The American Traveler Dignity Act

[Skull Pilot]

If the courts were not infested with judges who think the Constitution is "a living, breathing document," i.e., there really is no Constitution, there would be no need for laws like this, since we already have the 5th Amendment.

i think you mean the fourth.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yep. Good old Ron Paul. Who needs guarantees for the safety of airplane passengers anyway?

So you guarantee no terrorist can get past the TSA?

Christ almighty. Is Revere your sockpuppet?

I guarantee that it's a lot harder for a terrorist to get onto a plane with all these security measures in place. If whiney little bitches don't want to deal with this, then they are more than welcome to travel on buses. I'll personally take a little inconvenience rather than see something like this: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNNTcHq5Tzk[/ame]

How complacent we have become less than 10 years later.

Complacent? I don't think so, but does that mean we have to insist on being stupid?

The security boss of Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport is calling for an end to endless investment in new technology to improve airline security.
Marijn Ornstein said: "If you look at all the recent terrorist incidents, the bombs were detected because of human intelligence not because of screening ... If even a fraction of what is spent on screening was invested in the intelligence services we would take a real step toward making air travel safer and more pleasant."
She said authorities were in an arms race with terrorist organisations and were always a step behind.
Ornstein added: "With every incident that happens, the regulators ask for more measures, more measures, more measures," she said. "As soon as they heard about this [the recent plot to load PETN explosives into printer ink cartridges] we got letters from the US and the UK telling us to take out all the ink cartridges coming through, which means we are fighting yesterday's war because there is no terrorist in the world who is now going to put PETN into an ink cartridge anyway," according to Euobserver
She also said that Schiphol is running out of space for extra equipment and running out people to recruit as security guards. Security costs at Schiphol have gone up 175 per cent in five years and one in 10 security guards in Amsterdam now work at the airport.

Airport security boss calls time on tech ? The Register

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yep. Good old Ron Paul. Who needs guarantees for the safety of airplane passengers anyway?

So you guarantee no terrorist can get past the TSA?

Christ almighty. Is Revere your sockpuppet?

I guarantee that it's a lot harder for a terrorist to get onto a plane with all these security measures in place. If whiney little bitches don't want to deal with this, then they are more than welcome to travel on buses. I'll personally take a little inconvenience rather than see something like this: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNNTcHq5Tzk[/ame]

How complacent we have become less than 10 years later.

you do realize that most of what goes into the cargo holds of planes is not screened at all don't you?

 

[Ravi]

Actually it is. There's no reason that you have to use a phone, buy a book, or use the internet anymore than somebody has to ride an airplane.

No...we have freedom of speech, and the freedom to say what we please without interference from Government. And the Government must have a reason to monitor our speech. We do not enjoy the same freedom of action, and even if we did, the Government has a reason to monitor our action in this instance.

I am no more comfortable with this than you are but it is not a civil rights issue.

Even if we do enjoy the freedom of speech the government has a reason to monitor our action in this instance. What if we're making secret phone calls about blowing up buildings?

That's not my actual position by the way, but merely turning around your logic.

If they have evidence you are doing that and a warrant, they can and should listen to you. And if you set off an alarm going through security there is no civil right involved as to whether you are searched more...

Are you trying to tell me if we did profile, as Israel does, that if TSA suspected someone was a terrorist they would not be able to do anything about it?

 

[edthecynic]

Profile Profile Profile. When it comes down to getting all felt up and standing naked in front of the world then it's time to profile profile profile.

Willow...can you tell me how to profile?

I'm not sure how. Who would you suggest that we screen?

No, I'm not the one to tell you. The FBI would know. Write to them. And it's been successful for El Al for many years. They also could teach us. It not little three year old though I'd bet money on that.

The "little 3 year old's" teddy bear set off the alarms. Do you really think the terrorists wouldn't hide explosives on their children? Do you really think the terrorists wouldn't tell their child to through a tantrum if they are searched? This mother and daughter could have easily been a terrorist test run to see how far the TSA would go in searching children. At the very least we know the GOP is leaping at the opportunity to use this incident to make us more vulnerable to the terrorist attack on our soil the GOP so desires in their belief it will help them to regain their power!

 

[Skull Pilot]

I just can't see this as a civil rights issue since no one is forced to board an airplane.

No one is forced to walk down the street either. So it's OK for you to be stopped and groped by a cop willy nilly?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And it's applied equally.

the problem is they don't want it to be applied equally. and THAT is what this is all about.

Typical.

Applying it equally makes it both more costly, and less effective. The smarter thing to do would be to spend money to find terrorists, not on detecting the last bomb. Why don't you think with your brain instead of your adrenal gland?

 

[Skull Pilot]

One wonders if Paul would fly an airline with no security? Aren't libertarians all about complete freedumb leading to utopia?

It strikes me as odd that 'Shock and Awe' was OK after 911, but full body scans and crotch pats are taboo. Americans felt fine bombing others to eternity, but any personal infringement even in the name of security is off limits. This story has such life, but the invasion of Iraq on trumped up charges had so little.



"The difference between a healthy person and one who is mentally ill is the fact that the healthy one has all the mental illnesses, and the mentally ill person has only one." Robert Musil

One can have security without a cavity search.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

No...we have freedom of speech, and the freedom to say what we please without interference from Government. And the Government must have a reason to monitor our speech. We do not enjoy the same freedom of action, and even if we did, the Government has a reason to monitor our action in this instance.

I am no more comfortable with this than you are but it is not a civil rights issue.

Even if we do enjoy the freedom of speech the government has a reason to monitor our action in this instance. What if we're making secret phone calls about blowing up buildings?

That's not my actual position by the way, but merely turning around your logic.

If they have evidence you are doing that and a warrant, they can and should listen to you. And if you set off an alarm going through security there is no civil right involved as to whether you are searched more...

Are you trying to tell me if we did profile, as Israel does, that if TSA suspected someone was a terrorist they would not be able to do anything about it?

Except the TSA is not merely molesting and irradiating people based on whether they have evidence that you're a terrorist, but applying it to anyone they want. So they're violating civil liberties the same way the Patriot Act and FISA does.

I'm not interested in profiling like my conservative friends. I advocate the abolition of the TSA all together and allowing the airlines to handle their own security. Armed pilots or armed guards, or both, are better deterrents than molesting people in my opinion.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Willow...can you tell me how to profile?

I'm not sure how. Who would you suggest that we screen?

No, I'm not the one to tell you. The FBI would know. Write to them. And it's been successful for El Al for many years. They also could teach us. It not little three year old though I'd bet money on that.

The "little 3 year old's" teddy bear set off the alarms. Do you really think the terrorists wouldn't hide explosives on their children? Do you really think the terrorists wouldn't tell their child to through a tantrum if they are searched? This mother and daughter could have easily been a terrorist test run to see how far the TSA would go in searching children. At the very least we know the GOP is leaping at the opportunity to use this incident to make us more vulnerable to the terrorist attack on our soil the GOP so desires in their belief it will help them to regain their power!

Fear-mongering nonsense.

 

[xotoxi]

One can have security without a cavity search.

The last cavity search I had was when I went to the dentist.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I just can't see this as a civil rights issue since no one is forced to board an airplane.

No one is forced to walk down the street either. So it's OK for you to be stopped and groped by a cop willy nilly?

No one is forced to go to the mall either. I wonder if we should put these porno-scanners in malls and force people to go through them before they can shop for the Christmas season?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

When will the terrorists get smart and just detonate their bombs while in the screening line at the airport?

Then they will move the screening lines again, and again. Pretty soon they will screen everyone in their home, and taking them to the airport in the back of police cars. anyone who objects to this would obviously be a terrorists supporter, and can choose another way to travel.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I just can't see this as a civil rights issue since no one is forced to board an airplane.

No one is forced to walk down the street either. So it's OK for you to be stopped and groped by a cop willy nilly?

No one is forced to go to the mall either. I wonder if we should put these porno-scanners in malls and force people to go through them before they can shop for the Christmas season?

Don't you think that if there were a real terrorist threat to this country that a dozen or so jihadists would walk into a dozen different malls and all blow themselves up in a synchronized attack?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

No one is forced to walk down the street either. So it's OK for you to be stopped and groped by a cop willy nilly?

No one is forced to go to the mall either. I wonder if we should put these porno-scanners in malls and force people to go through them before they can shop for the Christmas season?

Don't you think that if there were a real terrorist threat to this country that a dozen or so jihadists would walk into a dozen different malls and all blow themselves up in a synchronized attack?

Anyone who opposes porno-scanners in malls clearly doesn't care about the security of America.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Willow...can you tell me how to profile?

I'm not sure how. Who would you suggest that we screen?

No, I'm not the one to tell you. The FBI would know. Write to them. And it's been successful for El Al for many years. They also could teach us. It not little three year old though I'd bet money on that.

The "little 3 year old's" teddy bear set off the alarms. Do you really think the terrorists wouldn't hide explosives on their children? Do you really think the terrorists wouldn't tell their child to through a tantrum if they are searched? This mother and daughter could have easily been a terrorist test run to see how far the TSA would go in searching children. At the very least we know the GOP is leaping at the opportunity to use this incident to make us more vulnerable to the terrorist attack on our soil the GOP so desires in their belief it will help them to regain their power!

The teddy bear did not set off any alarms, it went through the luggage scanner. For some reason the alarm went off when the child passed through the scanner, and she was subjected to a pat down. If you are going to try and make me piss my pants to agree with you you should at least get your facts straight.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I just can't see this as a civil rights issue since no one is forced to board an airplane.

No one is forced to walk down the street either. So it's OK for you to be stopped and groped by a cop willy nilly?

Only if you live on the East Coast.

U.S. lawsuit targets Philly's "stop-and-frisk" policy | Philadelphia Inquirer | 11/05/2010

 

[Ravi]

I just can't see this as a civil rights issue since no one is forced to board an airplane.

No one is forced to walk down the street either. So it's OK for you to be stopped and groped by a cop willy nilly?

No one is forced to go to the mall either. I wonder if we should put these porno-scanners in malls and force people to go through them before they can shop for the Christmas season?

You both are being silly. While I agree that the security is probably worthless in the long run at the airports as it now stands, no one is highjacking a shopping mall and ramming it into a building.

 

[Revere]

No one is forced to walk down the street either. So it's OK for you to be stopped and groped by a cop willy nilly?

No one is forced to go to the mall either. I wonder if we should put these porno-scanners in malls and force people to go through them before they can shop for the Christmas season?

You both are being silly. While I agree that the security is probably worthless in the long run at the airports as it now stands, no one is highjacking a shopping mall and ramming it into a building.

Terrorists routinely blow up trains stations and markets in the middle east and other parts of the world.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

No one is forced to walk down the street either. So it's OK for you to be stopped and groped by a cop willy nilly?

No one is forced to go to the mall either. I wonder if we should put these porno-scanners in malls and force people to go through them before they can shop for the Christmas season?

You both are being silly. While I agree that the security is probably worthless in the long run at the airports as it now stands, no one is highjacking a shopping mall and ramming it into a building.

Yes, we're being silly in an attempt to show how "silly" these porno-scanners are in airports, by showing how silly they'd be anywhere else. But a terrorist could strap a bomb on and enter a mall and blow themselves up. Especially now with the Christmas shopping season how many people would die in such an attack? I don't see how one can defend porno-scanners in an airport but not in a shopping mall.