The Age of Corporate Treason

[Intense]

Some of you on this forum might have to choose between your two passions - patriotism and capitalism - after reading this excellent article by Ralph Nader.

Why are big, global U.S. corporations so unpatriotic? After all, they were created in the U.S.A., rose to immense profit because of the toil of American workers, are bailed out by American taxpayers whenever they’re in trouble, and are safeguarded abroad by the U.S. military.

Yet these corporate goliaths work their tax lawyers overtime to escape U.S. taxes. Many pay less than you do in federal income taxes. Imagine corporations, like General Electric, have not paid federal income taxes on U.S. profits for years.

The Age of Corporate Treason » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

Never sure or could understand why the left brings up GE to make a point?

Kinda funny. Microsoft, Google, anything Sorros related, Anything Starbucks, Ben and Jerry's are privileged. Didn't you know that?

 

[The Rabbi]

Confirmation bias? WTF is that, some kind of Fox News way of saying who ya gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?

And in terms of greed, American execs are in a class of their own.

No, it's actually a real term that educated people use.
More unsubstantiated bullshit from you. Bitter over getting fired?

I'm sure they appreciate you carrying their water dupe. Keep it up and someday they might even have a job for you.

I'm self employed, thanks. But hey go get yourself a little more training and a new attitude and I'm sure someone will hire you.

 

[g5000]

Corporations are not "patriotic". People are patriotic. Corporations are vehicles for making money for their owners. Nothing more than that.
And it is the Left that seeks to bail out failures of corporations. The conservative free traders want them to go through bankruptcy.

I had no idea George Bush and Hank Paulson were Lefties!

 

[The Rabbi]

Corporations are not "patriotic". People are patriotic. Corporations are vehicles for making money for their owners. Nothing more than that.
And it is the Left that seeks to bail out failures of corporations. The conservative free traders want them to go through bankruptcy.

I had no idea George Bush and Hank Paulson were Lefties!

Is that because you're a low information voter?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The individuals at the top want to get their huge bonuses before either the shit hits the fan or they're ousted. I've seen it personally many times.

Confirmation bias.
The fact that you've "seen it many times" doesn't mean you can generalize to all of American business. I guess those Germans, French, and Japanese executives aren't greedy.

Confirmation bias? WTF is that, some kind of Fox News way of saying who ya gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?

And in terms of greed, American execs are in a class of their own.

How do you objectively measure greed?

 

[JoeNormal]

Confirmation bias.
The fact that you've "seen it many times" doesn't mean you can generalize to all of American business. I guess those Germans, French, and Japanese executives aren't greedy.

Confirmation bias? WTF is that, some kind of Fox News way of saying who ya gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?

And in terms of greed, American execs are in a class of their own.

How do you objectively measure greed?

One objective measurement is wealth disparity. In this metric, the U.S. Is number one among developed nations and is on a par with the third world.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Confirmation bias? WTF is that, some kind of Fox News way of saying who ya gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?

And in terms of greed, American execs are in a class of their own.

How do you objectively measure greed?

One objective measurement is wealth disparity. In this metric, the U.S. Is number one among developed nations and is on a par with the third world.

Wealth disparity is not a measure of greed. If Bob has more money than Jeff does it then follow that Bob is greedier than Jeff?

 

[JoeNormal]

How do you objectively measure greed?

One objective measurement is wealth disparity. In this metric, the U.S. Is number one among developed nations and is on a par with the third world.

Wealth disparity is not a measure of greed. If Bob has more money than Jeff does it then follow that Bob is greedier than Jeff?

You're trying to apply a societal metric to two individuals. Of course it's not valid.

 

[The Rabbi]

One objective measurement is wealth disparity. In this metric, the U.S. Is number one among developed nations and is on a par with the third world.

Wealth disparity is not a measure of greed. If Bob has more money than Jeff does it then follow that Bob is greedier than Jeff?

You're trying to apply a societal metric to two individuals. Of course it's not valid.

Since greed is an individual trait it would seem that your suggestion for measuring it isn't really very good.

And since you really cannot come up with a definition of "greed" I'd say your opinion is pretty much nothing more than bitter ravings against people who are more successful than you.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Wealth disparity is not a measure of greed. If Bob has more money than Jeff does it then follow that Bob is greedier than Jeff?

You're trying to apply a societal metric to two individuals. Of course it's not valid.

Since greed is an individual trait it would seem that your suggestion for measuring it isn't really very good.

And since you really cannot come up with a definition of "greed" I'd say your opinion is pretty much nothing more than bitter ravings against people who are more successful than you.

Greed is defined by socialists as "anyone or anything who prospers and succeeds beyond the means of others." Attempting to measure greed is impossible.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

One objective measurement is wealth disparity. In this metric, the U.S. Is number one among developed nations and is on a par with the third world.

Wealth disparity is not a measure of greed. If Bob has more money than Jeff does it then follow that Bob is greedier than Jeff?

You're trying to apply a societal metric to two individuals. Of course it's not valid.

You're trying to apply an objective measurement to a subjective belief that you have. It's not valid because you're mistaking your own bias for empiricism.

 

[JoeNormal]

Wealth disparity is not a measure of greed. If Bob has more money than Jeff does it then follow that Bob is greedier than Jeff?

You're trying to apply a societal metric to two individuals. Of course it's not valid.

Since greed is an individual trait it would seem that your suggestion for measuring it isn't really very good.

And since you really cannot come up with a definition of "greed" I'd say your opinion is pretty much nothing more than bitter ravings against people who are more successful than you.

Typical right wing response. Define tall, or great, or any other subjective term. I'll bet you can't do it without a relative statistical context - if at all.

I write heuristics as part of my job and have a pretty good idea of the complexity of taking a limited amount of data and generating a decision from it using a limited amount of processing. It's much like trying to converse with dumb shits like you.

 

[JoeNormal]

Wealth disparity is not a measure of greed. If Bob has more money than Jeff does it then follow that Bob is greedier than Jeff?

You're trying to apply a societal metric to two individuals. Of course it's not valid.

You're trying to apply an objective measurement to a subjective belief that you have. It's not valid because you're mistaking your own bias for empiricism.

Agreed that greed is subjective but its effects are measurable as I suggested before.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

You're trying to apply a societal metric to two individuals. Of course it's not valid.

You're trying to apply an objective measurement to a subjective belief that you have. It's not valid because you're mistaking your own bias for empiricism.

Agreed that greed is subjective but its effects are measurable as I suggested before.

Its effects can't be measurable if you can't even objectively prove that it exists. That doesn't even make sense.

 

[MikeK]

How do you objectively measure greed?

That is a good question.

Greed is wanting more for the sake of having more even when more is not needed. It is the state of never being satisfied. It is manifest gluttony, which is a psychological disorder.

The laissez-faire capitalist economic system is conducive to financial gluttony. It has imparted to a significant percentage of the collective American psyche what may be called a lustful aspiration to excessive wealth, as was plainly manifest in the almost hysterical response to the recent $550million lottery "powerball." Millions of Americans stood on extremely long lines to buy tickets for the obscure chance at becoming super-rich -- an effort which can only be motivated by impulsive greed. Those same people would not stand on such long lines to by a $1million ticket, or a $5million, or a $10million ticket. But the remotest potential to acquire what is flagrantly excessive wealth took hold of them.

Because I believe the effect of laissez-faire capitalism has evolved as a malignancy in the American culture I've become an advocate for the confiscation of all personal assets in excess of twenty million dollars. The reason I've settled on the $20million limit to personal wealth is that sum will enable one to buy one or two fine homes and furnish them well. It will enable one to buy one or two fine cars. It will pay for three or four campus university educations and the best health insurance policy available. In addition to all that it will it will enable one, through safe investment, to lead a life of idle, comfortable leisure.

Anyone who could not be satisfied with all that is pathologically greedy and is in need of psychological re-orientation.

 

[AmazonTania]

How do you objectively measure greed?

That is a good question.

Greed is wanting more for the sake of having more even when more is not needed. It is the state of never being satisfied. It is manifest gluttony, which is a psychological disorder.

That defines everyone.

The laissez-faire capitalist economic system is conducive to financial gluttony. It has imparted to a significant percentage of the collective American psyche what may be called a lustful aspiration to excessive wealth, as was plainly manifest in the almost hysterical response to the recent $550million lottery "powerball." Millions of Americans stood on extremely long lines to buy tickets for the obscure chance at becoming super-rich -- an effort which can only be motivated by impulsive greed. Those same people would not stand on such long lines to by a $1million ticket, or a $5million, or a $10million ticket. But the remotest potential to acquire what is excessive wealth took hold of them.

Yes, they would. Free money is free money. You must not get out much, because there are people who have not only stood in line but camped outside for much less.

Because I believe the effect of laissez-faire capitalism has evolved as a malignancy in the American culture I've become an advocate for the confiscation of all personal assets in excess of twenty million dollars. The reason I've settled on the $20million figure is that sum will enable one to buy one or two fine homes and furnish them well. It will enable one to buy one or two fine cars. It will pay for three or four campus university educations and the best health insurance policy available. In addition to all that it will it will enable one, through safe investment, to lead a life of idle, comfortable leisure.

Or it will enable you to buy nothing. As soon as one reaches said threshold, they can simply retire. Leaving a legacy for no one to continue and sharing their innovations with very few.

Wealth creates a better environment for all. The poverty you are suggesting creates a worse environment .

Anyone who could not be satisfied with all that is pathologically greedy and is in need of psychological re-orientation.

You are trying to rationalize theft. Maybe it is you who needs the psychological re-evaluation.

 

[The Rabbi]

You're trying to apply a societal metric to two individuals. Of course it's not valid.

You're trying to apply an objective measurement to a subjective belief that you have. It's not valid because you're mistaking your own bias for empiricism.

Agreed that greed is subjective but its effects are measurable as I suggested before.

If you can't even define it then you cannot speak about effect.
It is hard to believe that you could use a word like "heuristics" without resorting to an online dictionary and spell check.
Frankly, sir. You are dumb as a rock.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

How do you objectively measure greed?

That is a good question.

Greed is wanting more for the sake of having more even when more is not needed. It is the state of never being satisfied. It is manifest gluttony, which is a psychological disorder.

The laissez-faire capitalist economic system is conducive to financial gluttony. It has imparted to a significant percentage of the collective American psyche what may be called a lustful aspiration to excessive wealth, as was plainly manifest in the almost hysterical response to the recent $550million lottery "powerball." Millions of Americans stood on extremely long lines to buy tickets for the obscure chance at becoming super-rich -- an effort which can only be motivated by impulsive greed. Those same people would not stand on such long lines to by a $1million ticket, or a $5million, or a $10million ticket. But the remotest potential to acquire what is flagrantly excessive wealth took hold of them.

Because I believe the effect of laissez-faire capitalism has evolved as a malignancy in the American culture I've become an advocate for the confiscation of all personal assets in excess of twenty million dollars. The reason I've settled on the $20million limit to personal wealth is that sum will enable one to buy one or two fine homes and furnish them well. It will enable one to buy one or two fine cars. It will pay for three or four campus university educations and the best health insurance policy available. In addition to all that it will it will enable one, through safe investment, to lead a life of idle, comfortable leisure.

Anyone who could not be satisfied with all that is pathologically greedy and is in need of psychological re-orientation.

It's a good question, to which you did not provide an answer. You merely explained what you think of as greed, and what you would do about it. You gave no objective measurement, however.

 

[bripat9643]

One objective measurement is wealth disparity. In this metric, the U.S. Is number one among developed nations and is on a par with the third world.

Wealth disparity is not a measure of greed. If Bob has more money than Jeff does it then follow that Bob is greedier than Jeff?

You're trying to apply a societal metric to two individuals. Of course it's not valid.

"Greed" isn't a trait exhibited by abstract concepts like society. It only makes sense, if at all, when it's applied individuals. The reality is that greed can't be defined in any unambiguous manner. Every definition I've ever seen depends on the subjective judgement of individuals. "Greed" is therefore not a term of science or logic. It's purely a term of propaganda.

 

[MikeK]

It's a good question, to which you did not provide an answer. You merely explained what you think of as greed, and what you would do about it. You gave no objective measurement, however.

If my response didn't answer your question then I simply don't know what you mean by an "objective measurement" of what essentially is a pathological frame of mind. Please explain how one goes about objectively measuring that. Or do you not believe greed is an abnormal state of mind (in accordance with characteristics of normative humanism)?

What I explained is not what I think of as greed. I explained what greed is. If you require further verification you will find it in any dictionary -- or in the DSM-IV-TR under common behavioral disorders. When you do, I'll be interested in knowing your thoughts on my proposed (admittedly radical) approach to controlling its effect on the American culture, which has been profoundly corrupted.

To be more concise, my proposal seeks to excise the very objective of the greed impulse by imposing a barrier to it.