance using roads in North Korea. Chinese forces were not, therefor they traveled and fought in the mountains and hills with mostly infantry, and some limited small artillery. They traveled at night to avoid our aircraft. They had little regard for their own lives. They attacked in waves, with the 3rd and 4th wave not even having been issued guns and ammo. They picked that up from dead soldiers. The final wave was a blocking wave with machine guns, with orders to fire at any Chinese troops retreating without orders.

Actually we did in fact defeat the Chinese forces badly.

Exactly....the only thing stopping a clear cut victory in Korea was leftwing politicians and leftwing state dept. riddled with soviet spies. Truman who drank way too much whisky was too fearful of a confrontation with Russia and the famous quote

Lest we forget the statement by the none to clever Omar Bradley..............'"The wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, and with the wrong enemy" is General Omar Bradley's famous rebuke in his May 15, 1951 Congressional as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the idea of extending the Korean War into China, as proposed by General Douglas MacArthur, the commander of the U.N. ...that was just one example of the prevailing fallacious attitude of the weaklings in Washington who stabbed MacArthur in the back.

A prime example of why MacArthur got fired

He just didn’t understand the politics of the situation
We had just lost 400,000 soldiers five years earlier. The American people were not going to tolerate another meat grinder especially in a hell hole like Korea that nobody cared if they existed

We lost 50,000 in Korea because of MacArthurs arrogance

Nonsense.......what needs to be understood is why America was so weak that the communists felt emboldened to attack S. Korea?

 

[TheGreenHornet]

ok here it is again

North Korea
-----
a. the temps got down to 30 BELOW 0 [ not windchill ]
b. snowy, hilly, icy terrain
c. X Corps had virtually 1 MSR with a and b
!!!!!!!!!!!!!duh duh...this makes just movement extremely slow/etc--
...makes everything slower--movement, refueling, eating. supply, vehicles, etc
easy to cut off the UN troops!
in 1 book I read, a Marine intel officer said it would've been easy for an enemy to stop the UN troops because of a, b, c

the USMC general knew it was stupid to go headlong up to the Yalu--
that's why he more or less disobeyed orders not to go fast
he laid depots and kept the unit ''together''
...the USMC was the only large unit not to get it's a$$ kicked--the USMC destroyed many divisions during the Chosin and kept the Chinese from being able to take advantage of their 2nd Offensive victories
to be continued

Neither MacArthur, anyone on his staff including the intelligence officers nor the CIA expected the Chinese to intervene. It was a surprise and it ended what would have been a short war, a clear victory and the troops home for Christmas. There are always surprises in war aka the battle of the bulge etc.

What many have lost sight of is the fact that the Chinese Intervention would have not occurred if MacArthur had been allowed to knock out the bridges over the Yalu River and the Chinese military bases and depots close to Korea...it was the fear mongering and intelligence leaks in Washington that enabled the Chinese intervention.

 

[harmonica]

...the Chinese were going in before the US reached the Yalu
...one of the reason China went in was to protect the hydroelectric dams that were NOT near the border..

3. There was a geographical advantage. The narrow shape of the Korean peninsula and the mountainous area in North Korea would greatly limit the mobility of MacArthur's mechanized forces and ground firepower, and it would be advantageous for China in conducting defensive actions. Though MacArthur could get part of his logistic support from Japan, the greater part of his supplies would have to be transported from America- more than 10,000 miles away. By comparison, China's supply route from home, and from the Soviet Union, would be much shorter.74

http://www3.nccu.edu.tw/~lorenzo/Hao Chinas Decision.pdf

 

[TheGreenHornet]

the Chinese kicked UN ass in the FIRST Chinese Offense circa October right after the UN crossed [ the only main unit not getting a bloody nose was the USMC ]
--so we have the UN getting it's ass kicked by --the Chinese!!!
--still---it wasn't that big of a failure as the Second Offensive---

and Mac fails to believe the Chinese are there in force!!! after the UN got it's a$$ kicked
he SPLITS his forces!! with the X Corps on the right
then most of his units are extended/over stretched--as NK was at Inchon
the Chinese withdraw into the mountains
there are 300,000 Chinese in NK at this time

and after this--Mac makes the BIG mistake!! he wants to keep going into the COLD, icy, snowy, hilly mountains !!!
he STILL thinks the Chinese are irrelevant !!!
and this creates one of the greatest disasters in American military history when a whole CORPS is thrown off the battle continent--along with the 8th getting it's ass kicked and retreating big time

after this huge setback of the First Offensive--any idiot could know that he should not have kept going as he did

The marines were well trained....but most Army units after the end of WWII had fallen into a sad state of neglect. If one watches the video you will see how the battle at the chosin reservoir woke up those in Washington tasked with maintaining our military power...they realized finally that we must maintain adequate and will trained forces to deal with any threat anywhere in the world after the debacle at chosin.

 

[harmonica]

from USMC General Smith--the only unit not to get it's a$$ kicked

I do not like the prospect of stringing out a Marine division along a single mountain road for 120 air miles from Hamhung to the border

"Although the Chinese have withdrawn to the north, I have not pressed Litzenberg to make any rapid advance. Our orders still require us to advance to the Manchurian border.

and finally:

I believe a winter campaign in the mountains of North Korea is too much to ask of the American soldier or Marine, and I doubt the feasibility of supplying troops in this area during the winter or providing for the evacuation of sick or wounded."

etc etc
Korean War Educator: Chosin Reservoir - Ray Vallowe Research - Chapter 7

 

[rightwinger]

None of the United Nations forces, including our own, had the slightest chance of defeating the Chinese forces. Our forces were all mechanized, and could only advance using roads in North Korea. Chinese forces were not, therefor they traveled and fought in the mountains and hills with mostly infantry, and some limited small artillery. They traveled at night to avoid our aircraft. They had little regard for their own lives. They attacked in waves, with the 3rd and 4th wave not even having been issued guns and ammo. They picked that up from dead soldiers. The final wave was a blocking wave with machine guns, with orders to fire at any Chinese troops retreating without orders.

Actually we did in fact defeat the Chinese forces badly.

Exactly....the only thing stopping a clear cut victory in Korea was leftwing politicians and leftwing state dept. riddled with soviet spies. Truman who drank way too much whisky was too fearful of a confrontation with Russia and the famous quote

Lest we forget the statement by the none to clever Omar Bradley..............'"The wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, and with the wrong enemy" is General Omar Bradley's famous rebuke in his May 15, 1951 Congressional as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the idea of extending the Korean War into China, as proposed by General Douglas MacArthur, the commander of the U.N. ...that was just one example of the prevailing fallacious attitude of the weaklings in Washington who stabbed MacArthur in the back.

A prime example of why MacArthur got fired

He just didn’t understand the politics of the situation
We had just lost 400,000 soldiers five years earlier. The American people were not going to tolerate another meat grinder especially in a hell hole like Korea that nobody cared if they existed

We lost 50,000 in Korea because of MacArthurs arrogance

Nonsense.......what needs to be understood is why America was so weak that the communists felt emboldened to attack S. Korea?

Weak?

Who the hell wanted to get into another war less than five years after we fought WWII?

War mongers don’t care if we lose more soldiers......the American people did

Who wants to give their son for S Korea?

 

[TheGreenHornet]

None of the United Nations forces, including our own, had the slightest chance of defeating the Chinese forces. Our forces were all mechanized, and could only advance using roads in North Korea. Chinese forces were not, therefor they traveled and fought in the mountains and hills with mostly infantry, and some limited small artillery. They traveled at night to avoid our aircraft. They had little regard for their own lives. They attacked in waves, with the 3rd and 4th wave not even having been issued guns and ammo. They picked that up from dead soldiers. The final wave was a blocking wave with machine guns, with orders to fire at any Chinese troops retreating without orders.

Actually we did in fact defeat the Chinese forces badly.

Exactly....the only thing stopping a clear cut victory in Korea was leftwing politicians and leftwing state dept. riddled with soviet spies. Truman who drank way too much whisky was too fearful of a confrontation with Russia and the famous quote

Lest we forget the statement by the none to clever Omar Bradley..............'"The wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, and with the wrong enemy" is General Omar Bradley's famous rebuke in his May 15, 1951 Congressional as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the idea of extending the Korean War into China, as proposed by General Douglas MacArthur, the commander of the U.N. ...that was just one example of the prevailing fallacious attitude of the weaklings in Washington who stabbed MacArthur in the back.

A prime example of why MacArthur got fired

He just didn’t understand the politics of the situation
We had just lost 400,000 soldiers five years earlier. The American people were not going to tolerate another meat grinder especially in a hell hole like Korea that nobody cared if they existed

We lost 50,000 in Korea because of MacArthurs arrogance

Nonsense.......what needs to be understood is why America was so weak that the communists felt emboldened to attack S. Korea?

Weak?

Who the hell wanted to get into another war less than five years after we fought WWII?

War mongers don’t care if we lose more soldiers......the American people did

Who wants to give their son for S Korea?

You do not get it and way too many are on your side....not understanding that strength deters war whilst weakness invites it.

 

[harmonica]

None of the United Nations forces, including our own, had the slightest chance of defeating the Chinese forces. Our forces were all mechanized, and could only advance using roads in North Korea. Chinese forces were not, therefor they traveled and fought in the mountains and hills with mostly infantry, and some limited small artillery. They traveled at night to avoid our aircraft. They had little regard for their own lives. They attacked in waves, with the 3rd and 4th wave not even having been issued guns and ammo. They picked that up from dead soldiers. The final wave was a blocking wave with machine guns, with orders to fire at any Chinese troops retreating without orders.

Actually we did in fact defeat the Chinese forces badly.

Exactly....the only thing stopping a clear cut victory in Korea was leftwing politicians and leftwing state dept. riddled with soviet spies. Truman who drank way too much whisky was too fearful of a confrontation with Russia and the famous quote

Lest we forget the statement by the none to clever Omar Bradley..............'"The wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, and with the wrong enemy" is General Omar Bradley's famous rebuke in his May 15, 1951 Congressional as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the idea of extending the Korean War into China, as proposed by General Douglas MacArthur, the commander of the U.N. ...that was just one example of the prevailing fallacious attitude of the weaklings in Washington who stabbed MacArthur in the back.

A prime example of why MacArthur got fired

He just didn’t understand the politics of the situation
We had just lost 400,000 soldiers five years earlier. The American people were not going to tolerate another meat grinder especially in a hell hole like Korea that nobody cared if they existed

We lost 50,000 in Korea because of MacArthurs arrogance

Nonsense.......what needs to be understood is why America was so weak that the communists felt emboldened to attack S. Korea?

you must not have understood my previous post
here:
we lost to the communist:
Vietnam
Laos
Cambodia
Cuba
and---guess what?? the US is ok!
we didn't need to be there..it was a waste
we get involved in too much crap

Bay of Pigs--$$$$ lost
Nicaragua ???!!!

...first we are friends with and helping the Taliban/Afghanis --then we are at war over there
...first we are friends with Iran--then enemies with Iran and friends with Iraq helping Iraq fight Iran
then we go to war with Iraq !!!!!!!????!! WTF?

we need to stay out of a lot of these insignificant conflicts

 

[harmonica]

the Chinese kicked UN ass in the FIRST Chinese Offense circa October right after the UN crossed [ the only main unit not getting a bloody nose was the USMC ]
--so we have the UN getting it's ass kicked by --the Chinese!!!
--still---it wasn't that big of a failure as the Second Offensive---

and Mac fails to believe the Chinese are there in force!!! after the UN got it's a$$ kicked
he SPLITS his forces!! with the X Corps on the right
then most of his units are extended/over stretched--as NK was at Inchon
the Chinese withdraw into the mountains
there are 300,000 Chinese in NK at this time

and after this--Mac makes the BIG mistake!! he wants to keep going into the COLD, icy, snowy, hilly mountains !!!
he STILL thinks the Chinese are irrelevant !!!
and this creates one of the greatest disasters in American military history when a whole CORPS is thrown off the battle continent--along with the 8th getting it's ass kicked and retreating big time

after this huge setback of the First Offensive--any idiot could know that he should not have kept going as he did

The marines were well trained....but most Army units after the end of WWII had fallen into a sad state of neglect. If one watches the video you will see how the battle at the chosin reservoir woke up those in Washington tasked with maintaining our military power...they realized finally that we must maintain adequate and will trained forces to deal with any threat anywhere in the world after the debacle at chosin.

next time please capitalize Marines ..thanks in advance

 

[TheGreenHornet]

None of the United Nations forces, including our own, had the slightest chance of defeating the Chinese forces. Our forces were all mechanized, and could only advance using roads in North Korea. Chinese forces were not, therefor they traveled and fought in the mountains and hills with mostly infantry, and some limited small artillery. They traveled at night to avoid our aircraft. They had little regard for their own lives. They attacked in waves, with the 3rd and 4th wave not even having been issued guns and ammo. They picked that up from dead soldiers. The final wave was a blocking wave with machine guns, with orders to fire at any Chinese troops retreating without orders.

Actually we did in fact defeat the Chinese forces badly.

Exactly....the only thing stopping a clear cut victory in Korea was leftwing politicians and leftwing state dept. riddled with soviet spies. Truman who drank way too much whisky was too fearful of a confrontation with Russia and the famous quote

Lest we forget the statement by the none to clever Omar Bradley..............'"The wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, and with the wrong enemy" is General Omar Bradley's famous rebuke in his May 15, 1951 Congressional as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the idea of extending the Korean War into China, as proposed by General Douglas MacArthur, the commander of the U.N. ...that was just one example of the prevailing fallacious attitude of the weaklings in Washington who stabbed MacArthur in the back.

A prime example of why MacArthur got fired

He just didn’t understand the politics of the situation
We had just lost 400,000 soldiers five years earlier. The American people were not going to tolerate another meat grinder especially in a hell hole like Korea that nobody cared if they existed

We lost 50,000 in Korea because of MacArthurs arrogance

Nonsense.......what needs to be understood is why America was so weak that the communists felt emboldened to attack S. Korea?

you must not have understood my previous post
here:
we lost to the communist:
Vietnam
Laos
Cambodia
Cuba
and---guess what?? the US is ok!
we didn't need to be there..it was a waste
we get involved in too much crap

Bay of Pigs--$$$$ lost
Nicaragua ???!!!

...first we are friends with and helping the Taliban/Afghanis --then we are at war over there
...first we are friends with Iran--then enemies with Iran and friends with Iraq helping Iraq fight Iran
then we go to war with Iraq !!!!!!!????!! WTF?

we need to stay out of a lot of these insignificant conflicts

Isolationism is the most dangerous of all possible foreign policies. A brief history of American isolationism

 

[TheGreenHornet]

the Chinese kicked UN ass in the FIRST Chinese Offense circa October right after the UN crossed [ the only main unit not getting a bloody nose was the USMC ]
--so we have the UN getting it's ass kicked by --the Chinese!!!
--still---it wasn't that big of a failure as the Second Offensive---

and Mac fails to believe the Chinese are there in force!!! after the UN got it's a$$ kicked
he SPLITS his forces!! with the X Corps on the right
then most of his units are extended/over stretched--as NK was at Inchon
the Chinese withdraw into the mountains
there are 300,000 Chinese in NK at this time

and after this--Mac makes the BIG mistake!! he wants to keep going into the COLD, icy, snowy, hilly mountains !!!
he STILL thinks the Chinese are irrelevant !!!
and this creates one of the greatest disasters in American military history when a whole CORPS is thrown off the battle continent--along with the 8th getting it's ass kicked and retreating big time

after this huge setback of the First Offensive--any idiot could know that he should not have kept going as he did

The marines were well trained....but most Army units after the end of WWII had fallen into a sad state of neglect. If one watches the video you will see how the battle at the chosin reservoir woke up those in Washington tasked with maintaining our military power...they realized finally that we must maintain adequate and will trained forces to deal with any threat anywhere in the world after the debacle at chosin.

next time please capitalize Marines ..thanks in advance

Sorry, my mistake. I do apologize...For the record...I greatly admire the Marine Corps.

 

[harmonica]

There is no doubt MacArthur was wrong in his analysis of what China might do....and not only MacArthur but his staff (including intelligence officers) simply had little respect for the military capabilities of china....referring to them as laundrymen....their perspective on China was based largely on China's military performance in WWII which was very poor.

But also...........one must consider all the limitations placed on MacArthur by Truman i.e. refusing to let our AirForce go beyond the Yalu River and knock out China's ability to invade N.Korea etc.etc. basically the whole fallacious and disastrous policy of 'limited war' was begun by the Truman Administration and a pc communist ridden state Dept. which was a huge, huge security leak as in they were thoroughly penetrated by Russian Intelligence agents.


General Douglas MacArthur Defends His Conduct in the War in Korea | Teaching American History

...the US did not want a war with China--that would've been really stupid---we couldn't beat tiny North Vietnam...you don't want to go dropping A bombs for nothing--especially for a civil war....you can't beat China--too big--too many people
...most wars are ''limited''

my father fought at the Chosin
temps down to 30 below [ not wind chill ]...snowy, icy. hilly terrrain
after fighting for 2 days, with little sleep, they went ''cross-country'' in those temps to save Fox Company around 2 Dec

however, so what if the North took over?...North Vietnam took over the South
the communists took over Laos and Cambodia, and Cuba--no big deal

Not a good line of reasoning....anyhow what was your father's thoughts on the Korean stalemate?

..like a lot of men in WW2 Aug 1945 were glad the war was over
..like a lot of Nam vets say--''WTF were we over there for''? and were glad to be out of there
..this was a civil war--not another country attacking an innocent one
..I'm sure my father was glad to get out of there in 51'