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U.S./ U.N forces were in pretty sad shape after the N.K. surprise attack on the South (apparently the CIA was clueless) and U.S. Troops were pushed to the bottom of the peninsula until General MacArthur developed the risky Inchon Landing strategy that cut the N.K. supply lines and isolated N.K. troops. U.S. forces retook the S.K. capital and went on to take the N.K. capital of Pongyang. The conflict was over in less than a year and N.K. ceased to be a threat, but wait. Something happened in the Truman administration and in the mind of the Old Soldier. Red China said that they would enter the conflict if U.S. Troops approached the Yalu River border between Korea and China but why would that happen. MacArthur never spent a single night in Korea, preferring to rely on faulty intelligence supplied by sycophant general Ned Almond and Truman apparently didn't have sense enough or the political courage to tell the old WW1 general to stop. The perfect storm of a winter campaign in a country known for the harshest winters in the world by ill equipped and exhausted U.S. Troops was developing so that MacArthur could fulfill his vow to "piss in the Yalu". It was crazy and ill advised but the media stood behind MacArthur and never wavered and Truman hid under a desk in the White House and the setup for the biggest ambush in history was unraveling. MacArthur's sycophant general tried to goad Marines like General O.P. Smith and Lewis "Chesty" Puller into risky advances until the shit hit the fan at the Chosen. Marine General Puller managed to fight his way out of a trap and took Marine and Army units to safety but the politics had already entered the story. The liberal media still defended Truman and MacArthur even after MacArthur made crazy claims of nuking China and was finally relieved of duty (to a tickertape parade). The damage was done and the conflict lasted three years and ended up in an embarasing truce and we ended up back where we started at the cost of 50,000 American lives.
A prime example of why MacArthur got firedNone of the United Nations forces, including our own, had the slightest chance of defeating the Chinese forces. Our forces were all mechanized, and could only advance using roads in North Korea. Chinese forces were not, therefor they traveled and fought in the mountains and hills with mostly infantry, and some limited small artillery. They traveled at night to avoid our aircraft. They had little regard for their own lives. They attacked in waves, with the 3rd and 4th wave not even having been issued guns and ammo. They picked that up from dead soldiers. The final wave was a blocking wave with machine guns, with orders to fire at any Chinese troops retreating without orders.
Actually we did in fact defeat the Chinese forces badly.
Exactly....the only thing stopping a clear cut victory in Korea was leftwing politicians and leftwing state dept. riddled with soviet spies. Truman who drank way too much whisky was too fearful of a confrontation with Russia and the famous quote
Lest we forget the statement by the none to clever Omar Bradley..............'"The wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, and with the wrong enemy" is General Omar Bradley's famous rebuke in his May 15, 1951 Congressional as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the idea of extending the Korean War into China, as proposed by General Douglas MacArthur, the commander of the U.N. ...that was just one example of the prevailing fallacious attitude of the weaklings in Washington who stabbed MacArthur in the back.
....a ''lot'' of what are thought to be risky landings are that--just thoughts--the big one = D DayInchon was a stroke of luck.
A bold move by a tactical genius is more accurate...........anyhow....as someone once said.....better to be lucky than good.
The Inchon landing was opposed as being too risky by the Joint Chiefs of Staff.....but MacArthur's decision(it too extreme courage)to land there demonstrated once again his tactical genius. Not to forget...................During World War 2, General Douglas MacArthur developed the strategy of island hopping. He would capture certain islands. The Americans would use those islands to get closer to their goal. He would leave Japanese troops to starve on the other islands. He would not waste American lives trying to capture those islands. The objective was to get close enough to Japan to establish bomber bases capable of dropping bombs on Japan. Brilliant strategy.
The MacArthur Revival | RealClearDefense
sure--go to war with China--that's a good line of reasoning??!...the US did not want a war with China--that would've been really stupid---we couldn't beat tiny North Vietnam...you don't want to go dropping A bombs for nothing--especially for a civil war....you can't beat China--too big--too many peopleThere is no doubt MacArthur was wrong in his analysis of what China might do....and not only MacArthur but his staff (including intelligence officers) simply had little respect for the military capabilities of china....referring to them as laundrymen....their perspective on China was based largely on China's military performance in WWII which was very poor.
But also...........one must consider all the limitations placed on MacArthur by Truman i.e. refusing to let our AirForce go beyond the Yalu River and knock out China's ability to invade N.Korea etc.etc. basically the whole fallacious and disastrous policy of 'limited war' was begun by the Truman Administration and a pc communist ridden state Dept. which was a huge, huge security leak as in they were thoroughly penetrated by Russian Intelligence agents.
General Douglas MacArthur Defends His Conduct in the War in Korea | Teaching American History
...most wars are ''limited''
my father fought at the Chosin
temps down to 30 below [ not wind chill ]...snowy, icy. hilly terrrain
after fighting for 2 days, with little sleep, they went ''cross-country'' in those temps to save Fox Company around 2 Dec
however, so what if the North took over?...North Vietnam took over the South
the communists took over Laos and Cambodia, and Cuba--no big deal
Not a good line of reasoning....anyhow what was your father's thoughts on the Korean stalemate?
my father never talked about the political side of it
Economically...yessure--go to war with China--that's a good line of reasoning??!...the US did not want a war with China--that would've been really stupid---we couldn't beat tiny North Vietnam...you don't want to go dropping A bombs for nothing--especially for a civil war....you can't beat China--too big--too many peopleThere is no doubt MacArthur was wrong in his analysis of what China might do....and not only MacArthur but his staff (including intelligence officers) simply had little respect for the military capabilities of china....referring to them as laundrymen....their perspective on China was based largely on China's military performance in WWII which was very poor.
But also...........one must consider all the limitations placed on MacArthur by Truman i.e. refusing to let our AirForce go beyond the Yalu River and knock out China's ability to invade N.Korea etc.etc. basically the whole fallacious and disastrous policy of 'limited war' was begun by the Truman Administration and a pc communist ridden state Dept. which was a huge, huge security leak as in they were thoroughly penetrated by Russian Intelligence agents.
General Douglas MacArthur Defends His Conduct in the War in Korea | Teaching American History
...most wars are ''limited''
my father fought at the Chosin
temps down to 30 below [ not wind chill ]...snowy, icy. hilly terrrain
after fighting for 2 days, with little sleep, they went ''cross-country'' in those temps to save Fox Company around 2 Dec
however, so what if the North took over?...North Vietnam took over the South
the communists took over Laos and Cambodia, and Cuba--no big deal
Not a good line of reasoning....anyhow what was your father's thoughts on the Korean stalemate?
my father never talked about the political side of it
No one wants to go to war but as Dick Cheney recently said China is now America's greatest threat.
A prime example of why MacArthur got firedNone of the United Nations forces, including our own, had the slightest chance of defeating the Chinese forces. Our forces were all mechanized, and could only advance using roads in North Korea. Chinese forces were not, therefor they traveled and fought in the mountains and hills with mostly infantry, and some limited small artillery. They traveled at night to avoid our aircraft. They had little regard for their own lives. They attacked in waves, with the 3rd and 4th wave not even having been issued guns and ammo. They picked that up from dead soldiers. The final wave was a blocking wave with machine guns, with orders to fire at any Chinese troops retreating without orders.
Actually we did in fact defeat the Chinese forces badly.
Exactly....the only thing stopping a clear cut victory in Korea was leftwing politicians and leftwing state dept. riddled with soviet spies. Truman who drank way too much whisky was too fearful of a confrontation with Russia and the famous quote
Lest we forget the statement by the none to clever Omar Bradley..............'"The wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, and with the wrong enemy" is General Omar Bradley's famous rebuke in his May 15, 1951 Congressional as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the idea of extending the Korean War into China, as proposed by General Douglas MacArthur, the commander of the U.N. ...that was just one example of the prevailing fallacious attitude of the weaklings in Washington who stabbed MacArthur in the back.
He just didn’t understand the politics of the situation
We had just lost 400,000 soldiers five years earlier. The American people were not going to tolerate another meat grinder especially in a hell hole like Korea that nobody cared if they existed
We lost 50,000 in Korea because of MacArthurs arrogance
ok here it is again
North Korea
-----
a. the temps got down to 30 BELOW 0 [ not windchill ]
b. snowy, hilly, icy terrain
c. X Corps had virtually 1 MSR with a and b
!!!!!!!!!!!!!duh duh...this makes just movement extremely slow/etc--
...makes everything slower--movement, refueling, eating. supply, vehicles, etc
easy to cut off the UN troops!
in 1 book I read, a Marine intel officer said it would've been easy for an enemy to stop the UN troops because of a, b, c
the USMC general knew it was stupid to go headlong up to the Yalu--
that's why he more or less disobeyed orders not to go fast
he laid depots and kept the unit ''together''
...the USMC was the only large unit not to get it's a$$ kicked--the USMC destroyed many divisions during the Chosin and kept the Chinese from being able to take advantage of their 2nd Offensive victories
to be continued
http://www3.nccu.edu.tw/~lorenzo/Hao Chinas Decision.pdf3. There was a geographical advantage. The narrow shape of the Korean peninsula and the mountainous area in North Korea would greatly limit the mobility of MacArthur's mechanized forces and ground firepower, and it would be advantageous for China in conducting defensive actions. Though MacArthur could get part of his logistic support from Japan, the greater part of his supplies would have to be transported from America- more than 10,000 miles away. By comparison, China's supply route from home, and from the Soviet Union, would be much shorter.74
the Chinese kicked UN ass in the FIRST Chinese Offense circa October right after the UN crossed [ the only main unit not getting a bloody nose was the USMC ]
--so we have the UN getting it's ass kicked by --the Chinese!!!
--still---it wasn't that big of a failure as the Second Offensive---
and Mac fails to believe the Chinese are there in force!!! after the UN got it's a$$ kicked
he SPLITS his forces!! with the X Corps on the right
then most of his units are extended/over stretched--as NK was at Inchon
the Chinese withdraw into the mountains
there are 300,000 Chinese in NK at this time
and after this--Mac makes the BIG mistake!! he wants to keep going into the COLD, icy, snowy, hilly mountains !!!
he STILL thinks the Chinese are irrelevant !!!
and this creates one of the greatest disasters in American military history when a whole CORPS is thrown off the battle continent--along with the 8th getting it's ass kicked and retreating big time
after this huge setback of the First Offensive--any idiot could know that he should not have kept going as he did
I do not like the prospect of stringing out a Marine division along a single mountain road for 120 air miles from Hamhung to the border
"Although the Chinese have withdrawn to the north, I have not pressed Litzenberg to make any rapid advance. Our orders still require us to advance to the Manchurian border.
etc etcI believe a winter campaign in the mountains of North Korea is too much to ask of the American soldier or Marine, and I doubt the feasibility of supplying troops in this area during the winter or providing for the evacuation of sick or wounded."
Weak?A prime example of why MacArthur got firedNone of the United Nations forces, including our own, had the slightest chance of defeating the Chinese forces. Our forces were all mechanized, and could only advance using roads in North Korea. Chinese forces were not, therefor they traveled and fought in the mountains and hills with mostly infantry, and some limited small artillery. They traveled at night to avoid our aircraft. They had little regard for their own lives. They attacked in waves, with the 3rd and 4th wave not even having been issued guns and ammo. They picked that up from dead soldiers. The final wave was a blocking wave with machine guns, with orders to fire at any Chinese troops retreating without orders.
Actually we did in fact defeat the Chinese forces badly.
Exactly....the only thing stopping a clear cut victory in Korea was leftwing politicians and leftwing state dept. riddled with soviet spies. Truman who drank way too much whisky was too fearful of a confrontation with Russia and the famous quote
Lest we forget the statement by the none to clever Omar Bradley..............'"The wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, and with the wrong enemy" is General Omar Bradley's famous rebuke in his May 15, 1951 Congressional as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the idea of extending the Korean War into China, as proposed by General Douglas MacArthur, the commander of the U.N. ...that was just one example of the prevailing fallacious attitude of the weaklings in Washington who stabbed MacArthur in the back.
He just didn’t understand the politics of the situation
We had just lost 400,000 soldiers five years earlier. The American people were not going to tolerate another meat grinder especially in a hell hole like Korea that nobody cared if they existed
We lost 50,000 in Korea because of MacArthurs arrogance
Nonsense.......what needs to be understood is why America was so weak that the communists felt emboldened to attack S. Korea?
Weak?A prime example of why MacArthur got firedNone of the United Nations forces, including our own, had the slightest chance of defeating the Chinese forces. Our forces were all mechanized, and could only advance using roads in North Korea. Chinese forces were not, therefor they traveled and fought in the mountains and hills with mostly infantry, and some limited small artillery. They traveled at night to avoid our aircraft. They had little regard for their own lives. They attacked in waves, with the 3rd and 4th wave not even having been issued guns and ammo. They picked that up from dead soldiers. The final wave was a blocking wave with machine guns, with orders to fire at any Chinese troops retreating without orders.
Actually we did in fact defeat the Chinese forces badly.
Exactly....the only thing stopping a clear cut victory in Korea was leftwing politicians and leftwing state dept. riddled with soviet spies. Truman who drank way too much whisky was too fearful of a confrontation with Russia and the famous quote
Lest we forget the statement by the none to clever Omar Bradley..............'"The wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, and with the wrong enemy" is General Omar Bradley's famous rebuke in his May 15, 1951 Congressional as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the idea of extending the Korean War into China, as proposed by General Douglas MacArthur, the commander of the U.N. ...that was just one example of the prevailing fallacious attitude of the weaklings in Washington who stabbed MacArthur in the back.
He just didn’t understand the politics of the situation
We had just lost 400,000 soldiers five years earlier. The American people were not going to tolerate another meat grinder especially in a hell hole like Korea that nobody cared if they existed
We lost 50,000 in Korea because of MacArthurs arrogance
Nonsense.......what needs to be understood is why America was so weak that the communists felt emboldened to attack S. Korea?
Who the hell wanted to get into another war less than five years after we fought WWII?
War mongers don’t care if we lose more soldiers......the American people did
Who wants to give their son for S Korea?
you must not have understood my previous postA prime example of why MacArthur got firedNone of the United Nations forces, including our own, had the slightest chance of defeating the Chinese forces. Our forces were all mechanized, and could only advance using roads in North Korea. Chinese forces were not, therefor they traveled and fought in the mountains and hills with mostly infantry, and some limited small artillery. They traveled at night to avoid our aircraft. They had little regard for their own lives. They attacked in waves, with the 3rd and 4th wave not even having been issued guns and ammo. They picked that up from dead soldiers. The final wave was a blocking wave with machine guns, with orders to fire at any Chinese troops retreating without orders.
Actually we did in fact defeat the Chinese forces badly.
Exactly....the only thing stopping a clear cut victory in Korea was leftwing politicians and leftwing state dept. riddled with soviet spies. Truman who drank way too much whisky was too fearful of a confrontation with Russia and the famous quote
Lest we forget the statement by the none to clever Omar Bradley..............'"The wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, and with the wrong enemy" is General Omar Bradley's famous rebuke in his May 15, 1951 Congressional as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the idea of extending the Korean War into China, as proposed by General Douglas MacArthur, the commander of the U.N. ...that was just one example of the prevailing fallacious attitude of the weaklings in Washington who stabbed MacArthur in the back.
He just didn’t understand the politics of the situation
We had just lost 400,000 soldiers five years earlier. The American people were not going to tolerate another meat grinder especially in a hell hole like Korea that nobody cared if they existed
We lost 50,000 in Korea because of MacArthurs arrogance
Nonsense.......what needs to be understood is why America was so weak that the communists felt emboldened to attack S. Korea?
next time please capitalize Marines ..thanks in advancethe Chinese kicked UN ass in the FIRST Chinese Offense circa October right after the UN crossed [ the only main unit not getting a bloody nose was the USMC ]
--so we have the UN getting it's ass kicked by --the Chinese!!!
--still---it wasn't that big of a failure as the Second Offensive---
and Mac fails to believe the Chinese are there in force!!! after the UN got it's a$$ kicked
he SPLITS his forces!! with the X Corps on the right
then most of his units are extended/over stretched--as NK was at Inchon
the Chinese withdraw into the mountains
there are 300,000 Chinese in NK at this time
and after this--Mac makes the BIG mistake!! he wants to keep going into the COLD, icy, snowy, hilly mountains !!!
he STILL thinks the Chinese are irrelevant !!!
and this creates one of the greatest disasters in American military history when a whole CORPS is thrown off the battle continent--along with the 8th getting it's ass kicked and retreating big time
after this huge setback of the First Offensive--any idiot could know that he should not have kept going as he did
The marines were well trained....but most Army units after the end of WWII had fallen into a sad state of neglect. If one watches the video you will see how the battle at the chosin reservoir woke up those in Washington tasked with maintaining our military power...they realized finally that we must maintain adequate and will trained forces to deal with any threat anywhere in the world after the debacle at chosin.
you must not have understood my previous postA prime example of why MacArthur got firedNone of the United Nations forces, including our own, had the slightest chance of defeating the Chinese forces. Our forces were all mechanized, and could only advance using roads in North Korea. Chinese forces were not, therefor they traveled and fought in the mountains and hills with mostly infantry, and some limited small artillery. They traveled at night to avoid our aircraft. They had little regard for their own lives. They attacked in waves, with the 3rd and 4th wave not even having been issued guns and ammo. They picked that up from dead soldiers. The final wave was a blocking wave with machine guns, with orders to fire at any Chinese troops retreating without orders.
Actually we did in fact defeat the Chinese forces badly.
Exactly....the only thing stopping a clear cut victory in Korea was leftwing politicians and leftwing state dept. riddled with soviet spies. Truman who drank way too much whisky was too fearful of a confrontation with Russia and the famous quote
Lest we forget the statement by the none to clever Omar Bradley..............'"The wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, and with the wrong enemy" is General Omar Bradley's famous rebuke in his May 15, 1951 Congressional as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the idea of extending the Korean War into China, as proposed by General Douglas MacArthur, the commander of the U.N. ...that was just one example of the prevailing fallacious attitude of the weaklings in Washington who stabbed MacArthur in the back.
He just didn’t understand the politics of the situation
We had just lost 400,000 soldiers five years earlier. The American people were not going to tolerate another meat grinder especially in a hell hole like Korea that nobody cared if they existed
We lost 50,000 in Korea because of MacArthurs arrogance
Nonsense.......what needs to be understood is why America was so weak that the communists felt emboldened to attack S. Korea?
here:
we lost to the communist:
Vietnam
Laos
Cambodia
Cuba
and---guess what?? the US is ok!
we didn't need to be there..it was a waste
we get involved in too much crap
Bay of Pigs--$$$$ lost
Nicaragua ???!!!
...first we are friends with and helping the Taliban/Afghanis --then we are at war over there
...first we are friends with Iran--then enemies with Iran and friends with Iraq helping Iraq fight Iran
then we go to war with Iraq !!!!!!!????!! WTF?
we need to stay out of a lot of these insignificant conflicts
next time please capitalize Marines ..thanks in advancethe Chinese kicked UN ass in the FIRST Chinese Offense circa October right after the UN crossed [ the only main unit not getting a bloody nose was the USMC ]
--so we have the UN getting it's ass kicked by --the Chinese!!!
--still---it wasn't that big of a failure as the Second Offensive---
and Mac fails to believe the Chinese are there in force!!! after the UN got it's a$$ kicked
he SPLITS his forces!! with the X Corps on the right
then most of his units are extended/over stretched--as NK was at Inchon
the Chinese withdraw into the mountains
there are 300,000 Chinese in NK at this time
and after this--Mac makes the BIG mistake!! he wants to keep going into the COLD, icy, snowy, hilly mountains !!!
he STILL thinks the Chinese are irrelevant !!!
and this creates one of the greatest disasters in American military history when a whole CORPS is thrown off the battle continent--along with the 8th getting it's ass kicked and retreating big time
after this huge setback of the First Offensive--any idiot could know that he should not have kept going as he did
The marines were well trained....but most Army units after the end of WWII had fallen into a sad state of neglect. If one watches the video you will see how the battle at the chosin reservoir woke up those in Washington tasked with maintaining our military power...they realized finally that we must maintain adequate and will trained forces to deal with any threat anywhere in the world after the debacle at chosin.
..like a lot of men in WW2 Aug 1945 were glad the war was over...the US did not want a war with China--that would've been really stupid---we couldn't beat tiny North Vietnam...you don't want to go dropping A bombs for nothing--especially for a civil war....you can't beat China--too big--too many peopleThere is no doubt MacArthur was wrong in his analysis of what China might do....and not only MacArthur but his staff (including intelligence officers) simply had little respect for the military capabilities of china....referring to them as laundrymen....their perspective on China was based largely on China's military performance in WWII which was very poor.
But also...........one must consider all the limitations placed on MacArthur by Truman i.e. refusing to let our AirForce go beyond the Yalu River and knock out China's ability to invade N.Korea etc.etc. basically the whole fallacious and disastrous policy of 'limited war' was begun by the Truman Administration and a pc communist ridden state Dept. which was a huge, huge security leak as in they were thoroughly penetrated by Russian Intelligence agents.
General Douglas MacArthur Defends His Conduct in the War in Korea | Teaching American History
...most wars are ''limited''
my father fought at the Chosin
temps down to 30 below [ not wind chill ]...snowy, icy. hilly terrrain
after fighting for 2 days, with little sleep, they went ''cross-country'' in those temps to save Fox Company around 2 Dec
however, so what if the North took over?...North Vietnam took over the South
the communists took over Laos and Cambodia, and Cuba--no big deal
Not a good line of reasoning....anyhow what was your father's thoughts on the Korean stalemate?
